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Best Van Halen Album of The First David Lee Roth Era. Have You Seen Junior's Grades? (1 Viewer)

Which Album Was The Best Van Halen Album w/David Lee Roth

  • Van Halen

    Votes: 29 51.8%
  • Van Halen II

    Votes: 1 1.8%
  • Women and Children First

    Votes: 3 5.4%
  • Fair Warning

    Votes: 8 14.3%
  • Diver Down

    Votes: 3 5.4%
  • 1984

    Votes: 12 21.4%

  • Total voters
    56

rockaction

Footballguy
Okay, ladies and gentlemen, time to answer that pressing question. 

Which album of the first DLR-era Van Halen was the best album? 

Pick an album, choose a song off of it, link to it, and tell us why you selected either or both or don't. 

 
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I'll go. drummer logged his. Nice picks.  

I chose Women and Children First. It's always been a sentimental favorite of mine and I think best showcases the band's sometimes limited range. On this album, what they do best is on full display, and it's genuinely one of their nicer albums in sentiment. Roth's devilism is dialed down a bit, and he's allowed to charm and woot his way into one's heart. He's almost playful here and even in his bad moment is sympathetic rather than just an unadulterated #######. 

Rockers and standouts "And The Cradle Will Rock" and "Everybody Wants Some!!!" are the marquee attractions here, but there's also the simple love balladry of "In A Simple Rhyme," the frenetic punk energy of "Loss Of Control," and the acoustic blues of "Could This Be Magic?"

My song pick is "In A Simple Rhyme." Simply a nice sentiment, a solid love song that laments both lost loves and failures and lionizes future ones. 

In A Simple Rhyme 

And she made the mountains sing
Birds against an icy sky
And I heard bells ringing 

I think I heard an angel sigh
And she said...There'll be times/there will be times
I could have heard and angel singing/I could have heard an angel singing 


You think me got me entranced
C'mon and take the time 
I'm going to be yours in a simple rhyme


 
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VH started their decline with "Women and Children First". "1984" only showed how bad Eddie was at synths. He used similar synth patches for the alsbum with Sammy. "Diver Down" was like "we just are doing this because of our contract". I pick "II" because of "Light Up the Sky" and "DOA".

I'm a spark on the horizon..

VH went from dark dystopian imagery to "pop some quaaludes dude and get some betties" that had only one or two tracks that reflected that on "Fair Warning", the opening track especially. "Fair Warning" was the angriest VH had ever gotten, "II" was nearest to it. Those two albums are the only ones in my collection, and I don't listen to VH hardly and haven't for years because:

Why? Sonically all the albums sound the same, they have become more detached from each other as a band, Fair Warning was VH as it's zenith, and I don't live at The Villages trying to relive my hedonism and even then, it was much more hedonistic with Bauhaus as the soundtrack

 
"Fair Warning" was the angriest VH had ever gotten
Agreed. This disqualifies it from being the best, in my opinion. 

This penetrates the heart of it. Does VH hold up in any way today? That is why I take Women and Children First first. There's a range on that album missing from the introduction of Van Halen, and Van Halen II sounds angry, patchy, burnt out on their own success and press. Women And Children First is a re-establishment of talent album. It's unmistakable in the songs they choose, the ranges they decide to traverse. But you ask the first and foremost question. 

But why Van Halen? Aren't they dated. Isn't their attitude best suited for passé moments, for passé intellects? Well, sort of, if we're being honest. I've written a bit at length about them because they were my first favorite band. In seventh grade. Which means there's a lot of growth since then. Do they hold up? I don't think so. 

But really why? 

I can answer that simply: Mobile Fidelity, who does restorations of sound recordings to vinyl, is doing their entire back catalogue. Just announced it. So here we go. Which is the best original DLR Warner Bros. recording to have?  

 
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I have to add that I am over 50 years old now. While I listen to music that has already been done, and have played that music many times with bands, I personally can't do it not because of any reason technically, it's just my vocabulary has expanded and grown to where I no longer relate to it.

