At The Speed Of Light (1 Viewer)

[Toads]

ef.fi.ca.cy noun. The ability to produce a desired or intended result.

When I picked up the Leshoure injury to the achilles heel, It was early in that news cycle I was logged into the league I'd just drafted him in, a 1.07 in the R/FA draft.

This is big news of a season ending and career threatening injury.

I dash off 11 trade offers and marvel at the speed of the news, that trading Leshoure is probably a good idea as his value will never, probably, be as high as it is at that very moment.

Now, I'm dealing with the ethics of such a plan and realizing that it's a free trade market and that all 11 franchises, did indeed, receive "equal opportunity" offers and that, indeed, "all is fair in love and war."

Indeed.

Early email returns are interesting as some offers are replied to as they are rejected. Some are sypmpathic to the circumstance, mention "Twitter.....Baby" and are in tune with the idea that THE TIMING OF THE NEWS HOLDS VALUE.

Half hour into the cycle, I accept a counter: Greg Olson, + a fifth, in exchange for Leshoure. This turns out to be secondary to an acceptance early in line: one of the 11 original offers shapes the roster as Leshoure is traded for Woodhead.

What makes this all so interesting is the speed that the information traveled and the number of franchises that never had time to reply at all.

As to Leshoure: he was traded, in short order, and it all happened at the speed of light.

 

[solorca]

Why would you trade LeShoure for Greg Olsen? You probably could have done better. If that was the best offer I would have held on to him. His tendon isn't ruptured like D. Thomas'. There is still a chance that he could come back in a year in a half and be close to his former self. Greg Olsen is a backup tight end at best.

Not saying I would make the move, but all indications are that Greg Olsen will be the #2 target in Carolina this year. I think he'll be a steal at his current ADP...and probably a top 10 TE this season.

 

[thriftyrocker]

I think the distinction between torn and ruptured is fuzzy at this point and wouldn't read anything into it. Try googling Andre Brown or Lendale White with ruptured and torn, and you get results for both.

I think the chances you get bit by selling "low" on Leshoure are pretty nil. There's going to be unknown RBs who pop up this year who will be worth more. I would rather spend the roster spot on Lonyae Miller or Kregg Lumpkin at this point. It's hard to drop him, but any value is probably better value.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Is this thread really about you trying to trade damaged goods before the news totally broke-out?

 

[Joe Summer]

Is this thread really about you trying to trade damaged goods before the news totally broke-out?

If you're not cheating, you're not trying.** (forgot I was in the Shark Pool)

 

[valhallan]

Is this thread really about you trying to trade damaged goods before the news totally broke-out?

It would appear so. Riveting, really.

 

[Couch Potato]

The shark move was trading him away on Aug 1.

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=579550&view=findpost&p=13382696

I saw this coming. He was obviously an Achilles injury waiting to happen.

 

[Tjaden]

From a dynasty-perspective, is he a 'no-go-player'? (a player you wouldn't draft under any circumstances) or could he be a 'high risk/high-reward' low buy.

Okay, the term 'high risk/high reward' could be applied to any mid-to-low-round guy but is that kind of injury really that bad (career ending/decreasing)?

It's fishing in the dark right now but what does the history say about those kind of injury and long term effects?

thanks

 

[Couch Potato]

From a dynasty-perspective, is he a 'no-go-player'? (a player you wouldn't draft under any circumstances) or could he be a 'high risk/high-reward' low buy.Okay, the term 'high risk/high reward' could be applied to any mid-to-low-round guy but is that kind of injury really that bad (career ending/decreasing)? It's fishing in the dark right now but what does the history say about those kind of injury and long term effects?thanks

I'll never say never, but so far there hasn't been an NFL RB or WR with an Achilles tear who has come back to be an above average starter. The WR in OAK, can't remember his name, came back sorta OK and started because they had no decent WRs, but he had no burst or speed and only played a couple more years.ETA -- Rod Curry Maybe that's just "so far" but I've mentally written Leshoure off for 2011 and 2012, and then we'll see. He can sit on someone else's dynasty bench for two years, not mine.

