Best Rookie RB out of these 4 (1 Viewer)

[theredoz]

Who will have the best NFL career Ray Rice, Kevin Smith, Jamal Charles, Forte

 

[jwb]

Crapshoot. But I like Rice the best.

 

[FUBAR]

OOMA: Rice

 

[TheFanatic]

I'll go Rice as well, but I opportunity and situation will have a huge impact so let's revisit this in 3 weeks....

 

[EBF]

They all have their charms, but Ray is the safest bet to succeed IMO.

Smith has weak combine numbers.

Charles has a slight frame and a bad vertical leap.

Forte is solid, but he's built tall and his combine numbers don't quite compare to Rice's.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

Rice

 

[hitman2]

I agree Rice (because I drafted him at 1.04 not knowing his NFL team).

This would have been a more interesting question with Felix Jones in the mix.

 

[Chaos Commish]

I'm going with Forte here, but just barely and to be different.

I like his blocking and pass receiving quite a bit more than Rice's.

Forte has really grown on me the more I've watched and read. I think he's done the same for a bunch of NFL teams too. I won't be surprised if he is the 4th or 6th back chosen behind the threesome and maybe Chris Johnson or Felix Jones. This isn't criticism of Rice or Charles. I think they can both be excellent NFL backs, and I agree Rice is the safest.

 

[happy_donut]

I also agree Rice.

This would have been a more interesting question with Felix Jones in the mix.

I'd also add Chris Johnson to the mix.

 

[BuckeyeArt]

Forte is solid, but he's built tall and his combine numbers don't quite compare to Rice's.

Rice and Forte's numbers were nearly identical. Forte: 4.44 / 23 reps / 33 vert / 9'10" broad. Rice: 4.42 / 23 reps / 31.5 vert / 9'11" broad.

 

[EBF]

Forte is solid, but he's built tall and his combine numbers don't quite compare to Rice's.

Rice and Forte's numbers were nearly identical. Forte: 4.44 / 23 reps / 33 vert / 9'10" broad. Rice: 4.42 / 23 reps / 31.5 vert / 9'11" broad.

Rice jumped 39.5" in the vert at his pro day and did 10'1" in the broad jump. Though their marks in the broad jump look similar, Rice is roughly five inches shorter than Forte with considerably shorter legs. The fact that he was able to achieve the same broad jump despite this natural disadvantage indicates that he has a little more pop in his legs (taller players tend to do better in the broad jump on average).

 

[switz]

This would have been a more interesting question with Felix Jones in the mix.

Jones is clearly at least a tier above these RBs.

 

[EBF]

This would have been a more interesting question with Felix Jones in the mix.

Jones is clearly at least a tier above these RBs.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. You can make a pretty strong case for Rice over Jones as an FF prospect. Jones has a little more playing speed, but Rice is thicker and a lot stronger. I like him than Felix more at this point. It will be interesting to see who the 4th RB drafted is. A lot of people assume that it will be Felix Jones, but I think Jamaal Charles or Chris Johnson could just as easily claim that spot. Those guys all have similar strengths and weaknesses and are locked in a dog fight for draft dollars.

 

[Brutis]

Who will have the best NFL career Ray Rice, Kevin Smith, Jamal Charles, Forte

Tashard Choice.

 

[switz]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. You can make a pretty strong case for Rice over Jones as an FF prospect. Jones has a little more playing speed, but Rice is thicker and a lot stronger. I like him than Felix more at this point.

Thicker?Jones - 5'10" 210Lbs. (I recently read he was 213) Pic (strong legs)

Rice - 5'9" 205Lbs. Pic (great biceps, thinner legs)

Hard to say Rice is thicker... especially when you look at Jones legs versus Rice's legs...

I know his upper body strength appears questionable, based on his combine bench, even though his personal workout bench was better. But his stiff arm is excellent, his playing strength appears good.

 

[massraider]

Jamaal Charles. I think teams will look for ways to get him the rock.

I am not a believer in Ray Rice. I don't think he plays that fast, and I think his vision is average at best.

 

[EBF]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. You can make a pretty strong case for Rice over Jones as an FF prospect. Jones has a little more playing speed, but Rice is thicker and a lot stronger. I like him than Felix more at this point.

Thicker?Jones - 5'10" 210Lbs. (I recently read he was 213)

Rice - 5'9" 205Lbs.