 
I personally can't do it not because of any reason technically, it's just my vocabulary has expanded and grown to where I no longer relate to it.
Sure. That's what I was saying with them being my first band in seventh grade. Why the growth? From where? How do they miss the currents of thought of either the generation past or current, and what does age have to do with it? I figure that is food for thought, too, and the selection for those who self-select to answer the question will tell us in the description regarding why. Indeed, the simple act of self-selection or answering the question (or posing it) will tell us something about the answerer, too. 

This isn't really lost on the person (me) asking the question. They're a party band for young men and women. We're fifty or so. Where does that leave us in appreciation? Is Mobile Fidelity reading their clientele wrong in releasing all of these albums, an act that takes considerable energy, technical expertise, and cost?

It's all on the table.  

 
To have considered the premise of the question is up for grabs, even down to the interest of the subject being suspect, is something your questioner is well aware of. Seems like you might not know that. 

So, just clarifying. 

 
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Agreed. This disqualifies it from being the best, in my opinion. 

This penetrates the heart of it. Does VH hold up in any way today? That is why I take Women and Children First first. There's a range on that album missing from the introduction of Van Halen, and Van Halen II sounds angry, patchy, burnt out on their own success and press. Women And Children First is a re-establishment of talent album. It's unmistakable in the songs they choose, the ranges they decide to traverse. But you ask the first and foremost question. 

But why Van Halen? Aren't they dated. Isn't their attitude best suited for passé moments, for passé intellects? Well, sort of, if we're being honest. I've written a bit at length about them because they were my first favorite band. In seventh grade. Which means there's a lot of growth since then. Do they hold up? I don't think so. 

But really why? 

I can answer that simply: Mobile Fidelity, who does restorations of sound recordings to vinyl, is doing their entire back catalogue. Just announced it. So here we go. Which is the best original DLR Warner Bros. recording to have?  


I was in junior high school when their first album came out. I was in high school when "Jump" came out. Which again IMO was one of their weakest efforts even though it was their biggest record. It was during that time I got into jazz. I just needed something more because I play the drums. Rock in the 80's wound up a complete mess, and I got into punk because of it. That's why I prefer "II" the most, because it had a punk edge. Roth was a great frontman, and to me I think Eddie held him back. I mean look who replaced Roth. Sammy effing Hagar, whose as a songwriter was a joke. At least lyrically:

I've read it all, it's black and white
The spectrum made any shade I like
The crimson rays are ruby bright
Technicolor light, ow

(Red!)
I want red, there's no substitute for red
(Red!)
Paint it red, green ain't me compared to red

You don't know what it does to me
My crimson sin intensity
I'm haunted by the mystery
The mystery of red

(Red!)
Knocks 'em dead
Some like it hot, I like it Red

Red is my lover, got it covered
Red is my number, sure is a comer
Red is my drummer, and I hear red thunder
Move over brother, Red's a mother
Ow


Van Halen with Hagar became middle aged guys who sang about getting tail. Guys with kids, grand kids, mortgages, and divorce lawyers. Roth got into being Roth, big show type personality. They aged out when bands like Alice in Chains came along. But during the time when VH was huge, punk emerged, and VH went the other way. VH started as a backyard party band in SoCal, and what the LA scene was really about was the edgy underground. Sure there was the pay to play BS that took over the club scene, yet Motley Crue had a punk edge back then, so do Guns and Roses. I've seen punk bands cover "DOA" and it fit. Punk has been dead for years now, scenes come and go and rarely evolve. They just die like they should.

Eddie should had moved onto more challenging music. Instead he hired Gary Cherone.

 
I've pretty much agreed and do agree with everything you've said here in this thread. 

Van Halen with Hagar became middle aged guys who sang about getting tail. Guys with kids, grand kids, mortgages, and divorce lawyers
Absolutely. Let's not forget the military guys and the symbiosis with that whole demographic. Van Hagar was exceptionally good at appealing to people in the California suburbs who still drive Ford F150s without any payload to worry about besides a sack of vegetables for groceries in the back. 

Motley Crue had a punk edge back then, so do Guns and Roses. I've seen punk bands cover "DOA" and it fit
Totally agree. Motley Crue definitely had a glam/punk edge, and "D.O.A.," as I've noted before on this board as my favorite VH song depending upon the mood, is a punk song at heart, even if the angry trappings of Roth aren't ever punk enough. 

