Benching Players to Give Opponent Win (1 Viewer)

[fred_1_15301]

I think Stig is an ambulance chaser. At the very least, defense attorney.

IE is flat out smoking him in here and dude is somehow oblivious to it. It's like that 45yo guy w the gold chains in the college bar bragging to his buddy about how the chicks all want him because he's experienced. At some point you start feeling bad for the guy.ETA: ethically void folks such as this are why our main league has a rule that you must field a valid lineup. If you knowingly leave a slot open, or play someone who's injured then you can be up for vote of dismissal from the league. And the commish fixes your lineup with the last-played eligible player. In my office league you are simply ridiculed around the office the entire next week for your first offense... Booted from the league on your second.

I understand everyone's argument, I can just look at it objectively. If it had happened to me is blame our rules for allowing it. Good for league. You have the rules and the procedure in place. Kenny's league didn't. Jenny's league realized they had no case but to be mad. In the case of the current season ethics didn't matter. If there was a rule then sure, bring the hammer down. But objectively, he did nothing wrong under the circumstances. His league will have some rules, he may or may not be kicked out of the league but it will become a better league because of it.

Most people in here agree that the move was not illegal. Most in here feel that the move was unethical. Even Kenny seems to agree with that. Based on the reactions from his leaguemates, it seems like Kenny would have been the first person to take offense to this type of move if the tables were turned. By the way, do you agree that the move was unethical?

 

[I Am the Stig]

I think Stig is an ambulance chaser. At the very least, defense attorney.

IE is flat out smoking him in here and dude is somehow oblivious to it. It's like that 45yo guy w the gold chains in the college bar bragging to his buddy about how the chicks all want him because he's experienced. At some point you start feeling bad for the guy.ETA: ethically void folks such as this are why our main league has a rule that you must field a valid lineup. If you knowingly leave a slot open, or play someone who's injured then you can be up for vote of dismissal from the league. And the commish fixes your lineup with the last-played eligible player. In my office league you are simply ridiculed around the office the entire next week for your first offense... Booted from the league on your second.

I understand everyone's argument, I can just look at it objectively. If it had happened to me is blame our rules for allowing it. Good for league. You have the rules and the procedure in place. Kenny's league didn't. Jenny's league realized they had no case but to be mad. In the case of the current season ethics didn't matter. If there was a rule then sure, bring the hammer down. But objectively, he did nothing wrong under the circumstances. His league will have some rules, he may or may not be kicked out of the league but it will become a better league because of it.

Most people in here agree that the move was not illegal. Most in here feel that the move was unethical. Even Kenny seems to agree with that. Based on the reactions from his leaguemates, it seems like Kenny would have been the first person to take offense to this type of move if the tables were turned. By the way, do you agree that the move was unethical?

I do not believe the move was unethical because it was both legal and it benefitted his team. He had something to gain by it. If he was out of the playoffs and it was redraft then I believe it is unethical. He didn't do it to arbitrarily screw someone over. He did it to compete.

 

[fred_1_15301]

Ok stig I disagree with you but I do see where you're coming from

 

[I Am the Stig]

Ok stig I disagree with you but I do see where you're coming from

That is cool with me. I never presumed to change any minds on the matter.

 

[McGarnicle]

When I was commish of a big money league, I had a 12-page Word doc jam-packed with rules and I made everyone acknowledge they read it before the draft. The OP's scenario was covered in depth. In a nutshell, every owner was assumed to be knowledgeable about the game and expected to field their best lineup every week. Forgetting to fill a bye week once or twice was tolerated, but warnings were given. Something like this, you're not invited back the following year. And the commish (me) was given final judgement of whether tanking occurred or not. I debated whether any remedy was feasible after the fact, but then I'm left to set another team's lineup myself and I didn't want to go down that road. I figured long term, the dirtbags would be filtered out and we'd eventually arrive at a group of honest owners. Sucks that a season could still be tarnished because of this, but you can't fix everything.

Fantasy football has so many of these gray areas, and it's funny how morals and ethics become flexible when money is involved. You think you know guys, and you naively assume that everyone has the same baseline moral compass and sense of decency. Then there's a tight race and you approach the finish line and guys show their true colors.

