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Auction Vs. Draft (1 Viewer)

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Incogneto

Footballguy
I started doing my HEAVY DUTY prep for my auction tonight, and found that articles on 'The Draft' outnumbered 'Auction' articles by about a 10-1 ratio.

I have been in an Auction league for the past 7 years, and thought it was the way that people were going. I know anyone that has ever tried it will never go back to a regular serpentine draft.

How many people really still draft??? Can we get more Auction content on this site?

 
I agree with a previous thread that in general people like the ease of a draft. In an auction you have to pay attention to every player so others don't get values. In a draft it's here are the undrafted guys now take one and wait until it comes back to you. Auctions will never become the default draft option for the general public but I see substantial growth within the hardcore players.

 
Hardcore FF player= a fairly equal split of auction & serpentine

Casual FF player= 80-90% standard serpetine draft

With that said I think auctions will continue to rise in popularity as time goes on.

 
Hardcore FF player= a fairly equal split of auction & serpentineCasual FF player= 80-90% standard serpetine draftWith that said I think auctions will continue to rise in popularity as time goes on.
not sure if I understand you or not...but we are pretty damned hardcore in our group. and we are redraft? serpentine... every time
 
We went to auction 9 years ago and haven't looked back. By far the better format. I'd like to see more auction content as well.

 
Hardcore FF player= a fairly equal split of auction & serpentineCasual FF player= 80-90% standard serpetine draftWith that said I think auctions will continue to rise in popularity as time goes on.
not sure if I understand you or not...but we are pretty damned hardcore in our group. and we are redraft? serpentine... every time
He is saying that among leagues that have mostly hardcore players, those leagues are fairly equally split between snake and auction.
 
I agree with a previous thread that in general people like the ease of a draft. In an auction you have to pay attention to every player so others don't get values. In a draft it's here are the undrafted guys now take one and wait until it comes back to you. Auctions will never become the default draft option for the general public but I see substantial growth within the hardcore players.
I love Auctions, I converted my main league to an Auction draft. If you don't like the tier of players left where you're drafting, you really have no choice in a serpentine draft. In an auction, everyone has equal chance of every player and you can't get 'sniped' a pick right before you. There's more luck involved in a draft than skill. For example, with the 8th pick in the draft last year I know a friend of mine wanted Chris Johnson at 1.9, but he was taken 8th and he was stuck with settling for Steve Slaton... This season, unless you have a top 2 pick, you have no shot at Chris Johnson.
 
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So after 25 votes, it looks like more people use the auction than use a draft?

This shows that the 10-1 Draft/Auction article ratio is WAAAAY off. It also shows that less and less people care about 'ADP', and are more interested in APV (Average Purchase Value).

Please FBGs...MORE AUCTION ARTICLES!!!!

 
So after 25 votes, it looks like more people use the auction than use a draft?This shows that the 10-1 Draft/Auction article ratio is WAAAAY off. It also shows that less and less people care about 'ADP', and are more interested in APV (Average Purchase Value).Please FBGs...MORE AUCTION ARTICLES!!!!
easy there grasshopper... 25 votes out of the whole FF community is about... 1/100 of a percentodds are the people who responded or were intrigued by this article were reeled in by the word 'auction' in the heading.Id venture to say FBG have it rite... for every 10ppl in draft, theres 1 in auction. if that.... and Im not hating on auctions, I couldnt care less about how people conduct their business. there is no way on God's green earth that the percentages even come close
 
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I love redraft i love the real gm draft warroom feel ive seen a couple of auctions in person and ill take the redraft 10 times out of 10 i love the draft i love watching the real nfl draft its the best day of the yr. I dont believe every owner should have a shot at every player

 
I love redraft i love the real gm draft warroom feel ive seen a couple of auctions in person and ill take the redraft 10 times out of 10 i love the draft i love watching the real nfl draft its the best day of the yr. I dont believe every owner should have a shot at every player
Every year when I watch the NFL draft I keep thinking how much better this would be if owners were bidding on rookies instead.
 
My 'hardcore' league has been auction now for many years. I also do a couple of casual leagues that will always be the standard serpentine draft. You just can't recruit co-workers to do an auction for a casual work league.

