Are you in a league with that guy? (1 Viewer)

[davearm]

Sometimes I'd rather get a lowball offer than another message saying "what do you want for player X?" What do I WANT? I want two 1st round picks and Adrian Peterson, what is your counter?

I send out "what do you want for player X" offers quite often, but provide a framework and rationale. "I see you're dealing with some RB injuries... would you send me Andre Johnson for a WR and a RB?"It's not ideal for me to make my player valuations transparent, especially when most of the time I've got clusters of players that are interchageable. So I ask him to look over my roster and tell me the RB and the WR he likes. Better than me guessing/assuming.I see nothing wrong with this approach.

Yeah, I have done it too on occasion and while it depends on the other owner, it can work if you approach it right. I use the tact of saying, "Would you at all be interested in moving Player X? If so, I can give you my first round pick, plus a player like Y or Z." I have yet to have anyone take offense at this (although I can't be entirely sure since some never responded to my query).

I can't say that I like this tactic either. In my mind it's a way for someone to get someone else to make the first offer. If you want a player of mine, then make an offer, and in my case make your best offer because I'm not the dickering kind. If you have a player on your team that I covet, then I'll make a good offer. That's the way it ought to be. Some people can't stand to make the initial offer. I think this could cripple your ability to make trades.I can see opening dialogue, but in most cases it's one owner trying to get another owner to send him some offers.

I'm not so much fishing for offers but inviting dialogue.I don't yet know if the guy I'm interested in is even available, and I also don't have any clue how the other guy views the guys on my roster.Why would I open by offering him, say, Jahvid Best and Donald Driver when I've also got Knowshon Moreno, Shonn Greene, Hines Ward, and Santonio Holmes on my roster, and I have no idea how he would stack those guys up? If he just so happens to be bearish on Best and Driver, then he might get offended and blow me off, when in reality I would have been happy to mix and match. Maybe he'd do the deal for Moreno and Ward, but he assumes from my perceived crappy offer that those guys aren't available and suddenly the deal's dead in the water.Leave it open-ended and let him suggest some names, and that problem's solved.

 

[bucsbaby]

Another version of "that guy" is the guy who drafts a big name player in the first couple of rounds, the player underperforms, and "that guy" refuses to acknowledge any drop in value as the season progresses, still wanting top dollar in trade and will even ride the underperforming big name player(s) into the sunset of a losing season.

 

[davearm]

Another version of "that guy" is the guy who drafts a big name player in the first couple of rounds, the player underperforms, and "that guy" refuses to acknowledge any drop in value as the season progresses, still wanting top dollar in trade and will even ride the underperforming big name player(s) into the sunset of a losing season.

Seems to me that if you're out there trying to trade for this underperforming big name player, then obviously you both think he's due for a rebound.

 

[coolnerd]

Sometimes I'd rather get a lowball offer than another message saying "what do you want for player X?" What do I WANT? I want two 1st round picks and Adrian Peterson, what is your counter?

I often respond to this with what I call "you knocked on my door" price...especially if it is a player I have don't have much interest in trading. My logic is that if someobody knocked on my door and said I want to buy your house, I would not take fair market value, but would need a great premium to move. BTW, every once in awhile this does work and nets me more than I expected and/or something well above general market value. I will say for the guy, sometimes he hits a guy or two that I really want to trade and have not yet advertised and so he will have a better chance at a fair market deal.

don't really agree with this. if you're confident you have better then a coinflip chance to win the trade you should take it.

More times that not or my 100,000 house 105,000 is not enough for me to have that confidence. I am going to answer with a clear, I am confident amount say 125,000 on that amount. The flaw is asking me "what will it take?" If a team puts together a good offer @ 112,000 (even a well constructed 105,000 if it adresses other needs strongly) that may look better to me than a broad question especially when I am not considering trading the asset. BTW, this is for core, true stud like players. Players at the lower levels are more worth slight upgrades. I am often hoping to upgrade (hate that term)just a little.

 

[mlball77]

I think bashing the player he is aggressively trying to trade for guy can get annoying at times. In trade talks, he says to you something like, Player X is coming off of an injury, so he isnt worth too much… so my package is fair. -Or- Player Y has only had a couple big games. Hes totally unproven, so my offer should be more than enough. While this persons points may or may not be valid, it gets old when they hound me for a guy and then start going on about how bad the player actually is. If this player is so flawed, you probably wouldnt be after him so fiercely.

 

[mlball77]

I was previously in a league with Outlandish Player Comparisons guy. He was fun on this front and actually a very good owner all in all. -If he had an emerging, young player, then he would totally go bonkers for this player and compare him to a current or all-time great… and such comparisons were typically not based in reality.