In my opinion, any time one of these crises arises where people are up in arms about what to do, the commish didn't do his job. You can condemn the OP all you want, and my opinion of what he did would be similar, but if he didn't break a rule, the rules are flawed/incomplete. And for that I blame the commish more than the OP.

 

[GregR]

...In my opinion, any time one of these crises arises where people are up in arms about what to do, the commish didn't do his job. You can condemn the OP all you want, and my opinion of what he did would be similar, but if he didn't break a rule, the rules are flawed/incomplete. And for that I blame the commish more than the OP.

I only agree with you a little way on that. Yes, the commish needs to have rules that make it explicit you can't do this kind of stuff. He's surely due some blame there. However...Like most things in life, it takes experience for someone to learn that. Grab someone who has never played FF before and make him commish and he'd have no clue the vast number of things like this there are. You can commish years and not run into some of this. Dictionary definition collusion, tanking, fixing seedings, roster sharing, circumventing trade deadline with waivers, pick up and drop everyone on waivers. Etc, etc. Which is why a commish has to step up and draw the line against unethical acts, even if he doesn't have an explicit rule. All an explicit rule does is take away the wiggle room from someone who wants to be unethical. You don't have to give him that wiggle room in the first place.I participate in a lot of threads like this, and I debate a lot of people who argue for doing unethical things. There are some people who just have never considered the situation and who once they think it through, will come to the right conclusion. I was there myself... I never considered why sharing backup players would be wrong until I heard someone else discuss it. I'd never even thought of doing it, let alone considered the ethics.It's people like that, who are seeing it for the first time, that makes participating in these threads worthwhile. But if someone is wanting to cheat, showing how wrong it is will not dissuade him, nor will showing him how widespread people think it is wrong. Continually shredding his arguments won't change the fact that if he has the chance to cheat, he will.But it's worth it to do the shredding - for awhile anyway - just for those who are new to FF and still figuring it out, and otherwise might listen to such a person.

 

[Ignoratio Elenchi]

I do not believe the move was unethical because it was both legal and it benefitted his team. He had something to gain by it.

I'm a little ashamed that I bit on this stinky bait for so long, but it's hard to tell sometimes when you're being fished and when you're actually talking to someone that dumb. You went to the well here one too many times, though.

 

[I Am the Stig]

I do not believe the move was unethical because it was both legal and it benefitted his team. He had something to gain by it.

I'm a little ashamed that I bit on this stinky bait for so long, but it's hard to tell sometimes when you're being fished and when you're actually talking to someone that dumb. You went to the well here one too many times, though.

Lol

 

[DropKick]

if there is no rule, then I dont see why you cant do it since you feel as though this move could improve your team win a championship...

why did you half as# it though? only benching 3 people... you should have started your team or not started anyone.

you probably should have just come out and said what you were doing and why... people would still probably accuse you of colluding with the other owner...

I'm not sure I would have done it myself because of the drama that type of action causes in a league... plus you just made yourself public enemy #1... so if you lose people are really going to give it to you

This post makes me wonder why we have juries or even let people vote... How can you justify every bush league/cheating tactic with the logic that it's "OK, as long as you did it to win"?

 

[slickbilliam]

Yeah I kind of misread that. Putting in weaker players is one thing but leaving the spots open is too much. If i was the team that lost their spot I'd be asking for my money back.

 

[I Am the Stig]

Yeah I kind of misread that. Putting in weaker players is one thing but leaving the spots open is too much. If i was the team that lost their spot I'd be asking for my money back.

The answer is you lose your money and your spot. Win more games yourself. Don't count on somebody getting you in.

 

[WisWolvrns]

It would seem a lot of leagues need to purge owners this year with their thoughts on this guy's move.

I liken it to the same rules as starting bye week players. Do teams do that in your league? ie. fail to substitute in an actual starting player for someone on bye?

If teams are failing to make bye week substitutions it is the same as the person not starting a full lineup...

If you get pissed about this poster's decision, you should be as pissed with owners who don't substitute in bye week or Out players and the same rules/penalties should apply to both, because in both cases an owner is failing to 'try to win' per se.

 

[grateful zed]

the goal in sports gambling is to win money.

 

[username]

please tell us you lost this week in the playoffs.

 

[Kenny Powers]

please tell us you lost this week in the playoffs.

