Belichick statement to SpyGate (1 Viewer)

[nerangers]

Belichick statement

By Mike Reiss, Globe Staff

Patriots coach Bill Belichick released the following statement tonight:

"I accept full responsibility for the actions that led to tonight's ruling. Once again, I apologize to the Kraft family and every person directly or indirectly associated with the New England Patriots for the embarrassment, distraction and penalty my mistake caused. I also apologize to Patriots fans and would like to thank them for their support during the past few days and throughout my career.

"As the Commissioner acknowledged, our use of sideline video had no impact on the outcome of last week's game. We have never used sideline video to obtain a competitive advantage while the game was in progress.

"Part of my job as head coach is to ensure that our football operations are conducted in compliance of the league rules and all accepted interpretations of them. My interpretation of a rule in the Constitution and Bylaws was incorrect.

"With tonight’s resolution, I will not be offering any further comments on this matter. We are moving on with our preparations for Sunday’s game."

- interpretation of the rules???? BB just does not get it! As a Patriot fan, I am disgusted! Plus Goodall should have suspended him!

 

[Sopranos]

Weak

 

[zoonation]

way to accept responsibility guy. or not at all.

translation: I didn't cheat, I was misinformed about a rule.

 

[CrossEyed]

 

[Mr. Sparkle]

yeah right.

 

[Big Dumb Ape]

Did anybody really expect anything more than this?

 

[Winston Wolfe]

Food for thought. If Goodell was fining BB for violating a rule, why did he not say that instead of "This episode represents a calculated and deliberate attempt to avoid longstanding rules designed to encourage fair play and promote honest competition on the playing field,"?

 

[Ghost Rider]

I wonder who wrote that.

Oh, and LOL at Belichick still saying that he misinterpreted a rule, rather than just admitting that he cheated. The comparisons to Barry Bonds just get stronger and stronger!

 

[suchislife]

Belichick statement

By Mike Reiss, Globe Staff

Patriots coach Bill Belichick released the following statement tonight:

"I accept full responsibility for the actions that led to tonight's ruling. Once again, I apologize to the Kraft family and every person directly or indirectly associated with the New England Patriots for the embarrassment, distraction and penalty my mistake caused. I also apologize to Patriots fans and would like to thank them for their support during the past few days and throughout my career.

"As the Commissioner acknowledged, our use of sideline video had no impact on the outcome of last week's game. We have never used sideline video to obtain a competitive advantage while the game was in progress.

"Part of my job as head coach is to ensure that our football operations are conducted in compliance of the league rules and all accepted interpretations of them. My interpretation of a rule in the Constitution and Bylaws was incorrect.

"With tonight’s resolution, I will not be offering any further comments on this matter. We are moving on with our preparations for Sunday’s game."

- interpretation of the rules???? BB just does not get it! As a Patriot fan, I am disgusted! Plus Goodall should have suspended him!

So, you potentially cost your team a first round pick, issue a vague statement then say you won't answer any more questions. Way to own up

 

[switz]

Food for thought. If Goodell was fining BB for violating a rule, why did he not say that instead of "This episode represents a calculated and deliberate attempt to avoid longstanding rules designed to encourage fair play and promote honest competition on the playing field,"?

I think Goodell DID say BB violated a rule.

 

[Michael Fox Fan]

belichick = cheater

 

[cobalt_27]

Food for thought. If Goodell was fining BB for violating a rule, why did he not say that instead of "This episode represents a calculated and deliberate attempt to avoid longstanding rules designed to encourage fair play and promote honest competition on the playing field,"?

I think Goodell DID say BB violated a rule.

Exactly.And, he couldn't say anything about avoiding "longstanding" rules because there weren't any longstanding rules in place against this.

 

[Winston Wolfe]

Food for thought. If Goodell was fining BB for violating a rule, why did he not say that instead of "This episode represents a calculated and deliberate attempt to avoid longstanding rules designed to encourage fair play and promote honest competition on the playing field,"?

I think Goodell DID say BB violated a rule.

Exactly.And, he couldn't say anything about avoiding "longstanding" rules because there weren't any longstanding rules in place against this.

I believe you are mistaken because the news outlets are quoting the commish exactly as I posted.

 

[Winston Wolfe]

Food for thought. If Goodell was fining BB for violating a rule, why did he not say that instead of "This episode represents a calculated and deliberate attempt to avoid longstanding rules designed to encourage fair play and promote honest competition on the playing field,"?

I think Goodell DID say BB violated a rule.

I might be in the minority, but I read his statement as BB tried circumvent the rules somehow.Also, I don't condone or defend what BB has done in any way. I just believe the commish's statement is worded curiously, hence the "food for thought"

 

[PhD]

You want food for thought? How about this (taken from various sources):

Antisocial Personality Disorder:

A psychiatric condition characterized by an individual's common disregard for social rules, norms, and cultural codes, as well as impulsive behavior, and indifference to the rights and feelings of others. Antisocial personality disorder is terminology used by the American Psychiatric Association's Diagnostic and Statistical Manual, while the World Health Organization's ICD-10 refers to Dissocial personality disorder. People diagnosed with this disorder are typically called Sociopaths.