Eddie should had moved onto more challenging music. Instead he hired Gary Cherone.
Not sure about this. I think rock was the vernacular Eddie was meant to play in, like many virtuosos, his problem was finding compositionally adept people around him. Roth was one of the rare ones who could create and hang with Eddie. Once Roth was gone, they were screwed. 

 
It was during that time I got into jazz. I just needed something more because I play the drums.
Many a musician tells this story. 

Rock in the 80's wound up a complete mess, and I got into punk because of it.
Same thoughts here. The only worthwhile music of the '80s was some alternative and new wave, in the late '80s you had thrash. But punk was where it was at in California in the early '80s, namely because the art scene wasn't totally dead yet in the punk world before hardcore moved in and played bully with the art kids and freaks. 

 
I used to make tapes with songs off each album, but I always led with some of the deeper tracks on the debut,  like the 2 album side closers & Atomic Punk.

So in order

Van Halen

Fair Warning (tracks 6-9)

II (light up the sky + DOA)

W&C

1984

Diver Down (too many covers)

 
I went with the first album just because I was 13 living in the Northeast and it was a totally different sound than what was being played on the local rock stations 

 
The best of all albums not named 1984 are all better than anything you'd consider the best of 1984.

But 1984 in total is better than any other VH album.
I voted for 1984 before reading the responses, and this post pretty much sums up my thoughts too.  I love a bunch of tracks from their first album, but I can listed to 1984 all the way through and enjoy every song.  It's their most complete album.

 
Okay, ladies and gentlemen, time to answer that pressing question. 

Which album of the first DLR-era Van Halen was the best album? 

Pick an album, choose a song off of it, link to it, and tell us why you selected either or both or don't. 
Well I’ll go with the popular choice that may put off some of the VH diehards. 

Van Halen

This album was like an atom bomb. It was like nothing we’d heard before. True, I was only seven when it was released but I had a 14 year old brother who introduced me to rock and roll at a very young age.

Each track on this album was like an introduction to what we would be treated to over the next decade plus of music from VH. From the sheer insanity of Eruption, to the trademark phasered brown-sound of Ain’t Talkin’ Bout Love, to the up-tempo rockers of I’m the One, Atomic Punk and On Fire, balanced with the astoundingly slow tempo’d Running with the Devil and Little Dreamer (proving they could melt faces at any speed), to the display of pop sensibility with Jamie’s Cryin’ and Feel Your Love Tonight, to the ability to breath new life into a cover tune with You Really Got Me, to the silliness and campiness of Ice Cream Man. This album featured all of the elements of what would make Roth-era VH perhaps the most epic rock band of the next decade.

It was like a collection of greatest hits in a debut album. And it was amazing. Now mind you, many of my favorite VH songs aren’t on this album. But as a collection and given that it was their introduction to the world, this is undoubtedly the top album for me. 

Edit:  Also one of the best album covers ever. 

 
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I went with the first album just because I was 13 living in the Northeast and it was a totally different sound than what was being played on the local rock stations 
Yes, the style and tone of Eddie's guitar was far different than the other rock/metal of that time.

 
I went with the first album just because I was 13 living in the Northeast and it was a totally different sound than what was being played on the local rock stations 
I was the opposite. I was 12 when 1984 came out. Also in the northeast :P I thought it was awesome, when I hit high school I went backwards and bought all their albums.  

 
Okay, ladies and gentlemen, time to answer that pressing question. 

Which album of the first DLR-era Van Halen was the best album?   Van Halen

Pick an album, choose a song off of it, link to it, and tell us why you selected either or both or don't.  Ain't Talkin' Bout Love
I agree with those that said what makes this album so great/special in their catalog is that is was a sound nobody had heard before. They didn't sound like so and so. They had their own sound, and the album has hard rocking catchy songs on it. Eddie Van Halen had a distinct sound, and David Lee Roth was a great frontman for Eddie's sound and style. It's a great debut album, and it put Van Halen on the map, and it began a new chapter in hard rock.

