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Belichick Vs. Brady? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Hov34
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TwinTurbo
Footballguy
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
Played it straight. Went with Belichick.
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
Survey results are telling. There are actually people who don't know history who will try to tell you he did a bad job in Cleveland. Pearls before swine.
Elevencents
Footballguy
This is like asking me if I would rather have $5 or $20.
Dezbelief
Footballguy
In the last 20 years Brady has broken a leg, Bill hasn't missed time due to a hoodie truck accident.
bostonfred
Footballguy
I'll take brady but i'm glad i don't have to choose. I think either would have likely won multiple superbowls without the other, but it's easier for a team with a great quarterback to attract a great coach than it is to find a great quarterback.
bucksoh
Footballguy
One winning season in 5 years even a poor or average coach can have similar results. What is this fox news where you just make crap up. 5-11 his last Browns season. 5-11 his first season as Pats coach. He got lucky with Brady! Cause he was a below aversge coach prior to Brady. Don't give me the one season when Brady was out. Because even a below average coach can have a winning season. The only thing special about Bill is that he has Brady. Nothing more.
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Anarchy99
Footballguy
There was a Joe Bryant thread on this exact subject last month. The year before B.B. coached the Browns, they went 3-13 with a -234 scoring diffential. Within 4 years, the Browns were 11-5, had a +136 scoring differential, made the playoffs, and had the #1 scoring defense.bucksoh said:
If it were so easy to turn teams around, how is that the Browns haven’t had a season like that since?
As for the following season, Teataverde got hurt early on and was never really right the rest of the season. The team announced they were moving to Baltimore, and things fell apart from there.
People forget that B.B. coached in three Super Bowls before he ever came across Tom Brady. He won twice as the DC with the Giants and lost once as an Assistant Head Coach with NE.
bucksoh
Footballguy
It is very easy to turn things around when you have a franchise qb. Any coach can have one good season without a franchise qb. Very few coaches are actually good with out a franchise qb. Bill isn't one of them no matter how much you bring up cleveland. He was a bad coach. Good assistant but bad HC wlithout Brady. To say otherwise is a fallacy. Once Brady gone he will revert back to being a bad HC.
Junior McSpiffy
Footballguy
He *did* do a bad job there. But the key is... he learned from his mistakes. He is the coach he is today because of that experience he went through. And not everyone can do that.SeniorVBDStudent said:
Anarchy99
Footballguy
bostonfred
Footballguy
If you include 2000 and the first two weeks of 2001 without brady, belichick is 19-19.
Maybe it's not fair to include his first year with the team before he got to pick his own players. Maybe it's not fair to include the year after they went 16-0.
What we can say is that the pats started 0-2 in 2001 before brady became quarterback and they won a bye week and won the superbowl.
We can also say that the Patriots have missed the playoffs 3 times (2000, 2002, 2008) under belichick, but only once under brady (2002).
There's no question that belichick is amazing, but the "look at 2008" argument is really incomplete. It's like minimizing peyton manning because he took over a 3 win colts team, led them to 3 wins, then took over a Broncos team that won a playoff berth with tebow the year before he arrived, and lost their first playoff game with manning.
The General
Footballguy
Bill is a much more skilled cheater and master of the dark arts. Went with him.
voiceofunreason
Footballguy
bucksoh
Footballguy
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Belichick showing again why he is the more valuable of the two. His D is shutting out the number 2 offense, while Brady is struggling vs the number 19 ranked D.
bucksoh
Footballguy
He was a bad HC in Cleveland, hard to dispute that but that is your opinion. I don't judge HC when they have an elite qb. Unless it's Tomlin he's just horrible. When Brady is done then I will reevaluate him, but based on Cleveland I'm not expecting much.
Elevencents
Footballguy
Doesn’t even need to be said. I am honestly shocked the number is up to 9 for Brady, even assuming half of those are jokes.
Elevencents
Footballguy
Who needs a QB when the other team can’t score. Oh yeah, the other team has a pretty prolific offense.
He could have won that one with just about any QB. Brady dropping like a stone at 18% which is generous. Manning wishes he was the guy lucky enough to ride Belicheck's coattails.
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Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Considering the lack of talent on the NE defense and the offense they were going against, you could argue that this was the greatest defensive performance by a Belichick defense in any Super Bowl. This surpasses what the '90 Giants did vs the Bills.
voiceofunreason
Footballguy
I agree. I think the coaching job in all 3 of their playoffs games was the best coaching job ever in a playoff run. He simply embarrassed the other coaches, who were supposedly some of the best minds in the game and 3 of the top 5 offenses.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
What if BB retires along with him? What if they ride off into the sunset together, holding hands while riding matching unicorns?
TwinTurbo
Footballguy
I called that 3 years ago after win #5. They will both leave at the same time. Now, back to beating up the hapless, 1 franchise QB in the division in 20 years, AFC East in 2019.
Short Corner
Footballguy
Jayrok
Footballguy
Agree with BB and also think it is an easy call. Brady is great and there is no question about that. GOAT, okay, all that. Would he have this success in Cleveland? Detroit? We'll never know.
Last night was a good example, imo, of why BB is so great. Brady was just okay, not great. That game was won during the two weeks prep and the execution of the defensive game plan.
