Baltimore: The Next Ferguson? (1 Viewer)

[timschochet]

I think Grove Diesel and General Tso have made some solid arguments. I'd be interested in hearing the progressive response, especially to Grove's point about the amount of money spent on each student. That fact alone is really suggestive that liberal ideas, at least in terms of education, are problematic.

 

[Jack White]

Sure, but do you have any stats to back up your claims?

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Union: "These officers did nothing wrong."

All last week, I heard, "it's real easy to not get arrested, just don't break the law."

Then 6 cops get arrested. And suddenly, it's a rush to judgment by an inexperienced prosecutor.

Yeah and you know every high priced defense lawyer in the area is gonna rush to defend these police officers. My prediction is many of the charges get dropped and then Baltimorians are gonna be all pissed off again. I can't believe they didn't wait for the internal police investigation to make sure they didn't miss anything.

 

[timschochet]

However General Tso I do think you're a little too eager to dismiss systemic racism. All of the points you made can be accurate and racism can STILL be s major issue. It's not necessarily either or.

 

[otello]

Does anyone believe that race played a part in today's indictments?

 

[General Tso]

However General Tso I do think you're a little too eager to dismiss systemic racism. All of the points you made can be accurate and racism can STILL be s major issue. It's not necessarily either or.

Tim, please let me know how this is possible given all the stats I just posted.

 

[General Tso]

The systemic racism I do see is the failed Liberal policies that have served to keep b

However General Tso I do think you're a little too eager to dismiss systemic racism. All of the points you made can be accurate and racism can STILL be s major issue. It's not necessarily either or.

Actually Tim, after further review of Rock's article I do see the systemic racism in Baltimore:

No Republican, and definitely no conservative, is responsible for the poverty, crime, educational failure, and disintegration of this lesson in Democratic rule. Baltimores police department is the product of the progressive wing of the Democratic party, enabled by black identity politics. This is entirely a left-wing Democratic creation. They get all the credit for what Baltimore has become. The mayor of Baltimore is an incompetent bumbling fool. These corrupt, arrogant left wing boobs are incapable of running a school system, police department, or economy.

They know how to play race politics to get elected. They know how to increase taxes on the few remaining producers in order to redistribute it to their black voters. They know how to destroy businesses and jobs. They know how to create a welfare mindset among black people, enslaving them in poverty, dependency, and ignorance. Blacks have suffered the most from Democratic black rule. These riots will result in less businesses, less jobs and less taxes for the city. Blacks will be hurt the most, but they will continue to vote for Democrats. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Believing liberal welfare policies will fix the problems created by liberal welfare policies is insane. Liberalism is a disease of the brain and has infected a vast swath of America, especially in urban enclaves across the land.

Baltimore and every other Democrat controlled urban enclave in America are destined for decline, destruction, and civic decay. Baltimore cannot be fixed by spending more money on welfare programs. The country has spent $22 trillion on anti-poverty programs since LBJ declared his war on poverty. They havent moved the dial on poverty one iota. They have created generations of dependent black people, trapped in urban ghettos like Baltimore. If you cant educate children for $15,700 per year, then you wont educate them any better for $18,000 per year. Liberals will never admit their policies, programs, and corrupt practices created this national disaster.

Liberal welfare policies have encouraged and rewarded out of wedlock births. The 72% black out of wedlock birth rate is the single biggest cause of Baltimores long-term decline. Children without fathers are destined to be uneducated, unemployed, and underachieving. Children raised by married working parents who provide good role models are not on the streets. They are studying. They are not looting, killing, robbing or having kids when they are teenagers. There are no guarantees in life, but being stupid, lazy and ignorant guarantees a life of poverty. Liberal welfare policies pay these people to have more kids out of wedlock in order to maximize their welfare payments. There have now been three generations of black people entrapped by these demented welfare programs.

There is no will among the recipients or distributors of race based welfare payments to change their policies or programs. Therefore, every time a white cop kills a black person or a white store owner kills a black thief in Baltimore or any urban ghetto, the potential for riots, looting, and burning of businesses will rear its ugly head. The only guarantee is the liberals running the urban ghetto will not accept blame for what they have wrought. Farewell to the America of personal responsibility, work ethic, marriage, family, and valuing education.

