Belichick Vs. Brady? (2 Viewers)

[Anarchy99]

Here's a hypothetical.  Swap eli and brady, nothing else. Who wins the 2007 superbowl? 

Not sure where you are going with this. Giants still win. Who wins recent Rams Pats SB with Goff on NE and Brady on the Rams? I think Pats still win. 

 

[lod001]

Giants

Same result if you swap belicheck & whoever the giants coach was.

 

[bostonfred]

Same result if you swap belicheck & whoever the giants coach was.

Misunderstood at first. So you think the giants were just the better team and would have won regardless of coaching or qb play

 

[bostonfred]

Not sure where you are going with this. Giants still win. Who wins recent Rams Pats SB with Goff on NE and Brady on the Rams? I think Pats still win. 

I'm trying to understand the other side of this debate.

Eli had a good game.  Coughlin coached a good game. People have made the case in the past that the giants won because Coughlin outcoached belichick, or because brady couldn't beat the interior pass rush, or both.  It's a standout game in the sense that both brady and belichick failed to live up to expectations because the other side beat them fair and square.  

Would belichick have beaten brady by coaching as well as Coughlin did on that day?  Would brady have beaten belichick by playing as well as eli? 

But i think your example of the rams superbowl might be better. 

 

[Tau837]

you still don't even understand what the argument was about

I understand perfectly what it was about. I think you do, too, but you refuse to engage in an honest conversation about it. Instead, you continually misrepresent my perspective, even in this latest post, and ignore portions of my posts that don't fit your argument.

The only thing you accomplished in this thread is to remind everyone what a condescending ### you are. Kudos. 

 

[Tau837]

Who wins recent Rams Pats SB with Goff on NE and Brady on the Rams? I think Pats still win. 

Tough call. Brady would be better than Goff, but Belichick would still outcoach McVay. I give the edge to the Pats with Goff over the Rams with Brady.

 

[bostonfred]

 you refuse to engage in an honest conversation about it.

I don't appreciate that you keep saying i have been dishonest, especially while repeatedly claiming that i said nobody but brady could have won.

Here's actual quotes to show my consistency and your continued dishonesty.  

There are some posters in this thread who seem to think that Belichick was irrelevant and Brady would have had the same career without him. I agree with your perspective that:

1. Brady would have been great regardless.
   
2. Brady would have accomplished less without Belichick.
   

I am shuked that there are people who disagree with #2 unless they are just  

Who said that?  Of course brady benefited from belichick. 

Yes, i agree that he would have accomplished less.  I think i've said that a few times. 

So apparently the only thing we disagree on is your certainty that no other QB could have won the Pats' first 2 playoff games this year in place of Brady. 

Nope.

I appreciate the spin,  but that's not what i said or what you said, and it's the main point of disagreement. 

You've repeatedly said other quarterbacks would have done the same thing. 

Including luck, who literally played the exact same team in the same stadium in the same playoffs one week prior, and didn't come close.  

That's giving zero credit to brady for actually doing it in a pressure situation.  And it's obviously not the first time he's done it. 

I have no problem saying other guys "could have" done it. 

Are you really picking at semantics of could/would? 

I believe many other QBs *would* have done it with the Pats coaching staff and roster. 

Do you really not see the difference?  This isn't just semantics.  It completely changes the meaning ot everything you've said.  

Would implies certainty. 

Could just means there's a non zero chance. 

When you say brady did win, but luck would have won, too, that's just ludicrous.  We have plenty of reason to suspect he wouldn't have - he didn't,  and he didn't come close.  13 points as opposed to 37 against the same defense, same stadium, one week apart. 

If you say "luck could have won", sure. 

I appreciate that you said a couple guys could have done it. That’s more than bf said. 

I said repeatedly that other guys could have won those games, but i take issue with your unsupported statements that several guys would have, including a guy who actually didn't under remarkably similar circumstances. 

I will gladly accept your apology when you're ready.  

 

[Ghost Rider]

I understand perfectly what it was about. I think you do, too, but you refuse to engage in an honest conversation about it. Instead, you continually misrepresent my perspective, even in this latest post, and ignore portions of my posts that don't fit your argument.

The only thing you accomplished in this thread is to remind everyone what a condescending ### you are. Kudos. 

Some of us did not need that reminder.

 

[Tau837]

I don't appreciate that you keep saying i have been dishonest

The shoe fits. If you don't want to be called on it, behave differently.

I will gladly accept your apology when you're ready

Yeah, keep holding your breath on that. This latest post of yours proves nothing, just more of the same. I'm not going to respond to you any more in this thread since it is pointless and polluting the thread. So no doubt you will have the last word. Have at it.

