Baltimore: The Next Ferguson? (2 Viewers)

[matttyl]

Ok, maybe continued gap in graduation rates from white to black over the past 50 years would have been better worded? Just the fact that there is a significant gap, and that gap has recently been growing, is a valid concern, no?

I don't mean to evade or misrepresent anything, and we're getting way off point here with our back and forth which isn't getting anyone anywhere. I was just hoping to have a conversation about the current concerns in black society today, and what they may be attributed to. Many here want to attribute the bulk of the blame to history. Personally I don't think that's the case, but I'm honestly not sure what it would be.

 

[Baloney Sandwich]

David Simon, author of several books about life and crime on the streets of Baltimore and the

writer/producer of the HBO series, The Wire, spoke out on Freddie Gray and the drug war and threw out criticism of former Baltimore mayor Martin OMalley, now a potential

presidential candidate.

He said in a blog post on the Marshall Project page The drug war began it, certainly, but the stake

through the heart of police procedure in Baltimore was Martin OMalley3. He destroyed police work in some real respects. Whatever was left of it when he took over the

police department, if there were two bricks together that were the suggestion of an edifice that you could have called meaningful police work, he found a way to pull them apart.

https://www.themarshallproject.org/2015/04/29/david-simon-on-baltimore-s-anguish?utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share-tools&utm_source=twitter&utm_content=post-top

Thanks for posting that. Very interesting. I agree partly with his conclusion that softening up drug policies will help curb some of the policing problems. But only marijuana. Legalizing anything harder than that is insanity. I've lived in the drug culture (mostly on the recovery side) since the early 80's and

I've buried countless friends.

But legalize pot. It's relatively harmless. Give the people their pot but draw a hard line on

coke, heroin, and the rest of the hard stuff.

You buried all your friends while drugs were illegal. The ready supply and availability of drugs is always there, having drugs be illegal only serves to crimalize addictive behavior and line the pockets of drug cartels.

 

[Smack Tripper]

David Simon, author of several books about life and crime on the streets of Baltimore and the writer/producer of the HBO series, The Wire, spoke out on Freddie Gray and the drug war and threw out criticism of former Baltimore mayor Martin OMalley, now a potential presidential candidate.

He said in a blog post on the Marshall Project page The drug war began it, certainly, but the stake through the heart of police procedure in Baltimore was Martin OMalley3. He destroyed police work in some real respects. Whatever was left of it when he took over the police department, if there were two bricks together that were the suggestion of an edifice that you could have called meaningful police work, he found a way to pull them apart.

https://www.themarshallproject.org/2015/04/29/david-simon-on-baltimore-s-anguish?utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share-tools&utm_source=twitter&utm_content=post-top

Thanks for posting that. Very interesting. I agree partly with his conclusion that softening up drug policies will help curb some of the policing problems. But only marijuana. Legalizing anything harder than that is insanity. I've lived in the drug culture (mostly on the recovery side) since the early 80's and I've buried countless friends.But legalize pot. It's relatively harmless. Give the people their pot but draw a hard line on coke, heroin, and the rest of the hard stuff.

Here...

April 29, 2015

Hillary Clinton To Call For 'End To The Era Of Mass Incarceration' In Major Speech

WASHINGTON -- Hillary Clinton will deliver a major speech on criminal justice reform Wednesday, calling for fundamental changes to how the United States punishes its citizens and an end to a system that disproportionately targets black men.

Clinton is scheduled to keynote the 18th Annual David N. Dinkins Leadership and Public Policy Forum at Columbia University Wednesday morning. It will be her most significant policy address since she launched her 2016 presidential bid this month.

Clinton will lay out her vision for criminal justice reform, centering around an "end to the era of mass incarceration," according to an aide who provided a preview of her remarks. Those changes include addressing probation and drug diversion programs, increasing support for mental health and drug treatment and pursuing alternative punishments for low-level offenders.

She also will call for body cameras for every police department in order to increase transparency and accountability in a way that benefits both officers and members of the public.

In a December speech to the Massachusetts Conference for Women, Clinton said the country needed to look at "hard truths" about racial injustice in the current system.

Clinton will revive that theme on Wednesday, saying black men are far more likely than whites to be targeted by policeand slapped with longer prison sentences.

During a fundraising event in New York City Tuesday, Clinton addressed the tensions in Baltimore, which is still reeling from the death of Freddie Gray, a 25-year-old black man who died after sustaining injuries while in police custody.

“It is heartbreaking,” Clinton said. “The tragic death of another young African-American man. The injuries to police officers. The burning of peoples’ homes and small businesses. We have to restore order and security. But then we have to take a hard look as to what we need to do to reform our system.”

Clinton will also make additional comments about Baltimore on Wednesday.

Clinton's rhetoric on criminal justice has changed significantly since the 1990s, when she was first lady and when President Bill Clinton signed a massive 1994 crime bill into law. At the time, many politicians in both parties -- including Clinton herself -- were pushing for more prisons and stricter sentencing laws.

While running for president in 2007, Clinton was asked at the Iowa Brown and Black Presidential Forum whether her husband's crime bill was "one of the primary factors behind the rising incarceration rate for blacks and Latinos." Clinton acknowledged that it had contributed.

"I think that the results -- not only at the federal level, but at the state level -- have been an unacceptable increase in incarceration across the board and now we have to address that," she said. "At the time, there were reasons why the Congress wanted to push through a certain set of penalties and increase prison construction and there was a lot of support for that across a lot of communities."

"It’s hard to remember now, but the crime rate in the early 1990s was very high," she added. "But we’ve got to take stock now of the consequences, so that’s why I want to have a thorough review of all of the penalties, of all the kinds of sentencing, and more importantly start having more diversion and having more second chance programs."

Ummm Hillary, you should be thanking the cops and DAs for doing their jobs. If you want to reduce incarceration, then change the laws. Once upon a time you were a Senator and could have done that.

Bernie Saunders already pulling Hilary to the left

 

[Gary Coal Man]

David Simon, author of several books about life and crime on the streets of Baltimore and the writer/producer of the HBO series, The Wire, spoke out on Freddie Gray and the drug war and threw out criticism of former Baltimore mayor Martin OMalley, now a potential presidential candidate.