Hard to say Rice is thicker... especially when you look at Jones legs versus Rice's legs...

I know his upper body strength appears questionable, based on his combine bench, even though his personal workout bench was better. But his stiff arm is excellent, his playing strength appears good.

These are the official numbers from the combine:Felix Jones -- 5'10" 207 -- BMI -- 29.7

Ray Rice -- 5'8" 199 -- BMI -- 30.3

It's not a huge difference. It's not as much as I thought, but I would still say Rice is thicker and he runs stronger. Most scouting reports on these two focus on Felix's elusiveness and Ray's power. Here are some quotes from NFL.com's prospect profiles:

Felix Jones

"Plays with good toughness and competitiveness, as he will lower his head and square his shoulders to drive through after contact...Not really a punishing runner, but easily bounces off tackles and gives second effort when the rush lane is clogged..."

"...Has good leg drive, but will make bigger gains when trying to avoid, as he is generally brought down on the initial hit when operating in a crowd...He had just 22 runs on which the opposition needed more than one defender to take him down on 133 attempts in 2007...Elusive runner who does a good job of squaring up before initial contact, but must improve his body lean, as he does not do a good job of falling forward..."

"Compares To: CARNELL WILLIAMS-Tampa Bay...Both are best taking the ball outside. Jones is a water bug on the field, excelling at avoiding defenders when he clears the line of scrimmage. He has a Devin Hester-type of burst as a kickoff returner and has worked well within the two-back system. Team him up with a powerful inside runner and you will get better value. We doubt his frame can handle pounding associated with touching the ball 30 times a game at the next level, especially if he doesn't learn how to run at a lower pad level between the tackles."

Ray Rice

"Lacks ideal size (more than an inch shorter than he was listed at Rutgers), but he is a powerful runner with good body lean and the leg strength to break arm tackles..."

"Works hard for extra yardage and is a tough runner who won't back down (might be encouraged to run out of bounds to protect his body)..."

"Because of his balance and low center of gravity, defenders have problems getting him down upon initial contact...Has a sharp, short burst and uses his leg drive properly to cut upfield before getting to the corner...Hits the crease hard and has the vision to work his way through traffic...Aggressive inside runner with the weaving ability to escape from the pile, doing a nice job of maintaining his pad level for leverage after locating the rush lane...Rare to see him run "tall" or leave the ball exposed...Despite lacking ideal bulk, he is efficient slamming the ball up the middle of the line, as he maintains balance running through the pile and displays impressive power when making initial contact...His leg drive constantly keeps him moving forward..."

My impression from watching the two play is that Rice is more of an inside runner and Jones is more of a slashing change of pace type. Jones is big enough to potentially grow into a featured role, but I definitely would've liked to have seen more power from him in college.

 

[az_prof]

Forte is solid, but he's built tall and his combine numbers don't quite compare to Rice's.

Rice and Forte's numbers were nearly identical. Forte: 4.44 / 23 reps / 33 vert / 9'10" broad. Rice: 4.42 / 23 reps / 31.5 vert / 9'11" broad.

Rice jumped 39.5" in the vert at his pro day and did 10'1" in the broad jump. Though their marks in the broad jump look similar, Rice is roughly five inches shorter than Forte with considerably shorter legs. The fact that he was able to achieve the same broad jump despite this natural disadvantage indicates that he has a little more pop in his legs (taller players tend to do better in the broad jump on average).

I have a couple of questions:1) how do you evaluate Pro Day numbers in comparison to Combine? Are they equally valid and trustworthy? COmbine everyone is being measured by the same staff (neutral I assume) under the same conditions so it would seem more reliable, but I really don't know.2) how in god's name can a guy increase his jump by eight inches???? I can see a couple of inches difference but eight inches is huge change. Running outside I could see that the wind might make a big difference or the type of track; but jumping????

 

[Almas_4th_Child]

This would have been a more interesting question with Felix Jones in the mix.

Jones is clearly at least a tier above these RBs.

In your eyes and in McFaddens eyes apparently. I doubt he has much impact as a RB at the next level. I like all four of those RB's as better backs at the next level over Felix....now as a return man....thats a different story.

 

[EBF]

Forte is solid, but he's built tall and his combine numbers don't quite compare to Rice's.

