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Assani's Poker Thread (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Assani Fisher
- Start date
fasteddie_21
2006 NM Poker Champ
You should come by the house next time you're in town, Woz, and see if we 'work' at our 'job' or not 
Alias
Footballguy
How many tables could you multi-table with this setup? 
http://www.ripten.com/wp-content/uploads/2...ow-36box2-1.jpg
http://www.ripten.com/wp-content/uploads/2...ow-36box2-1.jpg
Dentist
***Official FBG Dentist***
well i know how many girls you could date with that setup.........How many tables could you multi-table with this setup?
http://www.ripten.com/wp-content/uploads/2...ow-36box2-1.jpg
Dentist
***Official FBG Dentist***
wow, that's pretty intense for the fpp's.
wcoop main event is $5000+rake
pretty unreal.. i think i listened to the 2+2 pokercast where they interviewed the first supernova elite guy and he did it mainly multi-tabling $200+15 SnG's.
for some reason i feel like to get the elite status you almost have to have a shared account with someone who will play when you aren't playing.
I wonder what % of rakeback that ends up being? i mean, to do that you'd obviously be making them a ton of money.. would you be getting like 70% back?
do you think you'll be able to do this all on PLO8? or will you need to expand into other things?
wcoop main event is $5000+rake
pretty unreal.. i think i listened to the 2+2 pokercast where they interviewed the first supernova elite guy and he did it mainly multi-tabling $200+15 SnG's.
for some reason i feel like to get the elite status you almost have to have a shared account with someone who will play when you aren't playing.
I wonder what % of rakeback that ends up being? i mean, to do that you'd obviously be making them a ton of money.. would you be getting like 70% back?
do you think you'll be able to do this all on PLO8? or will you need to expand into other things?
Even with what I'm doing, I'm on pace to make about $460 in FPP over this month. I'm not counting that stuff as part of my winnings though.
Dentist
***Official FBG Dentist***
you probably should.on the 2+2 pokercast, the guy who was the first supernova elite back in April (unreal) said in the interview that he was basically a break-even or possibly slight loser in the 200+15 SnG's that he multi-tabled to get to s-nova elite.his payout in fpp's was his only profit and it was rather handsome.
I'll definitely divulge the amount I've made in bonus money along the way, but I want to make the 10K goal all in poker winnings. At this point I'm +1600 in actual winnings and have another $450 in bonus money. So it's slightly over 25% of what I'm pulling down.Before I started playing cash games, I thought it was for hats and shirts as well. When I started this whole thing back in July I had 1300 FPP's total at the site. Now I have 35K.It gets even more lucrative when you bank more. I'm going to pull out $650 at 50K for Xmas presents this year, so you get 1.3 cents per point. If I were to bank them until 250K, that's worth 4K or 1.6 cents per point. I'm going to let it ride until Supernova after this cash out - that'll be 250K worth. And then at that point, you get a 40% bonus to your FPP rate so it's even better - it goes from 2.5 FPP per VPP to 3.5.They're pretty smart with the whole thing - I really have little incentive to play at other sites because I want to level up.
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Zow
Footballguy
haha will do. I have no doubts I'll be floored at the monitors and multi-tables. no one has said you guys don't work hardYou should come by the house next time you're in town, Woz, and see if we 'work' at our 'job' or not
kerpow
Footballguy
Hi fellas, this seems like the biggest poker thread in the FFA so I though I'd sound out your advise.
Would anybody like to give me some book recommendations? I have been a very casual player for some time, but having had a certain degree of success recently, I've had some invitations to some bigger games. "You ought to play with a few guys I know" sort of stuff. Up until now I've just played with my gut, a bit of common sense and a fair amount of luck, but would like to delve a little deeper.
I should point out that this is for purely off-line games, I have no interest in playing internet based games. I've played online a few times but simply didn't enjoy it. It is just Texas Hold'em, no other variations, and just single games rather than a tournament style with many tables.
I'd really appreciate any suggestions you may have. There are so many books available I just don't know where to start.
Would anybody like to give me some book recommendations? I have been a very casual player for some time, but having had a certain degree of success recently, I've had some invitations to some bigger games. "You ought to play with a few guys I know" sort of stuff. Up until now I've just played with my gut, a bit of common sense and a fair amount of luck, but would like to delve a little deeper.