 

[squistion]

However General Tso I do think you're a little too eager to dismiss systemic racism. All of the points you made can be accurate and racism can STILL be s major issue. It's not necessarily either or.

Tim, please let me know how this is possible given all the stats I just posted.

There are lies, there are damn lies and there are statistics - Mark Twain paraphrasing Disraeli.

 

[General Tso]

Does anyone believe that race played a part in today's indictments?

Uh yeah. Mayor Hot-Stuff said so today:

No one is above the law in our city. To those of you who wish to engage in brutality, misconduct, racism and corruption, let me be clear: There is no place in the Baltimore City Police Department for you.

 

[General Tso]

However General Tso I do think you're a little too eager to dismiss systemic racism. All of the points you made can be accurate and racism can STILL be s major issue. It's not necessarily either or.

Tim, please let me know how this is possible given all the stats I just posted.

There are lies, there are damn lies and there are statistics - Mark Twain paraphrasing Disraeli.

And that's the beauty of racism. It's foolproof. If a black person has something done to him that he doesn't like - racism. You don't have to prove intent. You dont need to have it supported by facts. And I learned today from Tobias that the grievance doesn't even have to be traced to a white person.

 

[lod01]

Gonna be pretty hard to get anybody for racism when 3 of the 6 cops were black.

 

[Sinn Fein]

Union: "These officers did nothing wrong."

All last week, I heard, "it's real easy to not get arrested, just don't break the law."

Then 6 cops get arrested. And suddenly, it's a rush to judgment by an inexperienced prosecutor.

Yeah and you know every high priced defense lawyer in the area is gonna rush to defend these police officers. My prediction is many of the charges get dropped and then Baltimorians are gonna be all pissed off again. I can't believe they didn't wait for the internal police investigation to make sure they didn't miss anything.

This was political grandstanding at its worst imo. In the long run this will backfire on the SA, and Baltimore in general, as a schism between the police and SA office is not good for anyone - except criminals.

 

[Jack White]

However General Tso I do think you're a little too eager to dismiss systemic racism. All of the points you made can be accurate and racism can STILL be s major issue. It's not necessarily either or.

Tim, please let me know how this is possible given all the stats I just posted.

There are lies, there are damn lies and there are statistics - Mark Twain paraphrasing Disraeli.

And that's the beauty of racism. It's foolproof. If a black person has something done to him that he doesn't like - racism. You don't have to prove intent. You dont need to have it supported by facts. And I learned today from Tobias that the grievance doesn't even have to be traced to a white person.

Racism in the context of police misconduct is a thought crime.

I'm more concerned with the actions of the police than I am their thoughts.

 

[Jack White]

Gonna be pretty hard to get anybody for racism when 3 of the 6 cops were black.

David Simon talks about this in the lengthy interview posted in this thread.

 

[General Tso]

Gonna be pretty hard to get anybody for racism when 3 of the 6 cops were black.

Yeah, it's going to very comical very quickly as people start to figure that out.

 

[chauncey]

When the white bicycle cops go free and the black driver/chauffeur goes to jail there will be cries of racism fo sho.

I'm starting to think that there isn't really much racism in this country other than the media (mainstream and social) manufactured racism.

 

[GroveDiesel]

I think Grove Diesel and General Tso have made some solid arguments. I'd be interested in hearing the progressive response, especially to Grove's point about the amount of money spent on each student. That fact alone is really suggestive that liberal ideas, at least in terms of education, are problematic.

And Baltimore isn't the outlier here. Camden, NJ is near the top of the list currently spending about $25,000 per student. D.C. Schools are near the top in per student spending. Philly is near the top in per student spending. Cleveland is near the top in per student spending. All are awful districts with terrible graduation rates and poor test scores.

 

[General Tso]

Gonna be pretty hard to get anybody for racism when 3 of the 6 cops were black.