Rice and Forte's numbers were nearly identical. Forte: 4.44 / 23 reps / 33 vert / 9'10" broad. Rice: 4.42 / 23 reps / 31.5 vert / 9'11" broad.

Rice jumped 39.5" in the vert at his pro day and did 10'1" in the broad jump. Though their marks in the broad jump look similar, Rice is roughly five inches shorter than Forte with considerably shorter legs. The fact that he was able to achieve the same broad jump despite this natural disadvantage indicates that he has a little more pop in his legs (taller players tend to do better in the broad jump on average).

I have a couple of questions:1) how do you evaluate Pro Day numbers in comparison to Combine? Are they equally valid and trustworthy? COmbine everyone is being measured by the same staff (neutral I assume) under the same conditions so it would seem more reliable, but I really don't know.2) how in god's name can a guy increase his jump by eight inches???? I can see a couple of inches difference but eight inches is huge change. Running outside I could see that the wind might make a big difference or the type of track; but jumping????

1. That's a good question. There's no easy answer. I would normally lean towards the numbers compiled on a level playing field. So I think it's probably best to use the combine numbers in most years. However...2. The vertical jumps were screwed up at the combine this year. Check the pro day results for the top RB prospects and you should notice that most of them did roughly 1.5-3 inches better than they did at the combine. So that partially explains Rice's increase. It's still troublesome that he had such a low mark at the combine. It makes me think they might have screwed up his results. This is my own bias shining through, but I find it very hard to believe that his combine mark is accurate. The pro day number more closely reflects what I expected from him, so I'm inclined to think it's the more accurate of his two results.

 

[switz]

My impression from watching the two play is that Rice is more of an inside runner and Jones is more of a slashing change of pace type. Jones is big enough to potentially grow into a featured role, but I definitely would've liked to have seen more power from him in college.

That's fair enough I agree he didn't often try to run over people in college.

 

[switz]

This would have been a more interesting question with Felix Jones in the mix.

Jones is clearly at least a tier above these RBs.

In your eyes and in McFaddens eyes apparently. I doubt he has much impact as a RB at the next level. I like all four of those RB's as better backs at the next level over Felix....now as a return man....thats a different story.

We'll see. Jones is more well rounded than all 4 of these RBs, each of whom have obvious weaknesses with their games. The questions on Jones have to do with him splitting time, and his weak bench press. That's it.

 

[az_prof]

How about size? Is anyone else worried about Rice and Jones' size and whether they can be featured NFL backs? It seems like 205 is sort of the cutoff--there are exceptions, but if a guy is less than 205 and even more so less than 200, the odds of him being a featured NFL back are pretty thin.

I like the fact that Forte is 217 and also put up a good 40 time (I don't know what his 10 yard time is).

 

[RUSF18]

2) how in god's name can a guy increase his jump by eight inches???? I can see a couple of inches difference but eight inches is huge change. Running outside I could see that the wind might make a big difference or the type of track; but jumping????

There was a post on here shortly after the combine that said (paraphrasing so if I'm not 100% accurate, please correct me) that players could be taught how to "cheat" the initial measurement by rolling their shoulders back as they reached. So their arms would appear much shorter than they actually were once fully stretched out, which would significantly increase the vertical measurement.

 

[Chaos Commish]

This would have been a more interesting question with Felix Jones in the mix.

Jones is clearly at least a tier above these RBs.

In your eyes and in McFaddens eyes apparently. I doubt he has much impact as a RB at the next level. I like all four of those RB's as better backs at the next level over Felix....now as a return man....thats a different story.

We'll see. Jones is more well rounded than all 4 of these RBs, each of whom have obvious weaknesses with their games. The questions on Jones have to do with him splitting time, and his weak bench press. That's it.

What's the obvious weakness with Forte?

 

[EBF]

How about size? Is anyone else worried about Rice and Jones' size and whether they can be featured NFL backs? It seems like 205 is sort of the cutoff--there are exceptions, but if a guy is less than 205 and even more so less than 200, the odds of him being a featured NFL back are pretty thin. I like the fact that Forte is 217 and also put up a good 40 time (I don't know what his 10 yard time is).

