What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

Audit the Wall - No Plans, No Funding, No Timeline (1 Viewer)

BobbyLayne

Footballguy
Can we talk about if there is any evidence “Build the Wall” is anything more than a rhetorical tool?

The administration has made no serious efforts on a number of key prerequisites to building a wall along the U.S. Mexico border. 

Costs and Funding

Not only had U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP), the agency currently responsible for the security of the southern border, not set aside funding for such a massive infrastructure project, adequate estimates of the project’s true cost have also been hard to come by. An August 2018 report from the Government Accountability Office (GAO) found that the administration failed to consider how geographical differences would affect cost estimates, and the minority staff on the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee published a report stating that the full bill could be as high as $70 billion — well over Trump’s $25 billion request in early 2018 and the $5 billion he is currently demanding from Congress.

In 2018, Congress appropriated $1.6 billion for maintenance of current barriers, and that money was used to award replacement fencing in Arizona (set to begin in April) and 14 miles of new construction in Texas (set to begin in February). Two miles of wall in Southern California, which the administration claimed constituted the first completed section, had actually been planned since 2009 — and used 2017 funding.

The president persists in claiming that Mexico will fund the wall’s construction, a vow he made during his presidential campaign. But there have been no efforts by U.S. diplomatic officials to push Mexico to accept this — in fact, in memos prepared for meetings of former Secretary of State Rex Tillerson and Mexican officials, references to the border wall were only to be addressed “if raised” by the Mexican officials, and the issue was not included as a State Department “key objective.”

It’s clear that there were no serious plans to get Mexico to foot the bill, but alternate financing isn’t readily available either, nor was there a comprehensive schedule from the administration for the wall’s construction. Emails between CBP officials and congressional staff reveal that neither branch of government knew where it could find funding, with one House staffer saying, “Apparently, there is a pot of money somewhere we didn’t know about.”

Land Ownership

Additionally, most border land without a fence is privately owned, and the administration has made little effort to prepare for eminent-domain seizures — or for the significant legal challenges that would likely arise, and take years to resolve, for hundreds of the nearly 5,000 parcels of land in question. DHS and U.S. attorney’s offices in New Mexico, Arizona and California sent letters indicating that they found no records of efforts to plan a significant eminent-domain undertaking. While news reports said that the administration had begun preparations to seize private land in the Texas Rio Grande Valley in June 2018, neither U.S. attorney’s office for the two Texas border districts have responded to our March 2017 FOIA request. Justice Department records we obtained indicated that no land-acquisition cases had been referred to the department.

The administration has also made almost no efforts to engage with the leaders of a sovereign Native American tribe that controls 62 miles of border land. In one of the few communications produced from our FOIA requests, the chairman of the Tohono O’odham nation criticized the CBP’s apparent failure to provide Tohono leaders with details about border-security plans, saying it was “inconsistent with the government-to-government relationship between the Nation and the United States.”

Environmental Considerations

Another consideration the administration failed to make was the serious damage to ecosystems along the border from the construction of a contiguous wall. In a 2007 Fish and Wildlife Service analysis, officials warned of “serious, and likely irreparable, wildlife and habitat loss” from the placement of 70 miles of border fence in the Rio Grande Valley. Subsequent FWS biological assessments in 2012 and 2016 indicated that harm to ecosystems would also arise from similar border construction, including damage to the habitat of the endangered Sonoran pronghorn and the threatened northern Mexican gartersnake.

Trump’s reliance on the wall as a rallying cry is grounded not in policy considerations but in his attempt to placate his political base. The administration’s inaction doesn’t just reveal Trump’s call for the border fence to be a toothless demand; it also points to the failure of the administration and agencies to seriously study the effects and consequences of what the president promises.

https://www.americanoversight.org/audit-the-wall-no-plans-funding-or-timeline-and-no-wall

 
Exactly. If DJT had/has any real intention of building this thing he would have gotten the process started long ago. He does not.

Besides, he was having discussions and signing letters of intent to proceed with a Russian contractor to build a hotel/tower in Moscow, which is much more important to his personal bottom line. That project needed design plans, cost analysis, etc.

 
It’s another thing that should be hammered home every time anyone in the administration takes questions.  

How do you expect the American people to find a wall for which you have no actual plans?

After 2 years we have nothing...except that weak drawing he tweeted.

 
It’s another thing that should be hammered home every time anyone in the administration takes questions.  

How do you expect the American people to fund a wall for which you have no actual plans?

After 2 years we have nothing...except that weak drawing he tweeted.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
How do you expect the American people to find a wall for which you have no actual plans?
Duh, it' see- through.....

If you meant fund that is a question that might be asked but would be answered with "gimme some money and I'll let you know".

The position "no wall" is a lot easier to defend

 
BobbyLayne said:
Can we talk about if there is any evidence “Build the Wall” is anything more than a rhetorical tool?