 
Van Halen remains my favorite rock band. I'll start with a PSA - if you're into rock, check out Wolfie's band, Mammoth WVH. The debut album was awesome and I loved seeing them live. He wrote and recorded the entire thing by himself (ala Dave Grohl). He is so talented.

As for VH, here is my ranking of the albums:

Van Halen - such an explosive debut album and strong throughout
1984
A Different Kind of Truth*
Van Halen II
Women and Children First
Fair Warning
Diver Down

 
BTW, this thread is like a thesis on c0ck rock. I'll attend the defense in class next Wednesday. 


What's funny is last night I was thinking when and where misogyny started in rock and popular music. I went all the way back to the jazz age where some lyrics while not as explicit as the 80's (that brought us the PMRC, which ironically was spearheaded by Tipper Gore), they were quite bawdy in some recordings. It was dance music after all, during the time of prohibition.

I put bands like VH, Aerosmith, and such as "butt rock". I got that from a hairdresser friend of mine when I lived in San Francisco during the 90's. I had super long hair all the way down to my butt, and I wanted to cut it all off and donate my locks. She was like "It's about time, you look total butt rock".

 
I’d also give the nod to the debut slightly over Fair Warning. While I think the peak songs of FW are the best they ever did (particularly Eddie’s shredding and Alex’s fierce drumming), it’s somewhat more uneven than the classic debut.

 
1984 for me....let the haters hate, but 1984 has Panama which is their best song.  Don't @ me.

 
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It was tough between FW and the Debut. I went with FW. Just a dark, aggressive album. My rankings:

1. Fair Warning

2. Van Halen

3. Van Halen II

4. 1984

5. Diver Down

6. A Different Kind of Truth

7. Women and Children First

 
1984 for me....let the haters hate, but 1984 has Panama which is their best song.  Don't @ me.


Panama I can still listen to unironically because it teems with so much tongue-in-cheek irony you know it's not taking itself seriously. 

OR IS IT? 

Bitzy boppin' ain't no stoppin' now

 
Well I’ll go with the popular choice that may put off some of the VH diehards. 

Van Halen

This album was like an atom bomb. It was like nothing we’d heard before. True, I was only seven when it was released but I had a 14 year old brother who introduced me to rock and roll at a very young age.

Each track on this album was like an introduction to what we would be treated to over the next decade plus of music from VH. From the sheer insanity of Eruption, to the trademark phasered brown-sound of Ain’t Talkin’ Bout Love, to the up-tempo rockers of I’m the One, Atomic Punk and On Fire, balanced with the astoundingly slow tempo’d Running with the Devil and Little Dreamer (proving they could melt faces at any speed), to the display of pop sensibility with Jamie’s Cryin’ and Feel Your Love Tonight, to the ability to breath new life into a cover tune with You Really Got Me, to the silliness and campiness of Ice Cream Man. This album featured all of the elements of what would make Roth-era VH perhaps the most epic rock band of the next decade.

It was like a collection of greatest hits in a debut album. And it was amazing. Now mind you, many of my favorite VH songs aren’t on this album. But as a collection and given that it was their introduction to the world, this is undoubtedly the top album for me. 

Edit:  Also one of the best album covers ever. 


Good points all around. To me I like to hear how a band evolves from it's debut. How they follow up on it, like Guns and Roses and even The Pretenders, both who had solid debuts, probably their best records they have released. Talking Heads' greatest album "Remain in Light" came after several albums later, and drummer Chris Frantz and bassist Tina Weymouth had a huge influence over that album.

That's why I say "Fair Warning" was VH at it's zenith. I think it's the first album where they didn't cover any songs, and sonically it crushes "1984". EVH was also stretching out a bit, there was a bit of Allan Holdsworth influence creeping in his playing at the time (EVH really helped out Holdsworth in his career), and "Unchained" is the ultimate arena anthem.

ETA: I am so sick of "Hot for Teacher". Double bass drum shuffle, big deal. I'd rather play Quadrant 4 or Space Boogie than that song.

