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Are the Jets going to get in serious trouble? (1 Viewer)

GroveDiesel

Footballguy
Anyone that saw Dustin Keller after he landed on his head could tell the guy was knocked silly. He couldn't even stand on his own. He was wobbling all over the place. His teammates had to help him get to the sideline and Buffalo medical staff even came out onto the field to try to help when it first happened. He was diagnosed with a head injury and everyone assumed he'd be out the rest of the game with the new concussion rules.

Yet, lo and behold, he was back on the field playing in the second half after supposedly passing the medical tests for concussions by both the team doctor and independent neurologist.

I'm not sure what the exact criteria for passing some of the tests is, but it seems to me that if you can't name the months of the year in order and you're sitting there trying to shake the "cobwebs" out, that you probably have a concussion and shouldn't be going back into the game and certainly shouldn't be passing the tests.

 
It's possible to be knocked loopy without having a concussion.

I've been knocked out, came to, had no clue what was going on and after about 10 minutes was back to "normal". No headaches, memory problem, etc :shrug:

 
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You see boxers get knocked out all the time, go down for the 10 count, stand up wobbling all over, then be 100% fine as their opponent's hand is lifted in victory center ring.

 
It's possible to be knocked loopy without having a concussion.

I've been knocked out, came to, had no clue what was going on and after about 10 minutes was back to "normal". No headaches, memory problem, etc :shrug:
I seriously doubt that any modern medical study or unbiased neurologist would agree with that statement.
 
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/11/07/week-nine-monday-10-pack-2/

9. Jets inject much-needed transparency into concussion diagnosis.

Early in Sunday’s game between the Jets and Bills, New York tight end Dustin Keller exited with what appeared to be a concussion. Labeled questionable with a head injury, Keller surprisingly returned to the game after halftime.

In the hopes of getting a better understanding of the manner in which the Jets handled the delicate and, for many fans, confusing process of determining whether or not a player has suffered a concussion, PFT sent a series of questions to the Jets. To their credit, the Jets provided substantive answers to every one.

Each question and answer appears below.

1. Who examined Keller and what is the person’s title?

Dr. Damion Martins, team internist, sports medicine specialist trained in concussion evaluation. The results of the testing, along with additional player evaluation, were all reviewed and cleared by the head team physician, Dr Kenneth Montgomery.

2. What tests were imposed?

The NFL League sideline evaluation form was utilized — passed. Balance testing (BESS Testing) — passed, exercise stress test — passed. Dustin returned only after all tests passed as good or better than baseline testing, and symptom free.

3. Where did the evaluation occur?

The evaluation occurred in the locker room to assure a quiet and distraction-free environment.

4. When was the decision made that he would return?

Once it was confirmed that the player passed all tests and felt absolutely normal. If he was not perfect, he would not have returned. We are very conservative and the players we have held out so far this year were Donald Strickland, Garrett McIntyre, and Matthias Berning.

5. Was there any suspicion that he’d suffered a concussion?

He felt “dizzy” immediately after the play but felt fine by the time he reached the sideline. He denied symptoms on sideline evaluation and passed a simple sideline questionnaire on the bench. Out of respect for the injury, we took him to the locker room to perform a thorough evaluation to be sure. We were concerned enough to perform the testing, but all signs and tests suggest that he did not have a concussion.

6. The was questionable to return with a “head” injury — what was the specific injury to his head?

He hit his head and was dizzy for several seconds. That is why we listed it as his head. He was questionable only during the time he was being evaluated. His symptoms cleared immediately. It happens to several players in every NFL game.

7. Was any testing conducted at halftime? If so, by whom and what were they?

The extensive testing above occurred before half time. He participated in team meetings at halftime with his teammates. We checked on him several times after each offensive series and he remained symptom free.

8. Were further tests conducted after the game?

We evaluated him after the game and he remained symptom free. We will continue to check on him as the week progresses.

This is precisely the kind of transparency that is needed, if fans and the media are going to properly understand the manner in which teams decide whether a player has suffered a concussion. The fact that the release of this information is not required by the league’s injury-reporting rules makes the team’s decision to share the data even more admirable.
 