Central to identifying individuals exhibiting characteristics of the disorder is that they appear to experience a limited range of human emotions. This can explain their lack of empathy for the suffering of others, since they cannot experience the emotion associated with either empathy or suffering.

The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, a widely used manual for diagnosing mental and behavioral disorders, defines antisocial personality disorder as a pervasive pattern of disregard for and violation of the rights of others occurring since age 15vc, as indicated by three (or more) of the following:

1. failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors

2. deceitfulness, as indicated by repeated lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure

3. impulsivity or failure to plan ahead

4. irritability and aggressiveness

5. reckless disregard for safety of self or others

6. consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain steady work or honor financial obligations

7. lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another

 

[Joe Bryant]

"As the Commissioner acknowledged, our use of sideline video had no impact on the outcome of last week's game. We have never used sideline video to obtain a competitive advantage while the game was in progress.

I may have missed it but how how did Goodell acknowledge this?And he never used this to gain an advantage? What were they taping it for then?I've always respected Belichick but that's pretty weak.J

 

[switz]

Food for thought. If Goodell was fining BB for violating a rule, why did he not say that instead of "This episode represents a calculated and deliberate attempt to avoid longstanding rules designed to encourage fair play and promote honest competition on the playing field,"?

I think Goodell DID say BB violated a rule.

Exactly.And, he couldn't say anything about avoiding "longstanding" rules because there weren't any longstanding rules in place against this.

I believe you are mistaken because the news outlets are quoting the commish exactly as I posted.

I'm not doubting that's exactly what he said. I just don't think you understand what the commissioner said.

 

[switz]

"As the Commissioner acknowledged, our use of sideline video had no impact on the outcome of last week's game. We have never used sideline video to obtain a competitive advantage while the game was in progress.

I may have missed it but how how did Goodell acknowledge this?And he never used this to gain an advantage? What were they taping it for then?I've always respected Belichick but that's pretty weak.J

I believe he's saying "while the game is in progress" - in other words, their cheating was only used for the next time they played that team, not the current time they were taping. In other words, Belichek is a cheater AND a liar.

 

[switz]

You want food for thought? How about this (taken from various sources):

Antisocial Personality Disorder:

A psychiatric condition characterized by an individual's common disregard for social rules, norms, and cultural codes, as well as impulsive behavior, and indifference to the rights and feelings of others. Antisocial personality disorder is terminology used by the American Psychiatric Association's Diagnostic and Statistical Manual, while the World Health Organization's ICD-10 refers to Dissocial personality disorder. People diagnosed with this disorder are typically called Sociopaths.

Central to identifying individuals exhibiting characteristics of the disorder is that they appear to experience a limited range of human emotions. This can explain their lack of empathy for the suffering of others, since they cannot experience the emotion associated with either empathy or suffering.

The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, a widely used manual for diagnosing mental and behavioral disorders, defines antisocial personality disorder as a pervasive pattern of disregard for and violation of the rights of others occurring since age 15vc, as indicated by three (or more) of the following:

1. failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors

2. deceitfulness, as indicated by repeated lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure

3. impulsivity or failure to plan ahead

4. irritability and aggressiveness

5. reckless disregard for safety of self or others

6. consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain steady work or honor financial obligations

7. lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another

Some "social disorders" are just fancy names for immoral people.A sociopath is someone who knows whats wrong and doesn't care - just because it's given a name doesn't mean it's excusable. Very different form a psychopath who is convinced what they are doing is right.

 

[mad sweeney]

"As the Commissioner acknowledged, our use of sideline video had no impact on the outcome of last week's game. We have never used sideline video to obtain a competitive advantage while the game was in progress.

I may have missed it but how how did Goodell acknowledge this?And he never used this to gain an advantage? What were they taping it for then?I've always respected Belichick but that's pretty weak.J

He's saying he never used it in the game that was being taped. Like they need to tape GB for when they play each other again in 4 years. Don't recall Goodell ever saying it didn't affect the Jets game, and it seems like a pretty harsh penalty for just a misinterpretation that resulted in no advantages. Belicheat is a permanent turd.

 

[mad sweeney]

You want food for thought? How about this (taken from various sources):

Antisocial Personality Disorder:

A psychiatric condition characterized by an individual's common disregard for social rules, norms, and cultural codes, as well as impulsive behavior, and indifference to the rights and feelings of others. Antisocial personality disorder is terminology used by the American Psychiatric Association's Diagnostic and Statistical Manual, while the World Health Organization's ICD-10 refers to Dissocial personality disorder. People diagnosed with this disorder are typically called Sociopaths.