David Simon talks about this in the lengthy interview posted in this thread.

We keep talking about this so here is the relevant text. Personally, I don't get it, but here it is...

How does race figure into this? It’s a city with a black majority and now a black mayor and black police chief, a substantially black police force.

What did Tom Wolfe write about cops? They all become Irish? That's a line in “Bonfire of the Vanities.” When Ed and I reported “The Corner,” it became clear that the most brutal cops in our sector of the Western District were black. The guys who would really kick your ### without thinking twice were black officers. If I had to guess and put a name on it, I’d say that at some point, the drug war was as much a function of class and social control as it was of racism. I think the two agendas are inextricably linked, and where one picks up and the other ends is hard to say. But when you have African-American officers beating the dog-piss out of people they’re supposed to be policing, and there isn't a white guy in the equation on a street level, it's pretty remarkable. But in some ways they were empowered. Back then, even before the advent of cell phones and digital cameras — which have been transforming in terms of documenting police violence — back then, you were much more vulnerable if you were white and you wanted to wail on somebody. You take out your nightstick and you’re white and you start hitting somebody, it has a completely different dynamic than if you were a black officer. It was simply safer to be brutal if you were black, and I didn't know quite what to do with that fact other than report it. It was as disturbing a dynamic as I could imagine. Something had been removed from the equation that gave white officers — however brutal they wanted to be, or however brutal they thought the moment required — it gave them pause before pulling out a nightstick and going at it. Some African American officers seemed to feel no such pause.

 

[lod01]

So you get stuffed into a van that looks like it's used to catch stray dogs. Man you gotta be a loser to get put in one of those.

 

[General Tso]

When the white bicycle cops go free and the black driver/chauffeur goes to jail there will be cries of racism fo sho.

I can guarantee that by the end of the night, now that the race of the officers has been released, that people will start complaining about the black driver getting a stiffer charge than the white officers in the video. Guaranteed.

 

[lod01]

When the white bicycle cops go free and the black driver/chauffeur goes to jail there will be cries of racism fo sho.

I can guarantee that by the end of the night, now that the race of the officers has been released, that people will start complaining about the black driver getting a stiffer charge than the white officers in the video. Guaranteed.

...and being charged first. (at least he's the only one whose mug shot I've seen plastered on CNN).

 

[Doctor Detroit]

When the white bicycle cops go free and the black driver/chauffeur goes to jail there will be cries of racism fo sho.

I can guarantee that by the end of the night, now that the race of the officers has been released, that people will start complaining about the black driver getting a stiffer charge than the white officers in the video. Guaranteed.

Nah

 

[Thunderlips]

I'm troubled by this prosecution.

I don't want to assume this is political, and I don't agree with rockaction's accusation that it's a collective prosecution against all police misconduct. But there are some things about it which really troubles me. This is a rather complicated case, and it took them a rather short time to lay charges. It troubled me when the prosecutor said today, "You said no justice no peace and I listened to you!" That sounds political to me. It doesn't feel right.

In the Michael Brown case, because there wasn't clear cut evidence either way, my gut told me that Darren Wilson probably committed an unlawful murder because the notion of an unarmed Brown turning around and charging him seemed so unlikely. I still believe that. In this case, my gut tells me that, whatever mistakes these officers made, they didn't intentionally mean to kill this guy or seriously harm him. Why? Because it makes no sense. What makes sense is that they were unaware how serious his situation was, thought he was whining, and ignored him. If I'm right, they deserve to be disciplined for that, maybe even be removed from the force and face some jail time perhaps. But 20 years imprisonment? Murder and manslaughter? That doesn't seem right to me. Again evidence may come in that will change my mind, and for the sake of the prosecution, I hope it does.

But honestly I'm not seeing this.

I have the same initial reaction. I was troubled by her speech. Sounded at times like pandering to the angry masses, then at other times like bad schtick at a college campus. "Our time is now!" Easy there Mrs. Moseby. This isn't about you leading a movement. Your role is to be above all that and ensure that justice is meted out fairly.She may end up getting it right but boy did her youth and inexperience come through this afternoon.