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/11/07/week-nine-monday-10-pack-2/

9. Jets inject much-needed transparency into concussion diagnosis.Early in Sunday’s game between the Jets and Bills, New York tight end Dustin Keller exited with what appeared to be a concussion. Labeled questionable with a head injury, Keller surprisingly returned to the game after halftime.In the hopes of getting a better understanding of the manner in which the Jets handled the delicate and, for many fans, confusing process of determining whether or not a player has suffered a concussion, PFT sent a series of questions to the Jets. To their credit, the Jets provided substantive answers to every one.Each question and answer appears below.1. Who examined Keller and what is the person’s title?Dr. Damion Martins, team internist, sports medicine specialist trained in concussion evaluation. The results of the testing, along with additional player evaluation, were all reviewed and cleared by the head team physician, Dr Kenneth Montgomery.2. What tests were imposed?The NFL League sideline evaluation form was utilized — passed. Balance testing (BESS Testing) — passed, exercise stress test — passed. Dustin returned only after all tests passed as good or better than baseline testing, and symptom free.3. Where did the evaluation occur?The evaluation occurred in the locker room to assure a quiet and distraction-free environment.4. When was the decision made that he would return?Once it was confirmed that the player passed all tests and felt absolutely normal. If he was not perfect, he would not have returned. We are very conservative and the players we have held out so far this year were Donald Strickland, Garrett McIntyre, and Matthias Berning.5. Was there any suspicion that he’d suffered a concussion?He felt “dizzy” immediately after the play but felt fine by the time he reached the sideline. He denied symptoms on sideline evaluation and passed a simple sideline questionnaire on the bench. Out of respect for the injury, we took him to the locker room to perform a thorough evaluation to be sure. We were concerned enough to perform the testing, but all signs and tests suggest that he did not have a concussion.6. The was questionable to return with a “head” injury — what was the specific injury to his head?He hit his head and was dizzy for several seconds. That is why we listed it as his head. He was questionable only during the time he was being evaluated. His symptoms cleared immediately. It happens to several players in every NFL game.7. Was any testing conducted at halftime? If so, by whom and what were they?The extensive testing above occurred before half time. He participated in team meetings at halftime with his teammates. We checked on him several times after each offensive series and he remained symptom free.8. Were further tests conducted after the game?We evaluated him after the game and he remained symptom free. We will continue to check on him as the week progresses.This is precisely the kind of transparency that is needed, if fans and the media are going to properly understand the manner in which teams decide whether a player has suffered a concussion. The fact that the release of this information is not required by the league’s injury-reporting rules makes the team’s decision to share the data even more admirable.
And yet, the video CLEARLY shows Keller out of it and unable to name the months of the year. Pretty easy for the Jets to lie about him "passing" the tests.I had initially thought that Keller had to pass a test given by a neutral neurologist, but I believe that's only the case later in the week once they've been determined to have already suffered a concussion. So all we have are a bunch of Jets employees covering for themselves. Maybe he really did pass all the tests, but again, this seems unlikely given the multiple videos as evidence against that.
 
i think its the players responsibilty there to be like hey. im f'd up this could be dangerous
Uh, no...
you dont think its their responsibility after passing all required tests and examinations to speak their mind? you stupid or wha
You can't honestly believe this. What kind of doctor are you!??!
GynacologistSo you are saying after passing all required tests by the NFL. if the player passes them he should be suitable to play. So your saying if the player himself says i am in no shape to play - that he should keep his mouth shut? nice argument
 
And yet, the video CLEARLY shows Keller out of it and unable to name the months of the year. Pretty easy for the Jets to lie about him "passing" the tests.I had initially thought that Keller had to pass a test given by a neutral neurologist, but I believe that's only the case later in the week once they've been determined to have already suffered a concussion. So all we have are a bunch of Jets employees covering for themselves. Maybe he really did pass all the tests, but again, this seems unlikely given the multiple videos as evidence against that.
A doctor gave him multiple tests and he passed all of them. I'm not sure what more you want.
 