The administration has made no serious efforts on a number of key prerequisites to building a wall along the U.S. Mexico border. 
This is the point I've been making. And really it would be in Trump's and his followers' favor if Trump's CBP or DHS provided a report detailing the things you mention above. The what where how why of it all would be helpful to Trump, presuming it justified what he is requesting. Likewise Democrats could simply do something other than object harumphing about the immorality of it. We do have fencing. It was pretty well supported at the time. It was a snoozer of an issue for the American people, no one really cared about the technical details of policing the border in 2006. I also think the press and Dems alike way too often fall into Trump's nomenclature of "wall." A wall has not been on the table ever, not even since Trump came into office and even IIRC DHS immediately came back with different prototypes of fencing.

 
BobbyLayne said:
Trump’s reliance on the wall as a rallying cry is grounded not in policy considerations but in his attempt to placate his political base. The administration’s inaction doesn’t just reveal Trump’s call for the border fence to be a toothless demand; it also points to the failure of the administration and agencies to seriously study the effects and consequences of what the president promises.
Hear hear. And I think it's always worth pointing out where the wall idea was generated - by Sam Nunberg as a mnemonic to get Trump to talk immigration policy in his speeches. That's it, that's whole thing, that's where this comes from.

 
This is the point I've been making. And really it would be in Trump's and his followers' favor if Trump's CBP or DHS provided a report detailing the things you mention above. The what where how why of it all would be helpful to Trump, presuming it justified what he is requesting. Likewise Democrats could simply do something other than object harumphing about the immorality of it. We do have fencing. It was pretty well supported at the time. It was a snoozer of an issue for the American people, no one really cared about the technical details of policing the border in 2006. I also think the press and Dems alike way too often fall into Trump's nomenclature of "wall." A wall has not been on the table ever, not even since Trump came into office and even IIRC DHS immediately came back with different prototypes of fencing.
Why should the Dems do that? As long as "wall" is in Trump's vocabulary, the Dems have the easy position of "no wall" which is a lot easier to defend (see the harrumphing part above) than minutiae on a lot of other issues. You're usually better at realpolitik that this...

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Why should the Dems do that? As long as "wall" is in Trump's vocabulary, the Dems have the easy position of "no wall" which is a lot easier to defend (see the harrumphing part above) than minutiae on a lot of other issues. You're usually better at realpolitik that this...
My inclination here is that Trump has as usual corrupted the policy discussion with corrupting language. You're right, when Trump says wall, treat it as "wall" and the wall as such was dead as an actual thing since the day he came into office. But policy discussions are impossible under these circumstances.

 
My inclination here is that Trump has as usual corrupted the policy discussion with corrupting language. You're right, when Trump says wall, treat it as "wall" and the wall as such was dead as an actual thing since the day he came into office. But policy discussions are impossible under these circumstances.
My take is that policy discussio is dead with Trump anyway

 
Hear hear. And I think it's always worth pointing out where the wall idea was generated - by Sam Nunberg as a mnemonic to get Trump to talk immigration policy in his speeches. That's it, that's whole thing, that's where this comes from.
I had missed this somehow. Had to go look it up. I always figured it was based on some less-than-credible source Trump had read or heard somewhere. Turns out it's actually worse than I though. Jebus. 

 
My take is that policy discussio is dead with Trump anyway
Well, of course you were right.

"Without a wall, it doesn't work."
- Reporter notes that Pelosi says she "might be open to other physical barriers", Trump reverts to "wall" as an absolute.

- So after weeks of claiming the Dems were playing games with words, Trump came back and reasserted the demand of a wall as 'wall'.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
This is the point I've been making. And really it would be in Trump's and his followers' favor if Trump's CBP or DHS provided a report detailing the things you mention above. The what where how why of it all would be helpful to Trump, presuming it justified what he is requesting. Likewise Democrats could simply do something other than object harumphing about the immorality of it. We do have fencing. It was pretty well supported at the time. It was a snoozer of an issue for the American people, no one really cared about the technical details of policing the border in 2006. I also think the press and Dems alike way too often fall into Trump's nomenclature of "wall." A wall has not been on the table ever, not even since Trump came into office and even IIRC DHS immediately came back with different prototypes of fencing.
Yep. If there were actual plans submitted and a cost analysis done that showed a wall is the most effective way to protect our border most people would be on board with it. We’re left with a Trump “believe me” from a pathological liar to trust that a wall is our best option

 
Yep. If there were actual plans submitted and a cost analysis done that showed a wall is the most effective way to protect our border most people would be on board with it. We’re left with a Trump “believe me” from a pathological liar to trust that a wall is our best option
Hey, wheels work, so that’s all the planning and info I need! Look at all these cars! By the way, have you seen the cars they drive in Mexico? Their wheels work great. Just get to the border and hang a left (usually) and don’t forget your blue tape. 

Wait...what happens when wheel meets wall? 

 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top