Belichick statement to SpyGate (1 Viewer)

[tombonneau]

- The game will clearly recover and all likely be forgotten soon. If nothing else, I think this set a precedent that cheating will be dealt with severely and that's good for everyone. Time to move on in my opinion. Many more games to be played.

It's over guys.. quit the and let it go.

Yeah c'mon guys, we got busted cheating, let's just forget about it already. If you guys keep about it then it's gonna be harder for us Pats fans to forget about it and go back to to patting ourselves on the back for being so much smarter and better than everyone else. So let's just drop it, ok!

I don't even know how to respond to such a jerky post.

 

[massraider]

Sorry, but the idea of letting this go is funny. People want to talk about something else, cool. But the rest of us have had the Patriot Way rammed down our throat for 6 years. And after 3 days of SpyGate, its "let's move on"? Doubtful. The mighty have fallen, the body is still warm, and frankly, there are more questions out there. Pats fans are tired of hearing it? Then they should try and ignore it.

 

[mad sweeney]

- The game will clearly recover and all likely be forgotten soon. If nothing else, I think this set a precedent that cheating will be dealt with severely and that's good for everyone. Time to move on in my opinion. Many more games to be played.

It's over guys.. quit the and let it go.

Yeah c'mon guys, we got busted cheating, let's just forget about it already. If you guys keep about it then it's gonna be harder for us Pats fans to forget about it and go back to to patting ourselves on the back for our team being so much smarter and better than everyone else. So let's just drop it, ok!

I don't even know how to respond to such a jerky post.

Left out the bolded part in the original post, didn't mean to imply Pats fans thought they were better than the rest of us.

 

[kensat30]

Three championships for a first round pick is a bargain.

 

[Class Dismissed]

Bellicheat crafting his statement to include this gem

"As the Commissioner acknowledged, our use of sideline video had no impact on the outcome of last week's game."

Is incredulous.

Of course it did not effect the game, the damned camera was confiscated by the NFL before the NE Patriot Agent of Subterfuge entered the locker room at half time, before he could download his camera and share the information.

Talk about a diversion.

Additionaly this sentence tells you everything you need to know about the extent of the operation.

We have never used sideline video to obtain a competitive advantage while the game was in progress.

No Bill, you just use the video for the subsequent matchups, which help you dominate a Division, secure a playoff spot, and win games in the NFL Playoffs by giving you an unfair advantage that is expressly forbidden by the League rules that are in place to protect the integrity of the game.

If I was Goodell, I would be mighty pissed after reading that statement

FG Dynasty*

 

[Franknbeans]

I call this guy Pats fan ->

 

[TinHat]

Food for thought. If Goodell was fining BB for violating a rule, why did he not say that instead of "This episode represents a calculated and deliberate attempt to avoid longstanding rules designed to encourage fair play and promote honest competition on the playing field,"?

which stands in contrast to this from BB:"As the Commissioner acknowledged, our use of sideline video had no impact on the outcome of last week's game"So, put it together and it sounds like they tried to cheat and failed. I'm not sure I'm buying that.

 

[Reaper]

All you people yelling cheats, do you think your teams don't do the same thing, honestly?

Sounds like the steroid thing all over again and why I never Vilify Bonds for Cheating in the era of steroids with no MLB rule against it...Yet, I know a lot of Sox fans who foam at the mouth and pick out each steroid abuser to mock while assuming Sox players never did this.Here we actually had a rule and a Loud warning......

 

[IvanKaramazov]

We already knew that BB is a scumbag. I wouldn't have expected anything different from him.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

All you people yelling cheats, do you think your teams don't do the same thing, honestly?

I would honestly be shocked if the current Buffalo regime pulled stuff like this.

 

[Bad_Mo]

way to accept responsibility guy. or not at all.translation: I didn't cheat, I was misinformed about a rule.

I don't interpret it as him being misinformed about a rule.I believe that his statement is premised on the fact that they did not use tape from the game during the game. Whether they did or didn't - only a certain few individuals know for sure.

 

[Bad_Mo]

We already knew that BB is a scumbag. I wouldn't have expected anything different from him.

Define scumbag.

 

[Gatorman]

Intersting thing about this is the dolphins tend to win the second game vs. the patriots. hmm...

 

[suchislife]

If you want to just sit back and blindly think the rule is right, fine by me. Just don't chime in.

So in other words, "If you don't agree with me, don't post your opinion". The rule is clear....if you videotape, its wrong. If you can pick up the signals with your eyes and decipher them, good for you. Is that clear now? Or should I type slower?

 

[Reaper]

All you people yelling cheats, do you think your teams don't do the same thing, honestly?

I would honestly be shocked if the current Buffalo regime pulled stuff like this.

I'd bet boatloads that Herm Edwards wouldn't do it.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

I seriously think the Commish found a lot more damaging evidence than this one videotape. He called off the meeting with Belicheck yet gave him the maximum $ fine possible? Does anyone think he believes this was a one-time video infraction?

My take:

- Commish belives that this has been going on for a LONG time with the Patriots. It could include video, audio, etc.

- Everyone loses if this is shown to have existed for a LONG time as it puts into major question the Super Bowl wins, key comebacks, etc. Everyone can speculate now, but if long-standing abuse was shown this would really tarnish the league going forward.

- I don't think the Commish believes this did not impact current games played, but knows to put that into question then the integrity of the whole league is at risk. It's a slippery slope that he would prefer not to go down.