Some of his most memorable outlandish comparisons:

Quentin Griffin , after a couple of big preseason or early season games for Denver, was the next Barry Sanders.

Donnie Avery, after a couple of pretty big games during his rookie year, was going to be the next Larry Fitzgerald.

Matt Forte, 2/3 the way through his very good rookie campaign, reminds him of Walter Payton.

 

[bucsbaby]

Another version of "that guy" is the guy who drafts a big name player in the first couple of rounds, the player underperforms, and "that guy" refuses to acknowledge any drop in value as the season progresses, still wanting top dollar in trade and will even ride the underperforming big name player(s) into the sunset of a losing season.

Seems to me that if you're out there trying to trade for this underperforming big name player, then obviously you both think he's due for a rebound.

Sure, but I'm talking about still expecting top dollar when the player's relative value (for most people) has dropped and the owner continues to overvalue the player relative to consensus value (which is fine in and of itself) even at a detriment to their team's playoff chances (which is what makes this person a "that guy")

 

[Clarence the barber]

Another version of "that guy" is the guy who drafts a big name player in the first couple of rounds, the player underperforms, and "that guy" refuses to acknowledge any drop in value as the season progresses, still wanting top dollar in trade and will even ride the underperforming big name player(s) into the sunset of a losing season.

Seems to me that if you're out there trying to trade for this underperforming big name player, then obviously you both think he's due for a rebound.

Sure, but I'm talking about still expecting top dollar when the player's relative value (for most people) has dropped and the owner continues to overvalue the player relative to consensus value (which is fine in and of itself) even at a detriment to their team's playoff chances (which is what makes this person a "that guy")

If you are the one initiating the trade, then YOU are thatguy, not him.

 

[Clarence the barber]

I think bashing the player he is aggressively trying to trade for guy can get annoying at times. In trade talks, he says to you something like, “Player X is coming off of an injury, so he isn’t worth too much… so my package is fair.” -Or- “Player Y has only had a couple big games. He’s totally unproven, so my offer should be more than enough.” While this person’s points may or may not be valid, it gets old when they hound me for a guy and then start going on about how bad the player actually is. If this player is so flawed, you probably wouldn’t be after him so fiercely.

One of these guys was in a league I joined last year. I couldn't even make it to the end of the season. Dude was an idiot.

 

[bucsbaby]

Another version of "that guy" is the guy who drafts a big name player in the first couple of rounds, the player underperforms, and "that guy" refuses to acknowledge any drop in value as the season progresses, still wanting top dollar in trade and will even ride the underperforming big name player(s) into the sunset of a losing season.

Seems to me that if you're out there trying to trade for this underperforming big name player, then obviously you both think he's due for a rebound.

Sure, but I'm talking about still expecting top dollar when the player's relative value (for most people) has dropped and the owner continues to overvalue the player relative to consensus value (which is fine in and of itself) even at a detriment to their team's playoff chances (which is what makes this person a "that guy")

If you are the one initiating the trade, then YOU are thatguy, not him.

At times, I probably am I'm just saying it cuts both ways.

 

[HULLOBUDMAN]

Trading is an art, and one of the biggest separators between great fantasy players and above average ones. The reason behind it is simple - it is the only fantasy tactic that doesn't involve an owner's own decisions. A second (or rarely, third) party must be involved. Negotiating with someone else is an acquired skill and it takes time and effort. I always like to discuss a trade, even if the offer is terrible. I want to get some idea of what they are thinking - if only to use that info to build a better trade.This "art" is one of the reasons I decided to do Trader Joe's in the first place.

How did this post go unquoted? Great post.It is very likely that people that complain about "thatguy" are really another version of "thatguy".You should never be insulted about a proposed trade not matter how bad you believe it is since everyone values players differently. If you shut down someone immediately becuase you think they are way off base, you are losing out. Always, always, take the time to respond and discuss. You may not get a deal done with that person that week or even that season but when you show someone you are open to level headed discussion you will eventually be able to do a deal that works for both of you.I try to always leave the conversation when there is no possible deal to be made with a comment like "I understand what you are saying but I just don't think that makes my team better right now. If you think you see something else, let me know."Never burn bridges.

 

[moderated]

How did this post go unquoted? Great post.It is very likely that people that complain about "thatguy" are really another version of "thatguy".You should never be insulted about a proposed trade not matter how bad you believe it is since everyone values players differently. If you shut down someone immediately becuase you think they are way off base, you are losing out. Always, always, take the time to respond and discuss. You may not get a deal done with that person that week or even that season but when you show someone you are open to level headed discussion you will eventually be able to do a deal that works for both of you.I try to always leave the conversation when there is no possible deal to be made with a comment like "I understand what you are saying but I just don't think that makes my team better right now. If you think you see something else, let me know."Never burn bridges.