I should point out that this is for purely off-line games, I have no interest in playing internet based games. I've played online a few times but simply didn't enjoy it. It is just Texas Hold'em, no other variations, and just single games rather than a tournament style with many tables.
I'd really appreciate any suggestions you may have. There are so many books available I just don't know where to start.
Assani Fisher
Footballguy
Havn't been playing much poker lately as I've just been concentrating on NBA betting(seriously spending about 4-5 hours per day on it), but entered the Sunday Mil today and am still alive. Right now 55 left out of 8000. I'm in 33rd place currently.
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Assani Fisher
Footballguy
and out, JJ<QK
Judge Smails
Footballguy
This concerns me. This seems to be a Stu Unger type degenerate gambler recipe for disaster. If you're really good at playing poker, where the skill is in your court, why would you want to spend 5 hours a day on sports betting? I know some of the poker players are also fiends at the sports book, but how many are successful? Wouldn't you be better off just playing poker? Seems that the sports betting could put you on tilt at the poker table. Just sayin'..
Otis
Footballguy
Professional gambling
Otis
Footballguy
The guy lives in vegas and plays cards for a living. This concerns you now?Ride it out and enjoy it Assani. Just don't burn yourself out and become a junkie, gambling or otherwise. When the party's over go get yourself a degree and a job.
Zow
Footballguy
guy probably needs a break
Your Mother
Footballguy
,S? Seems like it's easier to beat ADD college kids out of money that professional linemakers. How have you been doing so far? What factors do you look at? Totals or sides?
pantherclub
Footballguy
I have 2 random questions Assani:
1. How do you play pocket Queens? Do you play pocket Jacks any different? Just seems like I have been getting killed when I try and play these 2 hands.
2. What page number on this thread do you talk about your WSOP experience? I would love to read about it after watching it on ESPN. (I know you were not on tv but I still would like to get your take)
thanks
1. How do you play pocket Queens? Do you play pocket Jacks any different? Just seems like I have been getting killed when I try and play these 2 hands.
2. What page number on this thread do you talk about your WSOP experience? I would love to read about it after watching it on ESPN. (I know you were not on tv but I still would like to get your take)
thanks
Assani Fisher
Footballguy
I'm fully in this to make money and not to satisfy any degenerate craving for action.
-Skill matters in sports betting too-Unlike poker, I can increase the stakes in sports betting without having to face any tougher competition. -Its a constant struggle for poker pros to keep things fresh and exciting. This lets me do that.-Poker may not always be there, especially online. Branching out and increasing my options is a good thing imo.-After a while it won't take nearly 5 hours per day to do this, so if we're(me and a team of two other guys) successful then we can make huge profits without much work
If I had to estimate I'd say that its far less than poker. I'd say poker is probably 90% losers/10% winners while sports betting is closer to 98%/2% or so.
I don't think so for the reasons listed above.
Definitely. Sweating sports can suck so much at times. So many brutal losses. Some pros that I know refuse to watch games they bet on. With that said, poker can be brutal at times too and I've gotten used to that.
No worries, always appriciate advice. With that said, I probably wasn't clear on how serious I take it and how good our team is. I fully expect to be successful here.
Don't think I'll become a junkie only because I have a fairly non-addictive personality and am insanely competitive(meaning if I'm constantly losing in something then I'd stop playing it because I'd hate losing so much).Funny story about the whole degree thing.....I had finished my degree except for 6 credits of foreign language, which I thought I could take the test(CLEP I believe) and get out of because I already knew it pretty well from HS. Failed that test miserably and had to take two more 3 credit courses of it, so I went to the local community college because it was much cheaper. Took the classes there and passed. But I think I was supposed to tell my old school about it in order to get full credit for them and to get my degree. But I was busy playing poker and being the stupid kid that I am, and I never got around to it. I worked one "real job" and said that I had graduated from college on my application....not sure if they looked it up or not. After that, obviously havn't needed it for anything. So despite paying for and completing all of college, I'm not even sure if I have officially graduated.I'm sure I'd have no trouble getting staked by a ton of people if I ever needed it, but lets assume worst case scenario of me losing all my money and losing the staking money...then I'd probably get a job in the casino of some sort. I know the poker room staff very well at the Wynn, and dealers actually do make decent money so maybe something like that.