But I agree that an auction is way more fun and requires far more prep. Not only for player values, but for nominating strategies as well. When do you throw out the big names? Do you nominate a top kicker or Def early and see if you can get them cheap (while owners are still being tight with their money)? Or nominate them early so teams do spend some cap money early? Auctions are far less predictable and you really need to be involved in every player. Even if you're just keeping track of cap space so you see who's got the cash remaining and what their needs are. Heck, its even fun sometimes to bid on a player you have no interest in just to get the price up - make others spend their cash on guys you don't want. Risky, but satisfying when it pays off.

 
Auction is by far my favorite format but in I am in one league that drafts and that won't change as it is pretty casual and drafts are more straight forward, predicatable and very little preparation is needed.

 
My league converted to an auction 8 years ago and it was not easy to get a 6-4 vote to change (took years actually). Funny, after the first year of doing the auction, we had a vote and it was 10-0 to continue doing the auction. I am in a second league (draft league) and it is just sooo boring to wait 10-20 picks until you can make your next selection. In an auction, you are involved in the bidding on any player you choose, there are so many different strategies you can perform, and is so more exciting (but stressful) than a draft. I think a good percentage of draft supporters have never tried an auction league and I guess 99% would never go back to the draft if they tried the auction format for 1 year.

 
I can't see myself playing in a league that didn't do auction drafts.

Sure it's "harder". The draft is way more fun and intense, and you can build your team how you want, instead of around what spot you pick in.

 
Incogneto said:
So after 25 votes, it looks like more people use the auction than use a draft?This shows that the 10-1 Draft/Auction article ratio is WAAAAY off. It also shows that less and less people care about 'ADP', and are more interested in APV (Average Purchase Value).Please FBGs...MORE AUCTION ARTICLES!!!!
I suspect the vast majority of drafts are still drafts and not auction drafts.The auction style draft offers some unique challenges but by no means IMHO has it been adopted by the masses.Take me for exampleI am in two serpentine drafts1 non-serpentine six person keeper league draft1 auction draftThe four leagues I turned down playing in were all serpentine style draftsEveryone plays by the same ruleset. The challenge is outwitting your leaguemates.I think its silly to say one format is far superior to another.
 
I do one of each every year and I prefer the draft. I love the element of surprise on who people are going to pick, watching people make mistakes and taking advantage of it. I also love evaluating ADP and identifying player value that way, it is much more fun for me than using player dollar values. I find that in auctions the pre-draft dollar values do not end up being close to what they were projected to be for a good amount of players anyway.

Also, the excitement in an auction ends for me after the big money is spent in the first 30 minutes, and the rest of it seems to last forever.

 
Incogneto said:
So after 25 votes, it looks like more people use the auction than use a draft?
Ummm....that's not what the poll question asked.You asked about preference - not about use. There might be people who would prefer auction, but still use draft.Sorry, but this poll (at least if you're trying to point to that conclusion) is fla\/\/wed.
 
I would never give up my auction league but I do like doing mock drafts as well so I do both. One of my leagues actually does both. We do an auction redraft and a regular draft keeper league.

 
Incogneto said:
So after 25 votes, it looks like more people use the auction than use a draft?This shows that the 10-1 Draft/Auction article ratio is WAAAAY off. It also shows that less and less people care about 'ADP', and are more interested in APV (Average Purchase Value).Please FBGs...MORE AUCTION ARTICLES!!!!
If this thread is about getting more auction articles on FBG's I fully support it. You will be +1 subscribers if this happens.
 
Incogneto said:
So after 25 votes, it looks like more people use the auction than use a draft?This shows that the 10-1 Draft/Auction article ratio is WAAAAY off. It also shows that less and less people care about 'ADP', and are more interested in APV (Average Purchase Value).Please FBGs...MORE AUCTION ARTICLES!!!!
If this thread is about getting more auction articles on FBG's I fully support it. You will be +1 subscribers if this happens.
Well, damn near 100 votes, and its just under 50-50. Does that not seem like more people would like auction based articles?JOE? DODDS? Anyone Listening??
 
Incogneto said:
So after 25 votes, it looks like more people use the auction than use a draft?This shows that the 10-1 Draft/Auction article ratio is WAAAAY off. It also shows that less and less people care about 'ADP', and are more interested in APV (Average Purchase Value).Please FBGs...MORE AUCTION ARTICLES!!!!
If this thread is about getting more auction articles on FBG's I fully support it. You will be +1 subscribers if this happens.
Well, damn near 100 votes, and its just under 50-50. Does that not seem like more people would like auction based articles?JOE? DODDS? Anyone Listening??
The vast majority of FBG content is applicable to both drafts and auctions.
 