 
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Good points all around. To me I like to hear how a band evolves from it's debut. How they follow up on it, like Guns and Roses and even The Pretenders, both who had solid debuts, probably their best records they have released. Talking Heads' greatest album "Remain in Light" came after several albums later, and drummer Chris Frantz and bassist Tina Weymouth had a huge influence over that album.

That's why I say "Fair Warning" was VH at it's zenith. I think it's the first album where they didn't cover any songs, and sonically it crushes "1984". EVH was also stretching out a bit, there was a bit of Allan Holdsworth influence creeping in his playing at the time (EVH really helped out Holdsworth in his career), and "Unchained" is the ultimate arena anthem.

ETA: I am so sick of "Hot for Teacher". Double bass drum shuffle, big deal. I'd rather play Quadrant 4 or Space Boogie than that song.
Bolded is my #1

 
Voted 1984, only because it was the cassette that I received for Christmas as a 10 year old (along with Rick Springfield's Hard To Hold), was the first contraband I felt the need to hide from my parents and was an album that I devoured for hours on end. My favorite song always changed but Panama was always number 2 if not number 1.

After the Dave/VH divorce, I remember me and my buddy picking Van Hagar over DLR solo, and one night racking up tremendous phone charges as MTV's Friday Night Video Fights was on, and me and my buddy kept calling in for Van Hagar's "Why Can't This Be Love?" over DLR's "Yankee Rose", whom his brother would call in and vote, cancelling out our votes. I think calls were 99 cents each. The beating I watched those boys take in the middle of that night when their Dad realized what was going on was probably criminal.

After that, pretty much forgot about VH until college when I bought up everything. Loved it all, but it wasn't the same as being that kid. 

 
Voted 1984, only because it was the cassette that I received for Christmas as a 10 year old (along with Rick Springfield's Hard To Hold), was the first contraband I felt the need to hide from my parents and was an album that I devoured for hours on end. My favorite song always changed but Panama was always number 2 if not number 1.

After the Dave/VH divorce, I remember me and my buddy picking Van Hagar over DLR solo, and one night racking up tremendous phone charges as MTV's Friday Night Video Fights was on, and me and my buddy kept calling in for Van Hagar's "Why Can't This Be Love?" over DLR's "Yankee Rose", whom his brother would call in and vote, cancelling out our votes. I think calls were 99 cents each. The beating I watched those boys take in the middle of that night when their Dad realized what was going on was probably criminal.

After that, pretty much forgot about VH until college when I bought up everything. Loved it all, but it wasn't the same as being that kid. 
This is an awesome story. But your buddy’s brother had it right. Yankee Rose is a smokin’ tune. 

 
It was when I started to realize how noisy AVH's playing is - enough with the cymbals man! - that I really soured on VH.

That's why Little Guitars is still my favorite VH song.

 
It was when I started to realize how noisy AVH's playing is - enough with the cymbals man! - that I really soured on VH.
He really is all over the cymbals much of the time. Rarely does it bug me, but it's certainly noticeable.

In the "ADKOT" is underrtated category, I love AVH's playing on "As Is". A monster of a song driven by tribal drums.

 
Close call between the debut and Fair Warning.  I gave Fair Warning the nod since I figure the debut will win this in a rout. The first five songs on Fair Warning is easily the best 5-song run on any VH album ever. 

1984 would be in 3rd place, with II right after. 

Women and Children First is good, but doesn't have the major highs of the four above. Diver Down is okay. 

 
It was when I started to realize how noisy AVH's playing is - enough with the cymbals man! - that I really soured on VH.

That's why Little Guitars is still my favorite VH song.


I think the worst drum sounds AVH had was on 1984, the bass drums sounded like tin tubs, the toms too brittle, and the snare too thin. His best drums sounds were on the first two albums, I think he was using double headed toms, and Fair Warning I think he used single headed ones. He had unique ideas when it came to his live kit back when he had four bass drums where the outer two were only used as extra chambers, and housed a speaker. There was no beater head on them, they were attached to his two main bass drums via large tubing. His cymbals were mixed hotter on records like Fair Warning, 1984 and Diver Down. 1984, those drums were mixed way up front, playing that busy with the drums that hot in the mix to me grinds my ears a bit. They just don't sound warm, they sound more cold if anything.