Central to identifying individuals exhibiting characteristics of the disorder is that they appear to experience a limited range of human emotions. This can explain their lack of empathy for the suffering of others, since they cannot experience the emotion associated with either empathy or suffering.

The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, a widely used manual for diagnosing mental and behavioral disorders, defines antisocial personality disorder as a pervasive pattern of disregard for and violation of the rights of others occurring since age 15vc, as indicated by three (or more) of the following:

1. failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors

2. deceitfulness, as indicated by repeated lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure

3. impulsivity or failure to plan ahead

4. irritability and aggressiveness

5. reckless disregard for safety of self or others

6. consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain steady work or honor financial obligations

7. lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another

Some "social disorders" are just fancy names for immoral people.A sociopath is someone who knows whats wrong and doesn't care - just because it's given a name doesn't mean it's excusable. Very different form a psychopath who is convinced what they are doing is right.

He's certainly not guilty of 3 or 6. But ask former LB Johnson about 5.

 

[imeimex]

I wonder who wrote that.

The same people who wrote the Pres. speech tonight, along with the Dem. response.Say nothing, admit nothing, respond to nothing, try to deflect attention elsewhere.

 

[Winston Wolfe]

Food for thought. If Goodell was fining BB for violating a rule, why did he not say that instead of "This episode represents a calculated and deliberate attempt to avoid longstanding rules designed to encourage fair play and promote honest competition on the playing field,"?

I think Goodell DID say BB violated a rule.

Exactly.And, he couldn't say anything about avoiding "longstanding" rules because there weren't any longstanding rules in place against this.

I believe you are mistaken because the news outlets are quoting the commish exactly as I posted.

I'm not doubting that's exactly what he said. I just don't think you understand what the commissioner said.

Hence "food for thought".

 

[tombonneau]

I'm pretty sure BB wouldn't have issued that statement without The Mighty Zod having reviewed it. I'd be highly surprised if it didn't have His blessing.

 

[Koya]

Who had Belichick in the FFA all time draft? F'n cheating bastards.

 

[PhD]

You want food for thought? How about this (taken from various sources):

Antisocial Personality Disorder:

A psychiatric condition characterized by an individual's common disregard for social rules, norms, and cultural codes, as well as impulsive behavior, and indifference to the rights and feelings of others. Antisocial personality disorder is terminology used by the American Psychiatric Association's Diagnostic and Statistical Manual, while the World Health Organization's ICD-10 refers to Dissocial personality disorder. People diagnosed with this disorder are typically called Sociopaths.

Central to identifying individuals exhibiting characteristics of the disorder is that they appear to experience a limited range of human emotions. This can explain their lack of empathy for the suffering of others, since they cannot experience the emotion associated with either empathy or suffering.

The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, a widely used manual for diagnosing mental and behavioral disorders, defines antisocial personality disorder as a pervasive pattern of disregard for and violation of the rights of others occurring since age 15vc, as indicated by three (or more) of the following:

1. failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors

2. deceitfulness, as indicated by repeated lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure

3. impulsivity or failure to plan ahead

4. irritability and aggressiveness

5. reckless disregard for safety of self or others

6. consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain steady work or honor financial obligations

7. lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another

Some "social disorders" are just fancy names for immoral people.A sociopath is someone who knows whats wrong and doesn't care - just because it's given a name doesn't mean it's excusable. Very different form a psychopath who is convinced what they are doing is right.

No doubt. The post wasn't trying to excuse. Quite the opposite in fact. As for distinguishing the sociopath from the psychopath - psychopaths are not always so convinced that they are doing the right thing, but the key is the break from reality. The biggest difference might be in motivation - you often know you are dealing with a socipath based on their lack of conformity. Psychopaths are the ones that fool you. They are the "charming fellows" who have the serial killing spree.

 

[AngryPatriot]

I am very proud of Belichick and his statement reflects the type of man he is: an honorable man. I am also, once again, proud to be a tiny part of the model organization that is the New England Patriots. Some of you need to stop hating other teams and take pride in your own.

 

[Koya]

I am very proud of Belichick and his statement reflects the type of man he is: an honorable man. I am also, once again, proud to be a tiny part of the model organization that is the New England Patriots. Some of you need to stop hating other teams and take pride in your own.

(this IS right? a model of what? cheating and cowardice?)

 

[Phlash]

I am very proud of Belichick and his statement reflects the type of man he is: an honorable man. I am also, once again, proud to be a tiny part of the model organization that is the New England Patriots. Some of you need to stop hating other teams and take pride in your own.

(this IS right? a model of what? cheating and cowardice?)

Huh? Whats your definition of cheating? Because it must be different than the commish's because from his statement it isn't cheating to him.Also, cowardice? THAT is a massive attempt right there. Stay classy.