Size is the only issue with Ray Rice. If he was 5'10" and 220 then he'd be a top 25 pick. Jones has some room to grow, but he'll never be Jonathan Stewart. The reason guys like this fall out of the top 30 is because they don't have the perfect combination of size/speed/production. If they did, they wouldn't be sleepers. They'd be Rashard Mendenhall and Jonathan Stewart.

 

[Chaos Commish]

How about size? Is anyone else worried about Rice and Jones' size and whether they can be featured NFL backs? It seems like 205 is sort of the cutoff--there are exceptions, but if a guy is less than 205 and even more so less than 200, the odds of him being a featured NFL back are pretty thin. I like the fact that Forte is 217 and also put up a good 40 time (I don't know what his 10 yard time is).

I'm not one to worry about size and I don't think either of these two qualify as worries for those who usually do. Rice is really put together for his height. Felix hasn't maxed out his frame at all, and can probably play at 215 without losing a step.

 

[az_prof]

How about size? Is anyone else worried about Rice and Jones' size and whether they can be featured NFL backs? It seems like 205 is sort of the cutoff--there are exceptions, but if a guy is less than 205 and even more so less than 200, the odds of him being a featured NFL back are pretty thin. I like the fact that Forte is 217 and also put up a good 40 time (I don't know what his 10 yard time is).

Size is the only issue with Ray Rice. If he was 5'10" and 220 then he'd be a top 25 pick. Jones has some room to grow, but he'll never be Jonathan Stewart. The reason guys like this fall out of the top 30 is because they don't have the perfect combination of size/speed/production. If they did, they wouldn't be sleepers. They'd be Rashard Mendenhall and Jonathan Stewart.

I understand that but as someone else asked above, what is Forte's weakness? He has good size and his measurables are good if not great; his college performance is good.

 

[EBF]

How about size? Is anyone else worried about Rice and Jones' size and whether they can be featured NFL backs? It seems like 205 is sort of the cutoff--there are exceptions, but if a guy is less than 205 and even more so less than 200, the odds of him being a featured NFL back are pretty thin. I like the fact that Forte is 217 and also put up a good 40 time (I don't know what his 10 yard time is).

Size is the only issue with Ray Rice. If he was 5'10" and 220 then he'd be a top 25 pick. Jones has some room to grow, but he'll never be Jonathan Stewart. The reason guys like this fall out of the top 30 is because they don't have the perfect combination of size/speed/production. If they did, they wouldn't be sleepers. They'd be Rashard Mendenhall and Jonathan Stewart.

I understand that by as someone else asked above, what is Forte's weakness? He has good size and his measurables are good if not great; his college performance is good.

He's a good player. Definitely capable of surprising and definitely worth a shot in rookie drafts. His main weakness is that he's built tall with long legs, which will likely lead to injury problems down the road. He's also a notch below the elite in terms of overall talent. He has good speed and very good feet for a taller back, but he lacks the spectacular qualities of a guy like Peterson or Tomlinson. Forte is best viewed as a fringe starter talent who has the potential to surprise if he gets an opportunity.

 

[switz]

What's the obvious weakness with Forte?

Forte lacks quickness and decisiveness. While his top end speed is decent, he doesn't explode out of the blocks, and is not quick enough to run outside. While his combine speed was impressive, it was not evident in game film. He is sorely inexperienced, and is extremely raw as a blocker.But the obvious weakness is his lack of quickness.

 

[madd futher]

No expert at evaluating by any means, but I'd rank em in this order:

1a & 1b: Smith and Rice I like em both and believe both will be solid NFL pros, outside chance to be future studs; but flip a coin between them.

3. Jones - not sold on him making the tough yards.

4. Forte - I predict journeyman to solid starter.

Charles, Johnson and Choice are in a distinctly different tier. Dark horses.

 

[kremenull]

Best all-around NFL prospect is Forte. I like his size, strength, and no-nonsense running style. Compares favorably to Ryan Grant currently, and Neal Anderson from the past.

Rice is not that much of a safe bet to me, worried about college overuse and also smaller frame.

Most upside to me, who could potentially elevate to Top 3 in this entire class is Jamaal Charles. If he packs on 15 lbs of muscle, which I believe will not be that difficult given his frame, if his work ethic is up to it, that is, this guy could really sparkle in a year or so......

Picking at 1.04 in one of my dynasties, I'll have a very interesting, and difficult choice to make on this one......