 
It was when I started to realize how noisy AVH's playing is - enough with the cymbals man! - that I really soured on VH.

That's why Little Guitars is still my favorite VH song.
Funny you say that because I disliked Don't Tell Me What Love Can Do a lot the first time I heard it because of how noisy his cymbals were in the choruses.  I had never really noticed the overuse of cymbals that much until that came out in '95. 

 
Well I’ll go with the popular choice that may put off some of the VH diehards. 

Van Halen

This album was like an atom bomb. It was like nothing we’d heard before. True, I was only seven when it was released but I had a 14 year old brother who introduced me to rock and roll at a very young age.

Each track on this album was like an introduction to what we would be treated to over the next decade plus of music from VH. From the sheer insanity of Eruption, to the trademark phasered brown-sound of Ain’t Talkin’ Bout Love, to the up-tempo rockers of I’m the One, Atomic Punk and On Fire, balanced with the astoundingly slow tempo’d Running with the Devil and Little Dreamer (proving they could melt faces at any speed), to the display of pop sensibility with Jamie’s Cryin’ and Feel Your Love Tonight, to the ability to breath new life into a cover tune with You Really Got Me, to the silliness and campiness of Ice Cream Man. This album featured all of the elements of what would make Roth-era VH perhaps the most epic rock band of the next decade.

It was like a collection of greatest hits in a debut album. And it was amazing. Now mind you, many of my favorite VH songs aren’t on this album. But as a collection and given that it was their introduction to the world, this is undoubtedly the top album for me. 

Edit:  Also one of the best album covers ever. 
This sums up my feelings pretty well. 

 
1. Fair Warning
  To me this one is perfect

2. Van Halen
  This one is not 2 for me for 1A it's equally as perfect

3. Van Halen II
  Okay and this one is 1B then if I'm being honest.

4. A Different Kind of Truth
  I really, really love this album and I think the number of albums sold simply don't do it justice, it's a fantastic album really.

5. Women and Children First 
   For me "Take your whiskey home, Everybody wants some, And the cradle will rock, In a simple rhyme and fools" are some of my all time favorite songs (going from memory) such a fantastic album.

6. Diver Down
At this point they shouldn't have been forced to do this many cover songs, they did an amazing job on them but you just felt like it was rushed/pressured to put out something and in the end it's a bit of a disappointment.  Having said that my God I love Cathedral, Hang Em High, Secrets, Little Guitars, The Full Bug and what always brings a smile to my face is knowing how AWESOME it is that Eddie's Dad played on Big Bad Bill, I love that song just for that.  I feel like this album gets crapped on a lot but I actually like it quite a bit and I feel bad putting it down here.

7. 1984
  There are some amazing songs on this album, again some of all time favorites, I love the hell out of it, I just love some other albums, overall, a little bit more.  I'm putting this album where it would be if I had a 7 disc cd player, it would be in spot #7 plus it got (and still gets) a HELL of a lot of airplay.

** Me Wise Magic  and Can't Get This Stuff No More - both CRIMINALLY underrated VH songs from the 1996 Best of VH 1 album are two of my favorite songs from the VH catalog and if you stop and think about it, are the very last two songs from the original lineup (Dave, Ed, Mikey, Alex)

*** I absolutely LOVE Wolfie's album - he's an amazing artist and he did a great job on that album - the Don't Back Down video is as great as the song - love it!

 
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No wrong answer here except Diver Down IMO, which wasn't VH's fault and even then it's got some great tunes, like Little Guitars as was mentioned above.

Every other album is amazing for me. VH1 is probably "the best," though not sure it's my favorite (I voted VH1 but it's fluid). I find myself gravitating toward Fair Warning and Women and Children First these days as they have so many terrific songs that weren't traditional hits. But they're all great. Probably my favorite all time band, and I still listen to them fairly often. Every DLR album is just firing on all cylinders. I love how the albums are like a half an hour but it doesn't matter; they get in, kick you in the face with sheer musical awesomeness and get the hell out. 

"Look I'll pay you for it what the fu..."

 

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