He said in a blog post on the Marshall Project page The drug war began it, certainly, but the stake through the heart of police procedure in Baltimore was Martin OMalley3. He destroyed police work in some real respects. Whatever was left of it when he took over the police department, if there were two bricks together that were the suggestion of an edifice that you could have called meaningful police work, he found a way to pull them apart.

https://www.themarshallproject.org/2015/04/29/david-simon-on-baltimore-s-anguish?utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share-tools&utm_source=twitter&utm_content=post-top

Thanks for posting that. Very interesting. I agree partly with his conclusion that softening up drug policies will help curb some of the policing problems. But only marijuana. Legalizing anything harder than that is insanity. I've lived in the drug culture (mostly on the recovery side) since the early 80's and I've buried countless friends.But legalize pot. It's relatively harmless. Give the people their pot but draw a hard line on coke, heroin, and the rest of the hard stuff.

Here...

April 29, 2015

Hillary Clinton To Call For 'End To The Era Of Mass Incarceration' In Major Speech

WASHINGTON -- Hillary Clinton will deliver a major speech on criminal justice reform Wednesday, calling for fundamental changes to how the United States punishes its citizens and an end to a system that disproportionately targets black men.

Clinton is scheduled to

I'm sure her desire to secure the black vote over her Democrat primary contenders factors in as well.

 

[ClownCausedChaos2]

The Orioles game (the "Free Game of the Day") is blacked out locally on mlb.tv.

:facepalm:

 

[James Daulton]

During the riots, a young black dude was interviewed and asked about why he thought this was happening. He basically said that all the after school rec centers had been closed, the basketball courts were unplayable, and there was just nothing for the kids to do. While I don't think his points = rioting, there is a lot of truth to the fact that the city has balanced it's budget to some extent on the backs of the poor the last decade or so. Funding for activities that we all likely agree are great for any race have been cut or removed. Poor kid's parents also probably don't have the economic means to provide sufficient activities for their kids, and thus the kids get frustrated.

Another way in that the issue at hand is at least as large a poverty issue (likely mostly a poverty issue) as it is a race issue.

And I concur that there's been some great discussion ITT.

 

[PinkydaPimp]

Stewart Goes Off: Maybe We Should’ve Cared About Baltimore Before It Was ‘On Fire’

 

[TheIronSheik]

The Orioles game (the "Free Game of the Day") is blacked out locally on mlb.tv.

:facepalm:

How is Philly in the blackout zone?

 

[James Daulton]

The Orioles game (the "Free Game of the Day") is blacked out locally on mlb.tv.

:facepalm:

How is Philly in the blackout zone?

Cmon, you know why...

 

[ClownCausedChaos2]

The Orioles game (the "Free Game of the Day") is blacked out locally on mlb.tv.

:facepalm:

How is Philly in the blackout zone?

You're in the blackout zone too?

 

[TheIronSheik]

The Orioles game (the "Free Game of the Day") is blacked out locally on mlb.tv.

:facepalm:

How is Philly in the blackout zone?

Cmon, you know why...

I don't.

 

[MattFancy]

So weird listening on the radio and hearing the crack of the bat and the ump making calls

 

[General Tso]

David Simon, author of several books about life and crime on the streets of Baltimore and the

writer/producer of the HBO series, The Wire, spoke out on Freddie Gray and the drug war and threw out criticism of former Baltimore mayor Martin OMalley, now a potential

presidential candidate.

He said in a blog post on the Marshall Project page The drug war began it, certainly, but the stake

through the heart of police procedure in Baltimore was Martin OMalley3. He destroyed police work in some real respects. Whatever was left of it when he took over the

police department, if there were two bricks together that were the suggestion of an edifice that you could have called meaningful police work, he found a way to pull them apart.

https://www.themarshallproject.org/2015/04/29/david-simon-on-baltimore-s-anguish?utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share-tools&utm_source=twitter&utm_content=post-top

Thanks for posting that. Very interesting. I agree partly with his conclusion that softening up drug policies will help curb some of the policing problems. But only marijuana. Legalizing anything harder than that is insanity. I've lived in the drug culture (mostly on the recovery side) since the early 80's and

I've buried countless friends.

But legalize pot. It's relatively harmless. Give the people their pot but draw a hard line on

coke, heroin, and the rest of the hard stuff.

You buried all your friends while drugs were illegal. The ready supply and availability of drugs is always there, having drugs be illegal only serves to crimalize addictive behavior and line the pockets of drug cartels.

I think it's implicit within my statement that a lot more would be buried if hard drugs were legalized.

 

[TheIronSheik]

The Orioles game (the "Free Game of the Day") is blacked out locally on mlb.tv.

:facepalm:

How is Philly in the blackout zone?

You're in the blackout zone too?

Apparently. But I can watch it on the MLB app on my iPhone. Weird.

 

[Loan Sharks]

I don't know enough about welfare to know if it discourages marriage, sorry.

As I understand it in basic terms - it's FAR easier for a single mother to obtain it.

Many economists think the War on poverty act is the single biggest cause for the destruction of the black family. Look it up but there are MANY articles like this excerpt around.

The most devastating by-product of the mushrooming welfare state was the corrosive effect it had (along with powerful cultural phenomena such as the feminist and Black Power movements) on American family life, particularly in the black community.
 As provisions in welfare laws offered ever-increasing economic incentives for shunning marriage and avoiding the formation of two-parent families, illegitimacy rates rose dramatically.