 

[Raider Nation]

"As the Commissioner acknowledged, our use of sideline video had no impact on the outcome of last week's game. We have never used sideline video to obtain a competitive advantage while the game was in progress.

And he never used this to gain an advantage? What were they taping it for then?

This is the question for which I'd like a plausible answer.(HINT: There isn't one, so don't hold your breath waiting for one.)

 

[Pat Patriot]

"As the Commissioner acknowledged, our use of sideline video had no impact on the outcome of last week's game. We have never used sideline video to obtain a competitive advantage while the game was in progress.

And he never used this to gain an advantage? What were they taping it for then?

This is the question for which I'd like a plausible answer.(HINT: There isn't one, so don't hold your breath waiting for one.)

I'd like to hear an explanation as well but what he is saying is that they were taping it as part of advance scouting for the next meeting with the Jets. Doesnt explain the little issue in GB though since they only play them once every 4 years. Although, the tape was never confiscated in GB so that situation is not quite as clear as this one.

 

[Koya]

I am very proud of Belichick and his statement reflects the type of man he is: an honorable man. I am also, once again, proud to be a tiny part of the model organization that is the New England Patriots. Some of you need to stop hating other teams and take pride in your own.

(this IS right? a model of what? cheating and cowardice?)

Huh? Whats your definition of cheating? Because it must be different than the commish's because from his statement it isn't cheating to him.Also, cowardice? THAT is a massive attempt right there. Stay classy.

How is it fishing? The man is incapable of admitting fault. The man is SCARED of it. As he seems so scared of failure (cleveland memories, anyone?) that he would rather win without honor than lose with it. Too tired to really get into it, but these are my sentiments.

 

[tombonneau]

Not sure if this was brought up yet in the Pool, if not might deserve its own post, but for everyone crying about how taping is different than "normal" sign stealing bc it gives BB an unfair advantage that "normal" sign stealing doesn't, I point you to Exhibit A, a 5-year old SI article about sign stealing in which Shanahan brags:

[qoute]

It's no rumor, pal. "Our guy keeps a pair of binoculars on their signal-callers every game," says Broncos coach Mike Shanahan. "With any luck, we have their defensive signals figured out by halftime. Sometimes, by the end of the first quarter."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_ga...life_of_reilly/

So please explain to me again how video taping it is such a unfair advantage? I'm curious?

 

[Raider Nation]

Not sure if this was brought up yet in the Pool, if not might deserve its own post, but for everyone crying about how taping is different than "normal" sign stealing bc it gives BB an unfair advantage that "normal" sign stealing doesn't, I point you to Exhibit A, a 5-year old SI article about sign stealing in which Shanahan brags:

It's no rumor, pal. "Our guy keeps a pair of binoculars on their signal-callers every game," says Broncos coach Mike Shanahan. "With any luck, we have their defensive signals figured out by halftime. Sometimes, by the end of the first quarter."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_ga...life_of_reilly/So please explain to me again how video taping it is such a unfair advantage? I'm curious?

Because it's expressly forbidden by rule.

 

[David Dodds]

I seriously think the Commish found a lot more damaging evidence than this one videotape. He called off the meeting with Belicheck yet gave him the maximum $ fine possible? Does anyone think he believes this was a one-time video infraction?

My take:

- Commish belives that this has been going on for a LONG time with the Patriots. It could include video, audio, etc.

- Everyone loses if this is shown to have existed for a LONG time as it puts into major question the Super Bowl wins, key comebacks, etc. Everyone can speculate now, but if long-standing abuse was shown this would really tarnish the league going forward.

- I don't think the Commish believes this did not impact current games played, but knows to put that into question then the integrity of the whole league is at risk. It's a slippery slope that he would prefer not to go down.

- The Commish likely also believes at least a few other teams are doing this and made this sentence sting to curtail this as much as possible with other franchises going forward. No coach wants to pay a $500K fine. And many coaches could get fired over it from their bosses. That coupled with draft picks should curtail this happening again this season at least.

- I am guessing the Commish also told every NFL team that he won't stand for cheating (nor to a lesser extent whistle blowing) that brings the league into negative discussions. And I am guessing he told everyone that the next offense by any coach circumventing this will be dealt with severely. This was a major stain on the integrity of the game. The maximum fine was made to set a precedent that will only be greater if some other team is caught cheating by using videotape / stealing opponent's radio transmissions, etc.

- There was never a chance that a game would be forfeited. The second you do that and this story has legs forever. People that lost money betting on the Jets want their money back, etc. Fantasy players want the stats erased. It's a house of cards I doubt we would ever see because it would keep the story in the news for a very long time.