- The Commish likely also believes at least a few other teams are doing this and made this sentence sting to curtail this as much as possible with other franchises going forward. No coach wants to pay a $500K fine. And many coaches could get fired over it from their bosses. That coupled with draft picks should curtail this happening again this season at least.

- I am guessing the Commish also told every NFL team that he won't stand for cheating (nor to a lesser extent whistle blowing) that brings the league into negative discussions. And I am guessing he told everyone that the next offense by any coach circumventing this will be dealt with severely. This was a major stain on the integrity of the game. The maximum fine was made to set a precedent that will only be greater if some other team is caught cheating by using videotape / stealing opponent's radio transmissions, etc.

- There was never a chance that a game would be forfeited. The second you do that and this story has legs forever. People that lost money betting on the Jets want their money back, etc. Fantasy players want the stats erased. It's a house of cards I doubt we would ever see because it would keep the story in the news for a very long time.

- I think the Commish felt like he had enough info to suspend Belicheck games. But doing so would likely lead to other coaches coming under scrutiny, etc and he knew it was best to not go that route. The NFL needs this story to die. The money is significant to the average fan and is a deterrent to every other coach. He knows the Patriots organization will likely pay the fine (give BB a raise down the road, etc). I think this penalty had a lot more to do with perception of being a harsh penalty and deterring this from continuing league-wide.

- For those wanting more blood, don't forget that this will indeed stain the legacy of Belicheck, Brady and the Patriots Super Bowl wins. That's a very big deal in my opinion.

- The game will clearly recover and all likely be forgotten soon. If nothing else, I think this set a precedent that cheating will be dealt with severely and that's good for everyone. Time to move on in my opinion. Many more games to be played.

Great post David, I agree with your thinking. Here's my take on the bolded part:The two biggest contributors to the SB wins had lots of question marks before they came to New England. Belichick had a brutal term as the Browns head coach, so his need to be successful in New England was immediate because he wasn't going to have much rope. And Brady was a 6th round pick. I think people forget that. He wasn't some superstar coming out of Michigan, he was a 6th rounder. It's sort of mind boggling to think that of the consensus top 3 QBs in the game right now, 2 of them were the overall #1 pick (Manning, Palmer) and one guy was the 199th overall pick (IIRC). Doesn't that make you wonder just a little bit? What happened that made Brady so good?

 

[Banger]

I'm actually surprised how much BB said. I was expecting his normal short, terse, irresponsive response.

I'm glad he was called out on this and now teams can forget about thinking about spying, defending against spying and get back to playing football on an even playing field. To think that they got no competitive advantage from this is an absolute joke though, if that's the case why take the risk despite numerous warnings?

 

[rick6668]

Did the Patriots have someone taping this past weeks games in Buffalo or Miami or any other team they play this year?

They don't necessarily have to be taping the game they are playing in right now, it would be moe advantageous to do this a few weeks before you play them.

 

[greenline]

Sorry, but the idea of letting this go is funny. People want to talk about something else, cool. But the rest of us have had the Patriot Way rammed down our throat for 6 years. And after 3 days of SpyGate, its "let's move on"? Doubtful. The mighty have fallen, the body is still warm, and frankly, there are more questions out there. Pats fans are tired of hearing it? Then they should try and ignore it.

 

[Snotbubbles]

"As the Commissioner acknowledged, our use of sideline video had no impact on the outcome of last week's game. We have never used sideline video to obtain a competitive advantage while the game was in progress.

And he never used this to gain an advantage? What were they taping it for then?

This is the question for which I'd like a plausible answer.(HINT: There isn't one, so don't hold your breath waiting for one.)

I'd like to hear an explanation as well but what he is saying is that they were taping it as part of advance scouting for the next meeting with the Jets. Doesnt explain the little issue in GB though since they only play them once every 4 years. Although, the tape was never confiscated in GB so that situation is not quite as clear as this one.

Step 1. Take of Patriot Homer glasses.Step 2. Just use your common sense, the answer will come to you.

 

[greenline]

I seriously think the Commish found a lot more damaging evidence than this one videotape. He called off the meeting with Belicheck yet gave him the maximum $ fine possible? Does anyone think he believes this was a one-time video infraction?

My take:

- Commish belives that this has been going on for a LONG time with the Patriots. It could include video, audio, etc.

- Everyone loses if this is shown to have existed for a LONG time as it puts into major question the Super Bowl wins, key comebacks, etc. Everyone can speculate now, but if long-standing abuse was shown this would really tarnish the league going forward.

- I don't think the Commish believes this did not impact current games played, but knows to put that into question then the integrity of the whole league is at risk. It's a slippery slope that he would prefer not to go down.

- The Commish likely also believes at least a few other teams are doing this and made this sentence sting to curtail this as much as possible with other franchises going forward. No coach wants to pay a $500K fine. And many coaches could get fired over it from their bosses. That coupled with draft picks should curtail this happening again this season at least.

- I am guessing the Commish also told every NFL team that he won't stand for cheating (nor to a lesser extent whistle blowing) that brings the league into negative discussions. And I am guessing he told everyone that the next offense by any coach circumventing this will be dealt with severely. This was a major stain on the integrity of the game. The maximum fine was made to set a precedent that will only be greater if some other team is caught cheating by using videotape / stealing opponent's radio transmissions, etc.

- There was never a chance that a game would be forfeited. The second you do that and this story has legs forever. People that lost money betting on the Jets want their money back, etc. Fantasy players want the stats erased. It's a house of cards I doubt we would ever see because it would keep the story in the news for a very long time.