I clinched 1st place in week 11. I had a bye, guy.The person I let beat me is going to lose, the person who wouldve had the 6th seed wouldve lost as well. In an interesting surprise though, the guy who beat me last week unexpectedly jumped to the 5th seed making my friend Long Ball Larry the 6th seed as opposed to the 5th seed which he would have been. If he was the 5th seed he wouldve of lost, however now he's going to win. Looks like he owes me!

 

[Ignoratio Elenchi]

please tell us you lost this week in the playoffs.

I clinched 1st place in week 11. I had a bye, guy.The person I let beat me is going to lose, the person who wouldve had the 6th seed wouldve lost as well. In an interesting surprise though, the guy who beat me last week unexpectedly jumped to the 5th seed making my friend Long Ball Larry the 6th seed as opposed to the 5th seed which he would have been. If he was the 5th seed he wouldve of lost, however now he's going to win. Looks like he owes me!

What do you owe to the 3 seed he's knocking out?

 

[gusmahler]

Interesting conversation. I posted about a similar situation in my league. However, in my league, the guy was only threatening to take out Ridley (which would give him a loss and eliminate one guy from the playoffs). He hasn't actually done it and probably won't do it. (He may have been joking, I'm not sure)

But I have a question for you guys saying, "You must field a full team every week." Here's a situation that occurred in that same league. One of the games is a must win game between two bubble teams. Only the winner has a shot at the playoffs. The loser is eliminated. After the Sunday night game, one of the teams is ahead by two points. This team has the Houston defense tonight. His opponent is finished for the week. The team that is winning dropped the Houston defense and will play no one in that slot. So he's not fielding a full team, but he's doing so specifically to win.

Unlike the situation isn't in this thread, he isn't doing this to lose--he's doing this specifically to win: by benching the Houston defense, any risk of them having negative points this week are gone. Ethical?

 

[Ignoratio Elenchi]

But I have a question for you guys saying, "You must field a full team every week." Here's a situation that occurred in that same league. One of the games is a must win game between two bubble teams. Only the winner has a shot at the playoffs. The loser is eliminated. After the Sunday night game, one of the teams is ahead by two points. This team has the Houston defense tonight. His opponent is finished for the week. The team that is winning dropped the Houston defense and will play no one in that slot. So he's not fielding a full team, but he's doing so specifically to win. Unlike the situation isn't in this thread, he isn't doing this to lose--he's doing this specifically to win: by benching the Houston defense, any risk of them having negative points this week are gone. Ethical?

My leagues all have rules that prohibit incomplete lineups (as well as incomplete rosters, and add/drops in the middle of weekly games), so this kind of move wouldn't be allowed on numerous grounds. But if we didn't have any rules preventing it, I think I'd be ok with it. At least, I'd let it fly the first time it came up, and then we'd be putting in rules like I mentioned to prevent it in the future. It's too questionable to leave that kind of exploit open, as it opens a can of worms for other situations that aren't so clear.

 

[username]

Interesting conversation. I posted about a similar situation in my league. However, in my league, the guy was only threatening to take out Ridley (which would give him a loss and eliminate one guy from the playoffs). He hasn't actually done it and probably won't do it. (He may have been joking, I'm not sure)But I have a question for you guys saying, "You must field a full team every week." Here's a situation that occurred in that same league. One of the games is a must win game between two bubble teams. Only the winner has a shot at the playoffs. The loser is eliminated. After the Sunday night game, one of the teams is ahead by two points. This team has the Houston defense tonight. His opponent is finished for the week. The team that is winning dropped the Houston defense and will play no one in that slot. So he's not fielding a full team, but he's doing so specifically to win. Unlike the situation isn't in this thread, he isn't doing this to lose--he's doing this specifically to win: by benching the Houston defense, any risk of them having negative points this week are gone. Ethical?

totally different situation. I'd have no problem with this at all.

 

[fred_1_15301]

please tell us you lost this week in the playoffs.

I clinched 1st place in week 11. I had a bye, guy.The person I let beat me is going to lose, the person who wouldve had the 6th seed wouldve lost as well. In an interesting surprise though, the guy who beat me last week unexpectedly jumped to the 5th seed making my friend Long Ball Larry the 6th seed as opposed to the 5th seed which he would have been. If he was the 5th seed he wouldve of lost, however now he's going to win. Looks like he owes me!