Basic overview of what we're doing:Team of 3 people who specialize in NBA Totals. We also bet some NBA point spreads too.I've found that among the pro sports betting community, most people specialize in very niche areas such as taking one small DI college basketball conference and crushing those lines all season long. And what they do is share information/picks with other people who are sharp in other areas. Living in Vegas, I know a few people who do this for a living and they give me the benefit of the doubt since they know I'm a pretty astute poker player, and once they saw that we were beating the closing lines(will explain below) on a fairly regular basis, they let us in. So even if our system fails miserably, at the very least I can follow the picks of some other sharp people.Regarding beating closing lines(feel free to skip this paragraph if you already know)- The easiest way to tell if you're winning before you get a huge sample size(you need about 2000 bets in order to be 99% sure that you're a winner) is to see if you're beating closing lines on a consistent basis. If the line for Wednesday night's games opens at 195 on Tuesday evening at 9PM and I jump on the over, and by tipoff the line is at 198 then you can be pretty damn sure that you made a solid bet. Tracking all of this is extremely important, as you can't be overly results oriented with a small sample size because the variance when you're pushing small edges(55/45 edge when you're laying -110 juice is miniscule) can be crazy.As for our method, we take the play by play data from nba.com and input it into a system. We have done this for every game last year and every game this year. This gives me a great idea of the pace of every team. Lets take the Washington Wizards this year so far for example since they're my favorite team:On offense they've had a total of 965 possessions and on average its taken them 11.96 seconds before shooting the ball. But I can go one step further and tell you that they've had 212 possessions (21.97% of their total possessions) after a defensive rebound and its taken them 11.21 seconds on average to get a shot there. Or they've had 72 possessions(7.46% of their total possessions) after forcing a turnover and its taken them 6.42 seconds on average to get a shot after that.The 6 major possession types are dead ball, made FG/FT, defensive rebound, offensive rebound, turnover(where ball is still in play, not out of bounds), and after winning jump ball. I also have league average data, so I can compare each team to each other and the league average. Moreover, I can see how many of each type of possession each team has compared to their total possessions.I also have this data for each team defensively, although its important to note that the offense is much more vital to the pace when they have the ball than the defense. The exception being that some teams are much better at not turning the ball over, giving up offensive rebounds, etc. so we can antipate their opponents having less of those types of possessions against them.Obviously for some teams like the NY Knicks, last year's data is practically useless(due to Diantoni radically changing their pace). With those sort of teams we must rely upon the very small sample size we have so far this year, and we are therefore less likely to bet on them until we gather more data unless we believe the line is way off. With teams who havn't changed as much, we can rely upon last year's data a bit more.All of that is only pace. Obviously efficiency is also important. So for the Wizards I could tell you that they've averaged 78.13 points per 100 possessions overall, and I can also break it down into each possession type. I also have their defensive stats too.Moreover, something we just added was home and away splits for each team.All of this combined gives us a good idea on what the projected final score of each game will be. The efficiency numbers aren't nearly as accurate on a small sample size as the pace numbers are, so that is why we've been betting many more totals than point spreads early in the season. As the data gets more accurate and with a bigger sample size and less SOS variables, we expect our results to be even better.I would give out a few picks today, but I hate to be judged on such a small sample size, and I know people are prone to doing that(i.e. If I give you 5 picks and go 5-0 then everyone comes in here praising me tomorrow but if I go 0-5 then everyone tells me how I'm making a huge mistake to waste time like this....when in reality its just variance EITHER WAY).I will tell you that we thought the Indiana Pacers were by far the most undervalued team at the beginning of the year and we have bet on them in every game except against OKC because we thought the Pacers could be ahead by quite a bit and garbage time would come into play and we don't have great numbers on anticipating and dealing with garbage time just yet. So far we're 5-3 betting them, and we have them -2 at home against ATL tonight.One other thing we're looking into is coaches substitution patterns which may help us beat quarter lines, although those are often -115 which is extremely tough to beat(we all get -105 on the great majority of our bets). Other than that line shopping is the biggest key, which is why its important to have multiple online sportsbooks(and someone like me in Vegas if you can) in order to always get the best price. If you're consistently betting lines when you could get a better one at another book, then its very very hard to be a longterm winner.Feel free to ask any other questions about it. I'm certainly not sure that we'll be successful, but I feel pretty good about it.Also these past few days I've gotten back into poker. Playing a lot of $5/10 heads up PLO. Have no desire to grind 12+ tables these days anymore though.