- I think the Commish felt like he had enough info to suspend Belicheck games. But doing so would likely lead to other coaches coming under scrutiny, etc and he knew it was best to not go that route. The NFL needs this story to die. The money is significant to the average fan and is a deterrent to every other coach. He knows the Patriots organization will likely pay the fine (give BB a raise down the road, etc). I think this penalty had a lot more to do with perception of being a harsh penalty and deterring this from continuing league-wide.

- For those wanting more blood, don't forget that this will indeed stain the legacy of Belicheck, Brady and the Patriots Super Bowl wins. That's a very big deal in my opinion.

- The game will clearly recover and all likely be forgotten soon. If nothing else, I think this set a precedent that cheating will be dealt with severely and that's good for everyone. Time to move on in my opinion. Many more games to be played.

 

[tombonneau]

Not sure if this was brought up yet in the Pool, if not might deserve its own post, but for everyone crying about how taping is different than "normal" sign stealing bc it gives BB an unfair advantage that "normal" sign stealing doesn't, I point you to Exhibit A, a 5-year old SI article about sign stealing in which Shanahan brags:

It's no rumor, pal. "Our guy keeps a pair of binoculars on their signal-callers every game," says Broncos coach Mike Shanahan. "With any luck, we have their defensive signals figured out by halftime. Sometimes, by the end of the first quarter."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_ga...life_of_reilly/So please explain to me again how video taping it is such a unfair advantage? I'm curious?

Because it's expressly forbidden by rule.

No, the rule says it is forbidden. It doesn't say how it is more of an advantage. You are parroting a rule. You are not telling me in your own words and thoughts how you think that taping is more advantageous than having a human being with binoculars figure signals out in one quarter.

If you want to just sit back and blindly think the rule is right, fine by me. Just don't chime in.

 

[Raider Nation]

Not sure if this was brought up yet in the Pool, if not might deserve its own post, but for everyone crying about how taping is different than "normal" sign stealing bc it gives BB an unfair advantage that "normal" sign stealing doesn't, I point you to Exhibit A, a 5-year old SI article about sign stealing in which Shanahan brags:

It's no rumor, pal. "Our guy keeps a pair of binoculars on their signal-callers every game," says Broncos coach Mike Shanahan. "With any luck, we have their defensive signals figured out by halftime. Sometimes, by the end of the first quarter."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_ga...life_of_reilly/So please explain to me again how video taping it is such a unfair advantage? I'm curious?

Because it's expressly forbidden by rule.

No, the rule says it is forbidden. It doesn't say how it is more of an advantage. You are parroting a rule. You are not telling me in your own words and thoughts how you think that taping is more advantageous than having a human being with binoculars figure signals out in one quarter.

If you want to just sit back and blindly think the rule is right, fine by me. Just don't chime in.

Relax, Richard. I misread the question. Binoculars = having to recall at a later time what you think you saw, then relay it to the coach and PRAY you're correct.

Videotaping = it's right there in front of you to study over and over and over. The tape doesn't lie.

 

[sts911911]

Not sure if this was brought up yet in the Pool, if not might deserve its own post, but for everyone crying about how taping is different than "normal" sign stealing bc it gives BB an unfair advantage that "normal" sign stealing doesn't, I point you to Exhibit A, a 5-year old SI article about sign stealing in which Shanahan brags:

It's no rumor, pal. "Our guy keeps a pair of binoculars on their signal-callers every game," says Broncos coach Mike Shanahan. "With any luck, we have their defensive signals figured out by halftime. Sometimes, by the end of the first quarter."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_ga...life_of_reilly/So please explain to me again how video taping it is such a unfair advantage? I'm curious?

Because it's expressly forbidden by rule.

No, the rule says it is forbidden. It doesn't say how it is more of an advantage. You are parroting a rule. You are not telling me in your own words and thoughts how you think that taping is more advantageous than having a human being with binoculars figure signals out in one quarter.

If you want to just sit back and blindly think the rule is right, fine by me. Just don't chime in.

Relax, Richard. I misread the question. Binoculars = having to recall at a later time what you think you saw, then relay it to the coach and PRAY you're correct.

Videotaping = it's right there in front of you to study over and over and over. The tape doesn't lie.

Two wrongs don't make a right, using other cheaters to rationalize your boy getting off the hook is weak...

 

[Raider Nation]

Not sure if this was brought up yet in the Pool, if not might deserve its own post, but for everyone crying about how taping is different than "normal" sign stealing bc it gives BB an unfair advantage that "normal" sign stealing doesn't, I point you to Exhibit A, a 5-year old SI article about sign stealing in which Shanahan brags:

It's no rumor, pal. "Our guy keeps a pair of binoculars on their signal-callers every game," says Broncos coach Mike Shanahan. "With any luck, we have their defensive signals figured out by halftime. Sometimes, by the end of the first quarter."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_ga...life_of_reilly/So please explain to me again how video taping it is such a unfair advantage? I'm curious?