Perhaps you can have sex with his sister.........

 

[I Am the Stig]

But I have a question for you guys saying, "You must field a full team every week." Here's a situation that occurred in that same league. One of the games is a must win game between two bubble teams. Only the winner has a shot at the playoffs. The loser is eliminated. After the Sunday night game, one of the teams is ahead by two points. This team has the Houston defense tonight. His opponent is finished for the week. The team that is winning dropped the Houston defense and will play no one in that slot. So he's not fielding a full team, but he's doing so specifically to win. Unlike the situation isn't in this thread, he isn't doing this to lose--he's doing this specifically to win: by benching the Houston defense, any risk of them having negative points this week are gone. Ethical?

My leagues all have rules that prohibit incomplete lineups (as well as incomplete rosters, and add/drops in the middle of weekly games), so this kind of move wouldn't be allowed on numerous grounds. But if we didn't have any rules preventing it, I think I'd be ok with it. At least, I'd let it fly the first time it came up, and then we'd be putting in rules like I mentioned to prevent it in the future. It's too questionable to leave that kind of exploit open, as it opens a can of worms for other situations that aren't so clear.

I don't care if there is a rule stating you must roster a full team, this is a instance where benching a player should be allowed. And in truth, any player, When negative points are possible, a zero is a "positive" score.

 

[Kenny Powers]

please tell us you lost this week in the playoffs.

I clinched 1st place in week 11. I had a bye, guy.The person I let beat me is going to lose, the person who wouldve had the 6th seed wouldve lost as well. In an interesting surprise though, the guy who beat me last week unexpectedly jumped to the 5th seed making my friend Long Ball Larry the 6th seed as opposed to the 5th seed which he would have been. If he was the 5th seed he wouldve of lost, however now he's going to win. Looks like he owes me!

What do you owe to the 3 seed he's knocking out?

Tough luck? Cant do anything about it now, and like I said, I pushed for overturning my move since it was obvious who I wouldve startedFeel bad for my 3 seed friend though because he made the playoffs as the 6 seed last year, then yahoo adjusted scoring and gave Mike freaking Tolbert 6 solo tackles and he ended up losing because of it. I think he just has bad fantasy luck in general now that I think about it.

 

[Kenny Powers]

please tell us you lost this week in the playoffs.

I clinched 1st place in week 11. I had a bye, guy.The person I let beat me is going to lose, the person who wouldve had the 6th seed wouldve lost as well. In an interesting surprise though, the guy who beat me last week unexpectedly jumped to the 5th seed making my friend Long Ball Larry the 6th seed as opposed to the 5th seed which he would have been. If he was the 5th seed he wouldve of lost, however now he's going to win. Looks like he owes me!

Perhaps you can have sex with his sister.........

Been trying for years but she's gotta be mid-30's now and he said she caught the fats

 

[Kenny Powers]

#1 seed in all 3 money leagues...Barring Bilal Powell outscoring Shonn by 8 pts tomorrow night, Im gonna lose in all 3 leagues this week.

DONT #### WITH THE FANTASY GODS!!!!!!

 

[otb_lifer]

#1 seed in all 3 money leagues...Barring Bilal Powell outscoring Shonn by 8 pts tomorrow night, Im gonna lose in all 3 leagues this week.

DONT #### WITH THE FANTASY GODS!!!!!!

... full circle; lesson learned ... for all of us

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

if there is no rule, then I dont see why you cant do it since you feel as though this move could improve your team win a championship...

why did you half as# it though? only benching 3 people... you should have started your team or not started anyone.

you probably should have just come out and said what you were doing and why... people would still probably accuse you of colluding with the other owner...

I'm not sure I would have done it myself because of the drama that type of action causes in a league... plus you just made yourself public enemy #1... so if you lose people are really going to give it to you

This post makes me wonder why we have juries or even let people vote... How can you justify every bush league/cheating tactic with the logic that it's "OK, as long as you did it to win"?

Because you play to win the game. Period.

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

#1 seed in all 3 money leagues...Barring Bilal Powell outscoring Shonn by 8 pts tomorrow night, Im gonna lose in all 3 leagues this week.

DONT #### WITH THE FANTASY GODS!!!!!!

... full circle; lesson learned ... for all of us who believe in magic

Fixed.