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Best all-time first-round picks (1 Viewer)

SuperJohn96

RPS World Champion
Best all-time first-round picks

By Charles Robinson, Yahoo! Sports

April 23, 2007

As wild dreams go, this NFL draft was the Playboy Mansion on alumni night.

Five Pro Football Hall of Fame players selected in the first round – a number that will swell to six when Washington Redskins cornerback Darrell Green reaches eligibility. Three franchise quarterbacks who would lead their teams to 10 Super Bowl appearances and obliterate league passing records. Not to be forgotten: one of the best running backs and offensive linemen in history.

Yes, 1983 was a great year to have a first-round pick.

With that particular draft in mind, we got to thinking. If first-round picks mean as much as NFL personnel gurus say they do, what were the greatest first-round picks in league history? Who was the greatest No. 1 ever? The greatest No. 2? And has there even been a greatest No. 32?

So we peeled into the league's voluminous 1,500-page encyclopedia, in search of the ultimate first round – the best No. 1 picks of all time. Some opinions formed won't be surprising, with teams like Pittsburgh, Washington, San Francisco and Baltimore/Indianapolis each landing three of the best first-round picks taken at their respective positions.

But some of the opinions are bound to infuriate. Like Richard Seymour being named the best No. 6 pick in history or the Colts having a quarterback and two wideouts on the list – none named Peyton Manning or Marvin Harrison.

At best, the list is a fluid argument. At worst, some will find it to be an atrocity (like Steelers fans who will see that only two of their famed 1970s draft picks made the cut). Keep in mind that this list doesn't include the USFL draft, which was talent rich, or supplemental picks, which produced some great players as well. And of course, realize that picks 29-32 have a rather limited base of players because league expansion is still fresh.

With all of those factors in mind, here is our list of the best No. 1 picks since the league's merger in 1970.

TEAMS WITH PICKS ON THE LIST

Colts, 3

49ers, 3

Redskins, 3

Steelers, 3

Broncos, 2

Browns, 2

Cowboys, 2

Patriots, 2

Ravens, 2

Bears, 1

Bills, 1

Buccaneers, 1

Dolphins, 1

Falcons, 1

Giants, 1

Lions, 1

Oilers, 1

Rams, 1

Vikings, 1

1. John Elway, QB, Baltimore Colts (1983)

Many apologies to Terry Bradshaw, Troy Aikman and Peyton Manning. Manning might take this spot before it's all over, but Elway gets the nod for having the ultimate mix of credentials: arm strength, clutch play, toughness and statistics. Not to mention the fact that he never had the dominant defenses provided Bradshaw and Aikman. Elway's five Super Bowl appearances are still plenty impressive, particularly the back-to-back championship wins. He hung up his cleats with one more Super Bowl run likely left in him, too. And while he never actually played for the Colts, that doesn't mean they didn't take the right guy.

2. Lawrence Taylor, LB, New York Giants (1981)

Marshall Faulk has a legitimate claim to this spot, but Taylor still resonates as perhaps the most feared defensive player in the history of the league. He had speed, strength, and intimidation, and was one of the few defensive players consistently capable of making a game-deciding play. His off-the-field issues leave a slight tarnish on his legacy, but even that can't stand in the way of him being considered the best No. 2 pick ever.

3. Barry Sanders, RB, Detroit Lions (1989)

Simeon Rice, Anthony Munoz and Steve McNair deserve honorable mention, but Sanders will likely never be duplicated when it comes to his combination of shiftiness and pure running ability. He was by no means a complete running back, but he was the definition of a player who could break an 80-yard touchdown under any circumstances. And he likely would still hold the league's all-time rushing mark if he hadn't unexpectedly retired in the latter stages of his prime.

4. Walter Payton, RB, Chicago Bears (1975)

Derrick Thomas and Jonathan Ogden get plenty of consideration, but Payton defined toughness at his position – not to mention the city he represented. He set the bar for complete backs with his ability to run, catch and block. And his style mixed power, athleticism and speed. He won a Super Bowl, retired as the league's all-time leading rusher, and is still remembered as one of the best character guys the NFL has ever seen.

5. Deion Sanders, CB, Atlanta Falcons (1989)

Deion or LaDainian Tomlinson? It's amazing that after seeing Tomlinson play only six seasons, this is already a tough choice. But for now, Sanders and his two Super Bowl rings get the honors. Cornerback might be the toughest position to play in the NFL outside of quarterback. Sanders was simply dominant in pass coverage, and a dangerous kick returner as well. His run support and flashy demeanor left something to be desired, but skill-wise he could realistically cut the field in half for opposing passing attacks.

6. Richard Seymour, DE, New England Patriots (2001)

This is bound to be a controversial selection with so many superb candidates: John Riggins, Tim Brown, Walter Jones and Torry Holt. Seymour wins out with his three Super Bowl rings, and the fact that he's been the Patriots' best defensive player during his six-year career. He isn't the sexiest pick because he hasn't loaded up on sacks while primarily playing in the 3-4 defense and then moving to defensive tackle in 4-3 sets. But he's the Tom Brady of the Patriots' defense, and he's just hit his prime. Enough said.

7. Champ Bailey, CB, Washington Redskins (1999)

Phil Simms and Troy Vincent have compelling arguments. However, Bailey now belongs in the conversation for best cornerback in history, and has done so in an era when pass-interference and illegal contact rules put his position at an extreme disadvantage. He's arguably the only true "shutdown" cornerback left in the NFL, and it has become absurd to throw in his direction in the red zone.