The Patriot organization isn't handcuffed with huge salaries and over-valued, aging players with bloated salaries. They've been able to restructure Brady's contract (much credit to him for doing this too) and replacing other guys who were approaching new contract status with younger players earning less money. But the team is attractive to free agents because players know they have a great chance of going to the playoffs/SB. Right now it's a perfect storm. Won't last forever.
If Brady was one of those guys who wanted the richest QB contract in the league, I'd wager they wouldn't have been able to win some of their SBs. And their formula wouldn't be nearly as effective. But BB is the guy behind the curtain orchestrating this whole team. He isn't afraid to let a veteran go where other teams tend to reward older players for past performance.
The GM has something to do with it, of course, but he and BB have been brilliant for a long time in managing this team. Brady is the captain of the ship on the field but I'd rather have the front office, head coach and culture instead of one great QB.
Last night was a good example, imo, of why BB is so great. Brady was just okay, not great. That game was won during the two weeks prep and the execution of the defensive game plan.
The Patriot organization isn't handcuffed with huge salaries and over-valued, aging players with bloated salaries. They've been able to restructure Brady's contract (much credit to him for doing this too) and replacing other guys who were approaching new contract status with younger players earning less money. But the team is attractive to free agents because players know they have a great chance of going to the playoffs/SB. Right now it's a perfect storm. Won't last forever.
If Brady was one of those guys who wanted the richest QB contract in the league, I'd wager they wouldn't have been able to win some of their SBs. And their formula wouldn't be nearly as effective. But BB is the guy behind the curtain orchestrating this whole team. He isn't afraid to let a veteran go where other teams tend to reward older players for past performance.
The GM has something to do with it, of course, but he and BB have been brilliant for a long time in managing this team. Brady is the captain of the ship on the field but I'd rather have the front office, head coach and culture instead of one great QB.
sn0mm1s
Footballguy
So you are telling me you, if starting a franchise, would take Phil Jackson over Jordan?
Short Corner
Footballguy
Belichick, and I don't even really understand an argument for Brady.
This isn't a fair comparison. Individual players are a lot more important o basketball since there are only 10 playing at any given moment as opposed to 22, and all those guys are playing both offense and defense. Jordan impacts games a lot more than Brady(or any QB) does.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
I can’t tell if this is schtick or not, but NE doesn’t have a GM. It’s Belichick in that role.
Jayrok
Footballguy
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Wowbucksoh said:
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Basketball and football are worlds apart as far as the impact coaching has and the impact one player can make. I can't believe that analogy/argument was even made.
bostonfred
Footballguy
2001 superbowl mvp
2002 led nfl in passing touchdowns
2003 superbowl mvp
2004 superbowl title
2005 led nfl in passing yards
2007 nfl mvp, set nfl record for passing touchdowns
2009 comeback player of the year
2010 nfl mvp
2014 superbowl mvp
2016 superbowl mvp
2017 nfl mvp
2018 superbowl title
He's 30-10 in the post season. The next two guys on the list - montana and manning - are a combined 30-20. Montana played until he was 38 and manning until he was 39.
I understand that belichick shares those team accomplishments, and I think most people agree that the 2001 superbowl was more belichick than brady, but it was brady who delivered repeatedly in the 28-3 comeback.
And it was brady who orchestrated two touchdown drives in the last 3 minutes of the afc championship game against the chiefs. Brady without Belichick might not have won the superbowl last night. Belichick without brady would not have gotten there.
I'm immeasurably spoiled to have enjoyed rooting for both but if i could only have had one there's simply never been a quarterback with the combination of gaudy passing numbers, clutch playoff performances and selfless play.
2002 led nfl in passing touchdowns
2003 superbowl mvp
2004 superbowl title
2005 led nfl in passing yards
2007 nfl mvp, set nfl record for passing touchdowns
2009 comeback player of the year
2010 nfl mvp
2014 superbowl mvp
2016 superbowl mvp
2017 nfl mvp
2018 superbowl title
He's 30-10 in the post season. The next two guys on the list - montana and manning - are a combined 30-20. Montana played until he was 38 and manning until he was 39.
I understand that belichick shares those team accomplishments, and I think most people agree that the 2001 superbowl was more belichick than brady, but it was brady who delivered repeatedly in the 28-3 comeback.
And it was brady who orchestrated two touchdown drives in the last 3 minutes of the afc championship game against the chiefs. Brady without Belichick might not have won the superbowl last night. Belichick without brady would not have gotten there.
I'm immeasurably spoiled to have enjoyed rooting for both but if i could only have had one there's simply never been a quarterback with the combination of gaudy passing numbers, clutch playoff performances and selfless play.
sn0mm1s
Footballguy
Lets put it this way- you take Jordan in his prime and have him play with 4 college players, its still a game. You take Brady in his prime and have him play with 21 college kids, they get blown out of the building.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
2000-2009: 97-30 (.764) regular season record, 14-4 post season record (.778), 93.3 passer rating, 3-1 in SB, 4-1 in AFCCG
2010-2018: 110-30 (.786) regular season, 16-6 post season (.727), 101.0 passer rating, 3-2 in SB, 5-3 in AFCCG
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