For the next few decades, means-tested welfare programs such as food stamps, public housing, Medicaid, day care, and Temporary Assistance to Needy Families penalized marriage. A mother generally received far more money from welfare if she was single rather than married. Once she took a husband, her benefits were instantly reduced by roughly 10 to 20 percent. As a Cato Institute study noted, welfare programs for the poor incentivize the very behaviors that are most likely to perpetuate poverty.[2] Another Cato report observes:

“Of course women do not get pregnant just to get welfare benefits.... But, by removing the economic consequences of out-of-wedlock birth, welfare has removed a major incentive to avoid such pregnancies. A teenager looking around at her friends and neighbors is liable to see several who have given birth out-of- wedlock. When she sees that they have suffered few visible consequences ... she is less inclined to modify her own behavior to prevent pregnancy.... Current welfare policies seem to be designed with an appalling lack of concern for their impact on out-of-wedlock births. Indeed, Medicaid programs in 11 states actually provide infertility treatments to single women on welfare.”
The marriage penalties that are embedded in welfare programs can be particularly severe if a woman on public assistance weds a man who is employed in a low-paying job. As a FamilyScholars.org report puts it: “Whena couple's income nears the limits prescribed by Medicaid, a few extra dollars in income cause thousands of dollars in benefits to be lost. What all of this means is that the two most important routes out of poverty—marriage and work—are heavily taxed under the current U.S. system.”[3]

 

[TheIronSheik]

So weird listening on the radio and hearing the crack of the bat and the ump making calls

As an Astros fan, it's not that odd.

 

[MattFancy]

The Orioles game (the "Free Game of the Day") is blacked out locally on mlb.tv.

:facepalm:

How is Philly in the blackout zone?

You're in the blackout zone too?

Apparently. But I can watch it on the MLB app on my iPhone. Weird.

I'm blacked out, but it's letting me listen to it

 

[ClownCausedChaos2]

The Orioles game (the "Free Game of the Day") is blacked out locally on mlb.tv.

:facepalm:

How is Philly in the blackout zone?

You're in the blackout zone too?

Apparently. But I can watch it on the MLB app on my iPhone. Weird.

Hadn't thought of that. I'll give it a shot.

 

[TheIronSheik]

The Orioles game (the "Free Game of the Day") is blacked out locally on mlb.tv.

:facepalm:

How is Philly in the blackout zone?

You're in the blackout zone too?

Apparently. But I can watch it on the MLB app on my iPhone. Weird.

I'm blacked out, but it's letting me listen to it

I'm watching it. It's pretty crazy. 3 run home run by the O's and all you hear are the cheers of the dugout. Weird that they still announce the batters.

 

[Parrothead]

The Orioles game (the "Free Game of the Day") is blacked out locally on mlb.tv.

:facepalm:

How is Philly in the blackout zone?

You're in the blackout zone too?

Apparently. But I can watch it on the MLB app on my iPhone. Weird.

I'm blacked out, but it's letting me listen to it

I'm watching it. It's pretty crazy. 3 run home run by the O's and all you hear are the cheers of the dugout. Weird that they still announce the batters.

interesting.. I wonder if they are using the giant scoreboard

 

[ClownCausedChaos2]

The Orioles game (the "Free Game of the Day") is blacked out locally on mlb.tv.

:facepalm:

How is Philly in the blackout zone?

You're in the blackout zone too?

Apparently. But I can watch it on the MLB app on my iPhone. Weird.

I'm blacked out, but it's letting me listen to it

I'm watching it. It's pretty crazy. 3 run home run by the O's and all you hear are the cheers of the dugout. Weird that they still announce the batters.

interesting.. I wonder if they are using the giant scoreboard

I wonder if they'll have Guess the Attendance?

 

[MattFancy]

The Orioles game (the "Free Game of the Day") is blacked out locally on mlb.tv.

:facepalm:

How is Philly in the blackout zone?

You're in the blackout zone too?

Apparently. But I can watch it on the MLB app on my iPhone. Weird.

I'm blacked out, but it's letting me listen to it

I'm watching it. It's pretty crazy. 3 run home run by the O's and all you hear are the cheers of the dugout. Weird that they still announce the batters.

interesting.. I wonder if they are using the giant scoreboard

I wonder if they'll have Guess the Attendance?

I wanna see Kiss Cam!

 

[ClownCausedChaos2]

The Orioles game (the "Free Game of the Day") is blacked out locally on mlb.tv.

:facepalm:

How is Philly in the blackout zone?

You're in the blackout zone too?

Apparently. But I can watch it on the MLB app on my iPhone. Weird.

I'm blacked out, but it's letting me listen to it

I'm watching it. It's pretty crazy. 3 run home run by the O's and all you hear are the cheers of the dugout. Weird that they still announce the batters.

interesting.. I wonder if they are using the giant scoreboard

I wonder if they'll have Guess the Attendance?

I wanna see Kiss Cam!

Ugh...it'll be Thorn and Palmer.

 

[mcintyre1]

David Simon, author of several books about life and crime on the streets of Baltimore and the

writer/producer of the HBO series, The Wire, spoke out on Freddie Gray and the drug war and threw out criticism of former Baltimore mayor Martin OMalley, now a potential

presidential candidate.

He said in a blog post on the Marshall Project page The drug war began it, certainly, but the stake

through the heart of police procedure in Baltimore was Martin OMalley3. He destroyed police work in some real respects. Whatever was left of it when he took over the

police department, if there were two bricks together that were the suggestion of an edifice that you could have called meaningful police work, he found a way to pull them apart.

https://www.themarshallproject.org/2015/04/29/david-simon-on-baltimore-s-anguish?utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share-tools&utm_source=twitter&utm_content=post-top

Thanks for posting that. Very interesting. I agree partly with his conclusion that softening up drug policies will help curbsome of the policing problems. But only marijuana. Legalizing anything harder than that is insanity. I've lived in the drug culture (mostly on the recovery side) since the early 80's and

I've buried countless friends.

But legalize pot. It's relatively harmless. Give the people their pot but draw a hard line on

coke, heroin, and the rest of the hard stuff.

You buried all your friends while drugs were illegal. The ready supply and availability of drugs is always there, having drugs be illegal only serves to crimalize addictive behavior and line the pockets of drug cartels.

I think it's implicit within my statement that a lot more would be buried if hard drugs were legalized.

Evidence shows otherwise.

 

[RCon]

Slave families were literally broken up by the slave trade. The entire concept of a traditional 2-parent family was either discouraged or outright prohibited. You don't think that might have had any impact?

There has been no slavery for well over 100 years. I bet if I looked it up, I'd see that black kids born to unwed mothers is way higher now than it was 50 years ago. Stop blaming slavery.

Swing and a miss! The birthrate for unmarried black women is actually the lowest its been in fifty years. See the second chart here.

Maybe since you were so hilariously wrong here you should consider the possibility that there's some information and perspective that you're lacking?

Either:

- I'm reading the chart wrong.

- You're reading the chart wrong.

- I don't understand what statistic you're trying to convey.

What does the chart show, exactly?

No worries. Takes a while to catch up on all the replies, sometimes.

 

[TheIronSheik]

The Orioles game (the "Free Game of the Day") is blacked out locally on mlb.tv.

:facepalm:

How is Philly in the blackout zone?

You're in the blackout zone too?

Apparently. But I can watch it on the MLB app on my iPhone. Weird.

I'm blacked out, but it's letting me listen to it

I'm watching it. It's pretty crazy. 3 run home run by the O's and all you hear are the cheers of the dugout. Weird that they still announce the batters.

interesting.. I wonder if they are using the giant scoreboard

Seems like a good day to train the new guy on it.

 

[jonessed]

During the riots, a young black dude was interviewed and asked about why he thought this was happening. He basically said that all the after school rec centers had been closed, the basketball courts were unplayable, and there was just nothing for the kids to do. While I don't think his points = rioting, there is a lot of truth to the fact that the city has balanced it's budget to some extent on the backs of the poor the last decade or so. Funding for activities that we all likely agree are great for any race have been cut or removed. Poor kid's parents also probably don't have the economic means to provide sufficient activities for their kids, and thus the kids get frustrated.

Another way in that the issue at hand is at least as large a poverty issue (likely mostly a poverty issue) as it is a race issue.

And I concur that there's been some great discussion ITT.

Maryland is a very high tax state. Where is all the money going?

 

[MattFancy]

During the riots, a young black dude was interviewed and asked about why he thought this was happening. He basically said that all the after school rec centers had been closed, the basketball courts were unplayable, and there was just nothing for the kids to do. While I don't think his points = rioting, there is a lot of truth to the fact that the city has balanced it's budget to some extent on the backs of the poor the last decade or so. Funding for activities that we all likely agree are great for any race have been cut or removed. Poor kid's parents also probably don't have the economic means to provide sufficient activities for their kids, and thus the kids get frustrated.

Another way in that the issue at hand is at least as large a poverty issue (likely mostly a poverty issue) as it is a race issue.

And I concur that there's been some great discussion ITT.

Maryland is a very high tax state. Where is all the money going?

As a resident, I've always wondered that. We even recently started letting casinos being built to bring in more revenue.

Now admittedly, Maryland does have one of, if not the best school systems in the country. So assuming some of the tax money goes there. But that doesn't account for the rest.

 

[Parrothead]

The Orioles game (the "Free Game of the Day") is blacked out locally on mlb.tv.

:facepalm:

How is Philly in the blackout zone?

You're in the blackout zone too?

Apparently. But I can watch it on the MLB app on my iPhone. Weird.

I'm blacked out, but it's letting me listen to it

I'm watching it. It's pretty crazy. 3 run home run by the O's and all you hear are the cheers of the dugout. Weird that they still announce the batters.

interesting.. I wonder if they are using the giant scoreboard

Seems like a good day to train the new guy on it.

I wonder if they play the player's walk up songs?

 

[James Daulton]

During the riots, a young black dude was interviewed and asked about why he thought this was happening. He basically said that all the after school rec centers had been closed, the basketball courts were unplayable, and there was just nothing for the kids to do. While I don't think his points = rioting, there is a lot of truth to the fact that the city has balanced it's budget to some extent on the backs of the poor the last decade or so. Funding for activities that we all likely agree are great for any race have been cut or removed. Poor kid's parents also probably don't have the economic means to provide sufficient activities for their kids, and thus the kids get frustrated.

Another way in that the issue at hand is at least as large a poverty issue (likely mostly a poverty issue) as it is a race issue.

And I concur that there's been some great discussion ITT.

Maryland is a very high tax state. Where is all the money going?

As with many major cities I think the largest issue is pension funding.

 

[TheIronSheik]

The Orioles game (the "Free Game of the Day") is blacked out locally on mlb.tv.

:facepalm:

How is Philly in the blackout zone?

You're in the blackout zone too?

Apparently. But I can watch it on the MLB app on my iPhone. Weird.

I'm blacked out, but it's letting me listen to it

I'm watching it. It's pretty crazy. 3 run home run by the O's and all you hear are the cheers of the dugout. Weird that they still announce the batters.

interesting.. I wonder if they are using the giant scoreboard

Seems like a good day to train the new guy on it.

I wonder if they play the player's walk up songs?

They are not playing any music. Just announcing the players.

 

[MattFancy]

The Orioles game (the "Free Game of the Day") is blacked out locally on mlb.tv.

:facepalm:

How is Philly in the blackout zone?

You're in the blackout zone too?

Apparently. But I can watch it on the MLB app on my iPhone. Weird.

I'm blacked out, but it's letting me listen to it

I'm watching it. It's pretty crazy. 3 run home run by the O's and all you hear are the cheers of the dugout. Weird that they still announce the batters.

interesting.. I wonder if they are using the giant scoreboard

Seems like a good day to train the new guy on it.

I wonder if they play the player's walk up songs?

They are not playing any music. Just announcing the players.

Are you sure? I thought I heard music when the O's players were batting

 

[Parrothead]

maybe it is the band from the riots

 

[TheIronSheik]

Are you sure? I thought I heard music when the O's players were batting

I've got the game on and I don't hear any music playing.

 

[Sweet J]

Slave families were literally broken up by the slave trade. The entire concept of a traditional 2-parent family was either discouraged or outright prohibited. You don't think that might have had any impact?

There has been no slavery for well over 100 years. I bet if I looked it up, I'd see that black kids born to unwed mothers is way higher now than it was 50 years ago. Stop blaming slavery.

Swing and a miss! The birthrate for unmarried black women is actually the lowest its been in fifty years. See the second chart here.

Maybe since you were so hilariously wrong here you should consider the possibility that there's some information and perspective that you're lacking?

Either:

- I'm reading the chart wrong.

- You're reading the chart wrong.

- I don't understand what statistic you're trying to convey.

What does the chart show, exactly?

No worries. Takes a while to catch up on all the replies, sometimes.

He pretty much replied.

 

[MattFancy]

Are you sure? I thought I heard music when the O's players were batting

I've got the game on and I don't hear any music playing.

I thought when I was listening earlier I heard them play music when De Aza came up.

I do think it's weird they are announcing the players though

 

[matttyl]

During the riots, a young black dude was interviewed and asked about why he thought this was happening. He basically said that all the after school rec centers had been closed, the basketball courts were unplayable, and there was just nothing for the kids to do. While I don't think his points = rioting, there is a lot of truth to the fact that the city has balanced it's budget to some extent on the backs of the poor the last decade or so. Funding for activities that we all likely agree are great for any race have been cut or removed. Poor kid's parents also probably don't have the economic means to provide sufficient activities for their kids, and thus the kids get frustrated.

Another way in that the issue at hand is at least as large a poverty issue (likely mostly a poverty issue) as it is a race issue.

And I concur that there's been some great discussion ITT.

Maryland is a very high tax state. Where is all the money going?

As with many major cities I think the largest issue is pension funding.

Yeah, that's a huge number for a lot of states. In 1960 the US life expectancy was less than 70. Now it's like 79. If you retired at 65, pensions used to assume a 5 year payout which is now 3x that.

 

[Sweet J]

I don't know enough about welfare to know if it discourages marriage, sorry.

As I understand it in basic terms - it's FAR easier for a single mother to obtain it.

Many economists think the War on poverty act is the single biggest cause for the destruction of the black family. Look it up but there are MANY articles like this excerpt around.

The most devastating by-product of the mushrooming welfare state was the corrosive effect it had (along with powerful cultural phenomena such as the feminist and Black Power movements) on American family life, particularly in the black community.
 As provisions in welfare laws offered ever-increasing economic incentives for shunning marriage and avoiding the formation of two-parent families, illegitimacy rates rose dramatically.

For the next few decades, means-tested welfare programs such as food stamps, public housing, Medicaid, day care, and Temporary Assistance to Needy Families penalized marriage. A mother generally received far more money from welfare if she was single rather than married. Once she took a husband, her benefits were instantly reduced by roughly 10 to 20 percent. As a Cato Institute study noted, welfare programs for the poor incentivize the very behaviors that are most likely to perpetuate poverty.[2] Another Cato report observes:

“Of course women do not get pregnant just to get welfare benefits.... But, by removing the economic consequences of out-of-wedlock birth, welfare has removed a major incentive to avoid such pregnancies. A teenager looking around at her friends and neighbors is liable to see several who have given birth out-of- wedlock. When she sees that they have suffered few visible consequences ... she is less inclined to modify her own behavior to prevent pregnancy.... Current welfare policies seem to be designed with an appalling lack of concern for their impact on out-of-wedlock births. Indeed, Medicaid programs in 11 states actually provide infertility treatments to single women on welfare.”
The marriage penalties that are embedded in welfare programs can be particularly severe if a woman on public assistance weds a man who is employed in a low-paying job. As a FamilyScholars.org report puts it: “Whena couple's income nears the limits prescribed by Medicaid, a few extra dollars in income cause thousands of dollars in benefits to be lost. What all of this means is that the two most important routes out of poverty—marriage and work—are heavily taxed under the current U.S. system.”[3]

Yeah, that's pretty much where I am.

If they haven't already, I'd love the guys from "Freakonomics" to take a stab at this issue. Or Nate Silver. I think of them, generally, as non-partisan and non-agenda-having.

 

[njherdfan]

I don't know enough about welfare to know if it discourages marriage, sorry.

As I understand it in basic terms - it's FAR easier for a single mother to obtain it.

Many economists think the War on poverty act is the single biggest cause for the destruction of the black family. Look it up but there are MANY articles like this excerpt around.

The most devastating by-product of the mushrooming welfare state was the corrosive effect it had (along with powerful cultural phenomena such as the feminist and Black Power movements) on American family life, particularly in the black community.
 As provisions in welfare laws offered ever-increasing economic incentives for shunning marriage and avoiding the formation of two-parent families, illegitimacy rates rose dramatically.

For the next few decades, means-tested welfare programs such as food stamps, public housing, Medicaid, day care, and Temporary Assistance to Needy Families penalized marriage. A mother generally received far more money from welfare if she was single rather than married. Once she took a husband, her benefits were instantly reduced by roughly 10 to 20 percent. As a Cato Institute study noted, welfare programs for the poor incentivize the very behaviors that are most likely to perpetuate poverty.[2] Another Cato report observes:

“Of course women do not get pregnant just to get welfare benefits.... But, by removing the economic consequences of out-of-wedlock birth, welfare has removed a major incentive to avoid such pregnancies. A teenager looking around at her friends and neighbors is liable to see several who have given birth out-of- wedlock. When she sees that they have suffered few visible consequences ... she is less inclined to modify her own behavior to prevent pregnancy.... Current welfare policies seem to be designed with an appalling lack of concern for their impact on out-of-wedlock births. Indeed, Medicaid programs in 11 states actually provide infertility treatments to single women on welfare.”
The marriage penalties that are embedded in welfare programs can be particularly severe if a woman on public assistance weds a man who is employed in a low-paying job. As a FamilyScholars.org report puts it: “Whena couple's income nears the limits prescribed by Medicaid, a few extra dollars in income cause thousands of dollars in benefits to be lost. What all of this means is that the two most important routes out of poverty—marriage and work—are heavily taxed under the current U.S. system.”[3]

Yeah, that's pretty much where I am.

If they haven't already, I'd love the guys from "Freakonomics" to take a stab at this issue. Or Nate Silver. I think of them, generally, as non-partisan and non-agenda-having.

FWIW, and I haven't studied any of these issues at all, I wouldn't really rely on Cato Institute studies on the impact of government programs.

 

[TripItUp]

now we're talking root cause...although I still think a lot of the root cause is jobs based.

People who believe they have a legitimate economic future, don't resort to rioting and a life of crime.

 

[TobiasFunke]

I don't know enough about welfare to know if it discourages marriage, sorry.

As I understand it in basic terms - it's FAR easier for a single mother to obtain it.

Many economists think the War on poverty act is the single biggest cause for the destruction of the black family. Look it up but there are MANY articles like this excerpt around.

The most devastating by-product of the mushrooming welfare state was the corrosive effect it had (along with powerful cultural phenomena such as the feminist and Black Power movements) on American family life, particularly in the black community.
 As provisions in welfare laws offered ever-increasing economic incentives for shunning marriage and avoiding the formation of two-parent families, illegitimacy rates rose dramatically.

For the next few decades, means-tested welfare programs such as food stamps, public housing, Medicaid, day care, and Temporary Assistance to Needy Families penalized marriage. A mother generally received far more money from welfare if she was single rather than married. Once she took a husband, her benefits were instantly reduced by roughly 10 to 20 percent. As a Cato Institute study noted, welfare programs for the poor incentivize the very behaviors that are most likely to perpetuate poverty.[2] Another Cato report observes:

“Of course women do not get pregnant just to get welfare benefits.... But, by removing the economic consequences of out-of-wedlock birth, welfare has removed a major incentive to avoid such pregnancies. A teenager looking around at her friends and neighbors is liable to see several who have given birth out-of- wedlock. When she sees that they have suffered few visible consequences ... she is less inclined to modify her own behavior to prevent pregnancy.... Current welfare policies seem to be designed with an appalling lack of concern for their impact on out-of-wedlock births. Indeed, Medicaid programs in 11 states actually provide infertility treatments to single women on welfare.”
The marriage penalties that are embedded in welfare programs can be particularly severe if a woman on public assistance weds a man who is employed in a low-paying job. As a FamilyScholars.org report puts it: “Whena couple's income nears the limits prescribed by Medicaid, a few extra dollars in income cause thousands of dollars in benefits to be lost. What all of this means is that the two most important routes out of poverty—marriage and work—are heavily taxed under the current U.S. system.”[3]

Yeah, that's pretty much where I am.

If they haven't already, I'd love the guys from "Freakonomics" to take a stab at this issue. Or Nate Silver. I think of them, generally, as non-partisan and non-agenda-having.

FWIW, and I haven't studied any of these issues at all, I wouldn't really rely on Cato Institute studies on the impact of government programs.

Are you suggesting that someone who says that feminism and the black power movement had a "corrosive effect" on American family life might not have a reliable, impartial approach when it comes to these issues?

 

[rockaction]

I don't know enough about welfare to know if it discourages marriage, sorry.

As I understand it in basic terms - it's FAR easier for a single mother to obtain it.

Many economists think the War on poverty act is the single biggest cause for the destruction of the black family. Look it up but there are MANY articles like this excerpt around.

The most devastating by-product of the mushrooming welfare state was the corrosive effect it had (along with powerful cultural phenomena such as the feminist and Black Power movements) on American family life, particularly in the black community.
 As provisions in welfare laws offered ever-increasing economic incentives for shunning marriage and avoiding the formation of two-parent families, illegitimacy rates rose dramatically.

For the next few decades, means-tested welfare programs such as food stamps, public housing, Medicaid, day care, and Temporary Assistance to Needy Families penalized marriage. A mother generally received far more money from welfare if she was single rather than married. Once she took a husband, her benefits were instantly reduced by roughly 10 to 20 percent. As a Cato Institute study noted, welfare programs for the poor incentivize the very behaviors that are most likely to perpetuate poverty.[2] Another Cato report observes:

“Of course women do not get pregnant just to get welfare benefits.... But, by removing the economic consequences of out-of-wedlock birth, welfare has removed a major incentive to avoid such pregnancies. A teenager looking around at her friends and neighbors is liable to see several who have given birth out-of- wedlock. When she sees that they have suffered few visible consequences ... she is less inclined to modify her own behavior to prevent pregnancy.... Current welfare policies seem to be designed with an appalling lack of concern for their impact on out-of-wedlock births. Indeed, Medicaid programs in 11 states actually provide infertility treatments to single women on welfare.”
The marriage penalties that are embedded in welfare programs can be particularly severe if a woman on public assistance weds a man who is employed in a low-paying job. As a FamilyScholars.org report puts it: “Whena couple's income nears the limits prescribed by Medicaid, a few extra dollars in income cause thousands of dollars in benefits to be lost. What all of this means is that the two most important routes out of poverty—marriage and work—are heavily taxed under the current U.S. system.”[3]

Yeah, that's pretty much where I am.

If they haven't already, I'd love the guys from "Freakonomics" to take a stab at this issue. Or Nate Silver. I think of them, generally, as non-partisan and non-agenda-having.

FWIW, and I haven't studied any of these issues at all, I wouldn't really rely on Cato Institute studies on the impact of government programs.

No worse than trusting an ACLU narrative about property rights and segregation. It's the argument, not the organization.

 

[TheIronSheik]

Are you sure? I thought I heard music when the O's players were batting

I've got the game on and I don't hear any music playing.

I thought when I was listening earlier I heard them play music when De Aza came up.

I do think it's weird they are announcing the players though

It's weird. It sounds like on some players they play a clip of something, not sure if it's music or not. But it doesn't seem to be for everyone. Odd.

 

[rockaction]

I don't know enough about welfare to know if it discourages marriage, sorry.

As I understand it in basic terms - it's FAR easier for a single mother to obtain it.

Many economists think the War on poverty act is the single biggest cause for the destruction of the black family. Look it up but there are MANY articles like this excerpt around.

The most devastating by-product of the mushrooming welfare state was the corrosive effect it had (along with powerful cultural phenomena such as the feminist and Black Power movements) on American family life, particularly in the black community.
 As provisions in welfare laws offered ever-increasing economic incentives for shunning marriage and avoiding the formation of two-parent families, illegitimacy rates rose dramatically.

For the next few decades, means-tested welfare programs such as food stamps, public housing, Medicaid, day care, and Temporary Assistance to Needy Families penalized marriage. A mother generally received far more money from welfare if she was single rather than married. Once she took a husband, her benefits were instantly reduced by roughly 10 to 20 percent. As a Cato Institute study noted, welfare programs for the poor incentivize the very behaviors that are most likely to perpetuate poverty.[2] Another Cato report observes:

“Of course women do not get pregnant just to get welfare benefits.... But, by removing the economic consequences of out-of-wedlock birth, welfare has removed a major incentive to avoid such pregnancies. A teenager looking around at her friends and neighbors is liable to see several who have given birth out-of- wedlock. When she sees that they have suffered few visible consequences ... she is less inclined to modify her own behavior to prevent pregnancy.... Current welfare policies seem to be designed with an appalling lack of concern for their impact on out-of-wedlock births. Indeed, Medicaid programs in 11 states actually provide infertility treatments to single women on welfare.”
The marriage penalties that are embedded in welfare programs can be particularly severe if a woman on public assistance weds a man who is employed in a low-paying job. As a FamilyScholars.org report puts it: “Whena couple's income nears the limits prescribed by Medicaid, a few extra dollars in income cause thousands of dollars in benefits to be lost. What all of this means is that the two most important routes out of poverty—marriage and work—are heavily taxed under the current U.S. system.”[3]

Yeah, that's pretty much where I am.

If they haven't already, I'd love the guys from "Freakonomics" to take a stab at this issue. Or Nate Silver. I think of them, generally, as non-partisan and non-agenda-having.

FWIW, and I haven't studied any of these issues at all, I wouldn't really rely on Cato Institute studies on the impact of government programs.

Are you suggesting that someone who says that feminism and the black power movement had a "corrosive effect" on American family life might not have a reliable, impartial approach when it comes to these issues?

No, it's an article citing a Cato report, where the Cato report is the crux of his discontent. Big difference.

 

[PinkydaPimp]

I don't know enough about welfare to know if it discourages marriage, sorry.

As I understand it in basic terms - it's FAR easier for a single mother to obtain it.

Many economists think the War on poverty act is the single biggest cause for the destruction of the black family. Look it up but there are MANY articles like this excerpt around.

The most devastating by-product of the mushrooming welfare state was the corrosive effect it had (along with powerful cultural phenomena such as the feminist and Black Power movements) on American family life, particularly in the black community.
 As provisions in welfare laws offered ever-increasing economic incentives for shunning marriage and avoiding the formation of two-parent families, illegitimacy rates rose dramatically.

For the next few decades, means-tested welfare programs such as food stamps, public housing, Medicaid, day care, and Temporary Assistance to Needy Families penalized marriage. A mother generally received far more money from welfare if she was single rather than married. Once she took a husband, her benefits were instantly reduced by roughly 10 to 20 percent. As a Cato Institute study noted, welfare programs for the poor incentivize the very behaviors that are most likely to perpetuate poverty.[2] Another Cato report observes:

“Of course women do not get pregnant just to get welfare benefits.... But, by removing the economic consequences of out-of-wedlock birth, welfare has removed a major incentive to avoid such pregnancies. A teenager looking around at her friends and neighbors is liable to see several who have given birth out-of- wedlock. When she sees that they have suffered few visible consequences ... she is less inclined to modify her own behavior to prevent pregnancy.... Current welfare policies seem to be designed with an appalling lack of concern for their impact on out-of-wedlock births. Indeed, Medicaid programs in 11 states actually provide infertility treatments to single women on welfare.”
The marriage penalties that are embedded in welfare programs can be particularly severe if a woman on public assistance weds a man who is employed in a low-paying job. As a FamilyScholars.org report puts it: “Whena couple's income nears the limits prescribed by Medicaid, a few extra dollars in income cause thousands of dollars in benefits to be lost. What all of this means is that the two most important routes out of poverty—marriage and work—are heavily taxed under the current U.S. system.”[3]

Yeah, that's pretty much where I am.

If they haven't already, I'd love the guys from "Freakonomics" to take a stab at this issue. Or Nate Silver. I think of them, generally, as non-partisan and non-agenda-having.

They have wrote a little about this. http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/how-baltimores-young-black-men-are-boxed-in/

Would love to see more.

 

[TobiasFunke]

now we're talking root cause...although I still think a lot of the root cause is jobs based.

The article I posted this morning attempts to address root cause, focusing on a variety of factors but particularly "redlining" and other discriminatory housing/lending practices over the course of the 20th and into the 21st century (Wells Fargo and Countrywide have agreed to huge settlements in lending discrimination suits just within the last few years) and how those practices isolated and confined the black community. Recommended reading if you have the time and inclination.

 

[Loan Sharks]

I don't know enough about welfare to know if it discourages marriage, sorry.

As I understand it in basic terms - it's FAR easier for a single mother to obtain it.

Many economists think the War on poverty act is the single biggest cause for the destruction of the black family. Look it up but there are MANY articles like this excerpt around.

The most devastating by-product of the mushrooming welfare state was the corrosive effect it had (along with powerful cultural phenomena such as the feminist and Black Power movements) on American family life, particularly in the black community.
 As provisions in welfare laws offered ever-increasing economic incentives for shunning marriage and avoiding the formation of two-parent families, illegitimacy rates rose dramatically.

For the next few decades, means-tested welfare programs such as food stamps, public housing, Medicaid, day care, and Temporary Assistance to Needy Families penalized marriage. A mother generally received far more money from welfare if she was single rather than married. Once she took a husband, her benefits were instantly reduced by roughly 10 to 20 percent. As a Cato Institute study noted, welfare programs for the poor incentivize the very behaviors that are most likely to perpetuate poverty.[2] Another Cato report observes:

“Of course women do not get pregnant just to get welfare benefits.... But, by removing the economic consequences of out-of-wedlock birth, welfare has removed a major incentive to avoid such pregnancies. A teenager looking around at her friends and neighbors is liable to see several who have given birth out-of- wedlock. When she sees that they have suffered few visible consequences ... she is less inclined to modify her own behavior to prevent pregnancy.... Current welfare policies seem to be designed with an appalling lack of concern for their impact on out-of-wedlock births. Indeed, Medicaid programs in 11 states actually provide infertility treatments to single women on welfare.”
The marriage penalties that are embedded in welfare programs can be particularly severe if a woman on public assistance weds a man who is employed in a low-paying job. As a FamilyScholars.org report puts it: “Whena couple's income nears the limits prescribed by Medicaid, a few extra dollars in income cause thousands of dollars in benefits to be lost. What all of this means is that the two most important routes out of poverty—marriage and work—are heavily taxed under the current U.S. system.”[3]

Yeah, that's pretty much where I am.

If they haven't already, I'd love the guys from "Freakonomics" to take a stab at this issue. Or Nate Silver. I think of them, generally, as non-partisan and non-agenda-having.

FWIW, and I haven't studied any of these issues at all, I wouldn't really rely on Cato Institute studies on the impact of government programs.

Are you suggesting that someone who says that feminism and the black power movement had a "corrosive effect" on American family life might not have a reliable, impartial approach when it comes to these issues?

No I am suggesting you are lazy because there are hundreds of articles and I specifically stated to look up one in my post. I didn't post a link I just picked one that had a nice summary of the position.

Oh and feminism leading to more independent self sufficient women not needing marriage doesn't lead to less marriage?

 

[TobiasFunke]

I don't know enough about welfare to know if it discourages marriage, sorry.

As I understand it in basic terms - it's FAR easier for a single mother to obtain it.

Many economists think the War on poverty act is the single biggest cause for the destruction of the black family. Look it up but there are MANY articles like this excerpt around.

The most devastating by-product of the mushrooming welfare state was the corrosive effect it had (along with powerful cultural phenomena such as the feminist and Black Power movements) on American family life, particularly in the black community.
 As provisions in welfare laws offered ever-increasing economic incentives for shunning marriage and avoiding the formation of two-parent families, illegitimacy rates rose dramatically.

For the next few decades, means-tested welfare programs such as food stamps, public housing, Medicaid, day care, and Temporary Assistance to Needy Families penalized marriage. A mother generally received far more money from welfare if she was single rather than married. Once she took a husband, her benefits were instantly reduced by roughly 10 to 20 percent. As a Cato Institute study noted, welfare programs for the poor incentivize the very behaviors that are most likely to perpetuate poverty.[2] Another Cato report observes:

“Of course women do not get pregnant just to get welfare benefits.... But, by removing the economic consequences of out-of-wedlock birth, welfare has removed a major incentive to avoid such pregnancies. A teenager looking around at her friends and neighbors is liable to see several who have given birth out-of- wedlock. When she sees that they have suffered few visible consequences ... she is less inclined to modify her own behavior to prevent pregnancy.... Current welfare policies seem to be designed with an appalling lack of concern for their impact on out-of-wedlock births. Indeed, Medicaid programs in 11 states actually provide infertility treatments to single women on welfare.”
The marriage penalties that are embedded in welfare programs can be particularly severe if a woman on public assistance weds a man who is employed in a low-paying job. As a FamilyScholars.org report puts it: “Whena couple's income nears the limits prescribed by Medicaid, a few extra dollars in income cause thousands of dollars in benefits to be lost. What all of this means is that the two most important routes out of poverty—marriage and work—are heavily taxed under the current U.S. system.”[3]

Yeah, that's pretty much where I am.

If they haven't already, I'd love the guys from "Freakonomics" to take a stab at this issue. Or Nate Silver. I think of them, generally, as non-partisan and non-agenda-having.

FWIW, and I haven't studied any of these issues at all, I wouldn't really rely on Cato Institute studies on the impact of government programs.

Are you suggesting that someone who says that feminism and the black power movement had a "corrosive effect" on American family life might not have a reliable, impartial approach when it comes to these issues?

No I am suggesting you are lazy because there are hundreds of articles and I specifically stated to look up one in my post. I didn't post a link I just picked one that had a nice summary of the position.

Oh and feminism leading to more independent self sufficient women not needing marriage doesn't lead to less marriage?

My sarcastic question as to what was being suggested was not directed at you. And rockaction already pointed out that the quote to which I referred was different than the Cato Institute data on which the article relied. But thanks for offering your perspective!

Your overly simplistic view of what constitutes "feminism" is interesting. And marriage and "American family life" are not the same thing, Pat Robertson. Again, thanks for your perspective.

 

[Hang 10]

Stewart Goes Off: Maybe We Should’ve Cared About Baltimore Before It Was ‘On Fire’

I'm not going to watch because I can't stand John Stewart but that does that even mean? Who should have cared? Again, Baltimore is the biggest city in our country's most liberal state. Why haven't all the social programs worked there?

 

[Doctor Detroit]

During the riots, a young black dude was interviewed and asked about why he thought this was happening. He basically said that all the after school rec centers had been closed, the basketball courts were unplayable, and there was just nothing for the kids to do. While I don't think his points = rioting, there is a lot of truth to the fact that the city has balanced it's budget to some extent on the backs of the poor the last decade or so. Funding for activities that we all likely agree are great for any race have been cut or removed. Poor kid's parents also probably don't have the economic means to provide sufficient activities for their kids, and thus the kids get frustrated.

Another way in that the issue at hand is at least as large a poverty issue (likely mostly a poverty issue) as it is a race issue.

And I concur that there's been some great discussion ITT.

Maryland is a very high tax state. Where is all the money going?

As with many major cities I think the largest issue is pension funding.

Has much less to do with pensions than it does a eroding tax base and the fact it's an old port city with spotty infrastructure. In fact the pensions aren't the problem at all, it's the cost of health care for retired city workers that is more of a burden. Baltimore also fumbled the new casino estimates and they have way too many schools. Schools alone are operating at a $50mm deficit.