I think those are valid criticisims of her speech.

 

[Thunderlips]

Gonna be pretty hard to get anybody for racism when 3 of the 6 cops were black.

David Simon talks about this in the lengthy interview posted in this thread.

We keep talking about this so here is the relevant text. Personally, I don't get it, but here it is...

How does race figure into this? It’s a city with a black majority and now a black mayor and black police chief, a substantially black police force.

What did Tom Wolfe write about cops? They all become Irish? That's a line in “Bonfire of the Vanities.” When Ed and I reported “The Corner,” it became clear that the most brutal cops in our sector of the Western District were black. The guys who would really kick your ### without thinking twice were black officers. If I had to guess and put a name on it, I’d say that at some point, the drug war was as much a function of class and social control as it was of racism. I think the two agendas are inextricably linked, and where one picks up and the other ends is hard to say. But when you have African-American officers beating the dog-piss out of people they’re supposed to be policing, and there isn't a white guy in the equation on a street level, it's pretty remarkable. But in some ways they were empowered. Back then, even before the advent of cell phones and digital cameras — which have been transforming in terms of documenting police violence — back then, you were much more vulnerable if you were white and you wanted to wail on somebody. You take out your nightstick and you’re white and you start hitting somebody, it has a completely different dynamic than if you were a black officer. It was simply safer to be brutal if you were black, and I didn't know quite what to do with that fact other than report it. It was as disturbing a dynamic as I could imagine. Something had been removed from the equation that gave white officers — however brutal they wanted to be, or however brutal they thought the moment required — it gave them pause before pulling out a nightstick and going at it. Some African American officers seemed to feel no such pause.

Gonna be pretty hard to get anybody for racism when 3 of the 6 cops were black.

David Simon talks about this in the lengthy interview posted in this thread.

We keep talking about this so here is the relevant text. Personally, I don't get it, but here it is...

How does race figure into this? It’s a city with a black majority and now a black mayor and black police chief, a substantially black police force.

What did Tom Wolfe write about cops? They all become Irish? That's a line in “Bonfire of the Vanities.” When Ed and I reported “The Corner,” it became clear that the most brutal cops in our sector of the Western District were black. The guys who would really kick your ### without thinking twice were black officers. If I had to guess and put a name on it, I’d say that at some point, the drug war was as much a function of class and social control as it was of racism. I think the two agendas are inextricably linked, and where one picks up and the other ends is hard to say. But when you have African-American officers beating the dog-piss out of people they’re supposed to be policing, and there isn't a white guy in the equation on a street level, it's pretty remarkable. But in some ways they were empowered. Back then, even before the advent of cell phones and digital cameras — which have been transforming in terms of documenting police violence — back then, you were much more vulnerable if you were white and you wanted to wail on somebody. You take out your nightstick and you’re white and you start hitting somebody, it has a completely different dynamic than if you were a black officer. It was simply safer to be brutal if you were black, and I didn't know quite what to do with that fact other than report it. It was as disturbing a dynamic as I could imagine. Something had been removed from the equation that gave white officers — however brutal they wanted to be, or however brutal they thought the moment required — it gave them pause before pulling out a nightstick and going at it. Some African American officers seemed to feel no such pause.

Here's a quote from Wolfe on it....

“Irish machismo - that was the dour madness that gripped them all. They called themselves Harps and Donkeys, the Irish did. Donkeys! They used the word themselves, in pride but also as an admission. They understood the word. Irish bravery was not the bravery of the lion but the bravery of the donkey. As a cop, or an assistant district attorney in Homicide, no matter what kind of stupid fix you got yourself into, you never backed off. You held your ground. That was what was scary about even the smallest and most insignificant of the breed. Once they took a position, they were ready to fight. To deal with them you had to be willing to fight also, and not that many people on this poor globe were willing to fight. The other side of it was loyalty. When one of them got in a jam, the others never broke ranks. Well, that wasn't completely true, but the game had to be pretty far gone before the Irish started looking out for Number One. The cops were like that, and assistant D.A.s in Homicide were supposed to be like that. Loyalty was loyalty, and Irish loyalty was a monolith, indivisible. The code of the Donkey! And every Jew, every Italian, every black, every Puerto Rican, internalized that code and became a stone Donkey himself. The Irish liked to entertain one another with Irish war stories, so that when Donkey Fitzgibbon and Donkey Goldberg listened to Donkey Martin, all they lacked was booze so they could complete the picture by getting drunk and sentimental or drunk and in a brutal rage. No, thought Kramer, they don't need alcohol. They're high on what tough, undeluded mother####ers they are.”

 

[BroncoFreak_2K3]

Union: "These officers did nothing wrong."

All last week, I heard, "it's real easy to not get arrested, just don't break the law."

Then 6 cops get arrested. And suddenly, it's a rush to judgment by an inexperienced prosecutor.

Yeah and you know every high priced defense lawyer in the area is gonna rush to defend these police officers. My prediction is many of the charges get dropped and then Baltimorians are gonna be all pissed off again. I can't believe they didn't wait for the internal police investigation to make sure they didn't miss anything.

This was political grandstanding at its worst imo. In the long run this will backfire on the SA, and Baltimore in general, as a schism between the police and SA office is not good for anyone - except criminals.

 

[The Z Machine]

I hope they take their time with the trials. I'm up for jury duty next month in Baltimore city and got a summons for the state court, but no date yet.

I'd do almost anything to not be on a jury for those cops.

 

[General Tso]

I hope they take their time with the trials. I'm up for jury duty next month in Baltimore city and got a summons for the state court, but no date yet.

I'd do almost anything to not be on a jury for those cops.

They are going to have to change venues. How on earth would these cops get a fair trial in Baltimore? The other prisoner in the van, who simply said that he heard Gray thrashing around in the van, said he fears for his life.

 

[timschochet]

Loved that quote.

The Bonfire of the Vanities is nearly 30 years old, but its still so true in so many ways. One of the most perceptive novels I have ever read. And so funny.

 

[Apple Jack]

I hope they take their time with the trials. I'm up for jury duty next month in Baltimore city and got a summons for the state court, but no date yet.

I'd do almost anything to not be on a jury for those cops.

They are going to have to change venues. How on earth would these cops get a fair trial in Baltimore? The other prisoner in the van, who simply said that he heard Gray thrashing around in the van, said he fears for his life.

What kind of odds you giving on this change of venue?

 

[General Tso]

I hope they take their time with the trials. I'm up for jury duty next month in Baltimore city and got a summons for the state court, but no date yet.

I'd do almost anything to not be on a jury for those cops.

They are going to have to change venues. How on earth would these cops get a fair trial in Baltimore? The other prisoner in the van, who simply said that he heard Gray thrashing around in the van, said he fears for his life.

What kind of odds you giving on this change of venue?

I'm not giving odds on anything at this point. In the current climate we are in nothing would surprise me.

 

[General Tso]

Leland on Fox interviewing black people dancing in the streets. Warning of "potentially salty language".

 

[PinkydaPimp]

Leland on Fox interviewing black people dancing in the streets. Warning of "potentially salty language".

just switched over. this is bananas.

 

[General Tso]

Cops taking down protesters. This could get ugly.

 

[General Tso]

Leland on Fox interviewing black people dancing in the streets. Warning of "potentially salty language".

just switched over. this is bananas.

Ironic you say that because they just interviewed a young lady named Chiquita (I'm dead serious).

 

[General Tso]

Cops are looking for blood tonight.

 

[General Tso]

My God what a circus this is. What exactly are people protesting at this point?

And now this idiot reporter on CNN (Miguel) is getting into an argument with a cop who is politely asking him to move somewhere else. The guy is actually talking about his constitutional rights being abused? WTF? This is unbelievable.

 

[timschochet]

However General Tso I do think you're a little too eager to dismiss systemic racism. All of the points you made can be accurate and racism can STILL be s major issue. It's not necessarily either or.

Tim, please let me know how this is possible given all the stats I just posted.

It's possible because, IMO, the police continue to have a systemic pattern of treating blacks, especially, young black men, differently.

 

[General Tso]

Cop being interviewed on FOX:

- Cops saw Gray doing a drug transaction and that's why they pursued him.

- They did not find any drugs om Gray after the pursuit and capture.

- Toxicology report shows Gray tested positive for heroin and marijuana.

- Cops think Gray may have ingested the heroin.

 

[timschochet]

Cop being interviewed on FOX:

- Cops saw Gray doing a drug transaction and that's why they pursued him.

- They did not find any drugs om Gray after the pursuit and capture.

- Toxicology report shows Gray tested positive for heroin and marijuana.

- Cops think Gray may have ingested the heroin.

Hannity had the same guy on earlier. So ingesting heroin would make you break your own spine?

 

[General Tso]

Cop being interviewed on FOX:

- Cops saw Gray doing a drug transaction and that's why they pursued him.

- They did not find any drugs om Gray after the pursuit and capture.

- Toxicology report shows Gray tested positive for heroin and marijuana.

- Cops think Gray may have ingested the heroin.

Hannity had the same guy on earlier. So ingesting heroin would make you break your own spine?

The heroin drug sale is relevant with respect to the charge that it was an unlawful arrest. And he broke his neck. People keep saying his spine which implies a break in the middle of the back. A broken neck can happen very easily Tim. One of my best friends broke his neck skiing when he basically just fell over and hit his head awkwardly. Just curious, what do you think happened? Do you think Officer Goodsen, during one of the stops, went in there and broke his neck?

 

[Thunderlips]

Cop being interviewed on FOX:

- Cops saw Gray doing a drug transaction and that's why they pursued him.

- They did not find any drugs om Gray after the pursuit and capture.

- Toxicology report shows Gray tested positive for heroin and marijuana.

- Cops think Gray may have ingested the heroin.

Hannity had the same guy on earlier. So ingesting heroin would make you break your own spine?

The heroin drug sale is relevant with respect to the charge that it was an unlawful arrest. And he broke his neck. People keep saying his spine which implies a break in the middle of the back. A broken neck can happen very easily Tim. One of my best friends broke his neck skiing when he basically just fell over and hit his head awkwardly. Just curious, what do you think happened? Do you think Officer Goodsen, during one of the stops, went in there and broke his neck?

I think they gave him a "bounce house" ride and it went wrong. He fell or got slammed into something because they didn't buckle him in. I'm sure if they could have the day back (even if solely to save the kids life)....they'd no doubt want it back.

 

[timschochet]

Cop being interviewed on FOX:

- Cops saw Gray doing a drug transaction and that's why they pursued him.

- They did not find any drugs om Gray after the pursuit and capture.

- Toxicology report shows Gray tested positive for heroin and marijuana.

- Cops think Gray may have ingested the heroin.

Hannity had the same guy on earlier. So ingesting heroin would make you break your own spine?

The heroin drug sale is relevant with respect to the charge that it was an unlawful arrest. And he broke his neck. People keep saying his spine which implies a break in the middle of the back. A broken neck can happen very easily Tim. One of my best friends broke his neck skiing when he basically just fell over and hit his head awkwardly. Just curious, what do you think happened? Do you think Officer Goodsen, during one of the stops, went in there and broke his neck?

Honestly, I think they didn't put a seatbelt on him, and he banged around because maybe they made a rough turn, and they didn't respond soon enough. That's what I wrote earlier. That's why the charges seem excessive to me. But I guess we'll find out.

 

[General Tso]

Cop being interviewed on FOX:

- Cops saw Gray doing a drug transaction and that's why they pursued him.

- They did not find any drugs om Gray after the pursuit and capture.

- Toxicology report shows Gray tested positive for heroin and marijuana.

- Cops think Gray may have ingested the heroin.

Hannity had the same guy on earlier. So ingesting heroin would make you break your own spine?

The heroin drug sale is relevant with respect to the charge that it was an unlawful arrest. And he broke his neck. People keep saying his spine which implies a break in the middle of the back. A broken neck can happen very easily Tim. One of my best friends broke his neck skiing when he basically just fell over and hit his head awkwardly. Just curious, what do you think happened? Do you think Officer Goodsen, during one of the stops, went in there and broke his neck?

I think they gave him a "bounce house" ride and it went wrong. He fell or got slammed into something because they didn't buckle him in. I'm sure if they could have the day back (even if solely to save the kids life)....they'd no doubt want it back.

Evidence of a "rough ride"? Wouldn't you need to see video of the van driving erratically? Or testimony from the other prisoner in the van?

 

[General Tso]

Cop being interviewed on FOX:

- Cops saw Gray doing a drug transaction and that's why they pursued him.

- They did not find any drugs om Gray after the pursuit and capture.

- Toxicology report shows Gray tested positive for heroin and marijuana.

- Cops think Gray may have ingested the heroin.

Hannity had the same guy on earlier. So ingesting heroin would make you break your own spine?

The heroin drug sale is relevant with respect to the charge that it was an unlawful arrest. And he broke his neck. People keep saying his spine which implies a break in the middle of the back. A broken neck can happen very easily Tim. One of my best friends broke his neck skiing when he basically just fell over and hit his head awkwardly. Just curious, what do you think happened? Do you think Officer Goodsen, during one of the stops, went in there and broke his neck?

Honestly, I think they didn't put a seatbelt on him, and he banged around because maybe they made a rough turn, and they didn't respond soon enough. That's what I wrote earlier. That's why the charges seem excessive to me. But I guess we'll find out.

I agree with all that. I also think he may have been seriously injured during the takedown. What scares me is the thought that the driver, Officer Goodsen, is looking at a murder charge and 60 years in prison when it's quite possible his only crime was not buckling a seat belt and following a new procedure that became official policy only two days before the incident. We all know what happens when a cop goes to jail. It's akin to the death penalty.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

I don't know if I can pull off this post.

I have a problem with the indictment. Oh, it is not that I believe that there is any lack of evidence to support the charges. I think that just what has been made public supports the charges. A charge doesn't change a presumption of innocence or the ability to defend the action in answering the separate question of guilt. My problem isn't with any of this.

Instead my problem is that the indictment "says" that this "crime" was the result of six "bad" cops. I'd like to believe that, but I don't. I doubt that these six cops are bad people. I believe that they were dedicated to the goal "to protect and serve". That they were doing the job that they were hired to do. That they were doing the job the same way they had always done it, the same way that their peers perform the job everyday. While I think the community in West Baltimore would of coursed be appalled finding out that this happened - just like the rest of us there wouldn't have been a powder keg if this was just a few bad apples.

So I just can't come to accept that this is an isolated incident with six "bad cops" breaking every policy and procedure and training. No, I think these were likely six good officers practicing following questionable policies with bad procedures and inappropriate "secondary" training. Oh I so want to be wrong about this!

As for the police officers I feel sorry for them. I feel sorry that they were unlucky enough to be the ones where everything finally went wrong and the world noticed. I feel sorry for them exactly the same way I feel sorry for the Florida A&M band members that hazed the drum major to death. Which coincidentally enough.

Hopefully this is somewhat coherent.

 

[squistion]

I hope they take their time with the trials. I'm up for jury duty next month in Baltimore city and got a summons for the state court, but no date yet.

I'd do almost anything to not be on a jury for those cops.

The other prisoner in the van, who simply said that he heard Gray thrashing around in the van, said he fears for his life.

Who simply said? He went beyond saying that Gray was "thrashing around" to claim that Gray was trying to injure himself. And according to NBC Baltimore affiliate, Gray was unresponsive even before this prisoner was loaded in the van. It looks like this guy was lying.

 

[timschochet]

I don't know if I can pull off this post.

I have a problem with the indictment. Oh, it is not that I believe that there is any lack of evidence to support the charges. I think that just what has been made public supports the charges. A charge doesn't change a presumption of innocence or the ability to defend the action in answering the separate question of guilt. My problem isn't with any of this.

Instead my problem is that the indictment "says" that this "crime" was the result of six "bad" cops. I'd like to believe that, but I don't. I doubt that these six cops are bad people. I believe that they were dedicated to the goal "to protect and serve". That they were doing the job that they were hired to do. That they were doing the job the same way they had always done it, the same way that their peers perform the job everyday. While I think the community in West Baltimore would of coursed be appalled finding out that this happened - just like the rest of us there wouldn't have been a powder keg if this was just a few bad apples.

So I just can't come to accept that this is an isolated incident with six "bad cops" breaking every policy and procedure and training. No, I think these were likely six good officers practicing following questionable policies with bad procedures and inappropriate "secondary" training. Oh I so want to be wrong about this!

As for the police officers I feel sorry for them. I feel sorry that they were unlucky enough to be the ones where everything finally went wrong and the world noticed. I feel sorry for them exactly the same way I feel sorry for the Florida A&M band members that hazed the drum major to death. Which coincidentally enough.

Hopefully this is somewhat coherent.

It is and it makes a lot of sense, at least to me.

 

[General Tso]

When the white bicycle cops go free and the black driver/chauffeur goes to jail there will be cries of racism fo sho.

I can guarantee that by the end of the night, now that the race of the officers has been released, that people will start complaining about the black driver getting a stiffer charge than the white officers in the video. Guaranteed.

Nah

Saw TWO interviews tonight that both went like this. Interviewer asks a black man for his thoughts on the indictments. He is very pleased justice has been done. The interviewer informs him that the driver of the van, the one being charged with murder, is black. In BOTH instances the black man being interviewed literally looks taken aback, initially responds by saying race doesn't matter, and then immediately says that Freddie Gray was injured BEFORE he got into the van.I swear, you can't make this #### up. I am convinced that certain black people right now are completely and helplessly racist. They can't even keep it in their subconscious mind anymore.

 

[Tennessee_ATO]

I don't know if I can pull off this post.

I have a problem with the indictment. Oh, it is not that I believe that there is any lack of evidence to support the charges. I think that just what has been made public supports the charges. A charge doesn't change a presumption of innocence or the ability to defend the action in answering the separate question of guilt. My problem isn't with any of this.

Instead my problem is that the indictment "says" that this "crime" was the result of six "bad" cops. I'd like to believe that, but I don't. I doubt that these six cops are bad people. I believe that they were dedicated to the goal "to protect and serve". That they were doing the job that they were hired to do. That they were doing the job the same way they had always done it, the same way that their peers perform the job everyday. While I think the community in West Baltimore would of coursed be appalled finding out that this happened - just like the rest of us there wouldn't have been a powder keg if this was just a few bad apples.

So I just can't come to accept that this is an isolated incident with six "bad cops" breaking every policy and procedure and training. No, I think these were likely six good officers practicing following questionable policies with bad procedures and inappropriate "secondary" training. Oh I so want to be wrong about this!

As for the police officers I feel sorry for them. I feel sorry that they were unlucky enough to be the ones where everything finally went wrong and the world noticed. I feel sorry for them exactly the same way I feel sorry for the Florida A&M band members that hazed the drum major to death. Which coincidentally enough.

Hopefully this is somewhat coherent.

I get the sentiment, but fundamentally a guy was shackled and in the custody of 6 officers and died as a result of a broken neck while in that custody. They became responsible for him as soon as they took control of him, and certainly they became responsible for him once his arms and legs were bound. At that point he literally had no ability to take care of himself. As far as the individual officers, I don't feel sorry for them at all. We all have to take personal responsibility for our own decisions and actions. "It's how we do it" isn't a defense, it's shirking personal responsibility. It's just blame-shifting.

 

[Ghost Rider]

I flipped over and saw Geraldo interview three guys in about a minute. The one white guy and first black guy he interviewed both seemed fairly sensible, but then the 2nd black guy he interviewed, when asked about some of the cops being black, said it was sad that those black cops chose doing their job over protecting those in the neighborhood.