 

[thriftyrocker]

From a dynasty-perspective, is he a 'no-go-player'? (a player you wouldn't draft under any circumstances) or could he be a 'high risk/high-reward' low buy.Okay, the term 'high risk/high reward' could be applied to any mid-to-low-round guy but is that kind of injury really that bad (career ending/decreasing)? It's fishing in the dark right now but what does the history say about those kind of injury and long term effects?thanks

High risk, low reward. A TD vulture in Detroit could have value but he'll be a fraction of his former self. There's 3 pages of discussion here: http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=603940&st=100

 

[Tjaden]

okay, thanks for the quick reply.

In real and fantasy terms my heart is bleeding - "poor" Mikel.

 

[ATC1]

From a dynasty-perspective, is he a 'no-go-player'? (a player you wouldn't draft under any circumstances) or could he be a 'high risk/high-reward' low buy.Okay, the term 'high risk/high reward' could be applied to any mid-to-low-round guy but is that kind of injury really that bad (career ending/decreasing)? It's fishing in the dark right now but what does the history say about those kind of injury and long term effects?thanks

I'll never say never, but so far there hasn't been an NFL RB or WR with an Achilles tear who has come back to be an above average starter. The WR in OAK, can't remember his name, came back sorta OK and started because they had no decent WRs, but he had no burst or speed and only played a couple more years.ETA -- Rod Curry Maybe that's just "so far" but I've mentally written Leshoure off for 2011 and 2012, and then we'll see. He can sit on someone else's dynasty bench for two years, not mine.

At Lb Tekeo Spikes had this surgery in 2005 and is still starting in the NFL. He played 12 games the next season. Missed 4 games from a hamstring injury. I would go in a different direction in the mid rounds, but if I'm a Best owner I may look to take him if there wasn't someone I needed to have.

 

[eakfootball]

The shark move was trading him away on Aug 1.http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=579550&view=findpost&p=13382696I saw this coming. He was obviously an Achilles injury waiting to happen.

There's no way you traded him because you knew an achillies tear would happen. If you thought that then why did you draft him?

 

[Stinkin Ref]

Is this thread really about you trying to trade damaged goods before the news totally broke-out?

If you're not cheating, you're not trying.

it's not cheating....

 

[Joe Summer]

I'll never say never, but so far there hasn't been an NFL RB or WR with an Achilles tear who has come back to be an above average starter.

Brandon Stokley tore his Achilles in 2006 and had his 2nd best season in 2007. Granted, he wasn't an "above average starter" in 2007 -- but he wasn't an above average starter in 2006 or 2005, either.

 

[eakfootball]

I think the distinction between torn and ruptured is fuzzy at this point and wouldn't read anything into it. Try googling Andre Brown or Lendale White with ruptured and torn, and you get results for both. I think the chances you get bit by selling "low" on Leshoure are pretty nil. There's going to be unknown RBs who pop up this year who will be worth more. I would rather spend the roster spot on Lonyae Miller or Kregg Lumpkin at this point. It's hard to drop him, but any value is probably better value.

Kregg Lumpkin and Lonyae Miller, seriously? And why would you cut him when you can stick him on IR? I would still take him in the 3rd round of a rookie draft. Owners don't seem to want to sell him in my leagues because of where they took him. I offered guys like Joe McKnight, Alex Green, and Roy Williams for him and was shot down.

 

[jeter23]

The shark move was trading him away on Aug 1.http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=579550&view=findpost&p=13382696I saw this coming. He was obviously an Achilles injury waiting to happen.

There's no way you traded him because you knew an achillies tear would happen. If you thought that then why did you draft him?

 

[Stinkin Ref]

there are only a few injuries I stay away from with RB/WR and this is one of them.....I would take whatever I could get and be pretty happy.....if he comes back and is a decent player and I miss out on it....so be it.....rather have that then hold onto him and he never fully recovers....his value may still be high to some right now, not real high, but high enough to get something....two years from now he might be bagging groceries...

 

[ATC1]

I think the distinction between torn and ruptured is fuzzy at this point and wouldn't read anything into it. Try googling Andre Brown or Lendale White with ruptured and torn, and you get results for both. I think the chances you get bit by selling "low" on Leshoure are pretty nil. There's going to be unknown RBs who pop up this year who will be worth more. I would rather spend the roster spot on Lonyae Miller or Kregg Lumpkin at this point. It's hard to drop him, but any value is probably better value.