8. Ronnie Lott, S, San Francisco 49ers (1981)

Willie Roaf and Mike Munchak deserve a tip of the cap for being prolific at their offensive line positions. But Lott lands the honor for being the best safety in league history. He was cut in the monstrous mold of current hitters like Roy Williams and Sean Taylor, but also had the coverage abilities of Ed Reed. Lott was the complete package, and there has yet to be a safety that can approach him.

9. Bruce Matthews, OG, Houston Oilers (1983)

Brian Urlacher could take this spot before it's all over, but Matthews was one of the elite players at his position (wherever Houston put him) for a ridiculous 19 seasons. He blocked for some of the most prolific offenses in league history and landed in the Pro Bowl a record-tying 14 times.

10. Rod Woodson, CB, Pittsburgh Steelers (1987)

Another pick with plenty of candidates: guys like Jerome Bettis, Marcus Allen and Willie Anderson. Woodson was a Pro Bowler an astonishing 11 times, and a key member of the 2000 Ravens defense that might be the best in league history. A complete cornerback who could cover physical and finesse wideouts, he didn't surrender anything in run support, either. And his play didn't drop off when he was moved to safety later in his career.

11. Michael Irvin, WR, Dallas Cowboys (1988)

Dwight Freeney is making a push for this spot, but for now it belongs to Irvin. A newly minted Hall of Famer with three Super Bowl rings, Irvin was a perfect prototype of the big, physical receiver with speed. His off-field issues were a big headache and a spinal injury cut his career short, but neither changes his impact. He was one of the most consistently elite players of his era, and an irreplaceable cog in the Cowboys' offense in the championship years.

12. Warren Sapp, DT, Tampa Bay Buccaneers (1995)

Warrick Dunn and Clay Matthews were very good players tabbed here, and Shawne Merriman has a great start to his career. But Sapp is unquestionably the best player ever taken at this spot, and second place isn't even close. Love him or hate him, Sapp changed the way we thought about defensive tackles as impact players. A consistent double-team in his prime who sometimes drew triple-team attention, he will end his career as the best pass-rushing defensive tackle in NFL history. He won a Super Bowl, made the players around him better, and was remarkably durable for the beating he took at his position.

13. Franco Harris, RB, Pittsburgh Steelers (1972)

Tony Gonzalez and Kellen Winslow get votes, but the best player tabbed at this slot was clearly Harris. He's a nine-time Pro Bowler with four Super Bowl rings, and owner of quite possibly the most legendary play in postseason history (the Immaculate Reception). In an era when running backs were vital to survival, Harris was the cog that made the Steelers go. He was the quintessential workhorse, and carried the offense through the first half of Bradshaw's career.

14. Jim Kelly, QB, Buffalo Bills (1983)

There have been plenty of good players taken at this slot – guys like Tommie Harris, Jeremy Shockey, Reuben Brown, Eddie George – and seven-time Pro Bowler Randy Gradishar was an immense talent. But it's unlikely we'll see another one lead his team to four straight Super Bowls. Yes, Kelly and the Bills never managed to secure a ring, but his stats were stellar, and leading a team to four straight Super Bowls will likely never happen again.

15. John Mobley, LB, Denver Broncos (1996)

For whatever reason, this spot hasn't produced "great" players. There was a smattering of good ones, including Cincinnati wideout Issac Curtis, who made four consecutive Pro Bowls in the 1970s. But the title of best No. 15 pick should go to Mobley, who won two Super Bowl rings and was an All Pro with the Broncos before having his career cut short by a spinal injury. Mobley was arguably the best defensive player on the field for the Broncos during his prime, and one of the league's fastest linebackers.

16. Jerry Rice, WR, San Francisco 49ers (1985)

There has been a wealth of impressive talent (Troy Polamalu, Santana Moss, Julian Peterson and Jevon Kearse) selected at this spot. But who are we kidding: Rice is easily the best No. 16 pick ever and probably the best draft pick in league history. He left the game with mind-boggling stats and a career résumé that will likely be untouchable unless the league just does away with cornerbacks altogether. Simply put, Rice is probably the best player in the history of the NFL.

17. Emmitt Smith, RB, Dallas Cowboys (1990)

Steve Hutchinson is going to be a Hall of Famer, and Doug Williams won a Super Bowl and set a historic precedent for black quarterbacks in the NFL. But neither had a chance of securing the title as best No. 17 pick of all time. This one was as simple to call as Rice at No. 16. Smith was the complete back – running, receiving and blocking – and was a quality guy as well. Three Super Bowl rings, a perennial Pro Bowler and the league's all-time leading rusher; a title he should hold for a while.

18. Art Monk, WR, Washington Redskins (1980)

No. 18 overall hasn't churned out much more than a cast of solid talent. That makes Monk, who has near as you can get Hall of Fame credentials without actually getting in, the easy pick. Three Super Bowl rings, and he retired as the league's all-time leader in receptions, single-season catches and consecutive games with a catch. He was a quiet, humble star, which may have something to do with his detriment among Hall of Fame voters.