- I think the Commish felt like he had enough info to suspend Belicheck games. But doing so would likely lead to other coaches coming under scrutiny, etc and he knew it was best to not go that route. The NFL needs this story to die. The money is significant to the average fan and is a deterrent to every other coach. He knows the Patriots organization will likely pay the fine (give BB a raise down the road, etc). I think this penalty had a lot more to do with perception of being a harsh penalty and deterring this from continuing league-wide.

- For those wanting more blood, don't forget that this will indeed stain the legacy of Belicheck, Brady and the Patriots Super Bowl wins. That's a very big deal in my opinion.

- The game will clearly recover and all likely be forgotten soon. If nothing else, I think this set a precedent that cheating will be dealt with severely and that's good for everyone. Time to move on in my opinion. Many more games to be played.

Great post David, I agree with your thinking. Here's my take on the bolded part:The two biggest contributors to the SB wins had lots of question marks before they came to New England. Belichick had a brutal term as the Browns head coach, so his need to be successful in New England was immediate because he wasn't going to have much rope. And Brady was a 6th round pick. I think people forget that. He wasn't some superstar coming out of Michigan, he was a 6th rounder. It's sort of mind boggling to think that of the consensus top 3 QBs in the game right now, 2 of them were the overall #1 pick (Manning, Palmer) and one guy was the 199th overall pick (IIRC). Doesn't that make you wonder just a little bit? What happened that made Brady so good?

LOL

It's called a controlled system where they built him to from scratch to run an offense the way they wanted it. Over the years he has become progessively better.

Before that it was Bledsoe.

 

[Snotbubbles]

I seriously think the Commish found a lot more damaging evidence than this one videotape. He called off the meeting with Belicheck yet gave him the maximum $ fine possible? Does anyone think he believes this was a one-time video infraction? My take:- Commish belives that this has been going on for a LONG time with the Patriots. It could include video, audio, etc. - Everyone loses if this is shown to have existed for a LONG time as it puts into major question the Super Bowl wins, key comebacks, etc. Everyone can speculate now, but if long-standing abuse was shown this would really tarnish the league going forward.- I don't think the Commish believes this did not impact current games played, but knows to put that into question then the integrity of the whole league is at risk. It's a slippery slope that he would prefer not to go down.- The Commish likely also believes at least a few other teams are doing this and made this sentence sting to curtail this as much as possible with other franchises going forward. No coach wants to pay a $500K fine. And many coaches could get fired over it from their bosses. That coupled with draft picks should curtail this happening again this season at least.- I am guessing the Commish also told every NFL team that he won't stand for cheating (nor to a lesser extent whistle blowing) that brings the league into negative discussions. And I am guessing he told everyone that the next offense by any coach circumventing this will be dealt with severely. This was a major stain on the integrity of the game. The maximum fine was made to set a precedent that will only be greater if some other team is caught cheating by using videotape / stealing opponent's radio transmissions, etc. - There was never a chance that a game would be forfeited. The second you do that and this story has legs forever. People that lost money betting on the Jets want their money back, etc. Fantasy players want the stats erased. It's a house of cards I doubt we would ever see because it would keep the story in the news for a very long time. - I think the Commish felt like he had enough info to suspend Belicheck games. But doing so would likely lead to other coaches coming under scrutiny, etc and he knew it was best to not go that route. The NFL needs this story to die. The money is significant to the average fan and is a deterrent to every other coach. He knows the Patriots organization will likely pay the fine (give BB a raise down the road, etc). I think this penalty had a lot more to do with perception of being a harsh penalty and deterring this from continuing league-wide.- For those wanting more blood, don't forget that this will indeed stain the legacy of Belicheck, Brady and the Patriots Super Bowl wins. That's a very big deal in my opinion. - The game will clearly recover and all likely be forgotten soon. If nothing else, I think this set a precedent that cheating will be dealt with severely and that's good for everyone. Time to move on in my opinion. Many more games to be played.

As I posted in another thread on 610WIP this morning, Monte Kiffin then of the Tampa Bucs said that after a game against the Patriots in 2000, Charlie Weis came over to him and said, "we had all your defensive signals and you still beat us."

 

[ConstruxBoy]

I seriously think the Commish found a lot more damaging evidence than this one videotape. He called off the meeting with Belicheck yet gave him the maximum $ fine possible? Does anyone think he believes this was a one-time video infraction?

My take:

- Commish belives that this has been going on for a LONG time with the Patriots. It could include video, audio, etc.

- Everyone loses if this is shown to have existed for a LONG time as it puts into major question the Super Bowl wins, key comebacks, etc. Everyone can speculate now, but if long-standing abuse was shown this would really tarnish the league going forward.

- I don't think the Commish believes this did not impact current games played, but knows to put that into question then the integrity of the whole league is at risk. It's a slippery slope that he would prefer not to go down.

- The Commish likely also believes at least a few other teams are doing this and made this sentence sting to curtail this as much as possible with other franchises going forward. No coach wants to pay a $500K fine. And many coaches could get fired over it from their bosses. That coupled with draft picks should curtail this happening again this season at least.

- I am guessing the Commish also told every NFL team that he won't stand for cheating (nor to a lesser extent whistle blowing) that brings the league into negative discussions. And I am guessing he told everyone that the next offense by any coach circumventing this will be dealt with severely. This was a major stain on the integrity of the game. The maximum fine was made to set a precedent that will only be greater if some other team is caught cheating by using videotape / stealing opponent's radio transmissions, etc.