Kregg Lumpkin and Lonyae Miller, seriously? And why would you cut him when you can stick him on IR? I would still take him in the 3rd round of a rookie draft. Owners don't seem to want to sell him in my leagues because of where they took him. I offered guys like Joe McKnight, Alex Green, and Roy Williams for him and was shot down.

I would have taken Alex Green.

 

[Couch Potato]

The shark move was trading him away on Aug 1.http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=579550&view=findpost&p=13382696I saw this coming. He was obviously an Achilles injury waiting to happen.

There's no way you traded him because you knew an achillies tear would happen. If you thought that then why did you draft him?

S/B obvious I was joking. The should give it away if not the context and incredulity of the whole idea.

 

[thriftyrocker]

I think the distinction between torn and ruptured is fuzzy at this point and wouldn't read anything into it. Try googling Andre Brown or Lendale White with ruptured and torn, and you get results for both. I think the chances you get bit by selling "low" on Leshoure are pretty nil. There's going to be unknown RBs who pop up this year who will be worth more. I would rather spend the roster spot on Lonyae Miller or Kregg Lumpkin at this point. It's hard to drop him, but any value is probably better value.

Kregg Lumpkin and Lonyae Miller, seriously? And why would you cut him when you can stick him on IR? I would still take him in the 3rd round of a rookie draft. Owners don't seem to want to sell him in my leagues because of where they took him. I offered guys like Joe McKnight, Alex Green, and Roy Williams for him and was shot down.

I don't have an IR slot in any of my leagues. If I did I might think differently. An empty roster spot is worth a lot; obviously that doesn't apply (as much) if it's an IR slot. Without that he's taking a spot I could use on Lumpkin, who will be a valuable short term player if Blount gets hurt or punches another guy. Guys who drafted Ben Tate and Hardesty last year didn't want to give him up for handcuff or flier value, either. Denial is the first stage of grief, acceptance is the last. Other than McKnight I would take any of those offers in a heartbeat.

 

[adrenaline]

The shark move was trading him away on Aug 1.http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=579550&view=findpost&p=13382696I saw this coming. He was obviously an Achilles injury waiting to happen.

I traded him away May 24

 

[eakfootball]

The shark move was trading him away on Aug 1.http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=579550&view=findpost&p=13382696I saw this coming. He was obviously an Achilles injury waiting to happen.

There's no way you traded him because you knew an achillies tear would happen. If you thought that then why did you draft him?

S/B obvious I was joking. The should give it away if not the context and incredulity of the whole idea.

gotcha

 

[Couch Potato]

The shark move was trading him away on Aug 1.http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=579550&view=findpost&p=13382696I saw this coming. He was obviously an Achilles injury waiting to happen.

There's no way you traded him because you knew an achillies tear would happen. If you thought that then why did you draft him?

S/B obvious I was joking. The should give it away if not the context and incredulity of the whole idea.

gotcha

That's OK. I'm so bad at being funny that when I try people often can't tell. You're not the first.

 

[Stealthycat]

If you're not cheating, you're not trying

I would kick you out of my league in a minute JMO

 

[ATC1]

The shark move was trading him away on Aug 1.http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=579550&view=findpost&p=13382696I saw this coming. He was obviously an Achilles injury waiting to happen.

I traded him away May 24

The shark move was buying J. Best right after the draft.

 

[Joe Summer]

If you're not cheating, you're not trying**( )

I would kick you out of my league in a minute JMO

Sorry, I forgot I was in the Shark Pool. My post has been edited accordingly.

 

[Sweet Love]

Personally, I can't get beyond on the OP...I have no clue what he is talking about...and where does Danny Woodhead fit into all of this?

