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Autistic teenager in Utah shot by police after mother calls for help (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter msommer
- Start date
the moops
Footballguy
Definitely should not be police. They are not trained for these situations, so I can't truly blame them. Paramedics? Mental health counselors? It's a tough spot, for I can understand the need/want for a police presence, should things go really sideways. But if the mom calls 911 and is clear that this is an autistic child with no weapon who is experiencing a major mental health issue - well, that call should get routed to someone who has the skills to deescalate the situation and not make it worse
Morton Muffley
Footballguy
Tragic.
There's gotta be a word for what should be done:
Give me a minute...I'll come up with it...
Summer Wheat
Footballguy
Very tragic indeed, but won`t get 10% the coverage Jacob Blake`s shooting garnered. The dynamics don`t fit.
Are you suggesting that if there was one detail that was changed about this story that it woumd have bkown up?
Possum
Footballguy
agreed - this stuff is yet another indicator of why we still badly need police reform in this country. Yet the protests that were supposed to be focused on this are falling apart in senseless violence and destruction and have generated very little in the way of coherent demands for change, progress or actual results.
I think there have been tons of coherent demands for change. There hasn't been any progress or results. I suspect that much of the violence has to do with the fact that there hasn't been any progress or results, no?
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
I believe most of the violence and looting have been opportunists and those looking for trouble.
I agree with Possum that this is derailing progress being made on much needed change.
Sure, I'm on board that violence and looting is opportunists that don't care about issues. However, let's say that continued peaceful protests are because there is no progress, and continued peaceful protests present the opportunists with the opportunity they seek.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
the moops
Footballguy
Is it really necessary to bring race into this immediately? I thought you frowned at that sort of thing?
Let's stay on topic as the OP asked us to. What should we do differently when there is clearly a mental health issue at play? Should this be the job of the police?
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
Because race is immediately brought into the majority of these incidents. Why should we ignore race this time?
Of course it is important. If police reform is really what the media, the left, and BLM want, this case should be the poster child for police reform and everyone would be screaming about it......But police reform is not the issue. The issue is promulgating the phony narrative about white privilege and institutional racism. This story cuts against that grain, so the media will make this story a footnote only and continue to shine the light on all their lies like Jacob Blake which by anyone who cares about truth will acknowledge it was an appropriate use of lethal force. I am not making race the story, I am pointing out the racist BS reasoning as to why that the left will ignore it.
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the moops
Footballguy
Hard to engage with you in any serious discussion when you ignore the plights of minorities in this country
Possum
Footballguy
Rich, I personally haven't seen much in the way of coherently elucidated demands or platforms - I'm not talking about general stuff like calling for "defunding the police" without any real, specific points on how that's supposed to happen, though. I'd be happy to be wrong, though, can you give me more info on what you're seeing?
It is easier to get people banned around here so you don't have to engage in any discussion which doesn't support your fairy-tales.
the moops
Footballguy
JAA
Footballguy
Herb
Footballguy
Well congrats. According to the video, if you learn nothing from this exercise you are a fool. I tend to agree and I'll take the brainwashed elementary school children and their compassion over whatever it is in your life that convinced you that this is not relevant.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Do you think police reform is necessary and urgent to stop some of these killings by police of people with mental illnesses or disabilities?
Certainly, there is special training needed to know how to recognize and deal with such circumstances which I am certain most police lack.
I did not say I learned nothing. I learned how easily it is to stage video that can be used to brainwash people. If they were honest, there would be a percentage of white people in the back and some black people out front. But honesty and propaganda don't mix.
Joe Summer
Footballguy
At this point in time, why would anyone call the police for a domestic issue involving a mentally ill family member?
Why...Parents divorced when I was 4. I had no father figure in house. Went to public schools. Never had a tutor. Cellphone question was N/A. Mom lived at times on food stamps, i helped with bills. I had to pay for college myself mostly with loans. These items might be more prominent in the black community, but there are disadvantage white folks, just like there are blacks that do have privilege. Privilege is more about class than it is skin color, but there is correlation.
She did not call the police, she called 9-11. There were issues with how the call was directed and what information was conveyed. That is a key place that needs some reform.
Herb
Footballguy
There WERE white people in the back. And, like you, I would have been among them. And I, like you, seem to have gotten to a place where I am no longer among them, and my children won't be either. But I recognize that even if I didn't start out with a leg up and had to work my butt off to get where I am, I'm also extremely fortunate in many respects, not the least of which is being born with white skin.
It is called truth and reality and knowledge which has convinced me. The truth and reality is we are being lied to on a daily basis about how bad it actually is. I don't deny it does not exist, but the media seeks out the worst stories and distorts them terribly to paint a grossly distorted picture. It is also the knowledge that the policies they promote will have the exact opposite effect of what they promise. Their policies will only serve to make things worse and this country more divisive as we get away from law and order and true equality.
There were four black people in the back row and one black and one white in the second to last row. In the front row there 5 white people followed by 7 more white people in the second row.