- There was never a chance that a game would be forfeited. The second you do that and this story has legs forever. People that lost money betting on the Jets want their money back, etc. Fantasy players want the stats erased. It's a house of cards I doubt we would ever see because it would keep the story in the news for a very long time.

- I think the Commish felt like he had enough info to suspend Belicheck games. But doing so would likely lead to other coaches coming under scrutiny, etc and he knew it was best to not go that route. The NFL needs this story to die. The money is significant to the average fan and is a deterrent to every other coach. He knows the Patriots organization will likely pay the fine (give BB a raise down the road, etc). I think this penalty had a lot more to do with perception of being a harsh penalty and deterring this from continuing league-wide.

- For those wanting more blood, don't forget that this will indeed stain the legacy of Belicheck, Brady and the Patriots Super Bowl wins. That's a very big deal in my opinion.

- The game will clearly recover and all likely be forgotten soon. If nothing else, I think this set a precedent that cheating will be dealt with severely and that's good for everyone. Time to move on in my opinion. Many more games to be played.

Great post David, I agree with your thinking. Here's my take on the bolded part:The two biggest contributors to the SB wins had lots of question marks before they came to New England. Belichick had a brutal term as the Browns head coach, so his need to be successful in New England was immediate because he wasn't going to have much rope. And Brady was a 6th round pick. I think people forget that. He wasn't some superstar coming out of Michigan, he was a 6th rounder. It's sort of mind boggling to think that of the consensus top 3 QBs in the game right now, 2 of them were the overall #1 pick (Manning, Palmer) and one guy was the 199th overall pick (IIRC). Doesn't that make you wonder just a little bit? What happened that made Brady so good?

LOL

It's called a controlled system where they built him to from scratch to run an offense the way they wanted it. Over the years he has become progessively better.

Before that it was Bledsoe.

Sure, but is he becoming better because he has a good idea what the defense is doing some of the time?

 

[Snotbubbles]

I seriously think the Commish found a lot more damaging evidence than this one videotape. He called off the meeting with Belicheck yet gave him the maximum $ fine possible? Does anyone think he believes this was a one-time video infraction?

My take:

- Commish belives that this has been going on for a LONG time with the Patriots. It could include video, audio, etc.

- Everyone loses if this is shown to have existed for a LONG time as it puts into major question the Super Bowl wins, key comebacks, etc. Everyone can speculate now, but if long-standing abuse was shown this would really tarnish the league going forward.

- I don't think the Commish believes this did not impact current games played, but knows to put that into question then the integrity of the whole league is at risk. It's a slippery slope that he would prefer not to go down.

- The Commish likely also believes at least a few other teams are doing this and made this sentence sting to curtail this as much as possible with other franchises going forward. No coach wants to pay a $500K fine. And many coaches could get fired over it from their bosses. That coupled with draft picks should curtail this happening again this season at least.

- I am guessing the Commish also told every NFL team that he won't stand for cheating (nor to a lesser extent whistle blowing) that brings the league into negative discussions. And I am guessing he told everyone that the next offense by any coach circumventing this will be dealt with severely. This was a major stain on the integrity of the game. The maximum fine was made to set a precedent that will only be greater if some other team is caught cheating by using videotape / stealing opponent's radio transmissions, etc.

- There was never a chance that a game would be forfeited. The second you do that and this story has legs forever. People that lost money betting on the Jets want their money back, etc. Fantasy players want the stats erased. It's a house of cards I doubt we would ever see because it would keep the story in the news for a very long time.

- I think the Commish felt like he had enough info to suspend Belicheck games. But doing so would likely lead to other coaches coming under scrutiny, etc and he knew it was best to not go that route. The NFL needs this story to die. The money is significant to the average fan and is a deterrent to every other coach. He knows the Patriots organization will likely pay the fine (give BB a raise down the road, etc). I think this penalty had a lot more to do with perception of being a harsh penalty and deterring this from continuing league-wide.

- For those wanting more blood, don't forget that this will indeed stain the legacy of Belicheck, Brady and the Patriots Super Bowl wins. That's a very big deal in my opinion.

- The game will clearly recover and all likely be forgotten soon. If nothing else, I think this set a precedent that cheating will be dealt with severely and that's good for everyone. Time to move on in my opinion. Many more games to be played.

Great post David, I agree with your thinking. Here's my take on the bolded part:The two biggest contributors to the SB wins had lots of question marks before they came to New England. Belichick had a brutal term as the Browns head coach, so his need to be successful in New England was immediate because he wasn't going to have much rope. And Brady was a 6th round pick. I think people forget that. He wasn't some superstar coming out of Michigan, he was a 6th rounder. It's sort of mind boggling to think that of the consensus top 3 QBs in the game right now, 2 of them were the overall #1 pick (Manning, Palmer) and one guy was the 199th overall pick (IIRC). Doesn't that make you wonder just a little bit? What happened that made Brady so good?

LOL

It's called a controlled system where they built him to from scratch to run an offense the way they wanted it. Over the years he has become progessively better.

Before that it was Bledsoe.

Kinda reminds me of Randall Cunningham and his years in Minnesota. At that time the mic'd helmets could stay on for the duration of the play clock. Randall would come to the line and Brian Billick would radio down to Randall what the defense was and what his reads were. Randall went on to have the probably one of the best passing years of his career. The next year, the league changed the rules allowing the radios only to be on for a portion of the play clock and Randall was never the same.