 

[DoubleG]

If you're not cheating, you're not trying

I would kick you out of my league in a minute JMO

Why? Anyone that would hit "accept" on a trade that seems "too good to be true" without doing a quick search to make sure the player they are trading for isn't hurt is kinda dumb.Now, that said, I have never tried to pull anything remotely close to that. In fact, I do pretty much the opposite. I am in a dynatsy league and tell guys up front if I am trading them "damaged goods" - karma, friendship and wanting to have trade partners in the future are all reasons not to try to screw people. I win because I out work, out research and out plan my oppenents not because I am a borderline jerk-wad who is dishonest.BTW: The title of the thread should be "At The Speed OF Light" HTH.

 

[adrenaline]

The shark move was trading him away on Aug 1.http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=579550&view=findpost&p=13382696I saw this coming. He was obviously an Achilles injury waiting to happen.

I traded him away May 24

The shark move was buying J. Best right after the draft.

I guess if you like Best ... Reggie Bush can be had cheaper.

 

[We Tigers]

Personally, I can't get beyond on the OP...I have no clue what he is talking about...and where does Danny Woodhead fit into all of this?

He tore LeShoure's achilles. Sneaky bugger.

 

[Warhogs]

I thought this was a thread on what LeShoure owners are doing with him now that the injury has happened. I own him on only 1 dynasty squad and discussed trading him to one team last night with us both aware of the injury. I am not finding enough value to move him at this point so he may be headed to my IR and I will have to hope for a successful recovery.

Has anyone traded him post injury and what did you get?

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Personally, I can't get beyond on the OP...I have no clue what he is talking about...and where does Danny Woodhead fit into all of this?

I think while he was trying to accept a counter offer of Olsen and a 5th for Leshoure, another team actually accepted his original offer (sent out when the OP was trying to get over on his leaguemates), so he got "stuck" with Woodhead for Leshoure.

 

[Wyld Stallyns]

When I first started doing FF I'd be that guy to send out trade offers the instant I had a lead on some news in hopes of an owner accepting before they'd seen the scoop. ...Took a full two seasons for me to realize how douchey it was, not sure why I didn't figure it out sooner.

 

[NeverEnough]

When I first started doing FF I'd be that guy to send out trade offers the instant I had a lead on some news in hopes of an owner accepting before they'd seen the scoop. ...Took a full two seasons for me to realize how douchey it was, not sure why I didn't figure it out sooner.

Douchey? lolSurvival of the fittest. Not your job to make sure the rest of your league is paying attention.

 

[Warhogs]

When I first started doing FF I'd be that guy to send out trade offers the instant I had a lead on some news in hopes of an owner accepting before they'd seen the scoop. ...Took a full two seasons for me to realize how douchey it was, not sure why I didn't figure it out sooner.

Douchey? lolSurvival of the fittest. Not your job to make sure the rest of your league is paying attention.

Strategically, I would say trying to pull a fast one is probably a poor choice. The other owners will soon figure out what you are trying to do and they will simply not trade with you. Good luck with the trying to pull a fast one strategy. I would simply blackball you and never trade with you.

 

[Sweet Love]

Personally, I can't get beyond on the OP...I have no clue what he is talking about...and where does Danny Woodhead fit into all of this?

I think while he was trying to accept a counter offer of Olsen and a 5th for Leshoure, another team actually accepted his original offer (sent out when the OP was trying to get over on his leaguemates), so he got "stuck" with Woodhead for Leshoure.

See, I thought something totally different. Kudos to the OP...if you are going to write crap, you may as well start it with a definition...to my detriment, it caught my eye...I still want to know whether this effects Ronnie Brown in any.

 

[eakfootball]

Suprised this thread hasnt been deleted yet.

 

[the turnip]

The shark move would have been to title the thread "Replying to at the speed OF light".

Unless there is a little light that comes on when you make trade offers that you know full well, are designed to screw the other owner. Oh wait, there is, its called your conscience.

Your light is burned out. You might want to have it checked out.

 

[Stinkin Ref]

would anybody really accept a trade without checking on the players involved first.....?

 

[Dragon1952]

would anybody really accept a trade without checking on the players involved first.....?

I wouldn't, but then again I wouldn't try and trade an injured player hoping a league-mate hadn't found out yet. that is an extremely slimy move IMO.

 

[AmosMoses]

What is this "pulling a fast one" garbage? There is no such thing. Are you in a competitive league? If you are, then you should expect your leaguemates to read up about players prior to making deals for them. In fact, I'd say owners that do not do their homework regarding player acquisitions are more danger to the league than owners that do this "pulling a fast one" stuff. I expect my leaguemates to know what's going on. Why don't you?