 

[bostonfred]

Thanks for confirming what I posted about you for all to see.  

 

[lod001]

Misunderstood at first. So you think the giants were just the better team and would have won regardless of coaching or qb play

Well, they won with the inferior coach and the inferior QB...twice.

 

[Faust]

Tom Brady and Gronk aren’t only ones having fun after Patriots breakup. Take a look at Bill Belichick and Cam Newton

 

[Dr. Octopus]

As much as I hate the Pats and therefore Brady, a NE/TB SuperBowl would be epic. 

 

[NE_REVIVAL]

As much as I hate the Pats and therefore Brady, a NE/TB SuperBowl would be epic. 

Would love to see it and much as I love the Pats, in that specific instance i would be rooting for Brady for a myriad of reasons.

Not really buying the "It’s rare to hear Belichick gush like that about a player." Its not rare at all, he has done it every week for the last 20 yrs when praising his opponents. What is he supposed to say about Newton? We will see? He hasn't done nothing yet? Not with the huge void with Brady now gone; its in BBs and the teams best interest to fill that void and that is exactly what he is doing. Cams a unique player who can do things few other qbs can do; he should be a man on a mission so this could\should work out really well. However much of what Cam does best is improvise and if its working things are going to be wonderful, if not, well hes not real accurate and the kisses and candy could be over real quick. Ive never had him on one of my fantasy and always felt he was too boom or bust for the price. Its going to be so weird watching him lead the Pats but I think he will be pretty good and they will win 10 games, we shall see.

 

[Faust]

O'Connor: The Patriots miss Tom Brady more every Sunday

 

[rockaction]

As much as I hate the Pats and therefore Brady, a NE/TB SuperBowl would be epic. 

I realized this year I don't hate Brady, I just hate the Patriots.

 

[voiceofunreason]

I realized this year I don't hate Brady, I just hate the Patriots.

Why choose? It's so easy to hate both.

 

[rockaction]

Why choose? It's so easy to hate both.

I don't really. Just can't lather up a hate for Tom. Seems okay.

The Patriots as an organization are much easier to hate, from the Patriots Way (which means embarrassing handies in the spa and prison lovers) on down through the organization. 

 

[wgoldsph]

I think the pats only add one win with Brady on their team this year.  They've got nobody out wide and their defense is meh.  Brady has a great defense and lots of talent to work with, although a lot of it's been hurt.

 

[Deamon]

I think the pats only add one win with Brady on their team this year.  They've got nobody out wide and their defense is meh.  Brady has a great defense and lots of talent to work with, although a lot of it's been hurt.

Yeah they're probably an 8 win team with Brady vs a 6-7 win team with Cam.  Either way they're out of the playoffs, so I think this break up was a win for Tom and a neutral move for the Pats.

 

[Faust]

Bill Belichick Threw the Phone Book at Tom Brady, and It Still Wasn’t Enough

 

[NE_REVIVAL]

Not sure where you are going with this. Giants still win. Who wins recent Rams Pats SB with Goff on NE and Brady on the Rams? I think Pats still win. 

With the thread bump I just now saw this gem from long ago and have to smh. Like all the other "unprovable" assertions people make about essentially any qb doing what Brady does it can't be disproven. This time it isn't Rodgers, Mahomes, Manning etc, it's Jared Goff could\can do what Brady does. I can't disprove it, but I can say it demonstrates how biased and silly some can get with Brady. No, put Brady on the Rams and the Rams win imho; they likely dominate big time imho. I guess I could be in the minority here, probably would make a good pole....

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

Bill Belichick Threw the Phone Book at Tom Brady, and It Still Wasn’t Enough

Lol.  Bucs scored 19 points and Brady threw zero touchdowns.  Fast forward to the end of the year, when Gilmore is active, Collins has been added, and MacNCheese has more gametime under his belt.  Brady made a great career management decision going to the Bucs with a ready made defense and a plethora of receiving targets, but the Bucs game was a vindication of the Patriots rebuild, as pundits called the 7 point spread charitable to NE.

Edit: I see NE is releasing Gilmore.  Doesn't change my perspective on the rebuild and prognosis.

 

[Anarchy99]

Lol.  Bucs scored 19 points and Brady threw zero touchdowns.  Fast forward to the end of the year, when Gilmore is active, Collins has been added, and MacNCheese has more gametime under his belt.  Brady made a great career management decision going to the Bucs with a ready made defense and a plethora of receiving targets, but the Bucs game was a vindication of the Patriots rebuild, as pundits called the 7 point spread charitable to NE.

Scratch the Gilmore part. Getting released or traded today.