Having not done an auction, how much longer would you say an auction style draft takes vs your standard serpentine draft all other things being equal (# teams/rounds)

 
14th year of a $100 entry auction league. I'm convinced the format levels the playing field. Guy could walk in with an unread July mag and do fine. When it comes down to it, he's only going to have to pay $1 more than the market says the studs are worth. Draft is much more dominated by the sharks, IMO.

 
14th year of a $100 entry auction league. I'm convinced the format levels the playing field. Guy could walk in with an unread July mag and do fine. When it comes down to it, he's only going to have to pay $1 more than the market says the studs are worth. Draft is much more dominated by the sharks, IMO.
Excellent point. I play a lot of Auction and I havent really thought of it like that.
 
14th year of a $100 entry auction league. I'm convinced the format levels the playing field. Guy could walk in with an unread July mag and do fine. When it comes down to it, he's only going to have to pay $1 more than the market says the studs are worth. Draft is much more dominated by the sharks, IMO.
Excellent point. I play a lot of Auction and I havent really thought of it like that.
Choice (could bid any player) gives illusion of being in control. Open bidding is the leveler. If it was blind bidding or even poker style, sharks could eat.Everyone leaves an auction happy.
 
14th year of a $100 entry auction league. I'm convinced the format levels the playing field. Guy could walk in with an unread July mag and do fine. When it comes down to it, he's only going to have to pay $1 more than the market says the studs are worth. Draft is much more dominated by the sharks, IMO.
Excellent point. I play a lot of Auction and I havent really thought of it like that.
really? I always thought the exact opposite. You could buy any magazine in July and follow the cheat sheet and have an ok draft. Whereas, if you know your stuff with an auction, you can have any player you want, and get all the deals. The more prepared you are, the better you will do at an auction. Whit a draft, its whatever falls to you.
 
14th year of a $100 entry auction league. I'm convinced the format levels the playing field. Guy could walk in with an unread July mag and do fine. When it comes down to it, he's only going to have to pay $1 more than the market says the studs are worth. Draft is much more dominated by the sharks, IMO.
15th year of our auction draft and I would have to say this is so far off base it's laughable. With a decent cheat sheet or DD and the same rules a person could draft a good team no matter the competition or participants, you don't even have to be there to do it. In an auction each year, each group of owners, and each years bargains can swing greatly and what a person is worth and what he is actually paid can be vastly different. Sure anyone can pay $1 more for player X, but when you get a sense that someone is going to go the distance for that player is where someone can really get pushed to paying more than he should go for, or worse, is if you misread and overpay when you are just trying to push someone to the limit. In a draft there is no way to replicate a room full of guys screaming and cheering you on to keep on bidding and insulting your manhood until you win the auction. Adrenaline and ego can be a hard thing to put in check, especially if you have a room full of guys trying to unhinge you.
 
14th year of a $100 entry auction league. I'm convinced the format levels the playing field. Guy could walk in with an unread July mag and do fine. When it comes down to it, he's only going to have to pay $1 more than the market says the studs are worth. Draft is much more dominated by the sharks, IMO.
Excellent point. I play a lot of Auction and I havent really thought of it like that.
really? I always thought the exact opposite. You could buy any magazine in July and follow the cheat sheet and have an ok draft. Whereas, if you know your stuff with an auction, you can have any player you want, and get all the deals. The more prepared you are, the better you will do at an auction. Whit a draft, its whatever falls to you.
In a draft, your intent and the way you value players is a huge part of strategy. Not what players to pick when it comes around to you but judging what will be available to you in 20 and 30 picks down the road.Open bid auction is like poker where everybody turns over their cards before betting. Effective bluff bidding is a not possible when incremental bids are as small as .5% of salary cap.
 