JAA
Footballguy
Do you agree with the proliferation of food stamps? I mean, it sounds like public assistance was very important to you and the family. What if someone told your mom "Just pull it up by the bootstraps?" Food stamps being a social(ist) program, I'm guessing you are voting democratic on this? Same with the medical coverage you received as a kid, you want that for other underprivileged families right? Something like medicare for all?
I also think you are conflating "privilege" with "white privilege". I recommend you take out race from the conversation of "privilege". That has helped me in my growth in this area.
I never really spoke out against a safety net. I have no problem with government doing a limited amount of stuff. Let the government do what makes most sense with the 40% they take.
I think we should take race out of the equation and we all would be better off. But that ain't happening.
JAA
Footballguy
Thanks for the response.
It sounds like we are in agreement that there needs to be safety nets for people. Also, telling people to "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" is stupid.
Herb
Footballguy
Taking race out of the equation is what these movements are striving to do. The message becomes distorted in a myriad of ways from all directions, but that's the end goal. I hope, anyway.
the moops
Footballguy
well, this thread sure devolved quickly.
to answer the OP's question: no, pretty obviously the police should not have been called for this situation.
a Mobile Crisis Response Team of mental health workers (probably 2 people) should have been dispatched.
such responders do exist in some places. they are not armed in any way and prohibited from using force. i've been retired a few years, but such teams existed in my county when i was working.
that said, MCRT would likely not have been dispatched as the result of a 911 call, my guess is police and maybe paramedics would have been.
there was a Mental Health Crisis line that if called might have dispatched the MCRT. knowledge about the Mental Health Crisis hotline was less than ideal, but this kid's mom, being in the system, might have been aware.
funding, i believe, was funneled through the county, but mainly state and federal money.
(oh yeah, they likely changed Mental to Behavioral, as a more culturally palatable term eventually),
edited to add, there are lots of behavioral health workers, totally unarmed and prohibited from using force in anyway, who frequently place themselves in volatile, potentially dangerous situations, without escalating the situation, and they are paid peanuts. (do i sound bitter?)
to answer the OP's question: no, pretty obviously the police should not have been called for this situation.
a Mobile Crisis Response Team of mental health workers (probably 2 people) should have been dispatched.
such responders do exist in some places. they are not armed in any way and prohibited from using force. i've been retired a few years, but such teams existed in my county when i was working.
that said, MCRT would likely not have been dispatched as the result of a 911 call, my guess is police and maybe paramedics would have been.
there was a Mental Health Crisis line that if called might have dispatched the MCRT. knowledge about the Mental Health Crisis hotline was less than ideal, but this kid's mom, being in the system, might have been aware.
funding, i believe, was funneled through the county, but mainly state and federal money.
(oh yeah, they likely changed Mental to Behavioral, as a more culturally palatable term eventually),
edited to add, there are lots of behavioral health workers, totally unarmed and prohibited from using force in anyway, who frequently place themselves in volatile, potentially dangerous situations, without escalating the situation, and they are paid peanuts. (do i sound bitter?)
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msommer
Footballguy
St. Louis Bob
Footballguy
Our oldest son has Asperbergers. Ages 13-15 were the worst. Most of this was documented in GMTAN but puberty/hormones and meds that no longer work are a toxic combination. Like this young man he would sometimes lose all control. He would never try to hurt anyone but a lot of screaming and breaking things. Having a police officer misunderstand the situation and shoot him was on the top of worry list. I literally cried reading this article. Gave him a big hug, he's 16 now and doing well, and he told me he had read about this as well. We couldn't really say a word to each other but just hug.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
This right here should be front and center in the “defund the police” type arguments. Redirecting some funding to mental health initiatives and workers who can de-escalate a crisis rather than pull weapons out and scream at someone causing escalation should be a high priority.
And police should be completely re-trained IMO. Their primary response and training should be in de-escalation. And use of force by police should follow the same protocols that our military uses. It should always be the last resort and all if all the protocols aren’t followed the officer should be immediately fired. Constantly gunning down people isn’t what brave police officers do. Brave police officers do everything they can to prevent anyone else from being hurt. To serve and protect needs to become the default again.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
Agree with @song and @GroveDiesel - this is fundamentally an example of our need for improved health care services funding / support and outreach. And to make it political again, I don't think this is the sort of problem a free market approach addresses.
....8 likes for this BS post. The need for the left to feel superior and belittle the other side is insatiable. 
John Blutarsky
Footballguy
It’s moops, not surprising.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
Who's dusting off the Woogie Lee alias? Hasn't posted in 7 years until today
John Blutarsky
Footballguy
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Cowboysfan8
Footballguy
There are lots of serious proposals out there. I don't think you'll see many coming from politicians because serious policy discussions of this nature don't really fit into a soundbite. That said, a bunch of them are spread throughout some of the threads in this forum, although they tend to get glossed over pretty quickly. Here are a couple that I remember. For more, I'd have to do some searching.
https://medium.com/@yudkowsky/a-comprehensive-reboot-of-law-enforcement-b76bfab850a3
https://8cantwait.org/
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