MarshallPlan
Footballguy
Sounds like you've learned quite a bit about betting the past few months. Definitly +EV if your beating closing lines. CBB totals are easier to beat if your willing to put in the work, IMO.
Assani Fisher
Footballguy
I've found that arrogance and ego is what makes the gambling world go around. All I did was ask questions to every sharp person I could and sat back and learned. I'm still nowhere near being good at it, and I still will chase action on very marginal edges. Moreover, the great majority of the credit for our system goes to one guy in particular on our team who put it all together. It was all his idea. He just saw me and one other guy on 2p2...we talked basketball all the time there and he respected our basketball knowledge a lot, and he knew we were big time poker winners too, so he thought we'd make good partners. Without him, no way I'd be beating NBA betting.
MarshallPlan
Footballguy
The only bad thing is pace and efficiency numbers are becoming more popular now. I remember using them tracking the ACC two years ago and hit over 60% for the year. It took a lot of work, but the ACC was beatable. GL - if you have any questions pm me.
Assani Fisher
Footballguy
Read Theory of Poker by David Sklansky imo. Not sure how competitve or good your game is, but most likely that will be all you need. I'd say to read through it once and use a highlight to highlight important stuff. Then take a week off and go back and re-read everything you highlighted.If you want more recommendations after that then come back here and ask.
1. I think it'd be a lot better if you gave me some hand examples. Its just such a broad question otherwise. Obviously I raise with them PF if it hasn't been raised already. I will 3 bet them sometimes and flat others. Postflop treat them like a vulnerable overpair like they are. Obviously hitting a set with them makes its pretty easy to play.2. Hmmmmm, not sure. I do have a table of contents in the first post that I update sometimes, but its not always exact. Feel free to ask any specific questions about the WSOP though.
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Assani Fisher
Footballguy
Nothing off the top of my head that I can think of, but of course I'd be interested in hearing any advice/general pointers you'd have for me considering my situation either here or via PM. Also would always be interested in hearing your story and how you got into it and what you bet.
MarshallPlan
Footballguy
I'm sure a lot of the sharps you've talked to have given you the same pointers, but a lot of them just bet rogues all day long at different books. That's kind of what I do - boring but it works. Compare my books to Pinny/Greek and just bet the good numbers. I've really been betting a lot of props lately as I've found normal sides/totals have been tough to beat. Props, 1hs, quarters, etc. The market is always evolving so it's tough to find edges in normal things. In fairness, you could probably save the 4-5 hrs of work you put in a day and just track Pinny/Greek and then bet the numbers that are moving at Vegas books. That's just me though. I've done the whole spreadsheet (tons of work) and I make more/do less by just betting rogues.
Assani Fisher
Footballguy
I hear you about saving the 4-5 hours, but honestly it doesn't feel like work at all right now. A great percentage of that time is simply talking about the games and our bets with my team, and I honestly enjoy that process. Plus its not like I have a hectic schedule or anything.
I bet mostly on a site that was set up for me....pretty sure its an illegal book, but I don't ask questions. I get paid in cash which is nice for tax purposes. The downside is that their lines are always sharp, but the upside is that they're always -105 and we have had success beating their closing lines(although they've slowly started to delay their opening lines to me and I logged onto my roomates account and saw that they were open for him, so they're doing it just to me which sucks).
Regardless, if theres interest here on FBGs, I'll keep posting about it in this thread and would always love your thoughts throughout.
I bet mostly on a site that was set up for me....pretty sure its an illegal book, but I don't ask questions. I get paid in cash which is nice for tax purposes. The downside is that their lines are always sharp, but the upside is that they're always -105 and we have had success beating their closing lines(although they've slowly started to delay their opening lines to me and I logged onto my roomates account and saw that they were open for him, so they're doing it just to me which sucks).
Regardless, if theres interest here on FBGs, I'll keep posting about it in this thread and would always love your thoughts throughout.
