Sabertooth
Footballguy
Sorry if I messed up on any of these, just went off the NFL.com depth chart listings.
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Best Starting Corner Tandem in the NFL (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Sabertooth
- Start date
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Dang! That didn't take long! Like I said, I just went off NFL.com
Red Herring
Footballguy
for their system, I vote Bills. Purely based on CB talent, I'd got with the Bucs, but I think the cover-2 is tailor-made for the Bills CBs.
Kevin Ashcraft
Footballguy
If Ty Law ends up in KC thats a pretty good 1-2 in Surtain and Law......even if its just on name value.
OZ is right, though Warfield isnt a POS, he is better characterized as DWI x 3.
OZ is right, though Warfield isnt a POS, he is better characterized as DWI x 3.
KnowledgeReignsSupreme
Footballguy
Minnysota.
adrenaline
Footballguy
I like the Panthers CBs, they play catch well.
ChampBailey24
Footballguy
Sheppard and Brown...for some reason it says brown and hood though.
I don't know about a wide margin. Fox and Williams were easily two of the three best rookie CBs in the entire NFL last season. Williams did play a bit better overall, but Foxworth was more consistant and dependable (and didn't get injured, which helps, too).That said, Pony is correct. Williams is the #2 CB, and will be getting all of the #2 reps unless Shanny decides to limit his defensive work a little bit to keep him fresh for the return game.
You did see Foxworth giving 10-15 yd cushions in the AFC championship, watching Roethlisberger cut apart DEN in 3rd down situations, didn't you?Williams is a couple of notches ahead of Foxworth, IMO. His cover skills were quite surprising for a 1st year CB, and he's a big play waiting to happen. Wait until he learns the game. I didn't see any inconsistency in Williams that I did with Foxworth's indecisiveness at the end of the season - though I think Foxworth can learn his way through that & be a very good CB.
Oh, sorry, I forgot that we're supposed to judge everyone based entirely on their performance in the most recently played game.
Yes, I remember Foxworth consistantly giving a big cushion in the AFC Championship game. I also remember Williams gambling a lot and not leaving enough space, only to get himself burned against Oakland. I also remember Foxworth tearing things up against Jacksonville, too. In the end, I think the difference is that Foxworth was more cautious and consistant, while Williams was a bigger gambler. I definitely think that Williams earned the start over Foxworth, but it wasn't a huge difference by any stretch of the imagination. Both have proven themselves more than competent enough that I wouldn't worry in the slightest if EITHER (or even BOTH) were forced to start for extended periods.Reminds me of Walls/Herndon. They had very different games, and you sure had me as to which was better than the other.
Macdaddy_2004
Footballguy
No Steelers ??
Ike and Townsend ??
Ike and Townsend ??
T
trader jake
Guest
wouldn't that be the exact reason why he was still available at pick 37? (and two teams even traded away that specific pick before atlanta utilized it on him)
T
trader jake
Guest
maybe, maybe notif you take away the big head and attitude he could have been a top 10 pick, but he wasn't (nor should he have been based on talent alone imo). when deangelo hall was drafted he came out with many of these same question marks (being called "me"angelo by teammates at virginia tech, etc) but he was an actual top 10 talent...jimmy williams is notwilliams did get drafted by a team that's a good fit for him. playing across from hall and on the carpet a lot should help, but he has to answer a lot of questions including can he stay healthy with his small frame and will he put in the work to oplay against the best competition? i don't mind the risk that the falcons took in selecting him where they did, but the packers and broncos were wise to trade that selection instead of selecting him
Let's say he's the best rookie CB in the entire league this season (which is far from guaranteed). Well, how would they manage to pass Williams/Bailey as the best CB tandem? I mean, Darrent Williams was the best rookie CB last season and a strong contender for DRoY before he went down to injury, so even if Jimmy Williams plays better (which means J. Williams = Defense Rookie of the Year), Bailey's more than enough better than Hall to make up for that. And I'd say that the odds are against Jimmy Williams winding up as the DRoY... but maybe that's just me.And I'm not even a big enough homer to think that Denver's CBs are the best tandem in the league (although I'd argue that if you go 3-deep they deserve strong consideration, because Foxworth is way better than your average nickle CB).