19. Randall McDaniel, G, Minnesota Vikings (1988)

This might have been the toughest pick to call and any choice was bound to ruffle some feathers. There were some good players to consider, including Shaun Alexander and Jack Tatum. But ultimately it was Marvin Harrison battling it out with McDaniel for the title of best No. 19 pick ever. Harrison will probably take the honors by the time he retires, but the nod goes to McDaniel now, for his 12 straight Pro Bowls and his standing as one of the greatest guards to ever play the game. Harrison's Super Bowl ring should probably give him the edge right now, but I'm giving McDaniel some extra credit for being the sole bearer of his own success. Harrison has the luxury of one of the greatest quarterbacks in history throwing him the ball.

20. Jack Youngblood, DE, St. Louis Rams (1971)

This is another one of those spots that has produced some good players, guys like Javon Walker, Adam Archuleta and Steve Atwater. But Youngblood is a no-brainer. A Hall of Famer and five-time All Pro who played in the 1980 Super Bowl with a fractured fibula, he was the essence of today's defensive end – a mixture of strength, toughness and speed that few ends boasted in the 1970s. Twice named NFC defensive player of the year, Youngblood was also a member of the 1970's All-Decade team.

21. Lynn Swann, WR, Pittsburgh Steelers (1974)

Basically, this pick boils down to Swann vs. Randy Moss and how you feel about their respective numbers. As it stands, Moss has roughly double the career yardage and receiving touchdowns of Swann. And Swann' didn't quite have the impact on a defense in his heyday as Moss. But Swann has a few things Randy doesn't: four Super Bowl rings, a Super Bowl MVP (first receiver to ever win the award), and the respect of all his former teammates. Not only did Swann put up three straight huge performances in the Super Bowl, he conducted himself with class all the way. In this particular argument, that is taken into account when separating who was the better pick.

22. Andre Rison, WR, Indianapolis Colts (1989)

Jack Reynolds gets some consideration, particularly with the two Super Bowl rings he won late in his career with the 49ers. But the nod goes to Rison, who was a better player than people seem to remember. He had nice career numbers: five Pro Bowls, 10,205 receiving yards, 84 touchdowns, and a Super Bowl win with the Green Bay Packers (which saw him open the game with a 54-yard touchdown catch from Brett Favre).

23. Ozzie Newsome, TE, Cleveland Browns (1978)

Some might make the argument for Ty Law in this spot, but he's not in the Hall of Fame and he may never get there. Ray Guy had a great career, too, winning three Super Bowls and establishing himself as perhaps the best punter in NFL history. But come on: he's a punter. A three-time Pro Bowler who finished his career with an impressive 662 receptions and 7,980 receiving yards (and 47 touchdown catches), Newsome was one of the toughest tight ends to ever take the field. He never missed a single game in his career – 198 straight in the regular season.

24. Ed Reed, S, Baltimore Ravens (2002)

There haven't been a lot of impact selections at No. 24. Steven Jackson has a chance to be special, and guys like Dallas Clark and Eric Moulds have been solid. But nobody has come close to Reed, who in only five seasons is already working on a Hall of Fame résumé. A three-time Pro Bowler who earned NFL defensive player of the year in 2004, Reed owns the longest interception return in history (106 yards) and most interception return yardage (358) in a single season. He has 27 interceptions in five seasons and is considered one of the most complete safeties, if not the best, in the game today.

25. Ted Washington, DT, San Francisco 49ers (1991)

This pick hasn't exactly oozed great players. Bobby Butler had a long career, and guys like Charles Grant, Donovin Darius and Chris Hovan have been good-but-not great. So Washington gets the crown, with his four Pro Bowl appearances and one Super Bowl ring with the Patriots. He'll be remembered as one of the biggest run-clogging defensive tackles in history, with his weight ballooning over 370 pounds at times. What's been most remarkable is Washington's durability: He's going into his 17th NFL season – a span in which he's played in 231 regular season games.

26. Ray Lewis, LB, Baltimore Ravens (1996)

This has been a remarkably lucrative pick over the years, producing Lito Sheppard, Alan Faneca, Dana Stubblefield, Robert Porcher and Jim Harbaugh. But only Hall of Famer Joe Delamielleure rivaled Lewis for the right to be best No. 26 pick ever. Still, the nod goes to Lewis, because he'll be a Hall of Famer, too, and he was the centerpiece of the famed 2000 Ravens defense, which might go down as the best ever. Lewis gets docked points for his role in obstructing a police investigation of a double-homicide in 2000, but even that's not enough to keep him out of this spot.

27. Dan Marino, QB, Miami Dolphins (1983)

Larry Johnson was a great pick at this spot, but even he doesn't come within a continent of Marino, who would likely be considered the greatest player in NFL history had he only won even one Super Bowl. Still, Marino's one of the most spectacular to ever pick up a football, and still holds nearly every major passing record in the game (Green Bay's Brett Favre is within reach of a handful). While Elway may have had the strongest arm the league has ever seen, Marino had the quickest release. While the lack of a Super Bowl will forever haunt his résumé, he should get more credit for the numerous times he put average Dolphins teams on his back and took them to the playoffs.

28. Darrell Green, CB, Washington Redskins (1983)

You have to be great to keep Derrick Brooks out of this slot. That applies to Green. While he may never had some of the dominant single-season performances of Brooks, Green did play in seven Pro Bowls and held down a starting cornerback spot for an astonishing 20 years in Washington (tied with Jackie Slater for the most seasons with one team). That's a feat we will undoubtedly never see again at the cornerback spot. The fastest player in the NFL for many of his years, Green notched 54 career interceptions and won two Super Bowls with the Redskins, while maintaining his reputation as one of the best character guys in the NFL.

