App Design Help - Simple Vs Powerful (1 Viewer)

[Joe Bryant]

Question for you folks.

Apps and Tools often have to make some decisions. Do they want to be super powerful (think Microsoft Excel) or do they want to focus more on ease of use (Google Sheets). In a perfect world, of course, you have both. But that's kind of rare.

The question I have is do you know of apps or tools out there where they have 1 product that can handle both the power user and also the casual user? 

If so, how do they do it?

Or do you usually see companies split up the tools into two separate tools? 

Thoughts appreciated. 

 

[Gally]

I think it should be based on your target audience and cater to them.  I have never seen a product that does both. 

My experience with the power program is that is usually is too difficult to use for most situations because it tries to do too much.  My biggest example is SAP.  My company went to it for manufacturing and it just wasn't intuitive enough to use because it could do so many things.  It ended up making our process much less efficient and caused issues raising our costs across the board.  

 

[Joe Bryant]

As I think through it some, if it were 1 app for both casual and power users, it feels some sort of "gatekeeper" type roadblock at the very first of the journey would be needed.

Almost like the "Are you 21?" roadblock when you visit a website that involves alcohol. 

Effectively forcing the user to make a decision on which path they want to go down. 

 

[Joe Bryant]

I think it should be based on your target audience and cater to them.  I have never seen a product that does both. 

My experience with the power program is that is usually is too difficult to use for most situations because it tries to do too much.  My biggest example is SAP.  My company went to it for manufacturing and it just wasn't intuitive enough to use because it could do so many things.  It ended up making our process much less efficient and caused issues raising our costs across the board.  

Thanks Gally.

So in your opinion, is it often better to have two separate products?

One for the power user and one for the casual user?

 

[Gally]

Thanks Gally.

So in your opinion, is it often better to have two separate products?

One for the power user and one for the casual user?

Definitely.  In my example (SAP) it is really customizable but it has to be done (and purchased) from them and takes someone that really knows the product to do it the right way.  But those people doing the configuration don't understand my business and what we really needed.  My company put a ton of money into the "customization" of the system but it ended up missing a lot of things or having many more options that "we may need some day".  It ended up really making it difficult to use and then the users figured out shortcuts to fake the system to just get work done.  So many of the reports that were sold with the program were useless because of the dummy data entry just to get the thing to work.  

When you try and make something good for everyone you run the risk of  too many options that make the program difficult to use (for something like ERP systems).  We needed like 5% of the program and the other 95% made it inefficient to use.  

 

[AAABatteries]

I’d argue that Excel is actually a good example of an app that does both.  A monkey can use Excel for basic data entry/spreadsheet functionality.  But you can also do very powerful things with it.  That would be my target if I were building an app. I could see having profiles where it could hide features based on the users expertise.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Definitely.  In my example (SAP) it is really customizable but it has to be done (and purchased) from them and takes someone that really knows the product to do it the right way.  But those people doing the configuration don't understand my business and what we really needed.  My company put a ton of money into the "customization" of the system but it ended up missing a lot of things or having many more options that "we may need some day".  It ended up really making it difficult to use and then the users figured out shortcuts to fake the system to just get work done.  So many of the reports that were sold with the program were useless because of the dummy data entry just to get the thing to work.  

When you try and make something good for everyone you run the risk of  too many options that make the program difficult to use (for something like ERP systems).  We needed like 5% of the program and the other 95% made it inefficient to use.  

Thanks a ton. 

 

[Gally]

I’d argue that Excel is actually a good example of an app that does both.  A monkey can use Excel for basic data entry/spreadsheet functionality.  But you can also do very powerful things with it.  That would be my target if I were building and app. I could see having profiles where it could hide features based on the users expertise.

I would agree with this as well.  

 

[shades]

I’d argue that Excel is actually a good example of an app that does both.  A monkey can use Excel for basic data entry/spreadsheet functionality.  But you can also do very powerful things with it.  That would be my target if I were building an app. I could see having profiles where it could hide features based on the users expertise.

Yep.

Excel works right away out of the box for the most causal users doing most common things. Type in some numbers, it'll add them, and it's completely intuitive and makes perfect sense. Then, once the user starts to ramp up and think "Man, I wish I could do just a little more with this..." they find out Excel already has that function built in and can do it seamlessly. And that cycle continues, every time you think you've got it down but wish there was just one more thing... Excel can do it.

And there's no "gatekeeper" forcing you to decide whether to be a casual user or power user, which is great. You can grow with the program. You can start out casual and then turn into a power user as you go without having to start over. I have a spreadsheet at work that started off as the most simple thing you can imagine... it literally did nothing but add and subtract... and have been tweaking it step by step into a super-powerful, super-fast tool that my company relies on daily using some exotic functions, formats, and formulas. I've been slowly building it up over time to be able to do more and more, faster and faster. At the same time, it's stayed just as easy to use for the other people in my office--all casual users--who can open it up, re-type one cell, and get exactly the result they want out of it. They don't need to know how it works "under the hood", as far as they can see, it's the exact same simple add-and-subtract spreadsheet they've always used. But as soon as they come at me with a twist on the formula, like "I have a special case where I need to do all the counting in a slightly different way, how hard is it to do that?" I can say, "I built that in already, just scroll down a hundred rows and change one cell at the bottom and it'll do it automatically." They're constantly amazed at how much time it saves.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Thanks Folks. Any other examples besides Excel? Someone mentioned to me on twitter Trello does a good job with this. 

 

[AAABatteries]

A very simple, elegant app that is very powerful is a business intelligence tool I use - Tableau.  It's an app that let's you visualize data.  They have attempted to make using it very easy while still providing powerful features and capabilities.  No user likes to be overwhelmed with options when they just want to do something basic.  This app does a good job an trying to anticipate what a user wants to do and makes suggestions by default to make it easier for folks that need some help.

 

[eoMMan]

Maybe something like MyFitnessPal where you can get the free, relatively simple version or pay for the more advanced version with nutritional macros.

 

[BoltBacker]

I absolutely love todoist.

You would think that there would be dozens of apps that do something similar but none of the competition is as versatile and slick IMO. Whether it's as simple as sharing a shopping list or a "to do" list with your wife, or a more complicated collaborative project with clients and coworkers it's the best and easiest I have found. It constantly synchs but can still be useful even when part of the group goes temporarily offline. Some alternatives may be even more powerful but they require so much more effort to get everyone in the group up to speed with just using the app.

It also has the added benefits that the widget is great and the updates are subtle enough that you don't feel like you are constantly being forced to re-learn how to do things all for the sake of a new interface. Not a better interface, just a new one. Another big feature for me is how well it works either on mobile or desktop browsers. 

 

[eoMMan]

Is this about the Draft Dominator?

Personally, I always preferred the Excel VBD spreadsheets.  I don't want an app telling me exactly who I should take.

 

[Joe Bryant]

I absolutely love todoist.

You would think that there would be dozens of apps that do something similar but none of the competition is as versatile and slick IMO. Whether it's as simple as sharing a shopping list or a "to do" list with your wife, or a more complicated collaborative project with clients and coworkers it's the best and easiest I have found. It constantly synchs but can still be useful even when part of the group goes temporarily offline. Some alternatives may be even more powerful but they require so much more effort to get everyone in the group up to speed with just using the app.

It also has the added benefits that the widget is great and the updates are subtle enough that you don't feel like you are constantly being forced to re-learn how to do things all for the sake of a new interface. Not a better interface, just a new one. Another big feature for me is how well it works either on mobile or desktop browsers. 

Thanks @BoltBacker

I've used todoist just a little. I like Things and TickTick. But I know tons of people love Todoist.

How do they manage the power user vs casual user thing?

 

[BoltBacker]

Maybe something like MyFitnessPal where you can get the free, relatively simple version or pay for the more advanced version with nutritional macros.

That's a great one that has excellent functionality as a free app and offers so much more that the premium paid version is absolutely worth the cost for a lot of people. 

 

[MTskibum]

I am an app manager/software engineer and I manage 4 applications. One of the applications is an engineering software for drilling and is incredibly complicated. New users get a 5 day training course when they are hired at the company. We have tried to simplify it, but there is no way around the complexity.

I also manage software on the other side of the spectrum, I manage an app that creates sales orders in SAP and Oracle. Users often figure out this app with little to know training.

Often times, what you hope to achieve with the application determines how complex it needs to be, do you want to run hydraulics calculations on a 4 mile long horizontal well, if so then the app will be complicated.

Choose a technology suite that is easily scalable for both ease of use now, and can also add the more complex features later. Start simple and then if the customer keeps asking for new features, and if those new features make sense then add them in. And the customers are not always correct when it comes to software design. Often times they ask for features that they do not end up using. You always have to take their feedback with a grain of salt.

 

[BoltBacker]

Thanks @BoltBacker

I've used todoist just a little. I like Things and TickTick. But I know tons of people love Todoist.

How do they manage the power user vs casual user thing?

They have a barebones free version, but for more advanced users and larger groups they offer a premium version.

 

[MTskibum]

A very simple, elegant app that is very powerful is a business intelligence tool I use - Tableau.  It's an app that let's you visualize data.  They have attempted to make using it very easy while still providing powerful features and capabilities.  No user likes to be overwhelmed with options when they just want to do something basic.  This app does a good job an trying to anticipate what a user wants to do and makes suggestions by default to make it easier for folks that need some help.

Tableau is both easier to use and more powerful than many of their competitors. However they make up for it in price. We had to switch away from Tableau as our BI tool and we changed to a vastly inferior product, Power BI, because the cost savings were enormous.

 

[AAABatteries]

Tableau is both easier to use and more powerful than many of their competitors. However they make up for it in price. We had to switch away from Tableau as our BI tool and we changed to a vastly inferior product, Power BI, because the cost savings were enormous.

We are in the midst of doing the same.  Typically these prices are too complex to figure out though (IMO) due to discounts you get from Microsoft in their overall offering and also the cost to develop and operate become more.  It's easy to say Tableau at $2,000 isn't worth PBI at $100 but that way oversimplifies what is going on.  Especially if/when you try to scale to 1k, 10k, 100k users.

 

[Thorpe]

I am a software developer...

Easy to use and powerful are two completely different things, and completely unrelated.

Powerful is a function of the specifications.

Ease of use is a function of how well the developers did their job. Bad developers can make simple applications terrible to use (I've seen it - maybe it takes 10 clicks to do something that should be done with 2 clicks)

There is no reason to trade power for ease of use.  If the developer tells you otherwise, you need to find someone else. 

It is pretty simple to hide the complexity behind menus, like Office.  If you open an Office application, you basically just need to click "New Document" and you can start typing. But a power user can publish a book in Word or create insanely complicated Excel applications. 

 

[Joe Bryant]

Tuesday bump. Thanks for the help on this.

 

[Zasada]

I think the Garmin Connect app does things well.  For the most part.

Want to see your latest activity, steps, or calories?  All right there on the home screen.  

But then you can dive into each section more to get even more detailed stats/summary/history.  Even more detail available if you want to use the website.

You can also customize things to make the home page more relevant.  Or to make the stats more catered to your situation.

I got up and running with the app very quickly, but then spent hours sometimes flipping through all the different data screens and customizations.  That's key.  Get going fast with the basics, but have the opportunity to customize and dig if you desire.

 

[hagmania]

A very simple, elegant app that is very powerful is a business intelligence tool I use - Tableau.  It's an app that let's you visualize data.  They have attempted to make using it very easy while still providing powerful features and capabilities.  No user likes to be overwhelmed with options when they just want to do something basic.  This app does a good job an trying to anticipate what a user wants to do and makes suggestions by default to make it easier for folks that need some help.

Tableau is a bit more power. The casual answer I think is Power BI.

We've recently made the switch from Tableau to Power BI and I'm not enjoying the conversions.

 

[glvsav37]

As a few have mentioned, many apps have right out of the box uses but then allow you to extend their power but using features and integrating it int your workflow. 

A few that come to mind:

Evernote: Basic easy to use note taking app,  but it powers up when you start using hashtags, templates and automations. But many people don't get this deep into it. I know someone who sells a whole course on being an Evernote pro user.

As others mentioned: Apps like Trello and Asana are easy for creating basic workflows and to-do lists but there are tons of integration, scheduling and delegation tools that can extend its usefulness across whole teams 

Then you have things like Zappier and IFTTT that are simple and powerful at the same time. You can make simple recipes to do basic tasks or get really deep into complicated ones. 

As to you question on "How its done" its mainly simple. Ease of use and a very clean interface/ui for the general level work but built on an engine that can handle solving the major "problems" the target users have. Problems = Being organized, project management, saving time, etc. Whoever brought up excel is a pretty good example. Look at all the menus and pull downs that you probably never use.