 

[greenline]

I seriously think the Commish found a lot more damaging evidence than this one videotape. He called off the meeting with Belicheck yet gave him the maximum $ fine possible? Does anyone think he believes this was a one-time video infraction?

My take:

- Commish belives that this has been going on for a LONG time with the Patriots. It could include video, audio, etc.

- Everyone loses if this is shown to have existed for a LONG time as it puts into major question the Super Bowl wins, key comebacks, etc. Everyone can speculate now, but if long-standing abuse was shown this would really tarnish the league going forward.

- I don't think the Commish believes this did not impact current games played, but knows to put that into question then the integrity of the whole league is at risk. It's a slippery slope that he would prefer not to go down.

- The Commish likely also believes at least a few other teams are doing this and made this sentence sting to curtail this as much as possible with other franchises going forward. No coach wants to pay a $500K fine. And many coaches could get fired over it from their bosses. That coupled with draft picks should curtail this happening again this season at least.

- I am guessing the Commish also told every NFL team that he won't stand for cheating (nor to a lesser extent whistle blowing) that brings the league into negative discussions. And I am guessing he told everyone that the next offense by any coach circumventing this will be dealt with severely. This was a major stain on the integrity of the game. The maximum fine was made to set a precedent that will only be greater if some other team is caught cheating by using videotape / stealing opponent's radio transmissions, etc.

- There was never a chance that a game would be forfeited. The second you do that and this story has legs forever. People that lost money betting on the Jets want their money back, etc. Fantasy players want the stats erased. It's a house of cards I doubt we would ever see because it would keep the story in the news for a very long time.

- I think the Commish felt like he had enough info to suspend Belicheck games. But doing so would likely lead to other coaches coming under scrutiny, etc and he knew it was best to not go that route. The NFL needs this story to die. The money is significant to the average fan and is a deterrent to every other coach. He knows the Patriots organization will likely pay the fine (give BB a raise down the road, etc). I think this penalty had a lot more to do with perception of being a harsh penalty and deterring this from continuing league-wide.

- For those wanting more blood, don't forget that this will indeed stain the legacy of Belicheck, Brady and the Patriots Super Bowl wins. That's a very big deal in my opinion.

- The game will clearly recover and all likely be forgotten soon. If nothing else, I think this set a precedent that cheating will be dealt with severely and that's good for everyone. Time to move on in my opinion. Many more games to be played.

Great post David, I agree with your thinking. Here's my take on the bolded part:The two biggest contributors to the SB wins had lots of question marks before they came to New England. Belichick had a brutal term as the Browns head coach, so his need to be successful in New England was immediate because he wasn't going to have much rope. And Brady was a 6th round pick. I think people forget that. He wasn't some superstar coming out of Michigan, he was a 6th rounder. It's sort of mind boggling to think that of the consensus top 3 QBs in the game right now, 2 of them were the overall #1 pick (Manning, Palmer) and one guy was the 199th overall pick (IIRC). Doesn't that make you wonder just a little bit? What happened that made Brady so good?

LOL

It's called a controlled system where they built him to from scratch to run an offense the way they wanted it. Over the years he has become progessively better.

Before that it was Bledsoe.

Sure, but is he becoming better because he has a good idea what the defense is doing some of the time?

Look I understand the questioning but this is just a fraction of the processes. It's not as though everything relied on one video tape each week. Go look back at Brady when he was a rookie in 2000. Alot has changed with him and it's not centered around a video tape.

 

[crowe1130]

Typical response written by a team's PR group. Lawyer-speak through and through.

Not just calling out BB here, though I do have zero respect for him now, but why can't anyone ever just man up anymore? I'm really tired of BS statements that include any of the following:

"To the best of my knowledge..."

"I don't recall...."

"My interpretation of..."

"It depends on your definition of 'is'..."

Or my all-time most hated:

"I regret the pain and suffering this situation has caused..." - no apology, no acceptance of responsibility

Jeez, grow a sack, say you did it, say you won't do it again, and move on.

 

[Courtjester]

Great post David!! (I am not going to nest it again and again)

This is all about immediate punishment for BB and New England, but more importantly it sets the bar for what will happen to teams in the future if they do this. Also, as David said, I think the league wants this over and no more further digging or speculation.

This actually doesn't hurt the Patroits that bad because don't they have two 1st rounders this year--like 16-18th and then probably a 30th or so? But imagine if a team like Cle or KC got caught doing this?? Ouch!!

BB=classless. He should have just thrown himself on his sword and done the right thing instead of attempting to say, "Well I was wrong BUTTTTTT."

I never was a Patroits hater before, but now, I hope they lose first round of the playoffs.

 

[twitch]

I seriously think the Commish found a lot more damaging evidence than this one videotape. He called off the meeting with Belicheck yet gave him the maximum $ fine possible? Does anyone think he believes this was a one-time video infraction?

My take:

- Commish belives that this has been going on for a LONG time with the Patriots. It could include video, audio, etc.

- Everyone loses if this is shown to have existed for a LONG time as it puts into major question the Super Bowl wins, key comebacks, etc. Everyone can speculate now, but if long-standing abuse was shown this would really tarnish the league going forward.

- I don't think the Commish believes this did not impact current games played, but knows to put that into question then the integrity of the whole league is at risk. It's a slippery slope that he would prefer not to go down.

- The Commish likely also believes at least a few other teams are doing this and made this sentence sting to curtail this as much as possible with other franchises going forward. No coach wants to pay a $500K fine. And many coaches could get fired over it from their bosses. That coupled with draft picks should curtail this happening again this season at least.