Because it's expressly forbidden by rule.

No, the rule says it is forbidden. It doesn't say how it is more of an advantage. You are parroting a rule. You are not telling me in your own words and thoughts how you think that taping is more advantageous than having a human being with binoculars figure signals out in one quarter.

If you want to just sit back and blindly think the rule is right, fine by me. Just don't chime in.

Relax, Richard. I misread the question. Binoculars = having to recall at a later time what you think you saw, then relay it to the coach and PRAY you're correct.

Videotaping = it's right there in front of you to study over and over and over. The tape doesn't lie.

Two wrongs don't make a right, using other cheaters to rationalize your boy getting off the hook is weak...

Who's rationalizing anything? I think both acts are wrong. He asked; I answered.

 

[tombonneau]

Not sure if this was brought up yet in the Pool, if not might deserve its own post, but for everyone crying about how taping is different than "normal" sign stealing bc it gives BB an unfair advantage that "normal" sign stealing doesn't, I point you to Exhibit A, a 5-year old SI article about sign stealing in which Shanahan brags:

It's no rumor, pal. "Our guy keeps a pair of binoculars on their signal-callers every game," says Broncos coach Mike Shanahan. "With any luck, we have their defensive signals figured out by halftime. Sometimes, by the end of the first quarter."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_ga...life_of_reilly/So please explain to me again how video taping it is such a unfair advantage? I'm curious?

Because it's expressly forbidden by rule.

No, the rule says it is forbidden. It doesn't say how it is more of an advantage. You are parroting a rule. You are not telling me in your own words and thoughts how you think that taping is more advantageous than having a human being with binoculars figure signals out in one quarter.

If you want to just sit back and blindly think the rule is right, fine by me. Just don't chime in.

Relax, Richard. I misread the question. Binoculars = having to recall at a later time what you think you saw, then relay it to the coach and PRAY you're correct.

Videotaping = it's right there in front of you to study over and over and over. The tape doesn't lie.

Two wrongs don't make a right, using other cheaters to rationalize your boy getting off the hook is weak...

But according the NFL what the Broncos do is not against league rules. And I'd hardly say BB got off the hook with $500k fine. He's got mony, but he's not making MLB relief pitcher money.

Oh, and I'm pretty sure having nearly the entire population think you are a cheater, fraud, disgrace, never earned any of your SBs, etc., doesn't qualify as getting off the hook. (Esp. for someone who is such a student of history as BB.)

 

[Phlash]

I am very proud of Belichick and his statement reflects the type of man he is: an honorable man. I am also, once again, proud to be a tiny part of the model organization that is the New England Patriots. Some of you need to stop hating other teams and take pride in your own.

(this IS right? a model of what? cheating and cowardice?)

Huh? Whats your definition of cheating? Because it must be different than the commish's because from his statement it isn't cheating to him.Also, cowardice? THAT is a massive attempt right there. Stay classy.

How is it fishing? The man is incapable of admitting fault. The man is SCARED of it. As he seems so scared of failure (cleveland memories, anyone?) that he would rather win without honor than lose with it. Too tired to really get into it, but these are my sentiments.

Maybe he doesn't think he's at fault? If thats the case, then he obviously won't admit to being wrong. If you were accused of cheating but you felt as though you were exploiting a loophole to get an advantage, and then got reamed because of it, would that make you admit that you are wrong? Or would you stick with your side of the story? I'm assuming you'd do the latter, as anybody who has any semblance of self-esteem would. You gotta stick up for what you believe in even when people doubt you - thats more of a sign of a strong character than it is a sign of weakness. Take it as you will.

 

[tombonneau]

Not sure if this was brought up yet in the Pool, if not might deserve its own post, but for everyone crying about how taping is different than "normal" sign stealing bc it gives BB an unfair advantage that "normal" sign stealing doesn't, I point you to Exhibit A, a 5-year old SI article about sign stealing in which Shanahan brags:

It's no rumor, pal. "Our guy keeps a pair of binoculars on their signal-callers every game," says Broncos coach Mike Shanahan. "With any luck, we have their defensive signals figured out by halftime. Sometimes, by the end of the first quarter."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_ga...life_of_reilly/So please explain to me again how video taping it is such a unfair advantage? I'm curious?

Because it's expressly forbidden by rule.

No, the rule says it is forbidden. It doesn't say how it is more of an advantage. You are parroting a rule. You are not telling me in your own words and thoughts how you think that taping is more advantageous than having a human being with binoculars figure signals out in one quarter.

If you want to just sit back and blindly think the rule is right, fine by me. Just don't chime in.

Relax, Richard. I misread the question. Binoculars = having to recall at a later time what you think you saw, then relay it to the coach and PRAY you're correct.

Videotaping = it's right there in front of you to study over and over and over. The tape doesn't lie.