14th year of a $100 entry auction league. I'm convinced the format levels the playing field. Guy could walk in with an unread July mag and do fine. When it comes down to it, he's only going to have to pay $1 more than the market says the studs are worth. Draft is much more dominated by the sharks, IMO.
Excellent point. I play a lot of Auction and I havent really thought of it like that.
really? I always thought the exact opposite. You could buy any magazine in July and follow the cheat sheet and have an ok draft. Whereas, if you know your stuff with an auction, you can have any player you want, and get all the deals. The more prepared you are, the better you will do at an auction. Whit a draft, its whatever falls to you.
Not true at all. Sharks find the best value that falls to them in each round of the draft. That's how leagues are won, not by targeting specific players or just "taking whatever falls to you". You need to determine which player AND at which position presents the next best value at the moment you are picking. This is what makes drafts much more difficult, and takes a lot of preparation. As I mentioned earlier, I play in both formats, and I can tell you the prep time I spend on the draft compared to the auction is about a 10-1 ratio. With the auction, it's all about predetermined dollar values for players, then bidding on the good values and passing on those overpriced, with some positional strategy thrown in, it's not that difficult. Drafts separate the sharks from the guppies IMO.
 
In a draft, your intent and the way you value players is a huge part of strategy. Not what players to pick when it comes around to you but judging what will be available to you in 20 and 30 picks down the road.

Open bid auction is like poker where everybody turns over their cards before betting. Effective bluff bidding is a not possible when incremental bids are as small as .5% of salary cap.
This makes no sense. Judging what will be available to you 20 or 30 picks down the road is no different than judging what will be available to you for the $8 you've budgeted for your RB3 (or whatever). A clueless person at an auction has no idea what player to overbid for. Sure, Clueless Joe can win whatever auction he wants, but if he spends $5 too much on two expensive chumps his auction is pretty much finished.

It comes down to this: In a draft, your choices are relatively constrained. The fewer choices you have, the less opportunity you have for differentiation.

 
14th year of a $100 entry auction league. I'm convinced the format levels the playing field. Guy could walk in with an unread July mag and do fine. When it comes down to it, he's only going to have to pay $1 more than the market says the studs are worth. Draft is much more dominated by the sharks, IMO.
Excellent point. I play a lot of Auction and I havent really thought of it like that.
really? I always thought the exact opposite. You could buy any magazine in July and follow the cheat sheet and have an ok draft. Whereas, if you know your stuff with an auction, you can have any player you want, and get all the deals. The more prepared you are, the better you will do at an auction. Whit a draft, its whatever falls to you.
In a draft, your intent and the way you value players is a huge part of strategy. Not what players to pick when it comes around to you but judging what will be available to you in 20 and 30 picks down the road.Open bid auction is like poker where everybody turns over their cards before betting. Effective bluff bidding is a not possible when incremental bids are as small as .5% of salary cap.
Yes, but that's the point the auction drafters are trying to make: You don't HAVE to wait for ANYONE to come back to you (while missing on a bunch of players in between that you have ZERO shot at). Everyone is available for the price. And, yeah, sure, any Joe Schmoe can get someone by paying 1$ more for someone, but they also only have a maximum amount of money to spend. And if you get 2 Joe Schmoes betting each other up a couple of times, they soon have no money left and the sharks feast. If I get the #7 position in a serpentine, I can basically go through the consensus ADP listings and cross off a huge pile of players that I will have next to no chance of getting. But in an auction, everyone is available and it just depends on what people will spend.

My comments though don't apply to leagues where you can trade up to get players. Those are the only serpentines I would be excited about playing in, really. I like being able to get any player, rather than the person who picks first automatically gets Chris Johnson or ADP, etc. In an auction, everyone starts out on a level playing field and you fill your team based on the players you are willing to pay the most to get. Basically, you put your money where your mouth is in terms of your projections. Imo owners who do their homework are much better rewarded in an auction vs. a serpentine where no in-draft trading is allowed.

 
* It comes down to this: In a draft, your choices are relatively constrained. The fewer choices you have, the less opportunity you have for differentiation.
* If your league doesnt allow trading.
Even if your league allows trading your choices are constrained relative to an auction. In a draft you have 18 choices to make. At each pick there are a relatively small number of realistic selections; three or four in the early rounds, rising to 10 or 12 in the late rounds. And it's a single choice at each round; you either pick the player or you don't. There are some other dynamics, you can try to figure out who will be there for you next round, you can look at the players in between your current and next pick to project their actions, but really, there aren't a lot of degrees of freedom. If you draft by straight ADP modified for injuries you are very likely to wind up with a competitive team.