Good post.Some offers are going to be perceived as bad, but there is no such thing as an insulting offer.

 

[Concept Coop]

How did this post go unquoted? Great post.It is very likely that people that complain about "thatguy" are really another version of "thatguy".You should never be insulted about a proposed trade not matter how bad you believe it is since everyone values players differently. If you shut down someone immediately becuase you think they are way off base, you are losing out. Always, always, take the time to respond and discuss. You may not get a deal done with that person that week or even that season but when you show someone you are open to level headed discussion you will eventually be able to do a deal that works for both of you.I try to always leave the conversation when there is no possible deal to be made with a comment like "I understand what you are saying but I just don't think that makes my team better right now. If you think you see something else, let me know."Never burn bridges.

Good post.Some offers are going to be perceived as bad, but there is no such thing as an insulting offer.

Can either of you point out where anyone suggested cutting off contact after one offer? How about cutting off contact at all? There are guys that have no intention of working out a reasonable deal. If you don't play in leagues with them, I envy you. That doesn't mean they don't exist/aren't annoying.

 

[renesauz]

Good post.Some offers are going to be perceived as bad, but there is no such thing as an insulting offer.

While I agree with you to an extant...you obviously have never gotten the rookie first for Chris Johnson offer (this past season), or the Devery Henderson and a third for Desean Jackson. Believe it or not, there are more than a few knuckleheads out there who continually throw out obscenely lopsided offers just waiting for someone to hit the wrong button by accident.

 

[FUBAR]

Good post.

Some offers are going to be perceived as bad, but there is no such thing as an insulting offer.

While I agree with you to an extant...you obviously have never gotten the rookie first for Chris Johnson offer (this past season), or the Devery Henderson and a third for Desean Jackson. Believe it or not, there are more than a few knuckleheads out there who continually throw out obscenely lopsided offers just waiting for someone to hit the wrong button by accident.

Maybe some do but I think most of these are simply guys just being scared to send an initial offer that's fair. Sometimes there's a reason for that, sometimes it's just that a guy doesn't have a good feel for value or hopes the other guy doesn't agree with his opinion.

 

[Clarence the barber]

Trading is an art, and one of the biggest separators between great fantasy players and above average ones. The reason behind it is simple - it is the only fantasy tactic that doesn't involve an owner's own decisions. A second (or rarely, third) party must be involved. Negotiating with someone else is an acquired skill and it takes time and effort. I always like to discuss a trade, even if the offer is terrible. I want to get some idea of what they are thinking - if only to use that info to build a better trade.This "art" is one of the reasons I decided to do Trader Joe's in the first place.

How did this post go unquoted? Great post.It is very likely that people that complain about "thatguy" are really another version of "thatguy".You should never be insulted about a proposed trade not matter how bad you believe it is since everyone values players differently. If you shut down someone immediately becuase you think they are way off base, you are losing out. Always, always, take the time to respond and discuss. You may not get a deal done with that person that week or even that season but when you show someone you are open to level headed discussion you will eventually be able to do a deal that works for both of you.I try to always leave the conversation when there is no possible deal to be made with a comment like "I understand what you are saying but I just don't think that makes my team better right now. If you think you see something else, let me know."Never burn bridges.

That sounds nice and usually you are right, but there are exceptions to everything. A few years ago I was in a startup dynasty league. I drew the 4th overall pick. I wanted to move down and fished for offers. Dude that had the 11th overall pick offered me his 1.11 and 3.11 in exchange for my 1.04 and 3.04. I asked him if he was serious and he said yes. He tried to make some foolish point that both sets of picks were in the same tier so it shouldn't matter and since I wanted to trade down he was helping me trade down. I cut off communications with him. He didn't complete a single trade for the next two years and dropped out of the league. There was no reason to talk to his clown. Not trying to make an argument, but adding a ridiculous story.

 

[comfortably numb]

I don't really mind the bad offers I get.

It is usually just rooted disparity in values.

My simple explanation to these offers would be, for example

I get offer of

Meachem, Addai, Avery and Orton

for

Desean and a 1.3

Thanks, but just to give you an idea on my value, I wouldn't do all that for 1.3 alone.

or

If I send Desean, Ryan Mathews needs to be involved.

