**** Baseball Hall of Fame Thread **** - Ichiro, Sabathia, and Wagner Elected (1 Viewer)

[Don Quixote]

Thought I’d bump with 2024 voting underway… newcomers include Beltre, Mauer, and Utley.

Todd Helton and Billy Wagner among those close last time.

Also, Contemporary Era Committee selections will be announced on 12/3. Lots of managers that are nominees: Cito Gaston, Davey Johnson, Jim Leyland, and Lou Piniella. Also some executives and umpires.

Contemporary Baseball Era Committee candidates announced | Baseball Hall of Fame

baseballhall.org

 

[Bogart]

Beltre is a no brainer, but I'm sure the "not the first year" guys will see things differently.

 

[Don Quixote]

Beltre being up reminded me of this thread. I voted no, but did comment that would change if had five more great years (which he did).

(I also predicted Rolen would never get anywhere close to the Hall, which did not hold up well.)

Adrian Beltre

I was shocked to hear that Beltre - who is just 32 - already has 2000 hits. He also has 299 home runs. Obviously his 2004 season is the outlier, but its certainly conceivable that Beltre could go 3000/400 for his career as a 3B - with only one truly great season.

forums.footballguys.com

 

[Eephus]

Congrats to Jim Leyland. Smoke 'em if you got 'em.

 

[guru_007]

Beltre, A.Jones, Sheffield and Wagner for me.
Coors effect for me is too vote for Helton. Career at Coors, 0.345 ave, 1.048 ops 227 hr's 859 rbi's, career away 0.287, 0.855, 142, 547. Dramatic difference. He was a below average defender and his career oWAR 54.5 is just so-so considering this home field advantage as just a hitter. Still higher than Baines I suppose.
Mauer should get in, just not a first ballot guy imho and that does come into effect.
ManRam and Arod are still both on the ballots and I would vote for both of them as well now that I'm looking at it.

 

[Don Quixote]

Latest update from the tracker so far.

https://x.com/notmrtibbs/status/1742312173316272510?s=46&t=E_-9z4f2KOjMph1q2ukqpw

With 105 ballots revealed/~27.3% known:

Beltré - 98.1%
Helton - 82.9%
Mauer - 82.9%
Wagner - 80.0%
---
Sheffield - 73.3%
Beltrán - 64.8%
Jones - 64.8%
Utley - 44.8%
A-Rod - 43.8%
Ramírez - 41.0%
Abreu - 20.0%
Pettitte - 14.3%
Rollins - 12.4%
Vizquel - 12.4%
Buehrle - 8.6%
K-Rod - 7.6%
Wright - 6.7%
---
Hunter - 1.9%
Bautista - 1.0%
Colón - 1.0%
Holliday - 1.0%

 

[Don Quixote]

Results tonight. Based on the latest Tracker, Beltre, Mauer, Helton, and Wagner above the 75%. But tracker usually is a bit high because those who publicly release ballots tend to have more names on their ballots.

https://x.com/notmrtibbs/status/1749830357120389553?s=61&t=H_x9QHHtveqmaMK5HnP2AA

 

[Don Quixote]

Announcement live now.

No Wagner (fell just short at 73.8%). Just Beltre, Mauer, and Helton this year.

Beltré, Helton, Mauer elected to Hall of Fame by BBWAA | Baseball Hall of Fame

baseballhall.org

 

[PIK95]

So mad right now. Especially because I think Beltre juiced. I really need to stop caring about this stuff. It really is a joke.

 

[Kraft...]

Beltre was an all star 4 times in his career, this is what the HOF has become

 

[Eephus]

Congratulations to the three new members.

The voting process is ridiculous but Beltre, Helton and Mauer all have HOF-worthy resumes.

 

[PIK95]

Beltre was an all star 4 times in his career, this is what the HOF has become

I'm furious over Wagner. Dudes twelve bad post season inning keep him out? He was the best LHP of the last hundred years when you look at advanced metrics. And I'm still mad Baines is in while Dewey, Lou Whitaker, and **** Allen are not for example. Even Dave Parker should be in over Baines. The writers who vote mostly don't deserve to imo.

 

[Eephus]

Beltre was an all star 4 times in his career, this is what the HOF has become

I'm furious over Wagner. Dudes twelve bad post season inning keep him out? He was the best LHP of the last hundred years when you look at advanced metrics. And I'm still mad Baines is in while Dewey, Lou Whitaker, and **** Allen are not for example. Even Dave Parker should be in over Baines. The writers who vote mostly don't deserve to imo.