- I am guessing the Commish also told every NFL team that he won't stand for cheating (nor to a lesser extent whistle blowing) that brings the league into negative discussions. And I am guessing he told everyone that the next offense by any coach circumventing this will be dealt with severely. This was a major stain on the integrity of the game. The maximum fine was made to set a precedent that will only be greater if some other team is caught cheating by using videotape / stealing opponent's radio transmissions, etc.

- There was never a chance that a game would be forfeited. The second you do that and this story has legs forever. People that lost money betting on the Jets want their money back, etc. Fantasy players want the stats erased. It's a house of cards I doubt we would ever see because it would keep the story in the news for a very long time.

- I think the Commish felt like he had enough info to suspend Belicheck games. But doing so would likely lead to other coaches coming under scrutiny, etc and he knew it was best to not go that route. The NFL needs this story to die. The money is significant to the average fan and is a deterrent to every other coach. He knows the Patriots organization will likely pay the fine (give BB a raise down the road, etc). I think this penalty had a lot more to do with perception of being a harsh penalty and deterring this from continuing league-wide.

- For those wanting more blood, don't forget that this will indeed stain the legacy of Belicheck, Brady and the Patriots Super Bowl wins. That's a very big deal in my opinion.

- The game will clearly recover and all likely be forgotten soon. If nothing else, I think this set a precedent that cheating will be dealt with severely and that's good for everyone. Time to move on in my opinion. Many more games to be played.

Great post David, I agree with your thinking. Here's my take on the bolded part:The two biggest contributors to the SB wins had lots of question marks before they came to New England. Belichick had a brutal term as the Browns head coach, so his need to be successful in New England was immediate because he wasn't going to have much rope. And Brady was a 6th round pick. I think people forget that. He wasn't some superstar coming out of Michigan, he was a 6th rounder. It's sort of mind boggling to think that of the consensus top 3 QBs in the game right now, 2 of them were the overall #1 pick (Manning, Palmer) and one guy was the 199th overall pick (IIRC). Doesn't that make you wonder just a little bit? What happened that made Brady so good?

Just for the record, another all time great QB, Bart Starr, was a 17th round pick, the 200th overall, one pick lower than Brady, played for a pretty decent team and a pretty decent coach and won FIVE rings with what was then the dominant team of the generation. What made that guy so good?

 

[Obie Wan]

"As the Commissioner acknowledged, our use of sideline video had no impact on the outcome of last week's game. We have never used sideline video to obtain a competitive advantage while the game was in progress.

And he never used this to gain an advantage? What were they taping it for then?

This is the question for which I'd like a plausible answer.(HINT: There isn't one, so don't hold your breath waiting for one.)

The "videotaping" of teh signals may really be a diversion.If the camera was TV quality, it had audio receiving capablility and could have been used to hack into the Wi-Fi system supporting the QB headset. Stealing play calls in real time.Needing someone to be in the WiFi range of the opposing team's sideline would explain why they didn't just tape from their side of the field.

 

[AB in DC]

"As the Commissioner acknowledged, our use of sideline video had no impact on the outcome of last week's game.

I may have missed it but how how did Goodell acknowledge this?

No one ever answered Joe, so I'll quote from the NFL.com (AP) story:

The NFL said the camera was seized before the end of the first quarter and had no impact on the game.

 

[Mungo Burrows]

Bellicheat crafting his statement to include this gem

"As the Commissioner acknowledged, our use of sideline video had no impact on the outcome of last week's game."

Is incredulous.

Of course it did not effect the game, the damned camera was confiscated by the NFL before the NE Patriot Agent of Subterfuge entered the locker room at half time, before he could download his camera and share the information.

Talk about a diversion.

Additionaly this sentence tells you everything you need to know about the extent of the operation.

We have never used sideline video to obtain a competitive advantage while the game was in progress.

No Bill, you just use the video for the subsequent matchups, which help you dominate a Division, secure a playoff spot, and win games in the NFL Playoffs by giving you an unfair advantage that is expressly forbidden by the League rules that are in place to protect the integrity of the game.

If I was Goodell, I would be mighty pissed after reading that statement

FG Dynasty*

People are assuming his comment about "While the game was in progress" means it was for future games. Let's think about this: They caught the video guy going to the locker room right before halftime. Bill probably argued to the commish that, during halftime, the game is not technically in progress. This is why they say it was of no benefit to them in this game, because they probably do most of the analysis at halftime. This time they were caught before they could use it, but other times I'm guessing they used the information during games - in the second half. Why else would they have done it against GB or Det as rumored? Why was the guy heading to the locker room shortly before half time?

 

[ConstruxBoy]

I seriously think the Commish found a lot more damaging evidence than this one videotape. He called off the meeting with Belicheck yet gave him the maximum $ fine possible? Does anyone think he believes this was a one-time video infraction?

My take:

- Commish belives that this has been going on for a LONG time with the Patriots. It could include video, audio, etc.

- Everyone loses if this is shown to have existed for a LONG time as it puts into major question the Super Bowl wins, key comebacks, etc. Everyone can speculate now, but if long-standing abuse was shown this would really tarnish the league going forward.

- I don't think the Commish believes this did not impact current games played, but knows to put that into question then the integrity of the whole league is at risk. It's a slippery slope that he would prefer not to go down.

- The Commish likely also believes at least a few other teams are doing this and made this sentence sting to curtail this as much as possible with other franchises going forward. No coach wants to pay a $500K fine. And many coaches could get fired over it from their bosses. That coupled with draft picks should curtail this happening again this season at least.

