Coaching is so Overrated in Pro Sports (1 Viewer)

[abrunn1133]

What this season has proven to me is that coaching in pro sports means absolutely nothing. I would bet my entire life savings that I could coach the Patriots to a 3-11 record, and the Spurs to a 4-24 record, which is the same record as two HALL OF FAME coaches have been able to do. The only thing that matters is the players on the field/court.

Luke Walton holds numerous NBA records for a head coach, one of them starting out a season 24-0 with a Warriors team that would have won all of those games with a hologram coaching them. Walton parlayed that record setting coaching prowess into 6 more seasons with two different teams, failing to make the playoffs a single time.

Bill Belichick, who will most likely finish with the most wins in NFL history, has a record of 83-101 without Tom Brady. That winning % gets you fired, not in the hall of fame.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

Maybe those two guys are just super old and a) don’t have the fire; b) haven’t kept up with the trends that they should; c) suffer from the same the same issue that causes most successful people to plateau at some point, e.g. being biased to what has always worked and/or d) can’t relate as well to younger players…

Just a thought

 

[jabarony]

I get outcoached at CYO 5th grade basketball, losing where we should win. I think coaching may matter a bit in the NFL.


That being said, I could coach any of the Phil Jackson Bulls or Lakers teams to about 9 rings.

 

[TheWinz]

A team should test this theory one year. Just let the QB call the plays on offense, and have your star players on D & SP do the same. I would tune in to every one of their games!

 

[travdogg]

I don't think I could disagree more.

 

[TartanLion]

Absolutely absurd post. Take 2-3 examples that you consider to be correct in your own head and extrapolate that out into all coaching in every single pro sport in the world Wrong on just about every level

 

[Hooper31]

Opinions. They're all over the place. Good. Bad. Whatever.

My opinion? This thread rates up there with the argument made that Jerry Rice wasn't a worthy HOFer.

 

[Mitchie]

Saying it's overrated and that's it's worth absolutely nothing are two very different statements. I'd agree with on you on the first but the second is a tough argument to make.

 

[jumper]

Partially agree with OP. A "good" coach isn't needed for a team filled with superstars to succeed.

That being said, a bad coach can absolutely tank a team filled with superstars. You put Hue Jackson in charge of the Ravens they're probably out of the playoffs this year.

 

[Todem]

Coaching matters. That is incredibly ignorant.

The bad coaches will lose more games than they win.....but good coaches who have good talent are able to elevate an average roster to a good team and can take a good roster to elite levels.

A perfect example of bad coaching was Brandon Staley. He has an uber talented roster and was a horrible gameday coach....Just wait till Harbough gets his culture and system in there for the incredible talent that is Justin Herbert.

I don't care how great you are of a coach if your talent is bad......it is what it is.

Look at what Demarco Ryans did with that Houston Team this season? Yes he had an outstanding rookie QB but he got the most out of his roster.

And then take a look at Mike Tomlin. I don't care what Steeler fans may think.....but he should be given a shrine for coaching that team into the post season......with a QB who was third string several weeks ago. That was a great job coaching a limited roster and being able to know what they are and play to their strengths.

Can coaching be overrated at times? Yeah but don't tell me you can get off your couch and coach a professional football team.

Dude.......

 

[InDitkaWeTrust]

Luke Getsy says, "Hold my beer".

 

[-OZ-]

We still thinking coaching doesn’t matter?

Is there any doubt that possibly other than Stefanski, the best 4 coaches in the league right now are in the conference championships?

 

[Hankmoody]

Wow um no

 

[rockaction]

Is there any doubt

Yes.

McVay is an incredible coach.

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

Is there any doubt

Yes.

McVay is an incredible coach.

He is, although one of the reasons he's no longer in the playoffs was his poor in-game management vs the Lions.

McVay vs. Campbell is an interesting debate, and I could see arguments either way. Obviously, McVay's won a SB and MCDC hasn't (yet!) And next year we'll most likely get a chance to see how Campbell does without Ben Johnson calling plays. All I know is that as a Lions fan, I have the ultimate confidence in Campbell, which is an incredibly weird feeling for anyone who's followed that team

 

[rockaction]

McVay vs. Campbell is an interesting debate

McVay vs. Shanahan is an interesting debate, too. I don't see any Lombardis in Shanahan's office (or displayed prominently around). In fact, it's littered with the two of the highest expected win percentages blown in two separate Super Bowls under his oversight.

 

[Down Under]

This is one of the dumbest thread titles I remember seeing on here.

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

McVay vs. Campbell is an interesting debate

McVay vs. Shanahan is an interesting debate, too. I don't see any Lombardis in Shanahan's office (or displayed prominently around). In fact, it's littered with the two of the highest expected win percentages blown in two separate Super Bowls under his oversight.