Baines got in via a veterans committee

 

[PIK95]

Beltre was an all star 4 times in his career, this is what the HOF has become

I'm furious over Wagner. Dudes twelve bad post season inning keep him out? He was the best LHP of the last hundred years when you look at advanced metrics. And I'm still mad Baines is in while Dewey, Lou Whitaker, and **** Allen are not for example. Even Dave Parker should be in over Baines. The writers who vote mostly don't deserve to imo.

Baines got in via a veterans committee

"What's your point Vanessa?"

 

[Eephus]

Beltre was an all star 4 times in his career, this is what the HOF has become

I'm furious over Wagner. Dudes twelve bad post season inning keep him out? He was the best LHP of the last hundred years when you look at advanced metrics. And I'm still mad Baines is in while Dewey, Lou Whitaker, and **** Allen are not for example. Even Dave Parker should be in over Baines. The writers who vote mostly don't deserve to imo.

Baines got in via a veterans committee

"What's your point Vanessa?"

You're ripping the BBWAA who've made a few questionable calls as a group. But these have mostly been errors of exclusion rather than voting in unworthy candidates. Baines was voted in behind closed doors by a small veterans committee; he never appeared on more than 6% of the writers' ballots during his original years of eligibility.

Baines was a DH and a bit of a compiler but he isn't the worst player in the hall. Nor is Billy Wagner the best pitcher on the outside.

 

[PIK95]

Beltre was an all star 4 times in his career, this is what the HOF has become

I'm furious over Wagner. Dudes twelve bad post season inning keep him out? He was the best LHP of the last hundred years when you look at advanced metrics. And I'm still mad Baines is in while Dewey, Lou Whitaker, and **** Allen are not for example. Even Dave Parker should be in over Baines. The writers who vote mostly don't deserve to imo.

Baines got in via a veterans committee

"What's your point Vanessa?"

You're ripping the BBWAA who've made a few questionable calls as a group. But these have mostly been errors of exclusion rather than voting in unworthy candidates. Baines was voted in behind closed doors by a small veterans committee; he never appeared on more than 6% of the writers' ballots during his original years of eligibility.

Baines was a DH and a bit of a compiler but he isn't the worst player in the hall. Nor is Billy Wagner the best pitcher on the outside.

Who is a better pitcher than Wagner on the outside in your opinion? Non Yankees or roids guys only please. Baines was a good player. He's just an easy mark. The hall is a huge mess imo.

I could get behind Rick Reuschel fwiw.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

Congratulations to the three new members.

The voting process is ridiculous but Beltre, Helton and Mauer all have HOF-worthy resumes.

Not really sure about Helton. Numbers inflated somewhat by coors and still not eye popping and also only .90 career shares in mvp voting. Just don’t totally see it.

 

[Eephus]

Who is a better pitcher than Wagner on the outside in your opinion? Non Yankees or roids guys only please. Baines was a good player. He's just an easy mark. The hall is a huge mess imo.

Relievers are tough to quantify. Wagner only threw 900 IP in his career--mostly great and mostly high leverage but that's like two seasons worth of work for Cy Young.

Wagner will get in next year but is he really that much greater than K-Rod who got 7.8% of the vote this year?

 

[Eephus]

Not really sure about Helton. Numbers inflated somewhat by coors and still not eye popping and also only .90 career shares in mvp voting. Just don’t totally see it.

Tough crowd

 

[guru_007]

Beltre was an all star 4 times in his career, this is what the HOF has become

This has to be

Congratulations to the three new members.

The voting process is ridiculous but Beltre, Helton and Mauer all have HOF-worthy resumes.

Not really sure about Helton. Numbers inflated somewhat by coors and still not eye popping and also only .90 career shares in mvp voting. Just don’t totally see it.

Totally agree with Long Ball Larry. Numbers inflated EXTREMELY by Coors. Career at Coors, 0.345 avg, 1.048 ops 227 hr's 859 rbi's, career away 0.287, 0.855, 142, 547. Dramatic difference.
Helton's career oWAR (And let's face it, he was a hitter, not a fielder) was 54.5 and he's a HOF'er. (3 seasons with top 10 MVP votes)
Lance Berkman's career oWAR was 54.0 (6 seasons with top 10 MVP votes)
And Helton played over 2 more full season's than Berkman.

I'm most disappointed I suppose that Andruw Jones didn't get it. That guy was a hall of famer.

 

[Eephus]

I'm not going to rain on Helton's parade because he got the votes while other equally deserving players didn't make the cut. Don't hate the player, hate the game.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

Lou Whitaker

Is this guy ever getting in? His career numbers add up like he should.

 

[Eephus]

Lou Whitaker

Is this guy ever getting in? His career numbers add up like he should.

He didn't even make the finalist list for the last Contemporary Era veterans' committee in 2022. I believe the committees are on a three year cycle so his next opportunity would be in the 2025 committee (induction class of 2026).

They're not going to ask me but I think the HOF should change the veterans' committee format once again. The current system which was introduced recently has a 1980 demarcation between the Classic and Contemporary eras. The pre-1980 candidates have had ample time for their cases to be argued. The various committees have righted their share of historical omissions but Bill Dahlen isn't going to care if he ever makes it in. Future post-1980 committees are going to get inundated by steroid era stars and the politics that come with them which will probably hurt 1980-2000 players like Whitaker.

 

[PIK95]

Lou Whitaker

Is this guy ever getting in? His career numbers add up like he should.

He didn't even make the finalist list for the last Contemporary Era veterans' committee in 2022. I believe the committees are on a three year cycle so his next opportunity would be in the 2025 committee (induction class of 2026).

They're not going to ask me but I think the HOF should change the veterans' committee format once again. The current system which was introduced recently has a 1980 demarcation between the Classic and Contemporary eras. The pre-1980 candidates have had ample time for their cases to be argued. The various committees have righted their share of historical omissions but Bill Dahlen isn't going to care if he ever makes it in. Future post-1980 committees are going to get inundated by steroid era stars and the politics that come with them which will probably hurt 1980-2000 players like Whitaker.

You are right. Those early to mid 80's guys are kinda screwed.

 

[Bogart]

Lou Whitaker

Is this guy ever getting in? His career numbers add up like he should.

He didn't even make the finalist list for the last Contemporary Era veterans' committee in 2022. I believe the committees are on a three year cycle so his next opportunity would be in the 2025 committee (induction class of 2026).

They're not going to ask me but I think the HOF should change the veterans' committee format once again. The current system which was introduced recently has a 1980 demarcation between the Classic and Contemporary eras. The pre-1980 candidates have had ample time for their cases to be argued. The various committees have righted their share of historical omissions but Bill Dahlen isn't going to care if he ever makes it in. Future post-1980 committees are going to get inundated by steroid era stars and the politics that come with them which will probably hurt 1980-2000 players like Whitaker.

Dahlen get screwed again.

Some of us still care.

 

[shuke]

Even Dave Parker should be in over Baines. The writers who vote mostly don't deserve to imo.

Baines was inducted via the veterans committee. He never go more than like 6% from the writers.

 

[shuke]

Even Dave Parker should be in over Baines. The writers who vote mostly don't deserve to imo.

Baines was inducted via the veterans committee. He never go more than like 6% from the writers.

I see this has been covered.

 

[Bogart]

HOF just announced that Beltre is going in as a Ranger. Little doubt, but nice to have it confirmed.

 

[Bogart]

Jim Leyland going in without a logo. Like a coward.

 

[Eephus]

This year's Classic Era Committee ballot does not include WIS favorite Bill Dahlen

**** Allen
Ken Boyer
John Donaldson
Steve Garvey
Vic Harris
Tommy John
Dave Parker
Luis Tiant

No Bobby Grich either.

 

[Skipdog77]

This year's Classic Era Committee ballot does not include WIS favorite Bill Dahlen

**** Allen
Ken Boyer
John Donaldson
Steve Garvey
Vic Harris
Tommy John
Dave Parker
Luis Tiant

No Bobby Grich either.

The Rusty Kuntz Fan Club is outraged at his omission.

 

[BLOCKED_PUNT]

Put Pete Rose in

So much this

 

[Don Quixote]

Classic Era results just announced… D1ck Allen and Dave Parker both going in.

https://baseballhall.org/news/****-...all-of-fame-by-classic-baseball-era-committee

ETA: I can’t even link it because **** is in the URL.

 

[scoobus]

Classic Era results just announced… D1ck Allen and Dave Parker both going in.

https://baseballhall.org/news/****-...all-of-fame-by-classic-baseball-era-committee

ETA: I can’t even link it because **** is in the URL.

@Eephus Do they deserve to go in?

 

[Kraft...]

Classic Era results just announced… D1ck Allen and Dave Parker both going in.

https://baseballhall.org/news/****-...all-of-fame-by-classic-baseball-era-committee

ETA: I can’t even link it because **** is in the URL.

@Eephus Do they deserve to go in?

Definitely both WIS draft HOFers, I rostered them both on more than on occasion

 

[Spartans Rule]

Classic Era results just announced… D1ck Allen and Dave Parker both going in.

https://baseballhall.org/news/****-...all-of-fame-by-classic-baseball-era-committee

ETA: I can’t even link it because **** is in the URL.

@Eephus Do they deserve to go in?

Definitely both WIS draft HOFers, I rostered them both on more than on occasion

Allen was probably #1 on my WIS "How had I never heard of this guy before and why isn't he in the HOF?" list.

 

[Eephus]

Classic Era results just announced… D1ck Allen and Dave Parker both going in.

https://baseballhall.org/news/****-...all-of-fame-by-classic-baseball-era-committee

ETA: I can’t even link it because **** is in the URL.

@Eephus Do they deserve to go in?

I've always been a big hall guy. There have been many people with lesser credentials inducted before.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

Classic Era results just announced… D1ck Allen and Dave Parker both going in.

https://baseballhall.org/news/****-...all-of-fame-by-classic-baseball-era-committee

ETA: I can’t even link it because **** is in the URL.

@Eephus Do they deserve to go in?

Definitely both WIS draft HOFers, I rostered them both on more than on occasion

Allen was probably #1 on my WIS "How had I never heard of this guy before and why isn't he in the HOF?" list.

He was a great player but he was a bit of a head case, had some injuries, and couldn’t stay totally locked in. But he was always a guy that my dad (dyed in the wool Phils fan) revered as a talent. And he had this iconic photo

 

[guru_007]

Just less than 3 weeks till this class is announced. It looks like we'll have Ichiro, CC Sabathia and Billy Wagner going in.
On the cusp is Beltran and Andruw Jones.

I'm good with all 5 going in, but would rather Jones than Beltran if it's just 4. I know his offensive metrics aren't the greatest, but for me, he was the best defensive CF'er I saw in my lifetime. And he started so early on such a great team that was always competing.

 

[Don Quixote]

Here is the tracker for reference: https://www.bbhoftracker.com/2024/11/2025-bbhof-tracker-summary-and-leaderboard/

 

[Don Quixote]

Still just looking like Ichiro, Sabathia, and Wagner. Beltran looking close, but projections are showing him short.

Also some drama to see if Ichiro joins Mariano Rivera in the 100% club.

 

[Don Quixote]

Ichiro one vote shy of 100%, just like Jeter.

 

[Chemical X]

if andruw jones retired after 2007, is he a shoe in?

 

[Eephus]

if andruw jones retired after 2007, is he a shoe in?

Probably not. He was arrested on domestic violence charges on Christmas day 2012 which would have been his first year of HoF eligibility if he'd retired early.

 

[Don Quixote]

if andruw jones retired after 2007, is he a shoe in?

I think it’s just tough for anyone with fewer than 2000 hits to get in. I was just trying to see if I could figure out last batter with less than 2000 hits to get in via the BBWAA, and the last one that I came across looking back on Baseball Reference was Ralph Kiner in 1975. Some have got in through the iterations of the veterans committees since then, but that was last that I see through hall of fame vote.

 

[Eephus]

if andruw jones retired after 2007, is he a shoe in?

I think it’s just tough for anyone with fewer than 2000 hits to get in. I was just trying to see if I could figure out last batter with less than 2000 hits to get in via the BBWAA, and the last one that I came across looking back on Baseball Reference was Ralph Kiner in 1975. Some have got in through the iterations of the veterans committees since then, but that was last that I see through hall of fame vote.

Kiner was a three true outcomes player in his time, always among the league leaders in HR, BB and SO, so H wasn't the best measure of his contributions. Even then, he only squeaked in by a one vote margin in his 13th and final year of eligibility. Kiner stayed in the game as a popular broadcaster which worked in his favor and as far as I can tell, he never beat his wife either (although he did date Janet Leigh for a while).

WAR isn't a perfect metric but it's fascinating (for me ) to look back at the 1975 voting and see (a) how poorly Eddie Mathews fared in his second year of eligibility and (b) the career WAR totals of some of the players on the ballot who've been inducted since.

1975 Hall of Fame Voting | Baseball-Reference.com

1975 Hall of Fame Voting Results. Inducted: Earl Averill,Bucky Harris,Billy Herman,Judy Johnson,Ralph Kiner Find Full Vote Totals and Statistics for all Players Who Were on the Ballot

www.baseball-reference.com

 

[Don Quixote]

if andruw jones retired after 2007, is he a shoe in?

I think it’s just tough for anyone with fewer than 2000 hits to get in. I was just trying to see if I could figure out last batter with less than 2000 hits to get in via the BBWAA, and the last one that I came across looking back on Baseball Reference was Ralph Kiner in 1975. Some have got in through the iterations of the veterans committees since then, but that was last that I see through hall of fame vote.

Kiner was a three true outcomes player in his time, always among the league leaders in HR, BB and SO, so H wasn't the best measure of his contributions. Even then, he only squeaked in by a one vote margin in his 13th and final year of eligibility. Kiner stayed in the game as a popular broadcaster which worked in his favor and as far as I can tell, he never beat his wife either (although he did date Janet Leigh for a while).

WAR isn't a perfect metric but it's fascinating (for me ) to look back at the 1975 voting and see (a) how poorly Eddie Mathews fared in his second year of eligibility and (b) the career WAR totals of some of the players on the ballot who've been inducted since.

1975 Hall of Fame Voting | Baseball-Reference.com

1975 Hall of Fame Voting Results. Inducted: Earl Averill,Bucky Harris,Billy Herman,Judy Johnson,Ralph Kiner Find Full Vote Totals and Statistics for all Players Who Were on the Ballot

www.baseball-reference.com

Also makes Ken Boyer look pretty shafted. His 62.8 is much better WAR than many of the others that got in. Only 2.5% in first year on ballot. I suppose this was at least before the 5% rule was put in place, so he was able to stay on the ballot. But never got higher than his 25.5% in 1988.

 

[Eephus]

if andruw jones retired after 2007, is he a shoe in?

I think it’s just tough for anyone with fewer than 2000 hits to get in. I was just trying to see if I could figure out last batter with less than 2000 hits to get in via the BBWAA, and the last one that I came across looking back on Baseball Reference was Ralph Kiner in 1975. Some have got in through the iterations of the veterans committees since then, but that was last that I see through hall of fame vote.

Kiner was a three true outcomes player in his time, always among the league leaders in HR, BB and SO, so H wasn't the best measure of his contributions. Even then, he only squeaked in by a one vote margin in his 13th and final year of eligibility. Kiner stayed in the game as a popular broadcaster which worked in his favor and as far as I can tell, he never beat his wife either (although he did date Janet Leigh for a while).

WAR isn't a perfect metric but it's fascinating (for me ) to look back at the 1975 voting and see (a) how poorly Eddie Mathews fared in his second year of eligibility and (b) the career WAR totals of some of the players on the ballot who've been inducted since.

1975 Hall of Fame Voting | Baseball-Reference.com

1975 Hall of Fame Voting Results. Inducted: Earl Averill,Bucky Harris,Billy Herman,Judy Johnson,Ralph Kiner Find Full Vote Totals and Statistics for all Players Who Were on the Ballot

www.baseball-reference.com

Also makes Ken Boyer look pretty shafted. His 62.8 is much better WAR than many of the others that got in. Only 2.5% in first year on ballot. I suppose this was at least before the 5% rule was put in place, so he was able to stay on the ballot. But never got higher than his 25.5% in 1988.

Boyer had a split candidacy. He had five years on the writers' ballot from 1975-79, never reaching 5% during some very stacked years. He reappeared in 1985 and did better this time around but still not enough to get close. Presumably his second at bat with the writers had something to do with his managerial career but going under .500 in three years managing the Cardinals didn't really change things. He had died young in the interim which may have earned him some sympathy votes.

Those St. Louis teams he managed must have had an interesting clubhouse with Ted Simmons, Keith Hernandez, Garry Templeton, Pete Vuckovich, Lou Brock, George Hendrick and the list goes on.

 

[Eephus]

When do pitchers and catchers report again?