 

[Maroney=Speed]

They all have their charms, but Ray is the safest bet to succeed IMO. Smith has weak combine numbers. Charles has a slight frame and a bad vertical leap. Forte is solid, but he's built tall and his combine numbers don't quite compare to Rice's.

I have to call you out on this. You only spoke of Combine numbers. Nothing about on field or how they looked on tape. My question to you is Combine numbers 100% in how you rate a player? Or 50%? What is the % you put on the Combine? Of course this means you should be high on McFadden beacuse He did very good at the Combine, but I'm sure you will say He didn't. Thanks, I'll wait to see what you have to say.

 

[rufan]

Jamaal Charles. I think teams will look for ways to get him the rock.I am not a believer in Ray Rice. I don't think he plays that fast, and I think his vision is average at best.

Hehe...that's funny. One of Rice's strongest assets is his vision.

 

[BuckeyeArt]

Forte is solid, but he's built tall and his combine numbers don't quite compare to Rice's.

Rice and Forte's numbers were nearly identical. Forte: 4.44 / 23 reps / 33 vert / 9'10" broad. Rice: 4.42 / 23 reps / 31.5 vert / 9'11" broad.

Rice jumped 39.5" in the vert at his pro day and did 10'1" in the broad jump. Though their marks in the broad jump look similar, Rice is roughly five inches shorter than Forte with considerably shorter legs. The fact that he was able to achieve the same broad jump despite this natural disadvantage indicates that he has a little more pop in his legs (taller players tend to do better in the broad jump on average).

I have a couple of questions:1) how do you evaluate Pro Day numbers in comparison to Combine? Are they equally valid and trustworthy? COmbine everyone is being measured by the same staff (neutral I assume) under the same conditions so it would seem more reliable, but I really don't know.2) how in god's name can a guy increase his jump by eight inches???? I can see a couple of inches difference but eight inches is huge change. Running outside I could see that the wind might make a big difference or the type of track; but jumping????

1. That's a good question. There's no easy answer. I would normally lean towards the numbers compiled on a level playing field. So I think it's probably best to use the combine numbers in most years. However...2. The vertical jumps were screwed up at the combine this year. Check the pro day results for the top RB prospects and you should notice that most of them did roughly 1.5-3 inches better than they did at the combine. So that partially explains Rice's increase. It's still troublesome that he had such a low mark at the combine. It makes me think they might have screwed up his results. This is my own bias shining through, but I find it very hard to believe that his combine mark is accurate. The pro day number more closely reflects what I expected from him, so I'm inclined to think it's the more accurate of his two results.

I'm surprised at your lack of objectivity. It seems like you are looking for things to boost Rice. Even though the combine conducted the vertical jump differently than in the past, it is still better to compare two players' numbers taken from the same test. Comparing Rice's vertical at his pro day, where you have no consistent standard, to Forte's vertical at the combine, where you know the standards were likely more strict, seems to contain a little bias. Writing off a poor jump at the combine to "screwing up his results" seems like you ignoring something you don't want to see.I like Rice as well but it would be hard for me to conclude that he's any more athletic than Forte based upon his pro day numbers, especially since Forte didn't retake the tests at his pro day.

 

[EBF]

They all have their charms, but Ray is the safest bet to succeed IMO. Smith has weak combine numbers. Charles has a slight frame and a bad vertical leap. Forte is solid, but he's built tall and his combine numbers don't quite compare to Rice's.

I have to call you out on this. You only spoke of Combine numbers. Nothing about on field or how they looked on tape. My question to you is Combine numbers 100% in how you rate a player? Or 50%? What is the % you put on the Combine? Of course this means you should be high on McFadden beacuse He did very good at the Combine, but I'm sure you will say He didn't. Thanks, I'll wait to see what you have to say.