LawFitz
Footballguy
I agree that his attitude and work ethic may be questionable, but not his measurables or production on the field. The guy is a huge corner, yet still has elite quickness/speed. Everytime I saw him play in college I thought, dam this guy's gonna be a stud corner in the pros.Now I agree that character plays a HUGE role at the pro level, but I also think that at least early in his career (before any probowls, etc) Hall and Mora will keep him in line.
Plus, he has to be pissed at dropping so far in the draft.
Just my opinion though.
jurb26
Footballguy
Well, the Steelers coaching staff targeted Foxworthy as the weak link in that secondary and exploited it. That to mee tells me that Williams must be the player. I remember hearing Ben talk about it in the post game or something of that nature. I Would imagin that the Steelers broke down a bunch of film to come that that conclusion too. It's no tlike he was going against TO or Moss out there either.My vote goes the the Balt pair with Chi coming in at 2nd.Oh, sorry, I forgot that we're supposed to judge everyone based entirely on their performance in the most recently played game.
Reminds me of Walls/Herndon. They had very different games, and you sure had me as to which was better than the other.
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T
trader jake
Guest
very solid pointstaken by itself "small frame" doesn't really make sense...i guess i should have put "his measurables exceed his play on the field" and i just don't see him being able to make plays against the more physical NFL WR's. with a questionable work ethic i just envision injuries being a concern...we'll see
Voice Of Reason
Footballguy
Tampa wins in a close battle with Baltimore.
The poll at least got the top 2.
The poll at least got the top 2.
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1. Ravens
2. Panthers
3. Packers
4. Vikings
2. Panthers
3. Packers
4. Vikings
LordBourbon
Footballguy
Lito Sheppard - Sheldon Brown for the Birds.
Hood is a hell of a nickel back though. He could start for some teams.
Hood is a hell of a nickel back though. He could start for some teams.
Al Harris is one of the most underated defenders in the NFL! If Woodson bounces back (basically, all he has to do is not get injured) then the Packers have 2 corners that will be very formidable and easily in the top 2 or 3 tandums in the league.
Baltimore's, Philly's, and Pittsburg's "secondaries" are really good but that is derived mainly from Outstanding safeties!
Baltimore's, Philly's, and Pittsburg's "secondaries" are really good but that is derived mainly from Outstanding safeties!
Sheriff66
Footballguy
And you laugh, why ? Ike Taylor was playing unbelivable ball at the end of last year, quickly becoming a shutdown corner, and Townsend is very solid....Williams in ATL has not even played a down of pro ball, and people are already thinking they are the #1 tandem ??? Jammer and Newman were high draft choices also....
Borat
Footballguy
Because they aren't even close to Baltimore's corners. Not even close.Ike Taylor is a shutdown corner?And you laugh, why ? Ike Taylor was playing unbelivable ball at the end of last year, quickly becoming a shutdown corner, and Townsend is very solid....
There are maybe three or four "shutdown corners" in the entire league. And that's being generous. As good as Taylor may have been playing towards the end of last year, he's certainly not a shutdown corner.
Sheriff66
Footballguy
I guess we agree to disagree on this one, after Taylor got burned on Monday night by Harrison, he had that side of the field on lockdown for the rest of the season, he is one of the top young corners in the league, period.Because they aren't even close to Baltimore's corners. Not even close.Ike Taylor is a shutdown corner?And you laugh, why ? Ike Taylor was playing unbelivable ball at the end of last year, quickly becoming a shutdown corner, and Townsend is very solid....