29. Derrick Alexander, WR, Cleveland Browns (1994)

With only 14 players to choose from at this spot, the pickings are pretty slim. Blake Brockermeyer had a decent career, and Nick Barnett and Nick Mangold look like they have promising careers ahead of them. But in what's essentially a best-available situation, Alexander is the pick, with his three 1,000-yard-plus receiving seasons and career totals of 6,971 receiving yards and 40 touchdowns in nine seasons.

30. Reggie Wayne, WR, Indianapolis Colts (2001)

This pick has produced some decent talent despite only having a pool of 12 players having come off the board here in the first round. Keith Bulluck and Patrick Kerney have both made a Pro Bowl and been good starters. And guys like Heath Miller, Joseph Addai and Kevin Jones have gotten off to a good start. That leaves Wayne as the top No. 30 pick in history. Despite playing across from Manning's favorite target in Harrison, Wayne has developed into the true deep threat on that offense, carving out three straight 1,000-yard seasons, a Pro Bowl berth in 2006 and 37 touchdown catches in the last five seasons.

31. Al Wilson, LB, Denver Broncos (1999)

Only nine players have been taken at No. 31 overall, but it's produced good young players such as Todd Heap, Mike Patterson and Nnamdi Asomugha. Wilson has been one of the best playmaking middle linebackers in the league since getting tabbed by Denver at this spot. He's made four Pro Bowls and despite getting shopped this offseason, he's still got some quality years left ahead of him.

32. Logan Mankins, G, New England Patriots (2005)

With only six players in the pool at this spot, it's probably pointless even picking a player. But for what it's worth, Mankins was slid into the lineup from day one – the first Patriots offensive lineman to start every game as a rookie since John Hannah. He's made big strides both of his first two seasons, and if he continues his current trajectory, should be heading for his first Pro Bowl berth in 2006.
linkWeird how some picks have never really produced any players of real distinction.

 
31.

Only nine players have been taken at No. 31 overall

32.

With only six players in the pool at this spot
There have always been a #31 and #32 pick in every draft. I wish they would have included them even if they weren't first-rounders.
 
If John Mobley is the best ALL-TIME 15th overall selection then the Steelers should be calling the Saint to drop down to 27th. :moneybag:

 
Interesting article. IMO it shows just how hard it is to find the best players. Definitely a few that I don't see as being all time greats... at least not yet... like Seymour, Mobley, Rison, Reed, Washington, Alexander, Wayne, Wilson, and Mankins.

IMO Harrison should have been the choice over McDaniel. He is arguably the second best WR of all time (not meaning to argue this point here, just saying there is a case).

How great is it to get players like: Rice at 16, Emmitt at 17, Lewis at 26, Marino at 27, Green at 28.

 
If John Mobley is the best ALL-TIME 15th overall selection then the Steelers should be calling the Saint to drop down to 27th. :goodposting:
If Mobley is the best 15 of all time then whomever gets chosen there this year has a real good chance of winning that "honor"
 
Best all-time first-round picks

... 15. John Mobley, LB, Denver Broncos (1996)

For whatever reason, this spot hasn't produced "great" players. There was a smattering of good ones, including Cincinnati wideout Issac Curtis, who made four consecutive Pro Bowls in the 1970s. But the title of best No. 15 pick should go to Mobley, who won two Super Bowl rings and was an All Pro with the Broncos before having his career cut short by a spinal injury. Mobley was arguably the best defensive player on the field for the Broncos during his prime, and one of the league's fastest linebackers.

... 29. Derrick Alexander, WR, Cleveland Browns (1994)

With only 14 players to choose from at this spot, the pickings are pretty slim. Blake Brockermeyer had a decent career, and Nick Barnett and Nick Mangold look like they have promising careers ahead of them. But in what's essentially a best-available situation, Alexander is the pick, with his three 1,000-yard-plus receiving seasons and career totals of 6,971 receiving yards and 40 touchdowns in nine seasons.
These two made me stop in my tracks and forced me to do some research. I started back from 2006 to 1980 for the 15th and 29nth picks. I'll go back later and go into the second round to fill-in the remaining 29 through 32 picks to 1980 but these are some alternate names that I found.2003

29 Nick Barnett Packers LB Oregon State

Barnett isn't great but neither was Derrick Alexander. I would prolly substitute his name for DA in the 29 slot.

1980

15 Dennis Smith Broncos DB USC

I think this was an oversight. Smith is superior to Mobley and IMHO its not even close.

Its soo odd to see John Mobley's name in the same breath with Jim Kelley and Jerry Rice. He obviously does not fit so maybe the fiftheenth pick is a bad Feng Sui deal or numeralogical thingy, I dunno but Dennis Smith fits in better than John Mobely in my humble opinion. The 29th pick really didn't have lots to choose from and I'll go back later and cull names of 29 through 32 from the second round from 1991 when the league expanded to go past the 28th slot in the first round. But just going back to 1980 for the 15th pick and to 1991 for the 29th slot I found these alternative names that I would put in place of Mobley and Alexander.