The eyeball test is the most important factor. I would say Rice and Charles score the highest on that metric. I've liked Rice since the first time I watched him play. He runs low, has fluid hips, adequate burst, and good power. He looks and runs like an NFL RB should. The only issue with him is size. He has good thickness, but he's short. That keeps his weight down to a less than ideal level. It could limit his role in the NFL. He certainly has the talent to be effective though. There's no doubt in my mind about that. Charles is the most dynamic and explosive of the bunch. He makes the most "wow" type plays with his shiftiness and his burst of speed. He has a big upside. My main concern with him is a skinny frame that might not be suited for the rigors of 300 carries. If he was a little bit heavier then he would be a legit top 25 prospect. As it stands now he will probably be selected in the 25-45 range. Forte gets the third best marks on the eyeball test. Go back and do a search and you'll see that I was hyping him before his public profile really blew up, so I'm far from a hater. He has good overall athletic ability and football skills. What I like best about him is his quick stutter step and his shiftiness. He can be effective at the next level. However, his frame is not as good as Rice's. Forte is heavier, but he's built a lot taller with skinny legs that will be injury magnets in the NFL. Also, his overall athleticism is solid but unspectacular. He is like a poor man's ADP. Smith is an odd duck. I watched his whole bowl game this past season and came away pretty unimpressed. At times I'm intrigued by his slashing running style and his gliding stride in the open field. At other times I think he looks awkward running the football. His combine was a notch below the other players on this list. I still think he's an interesting prospect worth a shot in your rookie draft. He has the bulk to be a starter and the more you watch him run, the more you like him. But I'd probably rank him at the bottom of this quartet as of today.

 

[EBF]

I'm surprised at your lack of objectivity. It seems like you are looking for things to boost Rice. Even though the combine conducted the vertical jump differently than in the past, it is still better to compare two players' numbers taken from the same test. Comparing Rice's vertical at his pro day, where you have no consistent standard, to Forte's vertical at the combine, where you know the standards were likely more strict, seems to contain a little bias. Writing off a poor jump at the combine to "screwing up his results" seems like you ignoring something you don't want to see.

I see your point. If you want to take the combine number as the accurate number then that's your choice. I wouldn't blame you since that's the mark that was registered on a level playing field. However, it wasn't just Rice's jump that was screwed up. Whoever was doing the vertical measurements at the combine this year messed something up because the marks were low across the board. Nearly every RB prospect tested in Indy jumped 1.5-5 inches better at his pro day. To me this indicates that all of the numbers from Indy are suspect.

 

[massraider]

Jamaal Charles. I think teams will look for ways to get him the rock.I am not a believer in Ray Rice. I don't think he plays that fast, and I think his vision is average at best.

Hehe...that's funny. One of Rice's strongest assets is his vision.

Then I think he's in bigger trouble than I thought.

 

[Almas_4th_Child]

What's the obvious weakness with Forte?

Forte lacks quickness and decisiveness. While his top end speed is decent, he doesn't explode out of the blocks, and is not quick enough to run outside. While his combine speed was impressive, it was not evident in game film. He is sorely inexperienced, and is extremely raw as a blocker.But the obvious weakness is his lack of quickness.

Combine NumbersFelix Jones 5'10 1/8 207....40 yard= 4.48 225 reps=8 Vertical=33.5 inches Short Shuttle = 4.19Matt Forte 6'1 3/8 217.....40 yard= 4.47 225 reps=23 Vert =33 inches Short Shuttle = 4.23During Pro Days....Jones increased his bench to 13 reps.Add to the fact that some on here think that Jones could add weight...I think Forte could add more with such a bigger frame.So if Forte lacks quickness...shouldn't Jones?

 

[massraider]

What's the obvious weakness with Forte?

Forte lacks quickness and decisiveness. While his top end speed is decent, he doesn't explode out of the blocks, and is not quick enough to run outside. While his combine speed was impressive, it was not evident in game film. He is sorely inexperienced, and is extremely raw as a blocker.But the obvious weakness is his lack of quickness.

Combine NumbersFelix Jones 5'10 1/8 207....40 yard= 4.48 225 reps=8 Vertical=33.5 inches Short Shuttle = 4.19Matt Forte 6'1 3/8 217.....40 yard= 4.47 225 reps=23 Vert =33 inches Short Shuttle = 4.23During Pro Days....Jones increased his bench to 13 reps.Add to the fact that some on here think that Jones could add weight...I think Forte could add more with such a bigger frame.So if Forte lacks quickness...shouldn't Jones?

I like Forte a lot, but watching the games, he's not even on the same page with Felix, as far as quickness and speed. Forte seems to have exceptional vision and running skills, I really thought he showed great instincts when I saw him, but he's not a home run hitter. I was surprised he ran that well at the Combine.They may have ran the same speed at the Combine, but Forte isn't as fast as Felix, not on the field anyway.