In an auction you are forced to make a yes/no decision on over 200 players--do I bid or not? And then for every player you bid on (generally at least 30 or 40) you have to decide how much to bid. That's enormously more freedom than is available in a draft, even if you make a trade or two. Whereever there is more freedom, better players should have more success.

 
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* It comes down to this: In a draft, your choices are relatively constrained. The fewer choices you have, the less opportunity you have for differentiation.
* If your league doesnt allow trading.
Even if your league allows trading your choices are constrained relative to an auction. In a draft you have 18 choices to make. At each pick there are a relatively small number of realistic selections; three or four in the early rounds, rising to 10 or 12 in the late rounds. And it's a single choice at each round; you either pick the player or you don't. There are some other dynamics, you can try to figure out who will be there for you next round, you can look at the players in between your current and next pick to project their actions, but really, there aren't a lot of degrees of freedom. If you draft by straight ADP modified for injuries you are very likely to wind up with a competitive team.

In an auction you are forced to make a yes/no decision on over 200 players--do I bid or not? And then for every player you bid on (generally at least 30 or 40) you have to decide how much to bid. That's enormously more freedom than is available in a draft, even if you make a trade or two. Whereever there is more freedom, better players should have more success.
I would take this farther and say that every auction that you are not a part of whether it is bidding or verbally influencing the bidding process works against you as any money that they leave on the table that they otherwise wouldn't have will have a negative effect on you later in the draft. As far as trades we have a them too, as well as a 5 round rookie straight draft. We also have weekly mini-auctions for player pickups that can only be used with the money that you save from the initial auction, which adds another layer of complexity to your draft day decisions.

 
Think of it this way - whether auction or draft you could take the 10-12 draft sheets of the league and mathematically create a consensus list for the league.

The results of an auction would more closely follow that consensus list because there are more people participating in determining each player's value than in a draft where positional needs take over very quickly (even before the first player is taken due to RB scarcity!) and players slip relative to the master list creating greater opportunity for value.

 
At each pick there are a relatively small number of realistic selections;
Again, only if you dont allow trading.*Or you arent very good at trading. (Another BIG reason standard Auctions helps even things out for guppies. I dont like lowering the bar myself.).
I trade in auctions, too, so trading is a wash in terms of complexity.
Your auction has trades in the midst of it that include dollar amounts? Excellent, and a virtual first. That has to be among the .000000001% of all auctions ever done. (But Im still not buying it as a "wash" on the other 99.999999999% of 'em).
You're kidding right? There's far more trading at my auctions than in any draft I've done.
 
Honestly I don't know anyone who does an auction draft.

I'd suspect 90+% of leagues are using a regular draft.

I'd love to do a live auction with 11 other guys who could get together live with me and do it.

Unfortunately I don't know 11 guys that are into fantasy football enough to get it going.

And i wouldn't want to do an auction where there were dudes who weren't there live.

Most of us have the same problem. We're into it... but we don't have enough hard core friends that want to do it.

There's no question it would benefit the sharks and encourages more skillful play.

But if I had the league donkeys getting blown out even more consistently than they already are, I'd simply lose members...

I'd rather keep my league together with a draft than lose people.

How would i go about finding a good auction league in my hometown?

 
14th year of a $100 entry auction league. I'm convinced the format levels the playing field. Guy could walk in with an unread July mag and do fine. When it comes down to it, he's only going to have to pay $1 more than the market says the studs are worth. Draft is much more dominated by the sharks, IMO.
Excellent point. I play a lot of Auction and I havent really thought of it like that.
really? I always thought the exact opposite. You could buy any magazine in July and follow the cheat sheet and have an ok draft. Whereas, if you know your stuff with an auction, you can have any player you want, and get all the deals. The more prepared you are, the better you will do at an auction. Whit a draft, its whatever falls to you.
Not true at all. Sharks find the best value that falls to them in each round of the draft. That's how leagues are won, not by targeting specific players or just "taking whatever falls to you". You need to determine which player AND at which position presents the next best value at the moment you are picking. This is what makes drafts much more difficult, and takes a lot of preparation. As I mentioned earlier, I play in both formats, and I can tell you the prep time I spend on the draft compared to the auction is about a 10-1 ratio. With the auction, it's all about predetermined dollar values for players, then bidding on the good values and passing on those overpriced, with some positional strategy thrown in, it's not that difficult. Drafts separate the sharks from the guppies IMO.
I don't buy this argument at all. If you do your VBD spreadsheet including positional breakdowns you can easily order it based on ADP/draft or auction price and it amounts to the same thing imo. For the serpentine draft, you take your VBD numbers and then organize your players according to how you would take them (i.e., value them) and then compare this against ADP to anticipate when the player will be available. Except where your valuation significantly deviates from ADP, you can basically autodraft off your list, once you finish your projections. For auction, you do the same list, but instead of an ordered list, it is by $ value. Indeed, you bid where YOU see value...but, the main point is, imo, that you CAN bid on ANY player IF you want to. In a serpentine, the majority of the players you have no say in whatsoever. You can only choose from the remaining players when it comes to be your turn. And that is what people mean when they say that you only get "whatever falls to you"
 