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Borat
Footballguy
I agree that he is one of the better young corners in the league, but this isn't about "top young corners;" this is about "top corners," regardless of age.I guess we agree to disagree on this one, after Taylor got burned on Monday night by Harrison, he had that side of the field on lockdown for the rest of the season, he is one of the top young corners in the league, period.Because they aren't even close to Baltimore's corners. Not even close.Ike Taylor is a shutdown corner?And you laugh, why ? Ike Taylor was playing unbelivable ball at the end of last year, quickly becoming a shutdown corner, and Townsend is very solid....
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Sheriff66
Footballguy
Ok, I'll give everyone another year to see what the guy can do, I have a feeling after next season your tune will change....I agree that he is one of the better young corners in the league, but this isn't about "top young corners;" this is about "top corners," regardless of age.I guess we agree to disagree on this one, after Taylor got burned on Monday night by Harrison, he had that side of the field on lockdown for the rest of the season, he is one of the top young corners in the league, period.Because they aren't even close to Baltimore's corners. Not even close.Ike Taylor is a shutdown corner?And you laugh, why ? Ike Taylor was playing unbelivable ball at the end of last year, quickly becoming a shutdown corner, and Townsend is very solid....
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Evilgrin 72
Distributor of Pain
If you base it on last year only, it's Chicago and then Washington.
Baltimore is overrated. Saying Baltimore's corners are vastly superior to Pittsburgh's is really not fair.
Baltimore allowed a 56 completion % and 5.6 yards per attempt. They allowed 18 TDs through the air and intercepted 12 balls.
Pittsburgh allowed 57% and 5.7 yards per attempt. They allowed 15 TDs and intercepted 15 passes.
I know the safeties and the pass rush factor into this, but if Baltimore really were vastly superior at the corners, they'd have some discernible edge in these categories.
Baltimore is overrated. Saying Baltimore's corners are vastly superior to Pittsburgh's is really not fair.
Baltimore allowed a 56 completion % and 5.6 yards per attempt. They allowed 18 TDs through the air and intercepted 12 balls.
Pittsburgh allowed 57% and 5.7 yards per attempt. They allowed 15 TDs and intercepted 15 passes.
I know the safeties and the pass rush factor into this, but if Baltimore really were vastly superior at the corners, they'd have some discernible edge in these categories.
Borat
Footballguy
I agree that Baltimore's corners are overrated... but I also still think they are the best in the league. I furthermore believe that cornerback play is very similar to fielding in baseball, in that there are no available statistics that can reliably tell you how good a cornerback is.I'm sure all that sounds "very convenient" for the arguments I've been making, but that's just how I feel, honestly.
Evilgrin 72
Distributor of Pain
I don't even disagree with you there - I understand your point. These stats are really all we have to look at in terms of trying to quantify the quality of a secondary, I just found it odd that their INT/attempt totals were so low. Much of that has to do with Reed's abscence, but I think that he was a big reason why the Baltimore corners performed as well as they did the previous 2 years. hence, my statement that their corners are overrated.Likewise, I think Pittsburgh's corners, while not being in the elite in the NFL yet, are slightly underrated. With their safeties in run support so often, these guys are frequently left on an island 1-on-1 against some of the best receivers in the league. The fact that Pittsburgh's pass defense stats are as good as they are is a testament to them (as well as to LeBeau's pass rush schemes, which deserve a share of the credit.)
Agreed 100%. If Lito returns to his pre-injury form, the Eagles win in a runaway for me. It's RIDICULOUS to me how many great corners have gone through the Eagles in the past 5 years. Vincent and Taylor were both great, and they both leave in the same year and are replaced by Sheppard and Brown... who, by the way, are also both pro-bowl caliber performers, and what's that, here's Al Harris, former nickle back for the birds, playing like an All-Pro in Green Bay? Philly is to cornerbacks what Denver is to runningbacks and Brett Favre is to QBs (if you backed up Brett Favre, odds are you're going to be starting for some team in the not-so-distant future).