To which I would amend: Videotaping = it's right there in front of you to study over and over and over. Relay it to the coach and PRAY they didn't switch up their signs.

Anyway, RN, you're a good poster, I don't want to get into it with you. And I'm 3.5 Pacificos deep which has finally helped to calm me down a bit.

 

[tombonneau]

I am very proud of Belichick and his statement reflects the type of man he is: an honorable man. I am also, once again, proud to be a tiny part of the model organization that is the New England Patriots. Some of you need to stop hating other teams and take pride in your own.

(this IS right? a model of what? cheating and cowardice?)

Huh? Whats your definition of cheating? Because it must be different than the commish's because from his statement it isn't cheating to him.Also, cowardice? THAT is a massive attempt right there. Stay classy.

How is it fishing? The man is incapable of admitting fault. The man is SCARED of it. As he seems so scared of failure (cleveland memories, anyone?) that he would rather win without honor than lose with it. Too tired to really get into it, but these are my sentiments.

Maybe he doesn't think he's at fault? If thats the case, then he obviously won't admit to being wrong. If you were accused of cheating but you felt as though you were exploiting a loophole to get an advantage, and then got reamed because of it, would that make you admit that you are wrong? Or would you stick with your side of the story? I'm assuming you'd do the latter, as anybody who has any semblance of self-esteem would. You gotta stick up for what you believe in even when people doubt you - thats more of a sign of a strong character than it is a sign of weakness. Take it as you will.

Poster on a Pats board said BB was like a real-life Howard Roark. For those who have read the Fountainhead, it's an apt comparison.

 

[mad sweeney]

I seriously think the Commish found a lot more damaging evidence than this one videotape. He called off the meeting with Belicheck yet gave him the maximum $ fine possible? Does anyone think he believes this was a one-time video infraction?

My take:

- Commish belives that this has been going on for a LONG time with the Patriots. It could include video, audio, etc.

- Everyone loses if this is shown to have existed for a LONG time as it puts into major question the Super Bowl wins, key comebacks, etc. Everyone can speculate now, but if long-standing abuse was shown this would really tarnish the league going forward.

- I don't think the Commish believes this did not impact current games played, but knows to put that into question then the integrity of the whole league is at risk. It's a slippery slope that he would prefer not to go down.

- The Commish likely also believes at least a few other teams are doing this and made this sentence sting to curtail this as much as possible with other franchises going forward. No coach wants to pay a $500K fine. And many coaches could get fired over it from their bosses. That coupled with draft picks should curtail this happening again this season at least.

- I am guessing the Commish also told every NFL team that he won't stand for cheating (nor to a lesser extent whistle blowing) that brings the league into negative discussions. And I am guessing he told everyone that the next offense by any coach circumventing this will be dealt with severely. This was a major stain on the integrity of the game. The maximum fine was made to set a precedent that will only be greater if some other team is caught cheating by using videotape / stealing opponent's radio transmissions, etc.

- There was never a chance that a game would be forfeited. The second you do that and this story has legs forever. People that lost money betting on the Jets want their money back, etc. Fantasy players want the stats erased. It's a house of cards I doubt we would ever see because it would keep the story in the news for a very long time.

- I think the Commish felt like he had enough info to suspend Belicheck games. But doing so would likely lead to other coaches coming under scrutiny, etc and he knew it was best to not go that route. The NFL needs this story to die. The money is significant to the average fan and is a deterrent to every other coach. He knows the Patriots organization will likely pay the fine (give BB a raise down the road, etc). I think this penalty had a lot more to do with perception of being a harsh penalty and deterring this from continuing league-wide.

- For those wanting more blood, don't forget that this will indeed stain the legacy of Belicheck, Brady and the Patriots Super Bowl wins. That's a very big deal in my opinion.

- The game will clearly recover and all likely be forgotten soon. If nothing else, I think this set a precedent that cheating will be dealt with severely and that's good for everyone. Time to move on in my opinion. Many more games to be played.

All very good points. There is more to this than we will ever know, just as there has been more in the other hot button topics over the summer.

There is simply no reason to keep on believing that this is not a big deal when you look at the punishment handed down.

 

[GregR_2]

Not sure if this was brought up yet in the Pool, if not might deserve its own post, but for everyone crying about how taping is different than "normal" sign stealing bc it gives BB an unfair advantage that "normal" sign stealing doesn't, I point you to Exhibit A, a 5-year old SI article about sign stealing in which Shanahan brags:

It's no rumor, pal. "Our guy keeps a pair of binoculars on their signal-callers every game," says Broncos coach Mike Shanahan. "With any luck, we have their defensive signals figured out by halftime. Sometimes, by the end of the first quarter."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_ga...life_of_reilly/So please explain to me again how video taping it is such a unfair advantage? I'm curious?

If you really need it explained, sure thing.Video tapes can be replayed to make sure what you saw. What you see with your eyes cannot.