i think its the players responsibilty there to be like hey. im f'd up this could be dangerous
Uh, no...
you dont think its their responsibility after passing all required tests and examinations to speak their mind? you stupid or wha
You can't honestly believe this. What kind of doctor are you!??!
GynacologistSo you are saying after passing all required tests by the NFL. if the player passes them he should be suitable to play. So your saying if the player himself says i am in no shape to play - that he should keep his mouth shut? nice argument
Why are you calling people stupid? Not excellent at all. Players want to play; they lie all the time about severity of an injury to get back in the game. Your original statement didn't say anything about passing all the required tests first - It just said it's the player's responsibility, which I disagree with. I don't think a player with a head injury can be trusted to display sound judgement. If they say they're not fit to go back in, that's fine, but if they're chomping at the bit to get back on the field that doesn't mean they didn't suffer an injury.

 
Anyone that saw Dustin Keller after he landed on his head could tell the guy was knocked silly. He couldn't even stand on his own. He was wobbling all over the place. His teammates had to help him get to the sideline and Buffalo medical staff even came out onto the field to try to help when it first happened. He was diagnosed with a head injury and everyone assumed he'd be out the rest of the game with the new concussion rules.

Yet, lo and behold, he was back on the field playing in the second half after supposedly passing the medical tests for concussions by both the team doctor and independent neurologist.

I'm not sure what the exact criteria for passing some of the tests is, but it seems to me that if you can't name the months of the year in order and you're sitting there trying to shake the "cobwebs" out, that you probably have a concussion and shouldn't be going back into the game and certainly shouldn't be passing the tests.

Keller had himself starting in his FF lineup and needed the points because he was going against a top team in his division.
 
And yet, the video CLEARLY shows Keller out of it and unable to name the months of the year. Pretty easy for the Jets to lie about him "passing" the tests.I had initially thought that Keller had to pass a test given by a neutral neurologist, but I believe that's only the case later in the week once they've been determined to have already suffered a concussion. So all we have are a bunch of Jets employees covering for themselves. Maybe he really did pass all the tests, but again, this seems unlikely given the multiple videos as evidence against that.
A doctor gave him multiple tests and he passed all of them. I'm not sure what more you want.
The doctor should have got buzzed down for a booth review of the test footage.
 
I don't really see the point in having a team doctor administer the test if the previous problem was that team doctors were releasing players that should have been sat out. Does anyone really believe the doctors were incapable of applying basic standards prior to the rule changes and that the introduction of an official NFL checklist was desperately needed for them to assess a concussion?

Ultimately, they are still under the same pressures to put the players back in (or in the case of Hines Ward let him stay on the sidelines). As long as concussions are diagnosed by the teams the results will reflect what is in the best interest of the team.

 
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I don't really see the point in having a team doctor administer the test if the previous problem was that team doctors were releasing players that should have been sat out. Does anyone really believe the doctors were incapable of applying basic standards prior to the rule changes and that the introduction of an official NFL checklist was desperately needed for them to assess a concussion? Ultimately, they are still under the same pressures to put the players back in (or in the case of Hines Ward let him stay on the sidelines). As long as concussions are diagnosed by the teams the results will reflect what is in the best interest of the team.
All parties have the same pressure to get one of their best players back in the game. We either trust the management, players and doctors to do what's in their best interest (long term) and do their jobs or the NFL implements a firm rule against putting a player back in.
 
i think its the players responsibilty there to be like hey. im f'd up this could be dangerous
Uh, no...
you dont think its their responsibility after passing all required tests and examinations to speak their mind? you stupid or wha
You can't honestly believe this. What kind of doctor are you!??!
GynacologistSo you are saying after passing all required tests by the NFL. if the player passes them he should be suitable to play. So your saying if the player himself says i am in no shape to play - that he should keep his mouth shut? nice argument
Didn't Cutler take a heap of #### on this board for speaking his mind about his injury?
 
What if he's just dumb and doesnt know the months? Sounds like biased testing to me. These are football players. They dont need to concern themselves with things like the months of the year and math and reading.
 

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