 

[AmosMoses]

would anybody really accept a trade without checking on the players involved first.....?

I wouldn't, but then again I wouldn't try and trade an injured player hoping a league-mate hadn't found out yet. that is an extremely slimy move IMO.

No.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

Yeah I'm all for calling it slimy and that goes double if you know the people in the league...

 

[D.J.]

What is this "pulling a fast one" garbage? There is no such thing. Are you in a competitive league? If you are, then you should expect your leaguemates to read up about players prior to making deals for them. In fact, I'd say owners that do not do their homework regarding player acquisitions are more danger to the league than owners that do this "pulling a fast one" stuff. I expect my leaguemates to know what's going on. Why don't you?

if you are asking for full value for a recently "damaged" player, you are hoping that they do not know whats going on, not assuming they do. While I wouldnt call for someone's head for making an offer to trade away someone as soon as he got hurt, I would also think twice before trading with them in the future. Its difficult to do business with someone that you dont trust. if I know someone is trying to prey on others, I assume they are always trying to prey on someone and will always be weary of trading with them

 

[AmosMoses]

What is this "pulling a fast one" garbage? There is no such thing. Are you in a competitive league? If you are, then you should expect your leaguemates to read up about players prior to making deals for them. In fact, I'd say owners that do not do their homework regarding player acquisitions are more danger to the league than owners that do this "pulling a fast one" stuff. I expect my leaguemates to know what's going on. Why don't you?

if you are asking for full value for a recently "damaged" player, you are hoping that they do not know whats going on, not assuming they do. While I wouldnt call for someone's head for making an offer to trade away someone as soon as he got hurt, I would also think twice before trading with them in the future. Its difficult to do business with someone that you dont trust. if I know someone is trying to prey on others, I assume they are always trying to prey on someone and will always be weary of trading with them

Again, I expect my leaguemates to do a teeny bit of homework. Why don't you? But yes, I would have a problem conducting deals with people I don't trust. That is people I don't trust to read about the players they are acquiring.

 

[Moonlight]

Its a good practice to do a google, FBG, other fantasy source search before making a trade to make sure you are not getting damaged goods.

 

[the turnip]

What happened to treating people like you would like to be treated?

"Success without honor is an unseasoned dish; it will satisfy your hunger, but it won't taste good." — Joe Paterno

 

[nysportsfan]

Personally, I can't get beyond on the OP...I have no clue what he is talking about...and where does Danny Woodhead fit into all of this?

+1, I feel like I just read Beowulf.

 

[DropKick]

ef.fi.ca.cy noun. The ability to produce a desired or intended result.

When I picked up the Leshoure injury to the achilles heel, It was early in that news cycle I was logged into the league I'd just drafted him in, a 1.07 in the R/FA draft.

This is big news of a season ending and career threatening injury.

I dash off 11 trade offers and marvel at the speed of the news, that trading Leshoure is probably a good idea as his value will never, probably, be as high as it is at that very moment.

Now, I'm dealing with the ethics of such a plan and realizing that it's a free trade market and that all 11 franchises, did indeed, receive "equal opportunity" offers and that, indeed, "all is fair in love and war."

Indeed.

Early email returns are interesting as some offers are replied to as they are rejected. Some are sypmpathic to the circumstance, mention "Twitter.....Baby" and are in tune with the idea that THE TIMING OF THE NEWS HOLDS VALUE.

Half hour into the cycle, I accept a counter: Greg Olson, + a fifth, in exchange for Leshoure. This turns out to be secondary to an acceptance early in line: one of the 11 original offers shapes the roster as Leshoure is traded for Woodhead.

What makes this all so interesting is the speed that the information traveled and the number of franchises that never had time to reply at all.

As to Leshoure: he was traded, in short order, and it all happened at the speed of light.

And what was your intended result, to have your morality questioned by league mates less than thrilled with your behavior? I'd like to hear some of the trade offers.The speed of information is nothing new. A topic of greater interest is the ripple effect for rookie drafts.