 
SI.com did the same thing but their superior list includes pre-1970 draft picks as well.
Here are the differences and my opinion on whether or not SI's pick was better than the Yahoo article:3. **** Butkus over Barry Sanders. Good call. :thumbup:

6. Jim Brown over Richard Seymour. Now that looks much better. This is obvious. :thumbup:

7. Phil Simms over Champ Bailey. I don't agree... the only reason to consider this is because Champ isn't done yet. It looks like the SI article was from April 2006... would one more year have made a difference? :goodposting:

8. Lance Allworth over Ronnie Lott. Very tough call IMO. I'd probably stay with Lott. :loco:

9. Lenny Moore over Bruce Matthews. SI doesn't even mention Matthews... I'm not too familiar with Moore and I find it difficult to truly assess the greatness of elite OL... but I'd probably lean towards Matthews here. :thumbup:

10. Marcus Allen over Rod Woodson. I'd stay with Woodson, but it's close. :lmao:

11. Paul Warfield over Michael Irvin. I'd agree... but SI also mentions Frank Gifford. He was before my time, but my perception was that Gifford would get the nod here.

12. Joe Namath over Warren Sapp. For body of work, I'd have to stick with Sapp. For fame and peak greatness, I could see Namath here.

15. Alan Page over Ken Mobley. This is obvious. :thumbup:

19. Marvin Harrison over Randall McDaniel. As I already posted, I agree. :thumbup:

21. Randy Moss over Lynn Swann. I agree, but it's close. It looks like the SI article was from April 2006... would one more year have made a difference? It certainly seems like a closer choice today than last year. :thumbup:

22. Hacksaw Reynolds over Andre Rison. Definitely. :thumbup:

25. Stanley Morgan over Ted Washington. I suppose... but these choices are underwhelming.

29. George Teague over Derrick Alexander. I suppose, but this says more about Alexander than Teague. :thumbup:

30. Keith Bulluck over Reggie Wayne. I don't think so, though neither are compelling. It looks like the SI article was from April 2006... would one more year have made a difference? :thumbdown:

31. Todd Heap over Al Wilson. I suppose... but these choices are underwhelming.

32. Ben Watson over Logan Mankins. I suppose... but these choices are underwhelming.

 
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Seeing Al Wilson and John Mobley make a list that Randy Gradishar can't crack isn't something I thought I'd see anytime soon.

 
Ditkaless Wonders said:
Clearly the Packers ought to move out of the first round since they don't know how to use the pick.
Not true - in 1983 they took Tony Mandarich over Barry Sanders. As a Lion fan I think Green Bay did an EXCELLENT job with that pick.
 
One more reason to love Peyton Manning: at some point he'll knock that overrated dipwad Elway off the top of lists like this.

 
One more reason to love Peyton Manning: at some point he'll knock that overrated dipwad Elway off the top of lists like this.
This is not only my favorite post today, it may move into my top ten.
 
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Ditkaless Wonders said:
Clearly the Packers ought to move out of the first round since they don't know how to use the pick.
Not true - in 1983 they took Tony Mandarich over Barry Sanders. As a Lion fan I think Green Bay did an EXCELLENT job with that pick.
agreed. the pack taking mandarich was probably one of the lions best draft moments. ETA: it was the 1989 NFL draft
 
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I like the list, with the few quibbles most of you have posted. The guy does overvalue SB wins, and is defintely prone to hyperbole - Rice is not the greatest draft pick ever, mainly because he was taken at 1.16.

 
I like the list, with the few quibbles most of you have posted. The guy does overvalue SB wins, and is defintely prone to hyperbole - Rice is not the greatest draft pick ever, mainly because he was taken at 1.16.
So which pick was better?
 
I like the list, with the few quibbles most of you have posted. The guy does overvalue SB wins, and is defintely prone to hyperbole - Rice is not the greatest draft pick ever, mainly because he was taken at 1.16.
So which pick was better?
Just off the top of my head, Montana in the 4th is a much better pick, or even Brady in the 6th. And Im not even that big of a supporter of either of those QBs. Im sure you can find other instances like that and proably even at much lower rounds. So just on a value basis, Rice wouldn't be the greatest draft pick.
 
I like the list, with the few quibbles most of you have posted. The guy does overvalue SB wins, and is defintely prone to hyperbole - Rice is not the greatest draft pick ever, mainly because he was taken at 1.16.
So which pick was better?
Just off the top of my head, Montana in the 4th is a much better pick, or even Brady in the 6th. And Im not even that big of a supporter of either of those QBs. Im sure you can find other instances like that and proably even at much lower rounds. So just on a value basis, Rice wouldn't be the greatest draft pick.
I think the context of this discussion is first-rounders, isn't it?
 
I like the list, with the few quibbles most of you have posted. The guy does overvalue SB wins, and is defintely prone to hyperbole - Rice is not the greatest draft pick ever, mainly because he was taken at 1.16.
So which pick was better?
I was working off the theory that it couldn't be a first rounder. It didn't say greatest "first round pick of all time."Want a WR? Largent in the 4th.The QB's have been mentioned.
 
But who are we kidding: Rice is easily the best No. 16 pick ever and probably the best draft pick in league history.
He didn't qualify it as the best first rounder ever. Even still, I'd put Marino at 27 ahead of Rice at 16.
 