- I am guessing the Commish also told every NFL team that he won't stand for cheating (nor to a lesser extent whistle blowing) that brings the league into negative discussions. And I am guessing he told everyone that the next offense by any coach circumventing this will be dealt with severely. This was a major stain on the integrity of the game. The maximum fine was made to set a precedent that will only be greater if some other team is caught cheating by using videotape / stealing opponent's radio transmissions, etc.

- There was never a chance that a game would be forfeited. The second you do that and this story has legs forever. People that lost money betting on the Jets want their money back, etc. Fantasy players want the stats erased. It's a house of cards I doubt we would ever see because it would keep the story in the news for a very long time.

- I think the Commish felt like he had enough info to suspend Belicheck games. But doing so would likely lead to other coaches coming under scrutiny, etc and he knew it was best to not go that route. The NFL needs this story to die. The money is significant to the average fan and is a deterrent to every other coach. He knows the Patriots organization will likely pay the fine (give BB a raise down the road, etc). I think this penalty had a lot more to do with perception of being a harsh penalty and deterring this from continuing league-wide.

- For those wanting more blood, don't forget that this will indeed stain the legacy of Belicheck, Brady and the Patriots Super Bowl wins. That's a very big deal in my opinion.

- The game will clearly recover and all likely be forgotten soon. If nothing else, I think this set a precedent that cheating will be dealt with severely and that's good for everyone. Time to move on in my opinion. Many more games to be played.

Great post David, I agree with your thinking. Here's my take on the bolded part:The two biggest contributors to the SB wins had lots of question marks before they came to New England. Belichick had a brutal term as the Browns head coach, so his need to be successful in New England was immediate because he wasn't going to have much rope. And Brady was a 6th round pick. I think people forget that. He wasn't some superstar coming out of Michigan, he was a 6th rounder. It's sort of mind boggling to think that of the consensus top 3 QBs in the game right now, 2 of them were the overall #1 pick (Manning, Palmer) and one guy was the 199th overall pick (IIRC). Doesn't that make you wonder just a little bit? What happened that made Brady so good?

Just for the record, another all time great QB, Bart Starr, was a 17th round pick, the 200th overall, one pick lower than Brady, played for a pretty decent team and a pretty decent coach and won FIVE rings with what was then the dominant team of the generation. What made that guy so good?

And here I was betting that someone would throw out the undrafted Johnny Unitas first.

What's different is that scouting has gotten much better than it was back in the day. It's certainly not perfect, but it is much better than it used to be.

 

[parrot]

Not sure if this was brought up yet in the Pool, if not might deserve its own post, but for everyone crying about how taping is different than "normal" sign stealing bc it gives BB an unfair advantage that "normal" sign stealing doesn't, I point you to Exhibit A, a 5-year old SI article about sign stealing in which Shanahan brags:

It's no rumor, pal. "Our guy keeps a pair of binoculars on their signal-callers every game," says Broncos coach Mike Shanahan. "With any luck, we have their defensive signals figured out by halftime. Sometimes, by the end of the first quarter."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_ga...life_of_reilly/So please explain to me again how video taping it is such a unfair advantage? I'm curious?

If you really need it explained, sure thing.Video tapes can be replayed to make sure what you saw. What you see with your eyes cannot.

Video tapes can be directly shown to other people and to as many people as you want. What you see with your eyes cannot.

Video tapes can have their images printed out and synced up with snapshots of the defensive alignment that resulted on that play. What you see with your eyes cannot.

Video tapes can be archived and kept on hand and reviewed at any point in the future without losing any detail. What you see with your eyes cannot.

Video tapes are a type of electronic technology which in this case is being used for spying. Eyes can also be used for spying. But there are also a lot of other methods of spying such as bugs, microphones, etc, which the league probably does not want to allow since most people would say that goes beyond gamesmanship expected in what is at heart an athletic contest. And so maybe it makes sense to just not allow electronic spying of any kind rather than permit some types but not others.

Is there any rule against still photography?

 

[Dancing Bear]

Mungo you are not stating the facts. The Associated Press report clearly states that the camera was confiscated before the end of the 1st Q.

"The NFL said the camera was seized before the end of the first quarter and had no impact on the game."

Additionally all of you Patriots haters out there who are yelling from your pious glass houses just makes me laugh.

Creating signals and stealing signals is the cat-mouse shenanigans that has gone on for ages. It has now risen to an art form and it is something that EVERY team tries to master in both directions.

Belichick was found guilty of breaking a rule last week because he had a camera filming where it was not supposed to be. He was penalized for it, so were the Patriots. There is no evidence that links any wrong doing in prior games what-so-ever.

Get over it, move on and start looking forward to this week's round of games.

 

[Kirby]

He's always taping.

 

[Mungo Burrows]

Mungo you are not stating the facts. The Associated Press report clearly states that the camera was confiscated before the end of the 1st Q.

"The NFL said the camera was seized before the end of the first quarter and had no impact on the game."

Additionally all of you Patriots haters out there who are yelling from your pious glass houses just makes me laugh.

The only report I saw said before halftime. Sorry if I interpreted that incorrectly to mean right before halftime, but if it was before the end of the 1st quarter, that doesn't change my original point, that BB's statement could be interpreted to mean they could have been using the information at halftime under the ruse that that the game action was not "in progress" at that time.

Creating signals and stealing signals is the cat-mouse shenanigans that has gone on for ages. It has now risen to an art form and it is something that EVERY team tries to master in both directions.