Good point. McVay has his issues with game management, but he hasn't had the in-game flameouts that Shanny has. (Then again, I can't remember Shanahan ever getting completely outcoached from the opening kickoff the way McVay was in the Pats SB)

Ultimately, all of these guys will have their flaws; the question is how well they can address them. Andy Reid is a much better in-game manager than he was back in his Eagles days, although it's also probably true that having Mahomes covers up a lot of mistakes. Will be interesting to see how these young guys evolve over the course of their careers. Total guess, but McVay strikes me as the type who is more introspective and would figure out ways to adapt to the NFL's changing landscape, whereas Shanahan's confidence might make him more resistant to change. It's a little like how Gus Bradley and Dan Quinn both coordinated that great Jacksonville D of the mid-Teens, but years later Bradley is still doing the same stuff while Quinn added a ton of new wrinkles when he went to Dallas.

But that's just a guess, and if SF wins the Super Bowl we may be having a very different conversation about Shanahan

 

[Biabreakable]

Disagree. Look at the Lions right now.

 

[3C's]

Some of the examples point to teams that have added players, different coaches/different seasons. A prime example though would be the Raiders. Their record improved but also their defense allowed a TD less per game and their offense improved by a TD per game after Pierce took over. Players mostly the same, coaches changed.

 

[Wigglytuff's Gruff]

It's an inexact science that hinges on a few things often outside a coaches control.

I'd say the number one thing a coach can engender is a culture. They can create an environment from the top down that is player friendly, that is motivational and inspires players to do the best they can and improve themselves.

Ultimately the job is about players though. Good players tend to win. If you can get good players in the building and motivate them, you'll probably be a good coach even if your X's and O's aren't anything to shout about. You're a salesman as much as you are a coach, you need your team to buy in.

 

[BassNBrew]

Some of the examples point to teams that have added players, different coaches/different seasons. A prime example though would be the Raiders. Their record improved but also their defense allowed a TD less per game and their offense improved by a TD per game after Pierce took over. Players mostly the same, coaches changed.

I swim 10x faster without a 50 pound boat anchor tied to my legs. Even without the anchor Phelps in lapping me at any distance.

 

[3C's]

Some of the examples point to teams that have added players, different coaches/different seasons. A prime example though would be the Raiders. Their record improved but also their defense allowed a TD less per game and their offense improved by a TD per game after Pierce took over. Players mostly the same, coaches changed.

I swim 10x faster without a 50 pound boat anchor tied to my legs. Even without the anchor Phelps in lapping me at any distance.

I swim like a rock so you got me there.

 

[Hot Diggity Dog]

There are examples of teams that were so talented and the players self-motivated that they probably didn't need a coach. BUT not all professional athletes are, let's be kind, not in the local MENSA group. They need structure and direction.

 

[Brunell4MVP]

If there is any sport coaching matters it is American Football. Three areas to oversee ... O, D, ST. Loads and loads of players. Layers of assistants.

NBA coaches ... not so much. Only 5 players on court. MLB ... a little bit but every day is pretty much the same. Hockey ... a little more with line shifts but again, only a few players on ice and one never changes. That coaching is more about psyhchology. Soccer ... I see a little more Xs and Os in that but players are still why they win.

NFL ... lots of Xs and Os.

Dumb title.

 

[Da Guru]

I remember Chuck Daly who coached the Bad Boy Pistons to 2 NBA titles said it is more important for an NBA coach to manage personalities than Xs and Os.

I remember watching him talk about TOs and drawing up shots on the chalk board. Said 80% of the time whatever he said went out the window as soon as the ball was inbounded.

 

[pinkstapler]

If there is any sport coaching matters it is American Football. Three areas to oversee ... O, D, ST. Loads and loads of players. Layers of assistants.

NBA coaches ... not so much. Only 5 players on court. MLB ... a little bit but every day is pretty much the same. Hockey ... a little more with line shifts but again, only a few players on ice and one never changes. That coaching is more about psyhchology. Soccer ... I see a little more Xs and Os in that but players are still why they win.

NFL ... lots of Xs and Os.

Dumb title.

This. I can see minimizing the impact they have in certain sports like basketball or hockey. But football is probably the sport MOST reliant on coaching out of all of them. Most sports have offensive and defensive theories, or structures. The NFL is legit calling different plays for every single down, ever 30 seconds or so. And that's just one aspect the coach is responsible for. The size of the teams, the size of the coaching staffs, the special teams is a third leg of the game no other sport really even has to consider....

While I don't really agree with the premise of the post at all; if someone was going to try to make the case on it, football has to be the worst possible sport to pick as an example.