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For the record, I just want to say that I agree with Choke that hardcore draft leagues that feature a lot of trading are as good as hardcore auction leagues. However, I think that standard auctions are much better than standard serpentine drafts because every player is available to you (i.e., I agree with the degrees of freedom argument)

 
chess vs. checkers.

easy to find 11 other numbnuts who will play a game of checkers with you.

a 12 person chess match (humor me and presume such a game exists) is way more difficult to put together, but magnitudes more interesting and challenging.

comparing the two is silly. and i play both formats every year.

 
For the record, I just want to say that I agree with Choke that hardcore draft leagues that feature a lot of trading are as good as hardcore auction leagues. However, I think that standard auctions are much better than standard serpentine drafts because every player is available to you (i.e., I agree with the degrees of freedom argument)
Except he's not saying that. He's saying that Auction is for kiddies and Serpentine is where 'Sharks prevail'. Obviously he's had experiences where he's ripped off some guppies reaching in serpentine and has found less oppertunity to do so in Auctions so Auctions must be inferior. :thumbup:
 
For the record, I just want to say that I agree with Choke that hardcore draft leagues that feature a lot of trading are as good as hardcore auction leagues. However, I think that standard auctions are much better than standard serpentine drafts because every player is available to you (i.e., I agree with the degrees of freedom argument)
Except he's not saying that. He's saying that Auction is for kiddies and Serpentine is where 'Sharks prevail'. Obviously he's had experiences where he's ripped off some guppies reaching in serpentine and has found less oppertunity to do so in Auctions so Auctions must be inferior. :thumbup:
Yeah, I guess I'm just trying to establish the middle ground where I agree with him that if there is a lot of trading serpentines can be as good as auctions. But, if not, then I still maintain that auctions are superior.
 
I would love to convert the league I created to an auction, but we have guys who are out of state. They can draft on the phone during a live draft. They can't do an auction. I think there is almost no comparison between the two. Auctions are infinitely more interesting, and more fun. Truth is, if I had my choice, I'd never do another draft.

I'd like to see more big money options for auctions. The WCOFF, FFPC, and NFFC, are all drafts in the big money competition. WCOFF and NFFC have big money auction leagues that are separate from the big money contests. I'd really like to see a big money contest that was all auction. That may become more of an option when there are internet sites that can host auctions easily, and effectively. That would be a good area for Football Guys to get in to, in addition to their Players Championship.

 
Good topic, however for the poll to be meaningful it should be limited only to FF-ers that play (or have played) in both serp and auction drafts. I suspect that most (if not all) folks on these board that play in auction drafts, have experience also playing in straight serp drafts. However, I suspect that the converse is not true. Hence, the poll results will have a bias in it.

I have played in both formats for several years and enjoy playing in both.

However, if I had to choose only 1 format it would definately be the auction format.

The auction draft itself is much more of an andrenaline rush and requires much more ad hoc adjustments and thinking on one's feet.

With regards to the ability to trade up or down in a serp draft, I really don't see a large amount of that during the live portion of the draft and that includes leagues with very experienced owners so I don't buy the premise that in-draft trading allows one to target any player in a serp draft as many owners are not prepared to engage in the real-time adjustments necessary to pull this off.

I find the early rounds of serp drafts during certain years to become a bit formulaeic from certain draft spots as it is well known in advance at certain slots some players will not be available, while others are the "safe choice". Less ability to target guys that you are really high on versus the herd and vice versa.

 

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