 

[kremenull]

What's the obvious weakness with Forte?

Forte lacks quickness and decisiveness. While his top end speed is decent, he doesn't explode out of the blocks, and is not quick enough to run outside. While his combine speed was impressive, it was not evident in game film. He is sorely inexperienced, and is extremely raw as a blocker.But the obvious weakness is his lack of quickness.

Combine NumbersFelix Jones 5'10 1/8 207....40 yard= 4.48 225 reps=8 Vertical=33.5 inches Short Shuttle = 4.19Matt Forte 6'1 3/8 217.....40 yard= 4.47 225 reps=23 Vert =33 inches Short Shuttle = 4.23During Pro Days....Jones increased his bench to 13 reps.Add to the fact that some on here think that Jones could add weight...I think Forte could add more with such a bigger frame.So if Forte lacks quickness...shouldn't Jones?

I like Forte a lot, but watching the games, he's not even on the same page with Felix, as far as quickness and speed. Forte seems to have exceptional vision and running skills, I really thought he showed great instincts when I saw him, but he's not a home run hitter. I was surprised he ran that well at the Combine.They may have ran the same speed at the Combine, but Forte isn't as fast as Felix, not on the field anyway.

:( Agreed! Most people look at comparable 40 times and think that guys are equal in speed and explosion. Not nearly the case. Straight-line 40 speed is totally different than running with the 'rock' in a football game, where cutting, stop-and-starts, and lateral agility, all show off the type of quickness/explosion (or suddenness, if you will) that a guy possesses, or lacks. And Felix is top-notch in suddenness/explosion where Forte is more of a straight line runner. That said, I would not be at all surprised if Forte has a better career than Felix. Think Rudy Johnson vs J.Norwood (or Tatum Bell). Not saying that Felix will not be better than these guys, but it is possible that he ends up close to their level in the end.

 

[theredoz]

Is Jamal Charles the next T.Bell?

 

[EBF]

Is Jamal Charles the next T.Bell?

He's a tough guy to peg. One of the more impressive athletes in the RB crop, but not necessarily built for the rigors of full-time duty. He has a solid, but thin frame. I think he'd be best suited to a Bush/Norwood type role. I think he's better than Tatum Bell though. He has more flash to his game and more special qualities as a runner. He has some upside if he can add bulk.

 

[ditka85]

Is Jamal Charles the next T.Bell?

He's a tough guy to peg. One of the more impressive athletes in the RB crop, but not necessarily built for the rigors of full-time duty. He has a solid, but thin frame. I think he'd be best suited to a Bush/Norwood type role. I think he's better than Tatum Bell though. He has more flash to his game and more special qualities as a runner. He has some upside if he can add bulk.

Any idea what his BMI is? Don't recall where I read it but Charles dedicated this past year to football completely (no track) and spent more time in the weight room. I think he certainly can add 10+ pounds and still retain his speed.

 

[rufan]

Jamaal Charles. I think teams will look for ways to get him the rock.I am not a believer in Ray Rice. I don't think he plays that fast, and I think his vision is average at best.

Hehe...that's funny. One of Rice's strongest assets is his vision.

Then I think he's in bigger trouble than I thought.

No, you are the only one questioning his vision. The only reason he isn't going top 25 is because of his size. I'm sure he will be playing closer to 210 than 200, so that really shouldn't be too much of a concern.

 

[massraider]

Is Jamal Charles the next T.Bell?

He's a tough guy to peg. One of the more impressive athletes in the RB crop, but not necessarily built for the rigors of full-time duty. He has a solid, but thin frame. I think he'd be best suited to a Bush/Norwood type role. I think he's better than Tatum Bell though. He has more flash to his game and more special qualities as a runner. He has some upside if he can add bulk.

Any idea what his BMI is? Don't recall where I read it but Charles dedicated this past year to football completely (no track) and spent more time in the weight room. I think he certainly can add 10+ pounds and still retain his speed.

Chase Stuart has a listing of everyone's BMI round here somewhere. It's not good, I remember that.

 

[EBF]

Is Jamal Charles the next T.Bell?

He's a tough guy to peg. One of the more impressive athletes in the RB crop, but not necessarily built for the rigors of full-time duty. He has a solid, but thin frame. I think he'd be best suited to a Bush/Norwood type role. I think he's better than Tatum Bell though. He has more flash to his game and more special qualities as a runner. He has some upside if he can add bulk.