 

[BobbyLayne]

If there is any sport coaching matters it is American Football. Three areas to oversee ... O, D, ST. Loads and loads of players. Layers of assistants.

NBA coaches ... not so much. Only 5 players on court. MLB ... a little bit but every day is pretty much the same. Hockey ... a little more with line shifts but again, only a few players on ice and one never changes. That coaching is more about psyhchology. Soccer ... I see a little more Xs and Os in that but players are still why they win.

NFL ... lots of Xs and Os.

Dumb title.

There are a lot of unseen administrative tasks which go into being a good NFL head coach. You need great people around you at GM, the three coordinators, positional coaches, strength and conditioning, medical and training staff, in house mental health, the Tier 3 quality control folks who grind away putting together and disseminating the game plans, et al. It literally takes a village.

The Head Coach is the CEO, the visionary, the sports psychologist and performance motivator. Obviously some of the best coaches excel at one aspect of schemes but even those guys are hands off on two-thirds of their squad bc somebody else is better at it.

 

[Da Guru]

If there is any sport coaching matters it is American Football. Three areas to oversee ... O, D, ST. Loads and loads of players. Layers of assistants.

NBA coaches ... not so much. Only 5 players on court. MLB ... a little bit but every day is pretty much the same. Hockey ... a little more with line shifts but again, only a few players on ice and one never changes. That coaching is more about psyhchology. Soccer ... I see a little more Xs and Os in that but players are still why they win.

NFL ... lots of Xs and Os.

Dumb title.

There are a lot of unseen administrative tasks which go into being a good NFL head coach. You need great people around you at GM, the three coordinators, positional coaches, strength and conditioning, medical and training staff, in house mental health, the Tier 3 quality control folks who grind away putting together and disseminating the game plans, et al. It literally takes a village.

The Head Coach is the CEO, the visionary, the sports psychologist and performance motivator. Obviously some of the best coaches excel at one aspect of schemes but even those guys are hands off on two-thirds of their squad bc somebody else is better at it.

Have to have full trust in your staff. When DC says "Go for it" on 4th down he is not calling the play, Ben Johnson is.

 

[need2know]

if the eagles had good coaching , they dont lose every game for the last 9 weeks

 

[Pip's Invitation]

This is one of the dumbest thread titles I remember seeing on here.

Yep. And it annoys me that it shows up as a “similar thread” at the bottom of many of the coaching threads.

 

[menobrown]

OP should have led with the 2013 Redskins.

 

[JohnnyU]

At first glance coaches seem to matter less in the NBA, but when you factor in a coach that knows how to communicate with grown men and knows the right buttons to push and when to push them, that is the most valuable asset of an NBA coach. They know how to NOT get in the way at certain times and how to get in the way when they should. That is what separates Pat Riley, Phil Jackson, Chuck Daly and KC Jones from other NBA coaches. I know I’m listing old time coaches because that when I watched the NBA. The product today isn’t nearly as entertaining. Just 3’s, dunks and no defense.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

I believe Steve Grogan used to call his own plays for the Patriots

Survey Says...

Squish the Fish: 1985 Patriots Run One of the Greatest in NFL History

For those of you who’ve only lived through Brady and Belichick, know one thing about the ‘85 Patriots: You would have absolutely loved them.

www.boston.com

Grogan – who called his own plays in the huddle – led the Patriots to a victory upon entering that game against the Bills. He was the consummate field general. But more importantly, he always believed.

 

[JohnnyU]

I believe Steve Grogan used to call his own plays for the Patriots

Survey Says...

Squish the Fish: 1985 Patriots Run One of the Greatest in NFL History

For those of you who’ve only lived through Brady and Belichick, know one thing about the ‘85 Patriots: You would have absolutely loved them.

www.boston.com

Grogan – who called his own plays in the huddle – led the Patriots to a victory upon entering that game against the Bills. He was the consummate field general. But more importantly, he always believed.

I remember him as pesky who made the most of whatever talent he had. He and Bert Jones had some epic battles in the mid-70s.

 

[TheWinz]

Can you think of any athlete who doesn't have a coach?

Usain Bolt = Glen Mills
Magnus Carlsen = Peter Nielsen
Michael Phelps = Bob Bowman
Brian Shaw = Joe Kenn
Jimmy Snuka = Lou Albano

See, even fake athletes have coaches!

 

[Deamon]

Coaching definitely matters more in football than in any other sport. Basketball, Hockey, Baseball, those guys could probably survive (not do AS well) without a coach but coaching is so underrated in the NFL.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

I don't think I could disagree more.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Counterpoint: Coaching is fairly rated.

Good coaching can turn a 2 win team into a 9 win team.

Bad coaching can turn a 9 win team into a 2 win team.

Respectfully, I disagree with the entire premise of this topic.