I like the list, with the few quibbles most of you have posted. The guy does overvalue SB wins, and is defintely prone to hyperbole - Rice is not the greatest draft pick ever, mainly because he was taken at 1.16.
So which pick was better?
I was working off the theory that it couldn't be a first rounder. It didn't say greatest "first round pick of all time."Want a WR? Largent in the 4th.The QB's have been mentioned.
Rice at 1.16 is a much better pick than Largent in the fourth. Largent was a good WR; Rice was the best to ever play the game (with the possible exception of Hutson). To get the best player ever at his position, and possibly at any position in terms of differentiation from his peers, in the middle of the first round is still better than getting a very good but unspectacular WR in the fourth round. The most TDs Largent ever scored was 12; the most yardage he ever had was 1287. Rice had 8 seasons with more TDs than Largent scored in his best season (max 22), and 7 seasons with more yardage than Largent had in his best season (max 1848). Joe Montana, you can argue. A reasonable candidate for best QB of all time in the fourth round. Brady, maybe in a few years. But Steve Largent? Maybe this is a topic for a poll, but if I were the Draft Fairy, and I told a GM that he could either get a guarantee of Jerry Rice's career with this first-round pick, or a guarantee of Steve Largent's career with his fourth-round pick, they'd take Rice every time.
 
SI.com did the same thing but their superior list includes pre-1970 draft picks as well.
Here are the differences and my opinion on whether or not SI's pick was better than the Yahoo article:5. **** Butkus over Barry Deion Sanders. Good call. :confused:
Barry was # 3 overall, not 5.
SI chose Butkus at #3 over Barry Sanders.SI chose Deion Sanders at #5.

Both choices are correct IMO.

Sorry I numbered it wrong, I fixed my original post.

 
CalBear said:
stevegamer said:
Despyzer said:
stevegamer said:
I like the list, with the few quibbles most of you have posted. The guy does overvalue SB wins, and is defintely prone to hyperbole - Rice is not the greatest draft pick ever, mainly because he was taken at 1.16.
So which pick was better?
I was working off the theory that it couldn't be a first rounder. It didn't say greatest "first round pick of all time."Want a WR? Largent in the 4th.The QB's have been mentioned.
Rice at 1.16 is a much better pick than Largent in the fourth. Largent was a good WR; Rice was the best to ever play the game (with the possible exception of Hutson). To get the best player ever at his position, and possibly at any position in terms of differentiation from his peers, in the middle of the first round is still better than getting a very good but unspectacular WR in the fourth round. The most TDs Largent ever scored was 12; the most yardage he ever had was 1287. Rice had 8 seasons with more TDs than Largent scored in his best season (max 22), and 7 seasons with more yardage than Largent had in his best season (max 1848). Joe Montana, you can argue. A reasonable candidate for best QB of all time in the fourth round. Brady, maybe in a few years. But Steve Largent? Maybe this is a topic for a poll, but if I were the Draft Fairy, and I told a GM that he could either get a guarantee of Jerry Rice's career with this first-round pick, or a guarantee of Steve Largent's career with his fourth-round pick, they'd take Rice every time.
You're really short-changing Largent.
 
CalBear said:
stevegamer said:
Despyzer said:
stevegamer said:
I like the list, with the few quibbles most of you have posted. The guy does overvalue SB wins, and is defintely prone to hyperbole - Rice is not the greatest draft pick ever, mainly because he was taken at 1.16.
So which pick was better?
I was working off the theory that it couldn't be a first rounder. It didn't say greatest "first round pick of all time."Want a WR? Largent in the 4th.The QB's have been mentioned.
Rice at 1.16 is a much better pick than Largent in the fourth. Largent was a good WR; Rice was the best to ever play the game (with the possible exception of Hutson). To get the best player ever at his position, and possibly at any position in terms of differentiation from his peers, in the middle of the first round is still better than getting a very good but unspectacular WR in the fourth round. The most TDs Largent ever scored was 12; the most yardage he ever had was 1287. Rice had 8 seasons with more TDs than Largent scored in his best season (max 22), and 7 seasons with more yardage than Largent had in his best season (max 1848). Joe Montana, you can argue. A reasonable candidate for best QB of all time in the fourth round. Brady, maybe in a few years. But Steve Largent? Maybe this is a topic for a poll, but if I were the Draft Fairy, and I told a GM that he could either get a guarantee of Jerry Rice's career with this first-round pick, or a guarantee of Steve Largent's career with his fourth-round pick, they'd take Rice every time.
You're really short-changing Largent.
I'm tempted to agree... I'm not sure if CalBear's overall point is wrong, but Largent was much better than "a good WR". He is a top 10 WR of all time.
 
You're really short-changing Largent.
I like Largent a lot, I just don't think he's anywhere near Rice's class. Largent was top-5 in receiving yards 4 times (#1 twice), top-5 in receiving TDs 6 times (never #1). Rice was top-5 in receiving yards 11 times (#1 six times), and top-5 in receiving TDs 11 times (#1 six times). Those are astonishing numbers, and an astonishing difference.
 
You're really short-changing Largent.
I like Largent a lot, I just don't think he's anywhere near Rice's class. Largent was top-5 in receiving yards 4 times (#1 twice), top-5 in receiving TDs 6 times (never #1). Rice was top-5 in receiving yards 11 times (#1 six times), and top-5 in receiving TDs 11 times (#1 six times). Those are astonishing numbers, and an astonishing difference.
I'd have to agree. Largent was great for his time. Rice was the best of all time. He was truly that much better.
 