Zow
Footballguy
but it's his sole source of income - he can't just stop that
Otis
Footballguy
Dexter Manley
Footballguy
Let me see if I understand this. Basically you're looking at the lines on Pinny/TheGreek which should all be sharp, and then trying to find lines at other books which are off from the Pinny/TheGreek lines and betting them?For example, say Team A is favored by 5.5 points on Pinny/TheGreek, and you find a line at another book where Team A is only favored by 3.5 points. You would place a bet on Team A -3.5 at the other book, without having to do any actual handicapping, correct?MarshallPlan said:
Assani Fisher
Footballguy
Yes, that is what he is saying. Pinnacle only charges 4 cent juice. They also accept huge $$ bets on most lines. They also put up overnight lines(meaning you can bet on Thursdays NBA games on Wednesday night). By comparison the great majority of casinos here in Vegas charge 10 cent juice, will limit you to $500 or $1000 on some beatable markets such as small conference games or totals for some sports, and don't offer overnight lines. Don't get me wrong, some casinos like South Point will not do all this, but many will.So how does Pinnacle do all this and stay profitable? They have extremely sharp lines, and they adjust them exactly. What I mean by that last part is this:Take a normal book with 10 cent juice. A line there may open up at:Team A -5(-110)Team B +5(-110)Meanwhile at Pinnacle the line will open up at:Team A -5(-104)Team B +5(-104)Now if early action comes in on Team A then the first book probably will wait a while to shift their lines. In fact they won't shift the line until it can move a full 1/2 point to Team A -5.5. Pinnacle, however, as soon as theres enough action to move the line a tiny bit will shift their lines to:Team A -5(-105)Team B +5(-103)Pinnacle is extremely up to date and always very sharp. There are quite a few books out there who aren't as sharp. The problem is that many of these books don't last very long and some of them even have had issues paying out their winning customers. Its kind of a catch 22 for us bettors- on one hand we're looking for a book with bad lines that we can beat. But on the other hand, if the book isn't making money then they're not going to stay open for long and worse case scenario is that they fold up and take our money.Anyway to answer your question in much simpler terms, yes that is what hes doing. However pay attention to the juice. Sometimes you'll see most book haves a line like:Team A +3.5(-110)Team B -3.5(-110)while Pinnacle has a strange line likeTeam A +6(-126)Team B -6(+122)The numbers there are just made up, but I bring that up because you need to realize that this does NOT mean that the first book's line is off when this happens.Personally I'm a bit skeptical that in today's day and age(most of the books with easily beatable lines have folded up long ago) that you will find enough bets using this method, but MP probably knows more than me so I'm inclined to believe him.
Assani Fisher
Footballguy
Assani Fisher > Joe Hachem
PokerStars Game #22187652663: Omaha Hi/Lo Pot Limit ($5/$10) - 2008/11/19 18:16:15 ET
Table 'Amalasuntha II' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 3: joseph2 ($2144.50 in chips)
Seat 5: jwvdcw ($1080 in chips)
Seat 6: desgrippes ($1003 in chips)
Seat 8: JoeHachem ($836 in chips)
JoeHachem: posts small blind $5
joseph2: posts big blind $10
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to jwvdcw [5d 2c Ts Ad]
jwvdcw: raises $20 to $30
desgrippes: folds
JoeHachem: calls $25
joseph2: folds
*** FLOP *** [Jc Td 3h]
JoeHachem: checks
jwvdcw: bets $40
JoeHachem: calls $40
*** TURN *** [Jc Td 3h] [2d]
JoeHachem: checks
jwvdcw: bets $110
Tear u apart said, "WE'RE OVER JOE!"