Video tapes can be directly shown to other people and to as many people as you want. What you see with your eyes cannot.

Video tapes can have their images printed out and synced up with snapshots of the defensive alignment that resulted on that play. What you see with your eyes cannot.

Video tapes can be archived and kept on hand and reviewed at any point in the future without losing any detail. What you see with your eyes cannot.

Video tapes are a type of electronic technology which in this case is being used for spying. Eyes can also be used for spying. But there are also a lot of other methods of spying such as bugs, microphones, etc, which the league probably does not want to allow since most people would say that goes beyond gamesmanship expected in what is at heart an athletic contest. And so maybe it makes sense to just not allow electronic spying of any kind rather than permit some types but not others.

 

[sts911911]

Not sure if this was brought up yet in the Pool, if not might deserve its own post, but for everyone crying about how taping is different than "normal" sign stealing bc it gives BB an unfair advantage that "normal" sign stealing doesn't, I point you to Exhibit A, a 5-year old SI article about sign stealing in which Shanahan brags:

It's no rumor, pal. "Our guy keeps a pair of binoculars on their signal-callers every game," says Broncos coach Mike Shanahan. "With any luck, we have their defensive signals figured out by halftime. Sometimes, by the end of the first quarter."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_ga...life_of_reilly/So please explain to me again how video taping it is such a unfair advantage? I'm curious?

Because it's expressly forbidden by rule.

No, the rule says it is forbidden. It doesn't say how it is more of an advantage. You are parroting a rule. You are not telling me in your own words and thoughts how you think that taping is more advantageous than having a human being with binoculars figure signals out in one quarter.

If you want to just sit back and blindly think the rule is right, fine by me. Just don't chime in.

Relax, Richard. I misread the question. Binoculars = having to recall at a later time what you think you saw, then relay it to the coach and PRAY you're correct.

Videotaping = it's right there in front of you to study over and over and over. The tape doesn't lie.

Two wrongs don't make a right, using other cheaters to rationalize your boy getting off the hook is weak...

Who's rationalizing anything? I think both acts are wrong. He asked; I answered.

I'm with you I think the whole "well other teams do it too" whining is stupid... he cheated and he got caught

 

[SteelersFan4Ever]

When did Karl Rove start consulting for the NE Pats?

I knew that he would try to spin it like he knew nothing. Why is it that anyone in charge in this country can't take any kind of accountability? They should just take the word "integrity" right out of the dictionary.

 

[tombonneau]

Not sure if this was brought up yet in the Pool, if not might deserve its own post, but for everyone crying about how taping is different than "normal" sign stealing bc it gives BB an unfair advantage that "normal" sign stealing doesn't, I point you to Exhibit A, a 5-year old SI article about sign stealing in which Shanahan brags:

It's no rumor, pal. "Our guy keeps a pair of binoculars on their signal-callers every game," says Broncos coach Mike Shanahan. "With any luck, we have their defensive signals figured out by halftime. Sometimes, by the end of the first quarter."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_ga...life_of_reilly/So please explain to me again how video taping it is such a unfair advantage? I'm curious?

If you really need it explained, sure thing.Video tapes can be replayed to make sure what you saw. What you see with your eyes cannot.

Video tapes can be directly shown to other people and to as many people as you want. What you see with your eyes cannot.

Video tapes can have their images printed out and synced up with snapshots of the defensive alignment that resulted on that play. What you see with your eyes cannot.

Video tapes can be archived and kept on hand and reviewed at any point in the future without losing any detail. What you see with your eyes cannot.

Video tapes are a type of electronic technology which in this case is being used for spying. Eyes can also be used for spying. But there are also a lot of other methods of spying such as bugs, microphones, etc, which the league probably does not want to allow since most people would say that goes beyond gamesmanship expected in what is at heart an athletic contest. And so maybe it makes sense to just not allow electronic spying of any kind rather than permit some types but not others.

Right. And this all could have easily been done from up in their camera booth without anyone knowing. But yet they did it right in front of everyone, which is what makes it all the more bizarre. That's what really has me more befuddled than anything else.

 

[[icon]]

- The game will clearly recover and all likely be forgotten soon. If nothing else, I think this set a precedent that cheating will be dealt with severely and that's good for everyone. Time to move on in my opinion. Many more games to be played.

It's over guys.. quit the and let it go.

 

[mad sweeney]

- The game will clearly recover and all likely be forgotten soon. If nothing else, I think this set a precedent that cheating will be dealt with severely and that's good for everyone. Time to move on in my opinion. Many more games to be played.

It's over guys.. quit the and let it go.

Yeah c'mon guys, we got busted cheating, let's just forget about it already. If you guys keep about it then it's gonna be harder for us Pats fans to forget about it and go back to to patting ourselves on the back for being so much smarter and better than everyone else. So let's just drop it, ok!