You're really short-changing Largent.
I like Largent a lot, I just don't think he's anywhere near Rice's class. Largent was top-5 in receiving yards 4 times (#1 twice), top-5 in receiving TDs 6 times (never #1). Rice was top-5 in receiving yards 11 times (#1 six times), and top-5 in receiving TDs 11 times (#1 six times). Those are astonishing numbers, and an astonishing difference.
I understand all that. I guess my point was, if you're going to refer to Largent as "good" the implication is that are very few WRs that you would characterize as "great". It is semantics, but that is what immediately struck me about your post.
 
You're really short-changing Largent.
I like Largent a lot, I just don't think he's anywhere near Rice's class. Largent was top-5 in receiving yards 4 times (#1 twice), top-5 in receiving TDs 6 times (never #1). Rice was top-5 in receiving yards 11 times (#1 six times), and top-5 in receiving TDs 11 times (#1 six times). Those are astonishing numbers, and an astonishing difference.
He also played with Montana and YOung. Surely you'd agree that having two of the greatest QBs ever throw you the ball greatly helps your stats, no?
 
You're really short-changing Largent.
I like Largent a lot, I just don't think he's anywhere near Rice's class. Largent was top-5 in receiving yards 4 times (#1 twice), top-5 in receiving TDs 6 times (never #1). Rice was top-5 in receiving yards 11 times (#1 six times), and top-5 in receiving TDs 11 times (#1 six times). Those are astonishing numbers, and an astonishing difference.
He also played with Montana and YOung. Surely you'd agree that having two of the greatest QBs ever throw you the ball greatly helps your stats, no?
And played for Walsh. Further support of this point. It is obvious that Rice played in a far better situation than Largent, but all sports careers are inherently influenced by situation, so it's not like Rice should be penalized for it. I'm sure Rice would have been great regardless due to his talent and work ethic.
 
TheLastDispatch said:
renesauz said:
Donnybrook said:
How did Randy Moss not make the list?
a couple great seasons followed by an unprecedented drop into has-been obscurity...and he should make ANY list of this type? I don't think so.
:lmao:
So your defination of "a couple" is 6 years? Because over the first 6 of his career, Moss AVERAGED 88 catches, 1400 yards and 13 TDs. He was, by far for those 6 years, the most dominant player at his position.A lot of HoFer would love to have had a "couple" years like that.
 
TheLastDispatch said:
renesauz said:
Donnybrook said:
How did Randy Moss not make the list?
a couple great seasons followed by an unprecedented drop into has-been obscurity...and he should make ANY list of this type? I don't think so.
:shrug:
So your defination of "a couple" is 6 years? Because over the first 6 of his career, Moss AVERAGED 88 catches, 1400 yards and 13 TDs. He was, by far for those 6 years, the most dominant player at his position.A lot of HoFer would love to have had a "couple" years like that.
:shrug: Haters sure can be funny. Moss had eclipsed Swann's career numbers after only 4 seasons in the league. I'm a Steelers fan and appreciate all that Swann did for the Steelers. Moss is and was light years better.
 
TheLastDispatch said:
renesauz said:
Donnybrook said:
How did Randy Moss not make the list?
a couple great seasons followed by an unprecedented drop into has-been obscurity...and he should make ANY list of this type? I don't think so.
:confused:
So your defination of "a couple" is 6 years? Because over the first 6 of his career, Moss AVERAGED 88 catches, 1400 yards and 13 TDs. He was, by far for those 6 years, the most dominant player at his position.A lot of HoFer would love to have had a "couple" years like that.
:confused: Haters sure can be funny. Moss had eclipsed Swann's career numbers after only 4 seasons in the league. I'm a Steelers fan and appreciate all that Swann did for the Steelers. Moss is and was light years better.
He was and always has been a cancer. He's the only player I can think of that has a worse attitude than Owens. Leaving a game early? Mooning fans? Come on. Physically talented? Absolutely. Outstanding overall player, both on the field and off? Definitely not. Combine his horrible attitude with, as renesauz said, an unprecedented drop into obscurity for what is now 1/3 of his career and I don't think it's hard to argue he shouldn't be on this list. How many teams want him right now? Outside of maybe Green Bay, Oakland can't even pay someone to take him.ETA: Note I didn't say I think Swann is better than Moss or that Swann is the way to go here. I only agreed with Renesauz that leaving Moss off this list isn't a huge oversight.
 
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You're really short-changing Largent.
I like Largent a lot, I just don't think he's anywhere near Rice's class. Largent was top-5 in receiving yards 4 times (#1 twice), top-5 in receiving TDs 6 times (never #1). Rice was top-5 in receiving yards 11 times (#1 six times), and top-5 in receiving TDs 11 times (#1 six times). Those are astonishing numbers, and an astonishing difference.
He also played with Montana and YOung. Surely you'd agree that having two of the greatest QBs ever throw you the ball greatly helps your stats, no?
There have been exactly one wide receiver that has ever recorded a catch at age 40. Every single other receiver in NFL history either retired, was injured, could not make a roster, or is still active, other than Jerry Rice. At an age where most receivers' skills have diminished to a sub-NFL level, and even the greatest receivers of all times could not even put on a uniform, Jerry Rice had 1,211 yards. And he did so with Rich Gannon, not Joe Montana or Steve Young. Considering a Jerry Rice that was 10 years past his prime was able to record 1,211 yards, I don't think a 30 year old Jerry Rice was really a product of much else other than being unbelievable.