JoeHachem: calls $110
*** RIVER *** [Jc Td 3h 2d] [6s]
Tear u apart leaves the table
JoeHachem: bets $270
jwvdcw: calls $270
*** SHOW DOWN ***
JoeHachem: shows [7h Ah 5s 9s] (HI: high card Ace; LO: 6,5,3,2,A)
jwvdcw: shows [5d 2c Ts Ad] (HI: two pair, Tens and Deuces; LO: 6,5,3,2,A)
jwvdcw collected $454 from pot
JoeHachem collected $227 from pot
jwvdcw collected $227 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $910 | Rake $2
Board [Jc Td 3h 2d 6s]
Seat 3: joseph2 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: jwvdcw showed [5d 2c Ts Ad] and won ($681) with HI: two pair, Tens and Deuces; LO: 6,5,3,2,A
Seat 6: desgrippes (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: JoeHachem (small blind) showed [7h Ah 5s 9s] and won ($227) with HI: high card Ace; LO: 6,5,3,2,A
PokerStars Game #22187698474: Omaha Hi/Lo Pot Limit ($5/$10) - 2008/11/19 18:17:54 ET
Table 'Amalasuntha II' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 3: joseph2 ($2109.50 in chips)
Seat 5: jwvdcw ($1311 in chips)
Seat 6: desgrippes ($1021 in chips)
Seat 8: JoeHachem ($618 in chips)
JoeHachem: posts small blind $5
joseph2: posts big blind $10
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to jwvdcw [8d 3c 5s Ac]
jwvdcw: raises $20 to $30
desgrippes: calls $30
JoeHachem: calls $25
joseph2: calls $20
*** FLOP *** [6d Qd 4c]
JoeHachem: checks
joseph2: checks
jwvdcw: bets $90
desgrippes: folds
JoeHachem: raises $298 to $388
joseph2: folds
jwvdcw: raises $298 to $686
JoeHachem: calls $200 and is all-in
Uncalled bet ($98) returned to jwvdcw
*** TURN *** [6d Qd 4c] [Ks]
*** RIVER *** [6d Qd 4c Ks] [2d]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
JoeHachem: shows [8s 5d 7h Qs] (HI: a pair of Queens; LO: 7,6,5,4,2)
jwvdcw: shows [8d 3c 5s Ac] (HI: a straight, Deuce to Six; LO: 6,4,3,2,A)
jwvdcw collected $647 from pot
jwvdcw collected $647 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $1296 | Rake $2
Board [6d Qd 4c Ks 2d]
Seat 3: joseph2 (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 5: jwvdcw showed [8d 3c 5s Ac] and won ($1294) with HI: a straight, Deuce to Six; LO: 6,4,3,2,A
Seat 6: desgrippes (button) folded on the Flop
Seat 8: JoeHachem (small blind) showed [8s 5d 7h Qs] and lost with HI: a pair of Queens; LO: 7,6,5,4,2
PokerStars Game #22187652663: Omaha Hi/Lo Pot Limit ($5/$10) - 2008/11/19 18:16:15 ET
Table 'Amalasuntha II' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 3: joseph2 ($2144.50 in chips)
Seat 5: jwvdcw ($1080 in chips)
Seat 6: desgrippes ($1003 in chips)
Seat 8: JoeHachem ($836 in chips)
JoeHachem: posts small blind $5
joseph2: posts big blind $10
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to jwvdcw [5d 2c Ts Ad]
jwvdcw: raises $20 to $30
desgrippes: folds
JoeHachem: calls $25
joseph2: folds
*** FLOP *** [Jc Td 3h]
JoeHachem: checks
jwvdcw: bets $40
JoeHachem: calls $40
*** TURN *** [Jc Td 3h] [2d]
JoeHachem: checks
jwvdcw: bets $110
Tear u apart said, "WE'RE OVER JOE!"