Any idea what his BMI is? Don't recall where I read it but Charles dedicated this past year to football completely (no track) and spent more time in the weight room. I think he certainly can add 10+ pounds and still retain his speed.

His BMI is 27.9, which is on the low side for a RB. He has a good frame, but it's a slender frame. I'm not sure if he'll be able to add 10-20 pounds or not. That's the big question mark for him, IMO. He has a lot of talent. You can lump Felix Jones, Chris Johnson, Jamaal Charles, and Steve Slaton into a group of talented scatbacks who probably need to add some weight if they want to be more than situational players at the NFL level. The odds are pretty good that one of these guys will emerge as a starter in the league, but it's hard to figure out which guy(s) might do it. They each have their own strengths and weaknesses as football players and athletes.

 

[switz]

What's the obvious weakness with Forte?

Forte lacks quickness and decisiveness. While his top end speed is decent, he doesn't explode out of the blocks, and is not quick enough to run outside. While his combine speed was impressive, it was not evident in game film. He is sorely inexperienced, and is extremely raw as a blocker.But the obvious weakness is his lack of quickness.

Combine NumbersFelix Jones 5'10 1/8 207....40 yard= 4.48 225 reps=8 Vertical=33.5 inches Short Shuttle = 4.19Matt Forte 6'1 3/8 217.....40 yard= 4.47 225 reps=23 Vert =33 inches Short Shuttle = 4.23During Pro Days....Jones increased his bench to 13 reps.Add to the fact that some on here think that Jones could add weight...I think Forte could add more with such a bigger frame.So if Forte lacks quickness...shouldn't Jones?

Which one of those measurables do you think relates to quickness? (Answer: none)

 

[Almas_4th_Child]

What's the obvious weakness with Forte?

Forte lacks quickness and decisiveness. While his top end speed is decent, he doesn't explode out of the blocks, and is not quick enough to run outside. While his combine speed was impressive, it was not evident in game film. He is sorely inexperienced, and is extremely raw as a blocker.But the obvious weakness is his lack of quickness.

Combine NumbersFelix Jones 5'10 1/8 207....40 yard= 4.48 225 reps=8 Vertical=33.5 inches Short Shuttle = 4.19Matt Forte 6'1 3/8 217.....40 yard= 4.47 225 reps=23 Vert =33 inches Short Shuttle = 4.23During Pro Days....Jones increased his bench to 13 reps.Add to the fact that some on here think that Jones could add weight...I think Forte could add more with such a bigger frame.So if Forte lacks quickness...shouldn't Jones?

Which one of those measurables do you think relates to quickness? (Answer: none)

Short Shuttle.....I should've pointed that out, but I figured it would be a given for someone as great as you Switz.

 

[switz]

What's the obvious weakness with Forte?

Forte lacks quickness and decisiveness. While his top end speed is decent, he doesn't explode out of the blocks, and is not quick enough to run outside. While his combine speed was impressive, it was not evident in game film. He is sorely inexperienced, and is extremely raw as a blocker.But the obvious weakness is his lack of quickness.

Combine NumbersFelix Jones 5'10 1/8 207....40 yard= 4.48 225 reps=8 Vertical=33.5 inches Short Shuttle = 4.19Matt Forte 6'1 3/8 217.....40 yard= 4.47 225 reps=23 Vert =33 inches Short Shuttle = 4.23During Pro Days....Jones increased his bench to 13 reps.Add to the fact that some on here think that Jones could add weight...I think Forte could add more with such a bigger frame.So if Forte lacks quickness...shouldn't Jones?

Which one of those measurables do you think relates to quickness? (Answer: none)

Short Shuttle.....I should've pointed that out, but I figured it would be a given for someone as great as you Switz.

Actually the short shuttle doesn't really relate well to quickness. But I believe others have already pointed that out earlier in this thread. Bottom line is when you watch the tape, Forte is not shifty, does not make great cuts, and does not explode out of his cuts, not get low in his cuts.I understand you like Forte, and I like Jones, and so we are probably going to have differing views of these players forever. That's cool, I have no problem with other people liking players and even highlighting their strengths or the reasons why they like a certain player. Well reasoned arguments add knowledge to this board.