 
I agree with Rice being the best pick at his spot, and the best #1 pick.

Calbear's shortchanging of Largent is so bad, I'm forced to rethink my opinon of him as a poster.

Let's put this in perspective:

Guys who've led ALL receivers in history in ALL major categories (yards, catches, TD's) when they retired, as far as I know:

Hutson

Largent

Rice

There's your list. If Largent ain't great, then there are exactly 2 great WR/SE's ever - and no current player is great, since if dominating the career leaderboards in spots 1, 1, and 1 isn't enough - I have no idea what is.

Rice's career started at the time the offensive explosion was starting. It doesn't mean he's not great, it just mean that the numbers of everyon who played a significant chunk of their career pre-1983 has numbers that are from a different style.

 
All I'm saying is that you offered a GM this trade:

4.25 and Jerry Rice's career

for

1.16 and Steve Largent's career

every GM except perhaps Matt Millen would want to be on the side getting Jerry Rice. It's really not close.

Now, if the deal were:

3.26 and Jerry Rice's career

for

1.16 and Joe Montana's career

I think that's a much harder sell. I'd probably take the Montana side on that one, although it's arguable.

 
All I'm saying is that you offered a GM this trade:

4.25 and Jerry Rice's career

for

1.16 and Steve Largent's career

every GM except perhaps Matt Millen would want to be on the side getting Jerry Rice. It's really not close.

Now, if the deal were:

3.26 and Jerry Rice's career

for

1.16 and Joe Montana's career

I think that's a much harder sell. I'd probably take the Montana side on that one, although it's arguable.
Without a definition of what Joe Montana's career is, the answer is unclear. I think the best answer to what a career is, would have you taking Jerry Rice and a 3.26 over Montana and a 1.16. Rice was that good.(For example, would you rather have Dan Marino's career or Troy Brown's career? I think any GM would rather have Troy Brown's career, by one definition. By another, any GM would rather have Dan Marino's career.)

 
Rice's career started at the time the offensive explosion was starting. It doesn't mean he's not great, it just mean that the numbers of everyon who played a significant chunk of their career pre-1983 has numbers that are from a different style.
I did very little comparison of raw numbers between Rice and Largent; I was comparing their records relative to their peers. Largent did well relative to his peers, but he's nowhere close to Rice in terms of dominating the league. Largent is a legit Hall of Famer, I don't mean to denigrate him, but the difference between Rice and Largent is larger than the difference between Montana and, say, Warren Moon.I'm not a big proponent of the "he had x record at the time he retired" as a indicator of overall greatness. How long did Largent hold the records? Lofton passed him in yardage within 2 years, Art Monk passed him in receptions within 2 years, and Jerry Rice scored his 100th TD within 3 years after Largent retired. I think Largent is better than either Lofton or Monk, which just points out that career numbers can be compiled.

 
There's your list. If Largent ain't great, then there are exactly 2 great WR/SE's ever - and no current player is great, since if dominating the career leaderboards in spots 1, 1, and 1 isn't enough - I have no idea what is.
Don Maynard ranked 1st, 1st and 2nd when he retired. Does that make him the 4th best receiver ever?
 
an unprecedented drop into obscurity for what is now 1/3 of his career and I don't think it's hard to argue he shouldn't be on this list.
This is the drop to obscurity you are talking about:
Code:
Rushing		 |		Receiving		|+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+| Year  TM |   G |   Att  Yards	Y/A   TD |   Rec  Yards   Y/R   TD |+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+| 2004 min |  13 |	 0	  0	0.0	0 |	49	767  15.7   13 || 2005 oak |  16 |	 0	  0	0.0	0 |	60   1005  16.8	8 || 2006 oak |  13 |	 0	  0	0.0	0 |	42	553  13.2	3 |+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
Here are Swann's best seasons ever:
Code:
+--------------------------+-------------------------+				 |		  Rushing		 |		Receiving		|+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+| Year  TM |   G |   Att  Yards	Y/A   TD |   Rec  Yards   Y/R   TD |+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+| 1975 pit |  14 |	 3	 13	4.3	0 |	49	781  15.9   11 || 1978 pit |  16 |	 1	  7	7.0	0 |	61	880  14.4   11 |
 
an unprecedented drop into obscurity for what is now 1/3 of his career and I don't think it's hard to argue he shouldn't be on this list.
This is the drop to obscurity you are talking about:
Rushing | Receiving |+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+| Year TM | G | Att Yards Y/A TD | Rec Yards Y/R TD |+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+| 2004 min | 13 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 49 767 15.7 13 || 2005 oak | 16 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 60 1005 16.8 8 || 2006 oak | 13 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 42 553 13.2 3 |+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+Here are Swann's best seasons ever:
Code:
+--------------------------+-------------------------+				 |		  Rushing		 |		Receiving		|+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+| Year  TM |   G |   Att  Yards	Y/A   TD |   Rec  Yards   Y/R   TD |+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+| 1975 pit |  14 |	 3	 13	4.3	0 |	49	781  15.9   11 || 1978 pit |  16 |	 1	  7	7.0	0 |	61	880  14.4   11 |
ETA: Note I didn't say I think Swann is better than Moss or that Swann is the way to go here. I only agreed with Renesauz that leaving Moss off this list isn't a huge oversight.
 

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