JoeHachem: calls $110
*** RIVER *** [Jc Td 3h 2d] [6s]
Tear u apart leaves the table
JoeHachem: bets $270
jwvdcw: calls $270
*** SHOW DOWN ***
JoeHachem: shows [7h Ah 5s 9s] (HI: high card Ace; LO: 6,5,3,2,A)
jwvdcw: shows [5d 2c Ts Ad] (HI: two pair, Tens and Deuces; LO: 6,5,3,2,A)
jwvdcw collected $454 from pot
JoeHachem collected $227 from pot
jwvdcw collected $227 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $910 | Rake $2
Board [Jc Td 3h 2d 6s]
Seat 3: joseph2 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: jwvdcw showed [5d 2c Ts Ad] and won ($681) with HI: two pair, Tens and Deuces; LO: 6,5,3,2,A
Seat 6: desgrippes (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: JoeHachem (small blind) showed [7h Ah 5s 9s] and won ($227) with HI: high card Ace; LO: 6,5,3,2,A
PokerStars Game #22187698474: Omaha Hi/Lo Pot Limit ($5/$10) - 2008/11/19 18:17:54 ET
Table 'Amalasuntha II' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 3: joseph2 ($2109.50 in chips)
Seat 5: jwvdcw ($1311 in chips)
Seat 6: desgrippes ($1021 in chips)
Seat 8: JoeHachem ($618 in chips)
JoeHachem: posts small blind $5
joseph2: posts big blind $10
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to jwvdcw [8d 3c 5s Ac]
jwvdcw: raises $20 to $30
desgrippes: calls $30
JoeHachem: calls $25
joseph2: calls $20
*** FLOP *** [6d Qd 4c]
JoeHachem: checks
joseph2: checks
jwvdcw: bets $90
desgrippes: folds
JoeHachem: raises $298 to $388
joseph2: folds
jwvdcw: raises $298 to $686
JoeHachem: calls $200 and is all-in
Uncalled bet ($98) returned to jwvdcw
*** TURN *** [6d Qd 4c] [Ks]
*** RIVER *** [6d Qd 4c Ks] [2d]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
JoeHachem: shows [8s 5d 7h Qs] (HI: a pair of Queens; LO: 7,6,5,4,2)
jwvdcw: shows [8d 3c 5s Ac] (HI: a straight, Deuce to Six; LO: 6,4,3,2,A)
jwvdcw collected $647 from pot
jwvdcw collected $647 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $1296 | Rake $2
Board [6d Qd 4c Ks 2d]
Seat 3: joseph2 (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 5: jwvdcw showed [8d 3c 5s Ac] and won ($1294) with HI: a straight, Deuce to Six; LO: 6,4,3,2,A
Seat 6: desgrippes (button) folded on the Flop
Seat 8: JoeHachem (small blind) showed [8s 5d 7h Qs] and lost with HI: a pair of Queens; LO: 7,6,5,4,2
Dexter Manley
Footballguy
I think I would tend to agree with you here, wrt to online books. I'm guessing MP probably uses local books to do this for the most part (at least for football or was he only talking about basketball?) as most bookies I've known make their football sheets on Wednesday night, and usually don't adjust many lines, unless there's a key injury or severe weather issues. For example, a few weeks ago one guy I go through had the Titans -5.5 over green bay, Pinny had the line at -3.5 by Sunday morning, so green bay +5.5 was a play. He regularly has quite a few lines which are off from Pinny. I know some of it is by design as he iintentionally inflates the line/sides of some big powerhouses in cfb (i.e. OU, Texas, etc.) that he knows there's going to be heavy action on. (Btw, he's getting killed this year as the big favorites have been covering regularly.)I think many local books are starting to use bookiemarket.com, however, which actually adjusts the lines according to wagering, so the lines are sharper than the old stereotypical bookie who only uses a sheet.
Assani Fisher
Footballguy
This may sound like minor news, but it actually is important....we've been long looking for where we can find which refs will referree each upcoming game and we finally found a site that tells us. Obviously we could've been tracking the refs for each game and how many fouls they call on average but without knowing who would ref each upcoming game it was always pointless. Now we know, and this should help us beat totals even more.
IronToe Nedney
Prolific poster
Couldn't happen to a nicer guy.Well played Assani!
Your Mother
Footballguy
What's your guys' record so far this year? I shall keep in mind that it's certainly a small sample size so far.I like the first hand a lot, I think that's exactly how I would've played it (although I pot the PF raise 100% of the time). Kind of a spazzy bet by Hachem on the end there, I don't see him having much FE or scoop possibilities.Hachem's PF call on the second hand looks brutal. I'm a bit of a pot-limit noob, but can you talk about your flop 3-bet a little? I'd probably fold to a raise or try to take a free card on the flop there, but I'm playing microstakes and there's not much sense in pushing small edges.
Assani Fisher
Footballguy
I've done a bad job tracking every bet, but approx. we're up about 4-5 units....probably something like 25-20 record with some bets for 2 units.
Keeping strict track of my results has always been a flaw of mine, both in poker and now in sports betting. I'm just really bad at it and really unorganized. I've actually considered getting an assistant to do all that crap for me plus go drive to the casino and make me bets and hopefully I could even find a hot single girl to do it....but I never can justify spending money on that when I really could do it myself if I just put the effort in.