That lets them know that you think their offer is VERY off, and gives them a gage of where you view your assets.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

I don't really mind the bad offers I get.It is usually just rooted disparity in values.My simple explanation to these offers would be, for exampleI get offer ofMeachem, Addai, Avery and Orton forDesean and a 1.3Thanks, but just to give you an idea on my value, I wouldn't do all that for 1.3 alone.orIf I send Desean, Ryan Mathews needs to be involved. That lets them know that you think their offer is VERY off, and gives them a gage of where you view your assets.

 

[Yellow Line is Unoffcial]

My latest offer from "That Guy"

He will give me:

Danny Woodhead

Denario Alexander

For:

Jimmy Graham

1.5

I blow most stupid lowball offers off, this one I couldn't. Asked if he was out of his #####!n' mind

 

[bonesman]

I think bashing the player he is aggressively trying to trade for guy can get annoying at times. In trade talks, he says to you something like, “Player X is coming off of an injury, so he isn’t worth too much… so my package is fair.” -Or- “Player Y has only had a couple big games. He’s totally unproven, so my offer should be more than enough.” While this person’s points may or may not be valid, it gets old when they hound me for a guy and then start going on about how bad the player actually is. If this player is so flawed, you probably wouldn’t be after him so fiercely.

One of these guys was in a league I joined last year. I couldn't even make it to the end of the season. Dude was an idiot.

Then there's that guy who quits his league because of a personality conflict w/ one other owner leaving the whole rest of the league to suffer. I'll take a bad trade offer that guy over that guy any day.

 

[HULLOBUDMAN]

My latest offer from "That Guy"He will give meanny WoodheadDenario AlexanderFor:Jimmy Graham1.5I blow most stupid lowball offers off, this one I couldn't. Asked if he was out of his #####!n' mind

This is the kind of thing that I am talking about. Sure, it is lopsided in his favor but there are certain people out there (Poster Otis) that loves Alexander. I am not particularly that high on Graham just going off a few good games in a half of an NFL season. Surely rather than saying " Are you out of your mind" you could have sent an email saying "No thanks but I would be interested in players X, and Y if you are interested in Graham." or "Obviously we value Alexander and Woodhead differently, I don't see them as difference makers." I don't know you or your relationship with your leaguemates but it certainly is not going to ever help you trade with this guy in the future.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

When did fantasy football become a predominantly girls hobby?

Insulted? Feelings hurt? Sending the wrong message?

How long before you guys start responding with "it's not WHAT you offered, it's HOW you offered it".

I don't make low ball offers, but I don't cry myself to sleep at night when I receive them either. It's fun to see "a trade has been proposed to you" when you're trying to grind past 2:30 at work, even if it does end up being a crappy offer.

 

[Dope]

Delete this post, commish!

 

[No Way Jose]

When did fantasy football become a predominantly girls hobby?Insulted? Feelings hurt? Sending the wrong message?How long before you guys start responding with "it's not WHAT you offered, it's HOW you offered it".I don't make low ball offers, but I don't cry myself to sleep at night when I receive them either. It's fun to see "a trade has been proposed to you" when you're trying to grind past 2:30 at work, even if it does end up being a crappy offer.

good post

 

[jwb]

The one thing that trips up lots of trade negotiations (with me, anyway) is someone who puts a player on the block, but then prettymuch has no intention of trading them unless much bigger players are also involved.

For example, someone says Brandon Jacobs is on the block. Ok, I need some RB depth, so I'm interested. I see he's light in wr, so I send what I think is a fair offer of Jacobs for my mid-level wr. I get rejected and get a counter of "Jacobs and a somewhat decent guy" for Hakeem Nicks.

and I'm thinking "wait... I'd really like to go after Jacobs w/o Nicks being involved, ok?" But more often than not, once this happens, the trade talk goes nowhere - I get different combinations, all sending Nicks (Calvin, Fitz, insert other stud) back. It's like they never had any intention of trading Jacobs - it's either a much bigger deal w/ Jacobs in it, or nothing. This happened to me in the past few weeks several times, in several leagues, with several different owners, so it seems to be a popular way of doing things. I dunno - I just don't get that type of trading.

ETA - my league mates that do this - you know I still love you, right?

 

[Concept Coop]

When did fantasy football become a predominantly girls hobby?Insulted? Feelings hurt? Sending the wrong message?How long before you guys start responding with "it's not WHAT you offered, it's HOW you offered it".I don't make low ball offers, but I don't cry myself to sleep at night when I receive them either. It's fun to see "a trade has been proposed to you" when you're trying to grind past 2:30 at work, even if it does end up being a crappy offer.

It is annoying when people have no intention of offering or workig out a (remotely) reasonable deal. If that doesn't annoy you, feel free to feel "manly" becuase of that. No need to be insulting or sexist, you manly man.