That doesn't change the fact that the league has put in specific rules to limit the use of technology to this end and the patriots were caught brazenly ignoring them.

Belichick was found guilty of breaking a rule last week because he had a camera filming where it was not supposed to be. He was penalized for it, so were the Patriots. There is no evidence that links any wrong doing in prior games what-so-ever.

Where the hell are you getting this? Just because there is not a specific punishment for prior acts, does not mean there is not evidence of such acts. It is mostly circumstantial at this point because those cases were not investigated as thoroughly at the time, but there is still evidence that this was not an isolated instance.

 

[suspected]

As I posted in another thread on 610WIP this morning, Monte Kiffin then of the Tampa Bucs said that after a game against the Patriots in 2000, Charlie Weis came over to him and said, "we had all your defensive signals and you still beat us."

Did they acquire the signals legally or illegally?

 

[Ghost Rider]

Mungo you are not stating the facts. The Associated Press report clearly states that the camera was confiscated before the end of the 1st Q."The NFL said the camera was seized before the end of the first quarter and had no impact on the game."

a. The NFL has to say that, or else it is basically admitting that one of their games may have been impacted greatly by one team cheating. b. It has already been established by a cameraman who used to work for NFL teams that a team can watch what is being videotaped in real time, with it being fed to another monitor, so even if it was nabbed early, they still could have made use with what they saw.

 

[Intergalactic Kegger]

This is overblown. I know a lot of people that can look at the formations before every snap and correctly call the play the teams are going to run an overwhelming majority of the time. Its not rocket surgery. These guys are experts and they usually know what's coming. Its about having a disciplined team that listens when the coach tells them to be in a certain spot.

 

[suchislife]

This is overblown. I know a lot of people that can look at the formations before every snap and correctly call the play the teams are going to run an overwhelming majority of the time. Its not rocket surgery. These guys are experts and they usually know what's coming. Its about having a disciplined team that listens when the coach tells them to be in a certain spot.

Its even easier for the coach to tell the players what spot to be in if he knows the what the defense is planning. So much easier, in fact, that BB felt that cheating provided enough of an advantage he risked his own reputation for it. Sucks, I know.

 

[1huskerfan]

Not sure if this was brought up yet in the Pool, if not might deserve its own post, but for everyone crying about how taping is different than "normal" sign stealing bc it gives BB an unfair advantage that "normal" sign stealing doesn't, I point you to Exhibit A, a 5-year old SI article about sign stealing in which Shanahan brags:

It's no rumor, pal. "Our guy keeps a pair of binoculars on their signal-callers every game," says Broncos coach Mike Shanahan. "With any luck, we have their defensive signals figured out by halftime. Sometimes, by the end of the first quarter."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_ga...life_of_reilly/So please explain to me again how video taping it is such a unfair advantage? I'm curious?

Because it's expressly forbidden by rule.

So is excessive celebration.

 

[AB in DC]

b. It has already been established by a cameraman who used to work for NFL teams that a team can watch what is being videotaped in real time, with it being fed to another monitor, so even if it was nabbed early, they still could have made use with what they saw.

Emphasis added for obvious reasons.If the NFL seized a video camera and a transmitter, don't you think that would have been mentioned when the story was first made public?

 

[Banger]

Kinda reminds me of Randall Cunningham and his years in Minnesota. At that time the mic'd helmets could stay on for the duration of the play clock. Randall would come to the line and Brian Billick would radio down to Randall what the defense was and what his reads were. Randall went on to have the probably one of the best passing years of his career. The next year, the league changed the rules allowing the radios only to be on for a portion of the play clock and Randall was never the same.

I've never heard that before...very interesting...

 

[mad sweeney]

b. It has already been established by a cameraman who used to work for NFL teams that a team can watch what is being videotaped in real time, with it being fed to another monitor, so even if it was nabbed early, they still could have made use with what they saw.

Emphasis added for obvious reasons.If the NFL seized a video camera and a transmitter, don't you think that would have been mentioned when the story was first made public?

Doesn't seem like too much has been made public, we don't even really know what was on the tape. Transmitters are pretty standard for broadcast quality cameras and are either built in or attached on the back near the brick (battery). There've been so few details made public about the camera and the tape's contents I don't think we can rule anything out just because nothing has been said about it publicly.

 

[GregR_2]

b. It has already been established by a cameraman who used to work for NFL teams that a team can watch what is being videotaped in real time, with it being fed to another monitor, so even if it was nabbed early, they still could have made use with what they saw.

Emphasis added for obvious reasons.If the NFL seized a video camera and a transmitter, don't you think that would have been mentioned when the story was first made public?

They wouldn't need a transmitter. A Boston paper had an article about how such video could be used, and a former Patriots cameraman said the camera could just be plugged into a trunk down on the field which would make the feed available in the coaches booth where they could do a split screen.I haven't heard anything to the effect that was actually done. But it wouldn't require additional equipment from what that article said.

 

[phthalatemagic]

Sorry, but the idea of letting this go is funny. People want to talk about something else, cool. But the rest of us have had the Patriot Way rammed down our throat for 6 years. And after 3 days of SpyGate, its "let's move on"? Doubtful. The mighty have fallen, the body is still warm, and frankly, there are more questions out there. Pats fans are tired of hearing it? Then they should try and ignore it.

although I'm afraid they have the good and normal people between a rock and a hard place. Either everyone stops talking about it, or this message board gets turned into a nuclear wasteland.