I don't pot preflop simply because I don't think it increases fold equity, I want as much of the money to go in postflop as possible as thats where most of the skill is, and I want to be able to call 3 bets with getting good odds to hit a flop and stack him.
On the second hand, the low draw/straight draw is a pretty big hand even in a 6 max game(in a full ring game when with 3 or 4 to the flop then its a bad hand). Shorthanded, it pretty much needs to be played as a monster...anything less and you're going to get run over at these limits.
Had a 0-4 day today beting sports, which sucked, especially since I lost two of them in pretty brutal fashion(will spare you the details of a standard sports betting bad beat story). But I continue to crush the shorthanded PLO8 games....up about $10K in past few days playing those.
Keeping strict track of my results has always been a flaw of mine, both in poker and now in sports betting. I'm just really bad at it and really unorganized. I've actually considered getting an assistant to do all that crap for me plus go drive to the casino and make me bets and hopefully I could even find a hot single girl to do it....but I never can justify spending money on that when I really could do it myself if I just put the effort in.
I don't pot preflop simply because I don't think it increases fold equity, I want as much of the money to go in postflop as possible as thats where most of the skill is, and I want to be able to call 3 bets with getting good odds to hit a flop and stack him.
On the second hand, the low draw/straight draw is a pretty big hand even in a 6 max game(in a full ring game when with 3 or 4 to the flop then its a bad hand). Shorthanded, it pretty much needs to be played as a monster...anything less and you're going to get run over at these limits.
Had a 0-4 day today beting sports, which sucked, especially since I lost two of them in pretty brutal fashion(will spare you the details of a standard sports betting bad beat story). But I continue to crush the shorthanded PLO8 games....up about $10K in past few days playing those.
Judge Smails
Footballguy
I'm pretty sure this has been out there for awhile and my bet is that this is already factored in the lines.
Michael Fox Fan
Footballguy
Ok, so you don't want to hire someone...when you could do this yourself. But.....you aren't tracking the results....so it might be worth paying someone else to do it.How confident are you in the "system" you're using? A 25-20 record tells us basically nothing, the sample size is way too small. Any concern on your part that your system is simply data mining.....and that the "system" will fall apart as the future is unlikely to look like the past?
Txns8
Footballguy
I don't play much Omaha of any kind, but wtf is he doing in there calling the flop bet? Chasing the gutshot? I guess since it is PStars' money he doesn't care much...
spOOfy
Footballguy
I thought the same thing. His call here seems horrible.
The Juggernaut
The Man. The Myth
I know virtually nothing about omaha, but his PF call looks suspect to me.
spOOfy
Footballguy
The preflop call (I'm assuming that's what you meant by PF) is fine. He has a great drawing hand. But the flop call is terrible. He's drawing to a bad gutter (even if he hits, he's behind Q9). The only other thing he has is a running flush draw or running mediocre low draw. I just can't see why he'd make a flop call here unless he was planning to steal it on the turn.The Juggernaut said:
Txns8
Footballguy
4-handed with the low opt the pre flop call is fine imo.
The Juggernaut
The Man. The Myth
Ah, short-handed. Overlooked that.
Your Mother
Footballguy
Floating?ETA: I don't know, and I wouldn't have called here, just throwing out a theory.Txns8 said:
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Assani Fisher
Footballguy
It may very well be. But we didn't have it factored into our system before, and we were already beating closing lines fairly well. This should only help our system be better.
Assani Fisher
Footballguy
The 3 of us actually are pretty well known on 2p2 as the "basketball guys"(there are others too), and believe it or not we've actually had quite a few offers for our picks. As of this time, the only thing we're interested in trading our picks for is picks from people who are proven long term winners at other sports. If you offer enough $$ then I'm sure we could work something out, but it'd have to be substantial.Jimboozie said:
Assani Fisher
Footballguy
I fully realize that I'm stupid for not tracking things better myself. You will get no argument out of me there.I'm very confident in our system because we are consistently beating the closing lines. I can't stress enough how vital this is and how much this tells you about the EV of your bets. It is much much more important that your overall record.Michael Fox said: