Are the events of January 6, 9/11 and Bombing Pearl Harbor on relatively the same level with regard to how bad they are? (1 Viewer)

[djmich]

Follow a bit more now, but all you're doing with the bold is confirming a bias IMO.  For example, I don't consider Sinn Finn a "liberal" by the bastardized definition we have today.  Does he REALLY count?  That said, what do you do with those who voted "yes" through all three.  Where do you put them?  They only go in one place:
 

I hear you, but imo Sinn Finn is much more liberal (which i'd broadly say represents left as well) and I'd say a good bucket for purpose of this poll, than say cowboysfan8 is.  Thats less concerning to me than the fact that the denominator should not be polluted by people that voted NA or clearly voted wrong.

Based on that I count 66 people should be removed from the denominator (clearly not liberal).  In which case its 7/24 or 20% were at least on the fence if not equating the events.

 

[Prinefan]

I have voted both red and blue (and independent) at various times over the years so I consider myself mostly independent.  I do see the semantics of people comparing death statistics of the 3 incidents being considered.  Obviously those statistics are drastically different.  To me the insurrection should be considered similar in the affect it has had on the "psyche" of American democracy.  It's just as shocking (IMO) that thousands of Americans would attack other Americans trying to uphold the laws and rules laid down by our forefathers.  Absolutely on the same level.  The other two came from outside attacks.  The insurrection was by our own people.  

 

[Joe Bryant]

I think another thing is true that was mentioned earlier. Many people hear "comparable" as meaning "equal". 

Which goes back to thing earlier about the responsibility being on the speaker to be understood.

I heard a few people talking about comparing the events and I asked the question in what I thought was a more clear way in asking if they were on the relatively same level. 

 

[The Commish]

I hear you, but imo Sinn Finn is much more liberal (which i'd broadly say represents left as well) and I'd say a good bucket for purpose of this poll, than say cowboysfan8 is.  Thats less concerning to me than the fact that the denominator should not be polluted by people that voted NA or clearly voted wrong.

Based on that I count 66 people should be removed from the denominator (clearly not liberal).  In which case its 7/24 or 20% were at least on the fence if not equating the events.

I know...picking and choosing from the selections gets us nowhere.  What I DO find interesting is that of those that identify as "liberal", 32 said it doesn't rise to the same level.  Of those that identify as "conservative" 29 and those that identify as "independent" 52....that's without any picking and choosing.  And the majority of "absolutes" are in the "independent" category.  

This is all tough to explain in such a liberal echo chamber (No...these are NOT your words GB, but been asserted here hundreds of times).

 

[Joe Bryant]

I thought the poll results were helpful here.

There was buzz about some folks online and how it compared. HuffPost White House reporter raised a few eyebrows saying January 6 was 1000% worse than 9/11. https://www.newsweek.com/huffington-post-reporter-sparks-outrage-saying-capitol-riot-was-1000-times-worse-9-11-1594745

But clearly that's not the prevailing opinion of the forum here. 

 

[djmich]

I know...picking and choosing from the selections gets us nowhere.  What I DO find interesting is that of those that identify as "liberal", 32 said it doesn't rise to the same level.  Of those that identify as "conservative" 29 and those that identify as "independent" 52....that's without any picking and choosing.  And the majority of "absolutes" are in the "independent" category.  

This is all tough to explain in such a liberal echo chamber (No...these are NOT your words GB, but been asserted here hundreds of times).

Yah one of the side observations from the poll is that the respondents overall seem to be very evenly divided amongst political categories. 

This place tends to be an echo chamber, but its generally because most posters can only hear what they want to hear and they can't hear over their own shouting (and because a small population of posters literally continually echo the same points) 

 

[squistion]

I thought the poll results were helpful here.

There was buzz about some folks online and how it compared. HuffPost White House reporter raised a few eyebrows saying January 6 was 1000% worse than 9/11. https://www.newsweek.com/huffington-post-reporter-sparks-outrage-saying-capitol-riot-was-1000-times-worse-9-11-1594745

But clearly that's not the prevailing opinion of the forum here. 

And that statement by one HuffPo reporter didn't represent the prevailing opinion of most Democrats, progressives or liberals either IMO.

 

[The Commish]

Yah one of the side observations from the poll is that the respondents overall seem to be very evenly divided amongst political categories. 

This place tends to be an echo chamber, but its generally because most posters can only hear what they want to hear and they can't hear over their own shouting (and because a small population of posters literally continually echo the same points) 

Well described GB

To me its always been a place where what you put in, you get out. Experience is what you make it. If you think its an echo chamber its likely because of you and how you choose to use this place.  Cant help hut chuckle at the people who claim that its about the board more than themselves. 

 

[RavenFan]

And that statement by one HuffPo reporter didn't represent the prevailing opinion of most Democrats, progressives or liberals either IMO.

Yea, both sides do a bad job of taking a single voice and magnifying it like it represents the other side in entirety. 

 

[Joe Bryant]

Yea, both sides do a bad job of taking a single voice and magnifying it like it represents the other side in entirety. 

Agreed. That's exactly why I thought it would be interesting / helpful to do an actual poll.

Certainly, the liberals or conservatives here don't speak for all liberals and conservatives everywhere, but it's easier to make some guesses about larger audiences when you have data on a small group like we have here. 

I still don't understand how that was seen as "disingenuous" but

 

[Sinn Fein]

I thought the poll results were helpful here.

There was buzz about some folks online and how it compared. HuffPost White House reporter raised a few eyebrows saying January 6 was 1000% worse than 9/11. https://www.newsweek.com/huffington-post-reporter-sparks-outrage-saying-capitol-riot-was-1000-times-worse-9-11-1594745

But clearly that's not the prevailing opinion of the forum here. 

Did you really pull a tweet from May 2021 to make this point?

 

[Joe Bryant]

lol at @2Squirrels1Nut voting himself in all 3 categories at absolutely  same level.    legit saying he has zero credibility.    good stuff.   that's actually impressive.   notebook updated.

I think that may have been because I screwed up the questions to start and didn't have a "not applicable" option for each one. I thought the forum software would allow people to just vote in one of the questions. My bad. 

 

[Stealthycat]

The damage from trained MARXISTS BLM riots were 1000 times higher but Antifa and BLM get a pass for their violence and rioting. They seem to be the new brown shirts. Clear to me that it was a setup provoked by the FBI just like the supposed failed Whitmer kidnapping. We should be going after known communists and Pedro island visitors in Congress and NGOs like Bill Gates. This is all theatre and distraction.

100% accurate, true and I agree

 

[WDIK2]

I'm seeing ~88% of the applicable votes as being for "Not on the same level" and "Absolutely not on the same level."  Sounds about right.  I answered the poll as it was asked and believe most others did also. 

 

[jhib]

On 1/7/2022 at 2:10 PM, jhib said:
Agreed.  The biggest reason people know the date is that it's being referred to as January 6th.  And even then, I would venture a guess that if you took a random sampling of Americans, way, way more people would recognize 9/11 than 1/6.

Sticking with just what Harris said and not considering the importance of the event, I still don't think 1/6 is on the same page as 9/11 in our collective memory.

(Pearl Harbor is a tougher comparison because of the age and the fact that most people refer to it as "Pearl Harbor.")
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Fair point and to go with Sinn's awesome defense.  Based on how much you know about the people in this country, what % do you think would get Dec 7th correct when it came to Pearl Harbor?   I bet 9/11 would be 99%----for a lot of reasons, and I bet Pearl Harbor would be significantly lower, because of the age mostly.  I bet you dollars to donuts ion 1970 people damn knew the date and exactly where they were when Neil touched down on the moon. 

People call Pearl Harbor day Pearl Harbor day.

But yea

Referring to the event itself (and not the date), I think most people just use the shorthand 'Pearl Harbor.'  And any % answer to your question would only be a shot in the dark guess based on no specific information, but I would say it'd depend on the wording of the question.  "On what date did the bombing of Pearl Harbor occur?"  Very small percentage.  "What historic event happened on December 7th, 1941?" Much higher percentage, but not close to what it would be for 9/11, despite the fact that they are comparable events.  The age aspect is obviously huge, but the fact that we refer to one event by its location and the other by its date obviously makes the date itself more memorable for the latter.

Comparing 9/11 to 1/6, my point is that I don't think 1/6 is as recognizable a date to the average American (as opposed to the average poster here or the average person who watches cable news) because it wasn't/isn't as personally threatening, and not as omnipresent a topic of everyday life.  Speaking personally, while I understand and respect the importance of the event to the nation, I don't remember where I was when it was happening and I certainly wouldn't remember the date if everybody just called it the "Attack on the Capitol" or something like that.  When I was first hearing about it and watching footage, I wasn't feeling threatened or wondering where members of my family were.  If my daughter were young and in preschool like she was on 9/11, my wife wouldn't have rushed to go pick her up like she did that day.  

As others have suggested, there are a lot of relatively recent events that have been potentially as memorable as 1/6.  The main thing that makes the 1/6 date itself more memorable is that the others have easy one- or two-word descriptors to call them other than the date.