Baltimore: The Next Ferguson? (2 Viewers)

[SaintsInDome2006]

Humiliation complete

Two out of 3 family members are smiling.

Kid will never live it down. I'm guessing his attendance at school was spotty but now... he should probably just leave town.

 

[General Tso]

Humiliation complete

That's awesome. Poor kid. Totally emasculated.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

I am pretty sure Niecy Nash will be playing the Mom in the Lifetime (or CC) biopic.

 

[General Tso]

Another question I have is when did passenger 2(the one who claims Gray harmed himself)in the van get put inside?

I think he got in at stop 2 of 3, and was in the van for 5 minutes of the half hour ride. But if what he says is true, Gray was still healthy enough to be thrashing himself around. That's why his testimony is key to all this.

 

[George Jefferson Airplane]

So the cops are going with the narrative that he broke his own neck?

Actually one of my most liberal law enforcement friends came up with this same conclusion before the riots started. Mine was a hard brake and him flying around in the back, both might be correct.

 

[General Tso]

I am pretty sure Niecy Nash will be playing the Mom in the Lifetime (or CC) biopic.

I love the story here, but oh my God the press has gotten ridiculous with its coverage. Just give the Mom her own tv show already.

 

[General Tso]

So the cops are going with the narrative that he broke his own neck?

Actually one of my most liberal law enforcement friends came up with this same conclusion before the riots started. Mine was a hard brake and him flying around in the back, both might be correct.

people have no idea how easy it is to break a neck. Didn't a football player suffer a serious neck injury head butting a wall after a touchdown?

 

[General Tso]

http://www.wjla.com/articles/2015/04/breaking-news-no-evidence-found-that-freddie-gray-s-death-was-result-of-police-who-arrested-him-prob.html

BALTIMORE, Md. (WJLA) -- An investigation into the death of Baltimore resident Freddie Gray has found no evidence that his fatal injuries were caused during the videotaped arrest and interaction with police officers, according to multiple law enforcement sources.

The sources spoke to ABC7 News after being briefed on the findings of a police report tuned over to prosecutors on Thursday as well as preliminary findings made by the medical examiner's office.

Sources said the medical examiner found Gray's catastrophic injury was caused when he slammed into the back of the police transport van, apparently breaking his neck; a head injury he sustained matches a bolt in the back of the van.

Details surrounding exactly what caused Gray to slam into the back of the van was unclear. The officer driving the van has yet to give a statement to authorities. Its also unclear whether Grays head injury was voluntary or was result of some other action.

Does anyone know where the burden of proof is on this? Does the prosecutor need proof that the officers actually caused the injury by slamming the brakes short or giving a "rough ride" ? Or is it enough that Gray suffered fatal injuries while in custody and those injuries could have been prevented had the officers better restrained him?

This becomes a negligence, civil inquiry at this point, not criminal. So the BOP is preponderance of the evidence.

If they try to get to criminal negligence or some sort of manslaughter they are going to have an impossible climb.

It seems like quite a leap to assume it is impossible to show negligence without having any idea what actually happened when the suspect was placed in the van nor what the usual practice is for putting suspects in vans.

Say for example the evidence reveals that the guy was not secured at all, that his injuries were caused by the fact that he was not secured, that police guidance mandates that suspects placed in vans like this one be secured, and that virtually all police follow that procedure when placing suspects in vans. That seems like a pretty easy involuntary manslaughter case to make.

Ok, I agree on the negligence. You may know more on the subject than me. I think the PD had just come out with regulations, like that week (per tv news) which required arrestees be strapped in. I'm sure that will be an issue. But for it to be criminal negligence or manslaughter, doesn't have to rise to some level of gross willfulness? Negligence I see, but how do you get to proving that they were so negligent they meant to harm him in some way (or that they should have known it was likely to happen)?

By the way, the coroner (M.E.) is not above politics or protecting the cops in some cities.

I believe the new procedures for seat belting prisoners came out only a couple days prior.

 

[TobiasFunke]

http://www.wjla.com/articles/2015/04/breaking-news-no-evidence-found-that-freddie-gray-s-death-was-result-of-police-who-arrested-him-prob.html

BALTIMORE, Md. (WJLA) -- An investigation into the death of Baltimore resident Freddie Gray has found no evidence that his fatal injuries were caused during the videotaped arrest and interaction with police officers, according to multiple law enforcement sources.

The sources spoke to ABC7 News after being briefed on the findings of a police report tuned over to prosecutors on Thursday as well as preliminary findings made by the medical examiner's office.

Sources said the medical examiner found Gray's catastrophic injury was caused when he slammed into the back of the police transport van, apparently breaking his neck; a head injury he sustained matches a bolt in the back of the van.

Details surrounding exactly what caused Gray to slam into the back of the van was unclear. The officer driving the van has yet to give a statement to authorities. It’s also unclear whether Gray’s head injury was voluntary or was result of some other action.

Does anyone know where the burden of proof is on this? Does the prosecutor need proof that the officers actually caused the injury by slamming the brakes short or giving a "rough ride" ? Or is it enough that Gray suffered fatal injuries while in custody and those injuries could have been prevented had the officers better restrained him?

This becomes a negligence, civil inquiry at this point, not criminal. So the BOP is preponderance of the evidence.

If they try to get to criminal negligence or some sort of manslaughter they are going to have an impossible climb.

It seems like quite a leap to assume it is impossible to show negligence without having any idea what actually happened when the suspect was placed in the van nor what the usual practice is for putting suspects in vans.

Say for example the evidence reveals that the guy was not secured at all, that his injuries were caused by the fact that he was not secured, that police guidance mandates that suspects placed in vans like this one be secured, and that virtually all police follow that procedure when placing suspects in vans. That seems like a pretty easy involuntary manslaughter case to make.

Ok, I agree on the negligence. You may know more on the subject than me. I think the PD had just come out with regulations, like that week (per tv news) which required arrestees be strapped in. I'm sure that will be an issue. But for it to be criminal negligence or manslaughter, doesn't have to rise to some level of gross willfulness? Negligence I see, but how do you get to proving that they were so negligent they meant to harm him in some way (or that they should have known it was likely to happen)?

By the way, the coroner (M.E.) is not above politics or protecting the cops in some cities.

The idea of involuntary manslaughter is that you don't need to show willfullness- in layman's terms simply acting like an irresponsible idiot is enough. Or if you prefer legalese, in Maryland you have to show that gross negligence, i.e. a " gross departure from what would be the conduct of an ordinary, careful or prudent person," caused the death

No idea if this gets there, obviously. Would depend not just on the standard practices of cops and their rules but also on whether the injury can be tied to the guy not being properly secured.

 

[The Big Guy]

I know it shouldn't matter, but is the coroner an AA? I am sure this is just a classic case of white paranoia, but having a non white coroner doing the autopsy would possibly help diffuse things if that is the final report.

 

[whiskey7]

Humiliation complete

Two out of 3 family members are smiling.

Kid will never live it down. I'm guessing his attendance at school was spotty but now... he should probably just leave town.

Glad you mentioned that. One of the things that has struck me about this is how young some of the people out there protesting/raising hell are. We're told part of the outrage is over a system that has failed them and/or lack of opportunity. Yet, some of these people screaming have not even given parts of the system a chance. I can listen to a 20-something (who applied him/herself and graduated HS but has since not been able to find meaningful employment he/she was qualified for) complain about a rigged system and/or lack of opportunity. But I don't have much time for punks who haven't even given the schooling in place an honest shot.

 

[TheIronSheik]

Just saw a stat from CNN -

Killed by police in 2014:

African American - 233

White - 414

Hispanic - 138

Asian - 15

Unreported Race - 311

 

[The_Man]

http://www.wjla.com/articles/2015/04/breaking-news-no-evidence-found-that-freddie-gray-s-death-was-result-of-police-who-arrested-him-prob.html

BALTIMORE, Md. (WJLA) -- An investigation into the death of Baltimore resident Freddie Gray has found no evidence that his fatal injuries were caused during the videotaped arrest and interaction with police officers, according to multiple law enforcement sources.

The sources spoke to ABC7 News after being briefed on the findings of a police report tuned over to prosecutors on Thursday as well as preliminary findings made by the medical examiner's office.

Sources said the medical examiner found Gray's catastrophic injury was caused when he slammed into the back of the police transport van, apparently breaking his neck; a head injury he sustained matches a bolt in the back of the van.

Details surrounding exactly what caused Gray to slam into the back of the van was unclear. The officer driving the van has yet to give a statement to authorities. It’s also unclear whether Gray’s head injury was voluntary or was result of some other action.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/baltimore-city/bs-md-ci-gray-investigation-completed-20150430-story.html

Maryland's chief medical examiner, Dr. David R. Fowler, said his office has not completed an autopsy or turned any documents over to police or prosecutors. He said homicide detectives had observed the examination, a routine practice.

"Our first report will be final, and will go directly to the State's Attorney's Office," Fowler said. He said his office was conducting one of its last examinations and anticipated results would be available "shortly."

 

[The_Man]

BTW, if you all like the Mayor, you'll definitely enjoy State's Attorney Mosby.

I was happy when she beat Bernstein. He got elected because his predecessor was a complete debacle, to the point that Baltimore turned against her to elect a tough-talking white guy. But he was all talk, as it turned out, and didn't do a very good job while also completely failing to make any kind of connection with the citizenry.

But she is in way over her head on this. She got elected primarily because she was the anti-Bernstein who utilized the name and electoral machine of her husband, a popular member of the Baltimore City Council, to win office. She's had a few stumbles already, nothing major, and seemed to be learning on the job - but this is going to be very tough for her.

 

[LarryAllen'sJockstrap]

So the cops are going with the narrative that he broke his own neck?

I can buy that.1. If he had sustained a broken neck and a 75% tear of his spinal column during the initial arrest/takedown, I doubt the officers would be able to throw in the back of any vehicle, unless they fail to notice he's basically an incapacitated sack of potatoes at that point.

2. Once in the vehicle, he became combative to the point they didn't initially restrain him, ended up pulling over and requesting assistance to shackle his legs. Again, a likely paralyzed guy with a broken neck doesn't do this. Maybe the cops are just that fiendish and the cover-up is already in-motion.

3. This is where it becomes conjecture. It sounds like he hit his head/neck on something in the vehicle. Could this have happened if the driver hit the brakes or too hard or took a turn to fast (even on purpose)? Sure, it could. It could also have been this kid trying to make some noise, or rough himself up and blame it on the cops and just hit himself in the wrong spot/position. Sounds as likely a scenario; doubt we'll ever know for sure.

 

[The Big Guy]

Just saw a stat from CNN -

Killed by police in 2014:

African American - 233

White - 414

Hispanic - 138

Asian - 15

Unreported Race - 311

This is one of the most useless stats without further details that there is. Not trashing you TIS, but unless they break this down to include some more details like how many were killed while charging at police with weapons, or how many were unarmed. What is this stat trying to prove? More white people were killed by police then any other? Should be more white people since they are the largest percentage of the population.

 

[Al O'Pecia]

Just saw a stat from CNN -

Killed by police in 2014:

African American - 233

White - 414

Hispanic - 138

Asian - 15

Unreported Race - 311

Yellow Privilege?

 

[cstu]

Just saw a stat from CNN -

Killed by police in 2014:

African American - 233

White - 414

Hispanic - 138

Asian - 15

Unreported Race - 311

Yellow Privilege?

No

 

[The_Man]

OK, so how did he crush his own voice box? Was that part of the same incident that nearly severed his spine?

 

[Passenger]

Just saw a stat from CNN -

Killed by police in 2014:

African American - 233

White - 414

Hispanic - 138

Asian - 15

Unreported Race - 311

Oops

 

[Passenger]

I know it shouldn't matter, but is the coroner an AA? I am sure this is just a classic case of white paranoia, but having a non white coroner doing the autopsy would possibly help diffuse things if that is the final report.

While we're at it let's demand a black judge, jury, court reporter and bailiff. I'm sure that's the answer. Good lord this is ridiculous.

 

[General Tso]

BTW, if you all like the Mayor, you'll definitely enjoy State's Attorney Mosby.

I was happy when she beat Bernstein. He got elected because his predecessor was a complete debacle, to the point that Baltimore turned against her to elect a tough-talking white guy. But he was all talk, as it turned out, and didn't do a very good job while also completely failing to make any kind of connection with the citizenry.

But she is in way over her head on this. She got elected primarily because she was the anti-Bernstein who utilized the name and electoral machine of her husband, a popular member of the Baltimore City Council, to win office. She's had a few stumbles already, nothing major, and seemed to be learning on the job - but this is going to be very tough for her.

The Liberals I heard on the radio are already complaining about her family ties to the police. Doesn't matter at this point. The mob here doesn't care about the truth. They don't want justice. They want revenge for the broader problem of over usage of force by police in recent years. As Rock Action said above, Freddie Gray is a proxy for long simmering anger.I posted her credentials earlier and I believe she is the perfect person to make this important call. She has qualities and experiences that favor the Left (black, Liberal background, husband is a local politician so she is tied to the community) and those that favor the Right (tough on crime, police background in her family).

I have to admit I am a little worried that she is young and in a politically elected role. It would take a lot of guts to not prosecute the police here, even if the evidence suggests that is the appropriate decision. It would probably jeopardize not only her career, but also her husband's. I predict she will charge the police with a set of medium level crimes (not murder) and let the courts decide the officers' fate.

 

[The_Man]

Just saw a stat from CNN -

Killed by police in 2014:

African American - 233

White - 414

Hispanic - 138

Asian - 15

Unreported Race - 311

Oops

Two things. Number 1, I am surprised to learn that cops killed 1,111 American last year.

Number 2, we know the race of 800 of those people. Since African-Americans make up 13% of the population, 104 cop-related deaths would equal their percentage of the overall population. Instead, African-Americans were killed by police at 2.5 times more than that.

Also, a proportionate basis, there would have been 616 killings of white people, who make up 77% of the population.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

http://www.wjla.com/articles/2015/04/breaking-news-no-evidence-found-that-freddie-gray-s-death-was-result-of-police-who-arrested-him-prob.html

BALTIMORE, Md. (WJLA) -- An investigation into the death of Baltimore resident Freddie Gray has found no evidence that his fatal injuries were caused during the videotaped arrest and interaction with police officers, according to multiple law enforcement sources.

The sources spoke to ABC7 News after being briefed on the findings of a police report tuned over to prosecutors on Thursday as well as preliminary findings made by the medical examiner's office.

Sources said the medical examiner found Gray's catastrophic injury was caused when he slammed into the back of the police transport van, apparently breaking his neck; a head injury he sustained matches a bolt in the back of the van.

Details surrounding exactly what caused Gray to slam into the back of the van was unclear. The officer driving the van has yet to give a statement to authorities. It’s also unclear whether Gray’s head injury was voluntary or was result of some other action.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/baltimore-city/bs-md-ci-gray-investigation-completed-20150430-story.html

Maryland's chief medical examiner, Dr. David R. Fowler, said his office has not completed an autopsy or turned any documents over to police or prosecutors. He said homicide detectives had observed the examination, a routine practice.

"Our first report will be final, and will go directly to the State's Attorney's Office," Fowler said. He said his office was conducting one of its last examinations and anticipated results would be available "shortly."

That's good. And there is probably more in there, leakers leak what they want to leak.

Isn't it also true that it might take up to 30-45 for a full medical report, because of blood and tissue (toxicology, pathology, etc.)? I read that somewhere, not sure if it's true, but if so like Ferguson this thing could simmer for weeks before the full truth comes out.

 

[General Tso]

OK, so how did he crush his own voice box? Was that part of the same incident that nearly severed his spine?

I heard a report that there is a horizontal pole / railing in the van. If he was thrashing around as reported it is conceivable he could have hit his neck on the pole? I can envision that injury not only causing a crushed voice box but also a broken neck.

 

[CBusAlex]

So I just read an article where they said they "sang" Take Me Out To The Ball Game" during the 7th inning stretch yesterday. And they also announced the official game attendance over the PA System as zero.

Caleb Joseph signs autographs for imaginary fans

Gary Thorne does his best Master's voice

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvU26k8Fsv0

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

I don't know if this has been posted already...

There was a discussion yesterday or day before about an internet rumor about there being a lawsuit involving Gray from just this month, a couple weeks before Gray's death. Well the Baltimore Sun looked into this and found there was indeed a lawsuit, but it related back to the prior lead paint lawsuit that he and his sister had been involved in.

The truth about Freddie Gray's 'pre-existing injury from car accident'... But court records examined Wednesday by The Baltimore Sun show the case had nothing to do with a car accident or a spine injury. Instead, they are connected to a lawsuit alleging that Gray and his sister were injured by exposure to lead paint.

Paperwork was filed in December allowing Gray and his sister, Fredericka to each collect an $18,000 payment from Peachtree Settlement Funding, records show. In exchange, Peachtree would have received a $108,439 annuity that was scheduled to be paid in $602 monthly installments between 2024 and 2039.

In her documents, Fredericka Gray checked "other" when asked to describe the type of accident. She also said that the date of the accident was "94/99" and that she was a minor when the case was settled. In his documents, Freddie Gray checked "work injury, medical malpractice and auto accident" as the type of accident. When asked to explain, he also wrote something that is unreadable. He also wrote something unreadable when asked if he was a minor when the case was settled.

... A judge dismissed the case on April 2 when neither Gray nor his sister appeared in court, records show. ... Baltimore attorney William H. "Billy" Murphy, who represents the Gray family, confirmed that the Howard County case was connected to the lead paint lawsuit. Jason Downs, an attorney who is with Murphy's firm and represents one of Gray's relatives, said, "We have no information or evidence at this point to indicate that there is a prior pre-existing spinal injury. It's a rumor."...

As children, Gray and his two sisters were found to have damaging lead levels in their blood, which led to educational, behavioral and medical problems, according to a lawsuit they filed in 2008 against the owner of a Sandtown-Winchester home the family rented for four years.

While the property owner countered in the suit that other factors could have contributed to the children's deficits — including poverty and their mother's drug use — the case was settled before going to trial in 2010. The terms of the settlement are not public.

Fwiw, I believe Billy Murphy is a pretty influential and well known plaintiffs' attorney. Doesn't mean anything but it could have been a sizable case.

 

[rockaction]

Just saw a stat from CNN -

Killed by police in 2014:

African American - 233

White - 414

Hispanic - 138

Asian - 15

Unreported Race - 311

Oops

Two things. Number 1, I am surprised to learn that cops killed 1,111 American last year.

Number 2, we know the race of 800 of those people. Since African-Americans make up 13% of the population, 104 cop-related deaths would equal their percentage of the overall population. Instead, African-Americans were killed by police at 2.5 times more than that.

Also, a proportionate basis, there would have been 616 killings of white people, who make up 77% of the population.

We can't possibly look at this without knowing the raw numbers of crimes by race, percentage of crimes committed by race, etc.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

So I just read an article where they said they "sang" Take Me Out To The Ball Game" during the 7th inning stretch yesterday. And they also announced the official game attendance over the PA System as zero.

Caleb Joseph signs autographs for imaginary fans

Gary Thorne does his best Master's voice

I hear some golf claps in there too.

Also have to appreciate the stadium announcer calling out the batters... to an empty stadium.

 

[Gary Coal Man]

3. This is where it becomes conjecture. It sounds like he hit his head/neck on something in the vehicle. Could this have happened if the driver hit the brakes or too hard or took a turn to fast (even on purpose)? Sure, it could. It could also have been this kid trying to make some noise, or rough himself up and blame it on the cops and just hit himself in the wrong spot/position. Sounds as likely a scenario; doubt we'll ever know for sure.

Another possibility...

What if the loud banging sounds the passenger interpreted as Gray trying to rough himself up were actually Gray trying to escape by banging into the back door?

It's been stated that the bolt that injured him was in the back of the van, but where in the back? If the bolt was projecting out of the inside of the paddy wagon's back door, then that's another possibility.

Prep the calls for surveillance cameras in the back of paddy wagon's.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

3. This is where it becomes conjecture. It sounds like he hit his head/neck on something in the vehicle. Could this have happened if the driver hit the brakes or too hard or took a turn to fast (even on purpose)? Sure, it could. It could also have been this kid trying to make some noise, or rough himself up and blame it on the cops and just hit himself in the wrong spot/position. Sounds as likely a scenario; doubt we'll ever know for sure.

Another possibility...

What if the loud banging sounds the passenger interpreted as Gray trying to rough himself up were actually Gray trying to escape by banging into the back door?

It's been stated that the bolt that injured him was in the back of the van, but where in the back? If the bolt was projecting out of the inside of the paddy wagon's back door, then that's another possibility.

Prep the calls for surveillance cameras in the back of paddy wagon's.

He could have also been banging wildly for someone to come help him.

 

[Dr Oadi]

Why is ####ing out of wedlock so much more prevalent in one group and not in another? Really?

The answer is that it's not. Or at least I think that's probably way down the list of reasons for the disparity. Sex education is more prevalent in one group and not another. Access to birth control is more prevalent in one group and not another. Money to pay for abortions- and societal acceptance of the practice- is more prevalent in one group and not another. Those are also significant reasons for the disparity.

I'm not treating your posts on this whole "black kids being born out of wedlock are the problem!" thing seriously because I think it's pointless. First, I think the premise that two-parent families make a huge difference is mostly nonsense. Having two parents probably helps children a little bit, but most of the data shows correlation, not causation. Second, to the extent that it is a problem, there are already some obvious solutions that I would fully support. Increased funding for sex education for poorer areas of the country. Easy access to birth control in those areas. Unfettered access to abortions and financial assistance to those who seek them but can't afford them. Reform of our ridiculous drug laws so we stop incarcerating potential husbands for victimless crimes. There you go, problem solved. Is that gonna end unfair treatment of the black community by law enforcement? Is if going to put them on equal footing when it comes to financial opportunity?

Finally- yesterday I misread a post about raw birth numbers and cited birth rates instead. I apologized for it. I understand the difference between the two. Stop being a smug ####### about it.

You can not be serious.

I think it matters- as the rest of the post indicates- but I think my colleague here is vastly overstating its importance.

Here's a good link to explain my perspective. Yes, it matters, but it's impossible to isolate the fact that you have two parents from other factors associated with two-parent households that also have a positive effect on children- more money, older parents, parents more inclined to be active in child-rearing, etc. Bottom line:

Making single parents get married, in other words, won't fundamentally change the other characteristics about them that really drive their children's success. The good news in this is that family income and parenting skills are more realistically addressed through public policy than marriage anyway.

Just like any good liberal would say. The father is replaced with the state. the liberals know better. They don't even bother to hide it anymore. That is Americas culture.

 

[Van Dyman]

people have no idea how easy it is to break a neck. Didn't a football player suffer a serious neck injury head butting a wall after a touchdown?

You're probably thinking of Gus Frerotte.

 

[Jack White]

Just saw a stat from CNN -

Killed by police in 2014:

African American - 233

White - 414

Hispanic - 138

Asian - 15

Unreported Race - 311

Couple thoughts on this:

1. These are only the reported deaths. There are many more which go unreported.

2. It confirms what I've said on multiple occasions: this is not a race issue, it's a police killing civilians issue.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

people have no idea how easy it is to break a neck. Didn't a football player suffer a serious neck injury head butting a wall after a touchdown?

You're probably thinking of Gus Frerotte.

Bump Bailey, 1923.

 

[Jack White]

I don't know if this has been posted already...

There was a discussion yesterday or day before about an internet rumor about there being a lawsuit involving Gray from just this month, a couple weeks before Gray's death. Well the Baltimore Sun looked into this and found there was indeed a lawsuit, but it related back to the prior lead paint lawsuit that he and his sister had been involved in.

The truth about Freddie Gray's 'pre-existing injury from car accident'... But court records examined Wednesday by The Baltimore Sun show the case had nothing to do with a car accident or a spine injury. Instead, they are connected to a lawsuit alleging that Gray and his sister were injured by exposure to lead paint.

Paperwork was filed in December allowing Gray and his sister, Fredericka to each collect an $18,000 payment from Peachtree Settlement Funding, records show. In exchange, Peachtree would have received a $108,439 annuity that was scheduled to be paid in $602 monthly installments between 2024 and 2039.

In her documents, Fredericka Gray checked "other" when asked to describe the type of accident. She also said that the date of the accident was "94/99" and that she was a minor when the case was settled. In his documents, Freddie Gray checked "work injury, medical malpractice and auto accident" as the type of accident. When asked to explain, he also wrote something that is unreadable. He also wrote something unreadable when asked if he was a minor when the case was settled.

... A judge dismissed the case on April 2 when neither Gray nor his sister appeared in court, records show. ... Baltimore attorney William H. "Billy" Murphy, who represents the Gray family, confirmed that the Howard County case was connected to the lead paint lawsuit. Jason Downs, an attorney who is with Murphy's firm and represents one of Gray's relatives, said, "We have no information or evidence at this point to indicate that there is a prior pre-existing spinal injury. It's a rumor."...

As children, Gray and his two sisters were found to have damaging lead levels in their blood, which led to educational, behavioral and medical problems, according to a lawsuit they filed in 2008 against the owner of a Sandtown-Winchester home the family rented for four years.

While the property owner countered in the suit that other factors could have contributed to the children's deficits — including poverty and their mother's drug use — the case was settled before going to trial in 2010. The terms of the settlement are not public.

Fwiw, I believe Billy Murphy is a pretty influential and well known plaintiffs' attorney. Doesn't mean anything but it could have been a sizable case.

Also a good defense attorney, as evidenced by his successful work in the Clay Davis case.

 

[Jack White]

Great work by the CNN camera man following the cute girl in shorts.

 

[General Tso]

3. This is where it becomes conjecture. It sounds like he hit his head/neck on something in the vehicle. Could this have happened if the driver hit the brakes or too hard or took a turn to fast (even on purpose)? Sure, it could. It could also have been this kid trying to make some noise, or rough himself up and blame it on the cops and just hit himself in the wrong spot/position. Sounds as likely a scenario; doubt we'll ever know for sure.

Another possibility...

What if the loud banging sounds the passenger interpreted as Gray trying to rough himself up were actually Gray trying to escape by banging into the back door?

It's been stated that the bolt that injured him was in the back of the van, but where in the back? If the bolt was projecting out of the inside of the paddy wagon's back door, then that's another possibility.

I saw a news report from Baltimore and the reported specifically said that the bolt causing the injury was in the BACK DOOR of the van. I'll try to find the link but I know I heard it, because the first thing I thought of was that he wa trying to break his way out. I think the narrative that may emerge is that initially he may have been trying to break out of the van. The police pulled over to shackle him. He then proceeds to try and head butt open the door and breaks his neck. Just a guess on my part but it matches the sequence of events and the bits of evidence that have emerged.

 

[Jack White]

"It's my job to advocate for my constituents."

That is hilarious!

 

[General Tso]

Our old friend Leland was at it again today. Things got a little physical with Al Sharpton lol - http://youtu.be/THBEpDPW_Vc

Leland - "Whoa whoa whoa!!!"

Sharpton (half laughing) - "Relax"

 

[General Tso]

3. This is where it becomes conjecture. It sounds like he hit his head/neck on something in the vehicle. Could this have happened if the driver hit the brakes or too hard or took a turn to fast (even on purpose)? Sure, it could. It could also have been this kid trying to make some noise, or rough himself up and blame it on the cops and just hit himself in the wrong spot/position. Sounds as likely a scenario; doubt we'll ever know for sure.

Another possibility...

What if the loud banging sounds the passenger interpreted as Gray trying to rough himself up were actually Gray trying to escape by banging into the back door?

It's been stated that the bolt that injured him was in the back of the van, but where in the back? If the bolt was projecting out of the inside of the paddy wagon's back door, then that's another possibility.

I saw a news report from Baltimore and the reported specifically said that the bolt causing the injury was in the BACK DOOR of the van. I'll try to find the link but I know I heard it, because the first thing I thought of was that he wa trying to break his way out. I think the narrative that may emerge is that initially he may have been trying to break out of the van. The police pulled over to shackle him. He then proceeds to try and head butt open the door and breaks his neck. Just a guess on my part but it matches the sequence of events and the bits of evidence that have emerged.

Here's the link - http://www.wjla.com/articles/2015/04/breaking-news-no-evidence-found-that-freddie-gray-s-death-was-result-of-police-who-arrested-him-prob.htmlHe doesn't say back door, but he does point to it.

 

[Jack White]

The police commissioner is not very bright.

But he has mastered the art of tortured bureaucratic syntax.

 

[General Tso]

CNN reporting that the a Medical Examiner's report will be turned over to the State's Attorney's office as early as tomorrow. Wow.

 

[rockaction]

CNN reporting that the a Medical Examiner's report will be turned over to the State's Attorney's office as early as tomorrow. Wow.

The suspense is killing me as badly as the release of the 9/11 Commission's report. I'm atwitter.

 

[General Tso]

3. This is where it becomes conjecture. It sounds like he hit his head/neck on something in the vehicle. Could this have happened if the driver hit the brakes or too hard or took a turn to fast (even on purpose)? Sure, it could. It could also have been this kid trying to make some noise, or rough himself up and blame it on the cops and just hit himself in the wrong spot/position. Sounds as likely a scenario; doubt we'll ever know for sure.

Another possibility...What if the loud banging sounds the passenger interpreted as Gray trying to rough himself up were actually Gray trying to escape by banging into the back door?

It's been stated that the bolt that injured him was in the back of the van, but where in the back? If the bolt was projecting out of the inside of the paddy wagon's back door, then that's another possibility.

Prep the calls for surveillance cameras in the back of paddy wagon's.

He could have also been banging wildly for someone to come help him.

That's a good point. If indeed he sustained a serious injury during the ride and couldn't breath, that could explain him banging around making noise. All sorts of possibilities as to what transpired.He also could have been injured falling off the bench. Twice before unrestrained Baltimore prisoners have been paralyzed during a wagon ride. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/01/us/freddie-grays-injury-and-the-police-rough-ride.html

 

[Jack White]

Two things I like about this piece by Jeffrey Tucker:

1. It's a perspective you will NOT find on CNN, Fox or any other presstitutes in the mainstream media.

2. He does not rely on the divide-and-conquer crutch of race to make his analysis.

***************************************************

[SIZE=21.3333339691162px]Baltimore: Socialist Paradise[/SIZE]

If you have seen “The Wire,” you know the score. There are consequences to state management of any social order. Baltimore is a paradigmatic case. How long can people continue to evade the obvious lessons?

It began more than 100 years ago with the imposition of state segregation. This was the original sin that created a second-class of citizenship and racial ghettos for the first time since the end of the Civil War. Every policy response follows from there, with one coercive mistake following another. This town became the backyard playground for the ruling-class planners in Washington, D.C.. The intellectuals and policymakers behind these policies cannot reasonably claim to escape responsibility.

Baltimore blew up in riots and fires in the days following the astonishing cruelty of the killing of Freddie Gray. But it is a mistake to focus the blame on this incident alone. What happened in Baltimore is the product of the drug war, a racially punitive policing system, failed public services, segregated public housing, urban renewal, endless rounds of progressive education reform, a highly regulated labor market that cuts off economic opportunity, occupational licensure, gun control, and permanent martial law that makes everyone feel like prisoners.

Baltimore got the full brunt of it all, at every stage, decade after decade.

What do all these policies have in common? They represent a fatal error, common for the better part of a century, of believing that policy elites can manage the social order better than the social order can manage itself. Only the ruling class can decide where and how people should live, how they will be educated, what they can buy and sell, the terms of labor contracts, what businesses come and go, and who gets to enter into certain occupations and the terms under which they may do so. The government would do it all: build and maintain the housing, provide the education, make the jobs, enable the security, and administer the justice.

How has this turned out? The results are in. During the riots, there were no dire consequences that were not observable all over the media: social alienation, racial conflict, a war between elites and the people, a loss of respect for property rights, moral desperation and anomie, and a profound loss of hope. That invariably comes with the loss of freedom. How it expresses itself can be unpredictable and confusing, but that bad ideas have bad consequences no one can doubt.

This is why the typical bourgeois response to Baltimore events is so wrong. People look only at the surface and shake their fists. They say lock up these animals. Impose martial law. Unleash the cops. These solutions sell well to the public. But this is how fascism wins. It lives off the failure of socialism, and then we circle back around again, without end.

What is wrong with the police-state solution? Notice how good the cops are at roughing people up when there is no danger and no real threat. But when the time comes when people actually hope that the police will defend person and property against invasion, times of genuine upheaval and fear, suddenly the police retire back and become strangely passive. It happens in every case of “civil unrest,” and it’s always astonishing.

This is when property owners discover that they are on their own. But they are unprepared for the onslaught. So they welcome ever more mighty police forces, only to find out later that martial law makes them prisoners in their own city, and still does not bring the peace that everyone wants.

The persistence of this behavior should make everyone rethink their presumptions that tax-funded, government-run policing is the right approach to security. Escalation will work no better in Baltimore than it did in Baghdad. That goes for drug policy, education, family policy, and labor markets.

This is not about the failure of one mayor, one police force, or one president. It’s about the failure of an unworkable paradigm of social and economic management.

How many other cities will burn before we admit it? How much longer must we endure pious lectures by left-wing intellectual elites about how “we haven’t done enough” as well as the angry brown-shirted bromides by right-wing pundits about how recalcitrants need more iron-fisted blows to the head?

We are witnessing the terrible costs of a failed worldview that resulted in many failed states. What remains to us is the option to try what we should have done long ago: permit people to work out their problems for themselves, unmolested and unimpeded in the exercise of their human rights. The rest will take care of itself.

 

[The_Man]

The government would do it all: build and maintain the housing, provide the education, make the jobs, enable the security, and administer the justice.

This is profoundly stupid.

 

[rockaction]

Love that article.

 

[rockaction]

The government would do it all: build and maintain the housing, provide the education, make the jobs, enable the security, and administer the justice.

This is profoundly stupid.

No more profoundly stupid than a burningly anarchic city with a 10 P.M. curfew, fires in streets, looting, and rioting.

 

[General Tso]

Can anyone find a news report detailing the Officer(s) in the van? Was it one Officer? Two? Names? I can't find that info anywhere.

It's vitally important. The public's initial rage here was that Freddie Gray was killed by the police. We know he went into the van in relatively good shape but came out unresponsive and not breathing. So the terminal blow here, if you will, had to occur in the van. Here is what we know:

- 6 officers suspended.

- 3 of the Officers were on bikes

- 1 of the Officers was a woman (Alicia White). Perhaps she was the driver?

- I think I read that the river of the van lawyer end up right away and hasn't made an official statement yet.

- Lt. Brian Rice initiated the pursuit. This is the guy who apparently had the mental health issues just reported by the AP - http://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2015/04/30/officer-in-fatal-arrest-once-hospitalized-over-mental-health?page=2

This whole case hinges on what happened in the van, and I can't believe it's been almost 3 weeks and we still don't have good info on the cop(s) that were in the van.