Bettis' book full of surprises (1 Viewer)

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

The rooneys are cheapNice one page book ya got there

Yup, the Steelers are well known for not paying their performers.

They're well known for letting people go who they think are on the downside of their careers. Saying they don't pay their performers is just silly. When Alan Faneca signed his last contract, he was the 2nd highest paid OG in the NFL (at that time). Troy P's new contract either makes him the highest paid safety in the league, or just 2nd to Ed Reed (depending on how it breaks down by year, It's really close and I don't recall the exact details of each ). They pay people who are in their prime. They don't pay people who are on the other side of thirty the same amount that some other stupid team will pay for them only to have them way underperform. It's happened time and time and time again, with maybe 2 or 3 people who in hindsight they should have kept (Rod Woodson, arguably Chad Brown, some others I may be forgetting). The list of "yep, that was the right call not to pay them" is MUCH longer.

and not paying Cowher?

 

[AhrnCityPahnder]

The rooneys are cheapNice one page book ya got there

Yup, the Steelers are well known for not paying their performers.

They're well known for letting people go who they think are on the downside of their careers. Saying they don't pay their performers is just silly. When Alan Faneca signed his last contract, he was the 2nd highest paid OG in the NFL (at that time). Troy P's new contract either makes him the highest paid safety in the league, or just 2nd to Ed Reed (depending on how it breaks down by year, It's really close and I don't recall the exact details of each ). They pay people who are in their prime. They don't pay people who are on the other side of thirty the same amount that some other stupid team will pay for them only to have them way underperform. It's happened time and time and time again, with maybe 2 or 3 people who in hindsight they should have kept (Rod Woodson, arguably Chad Brown, some others I may be forgetting). The list of "yep, that was the right call not to pay them" is MUCH longer.

and not paying Cowher?

Time will tell. He wanted a year (or more? probably not) off. What do you say to that? "No, we don't accept your resignation?"

 

[Godsbrother]

The rooneys are cheapNice one page book ya got there

Yup, the Steelers are well known for not paying their performers.

They're well known for letting people go who they think are on the downside of their careers. Saying they don't pay their performers is just silly. When Alan Faneca signed his last contract, he was the 2nd highest paid OG in the NFL (at that time). Troy P's new contract either makes him the highest paid safety in the league, or just 2nd to Ed Reed (depending on how it breaks down by year, It's really close and I don't recall the exact details of each ). They pay people who are in their prime. They don't pay people who are on the other side of thirty the same amount that some other stupid team will pay for them only to have them way underperform. It's happened time and time and time again, with maybe 2 or 3 people who in hindsight they should have kept (Rod Woodson, arguably Chad Brown, some others I may be forgetting). The list of "yep, that was the right call not to pay them" is MUCH longer.

and not paying Cowher?

Time will tell. He wanted a year (or more? probably not) off. What do you say to that? "No, we don't accept your resignation?"

The Steelers were trying to extend the contract when Cowher broke off talks. Was it a case of Cowher needing time off, getting into a tiff with Art Rooney II, or knowing that other owners would have deeper pockets than the Steelers?Depends on who you ask but the Steelers were trying to sign him to an extension...

 

[Ghost Rider]

Boy, there are some big surprises there. I mean, Kordell Stewart was a Pro Bowler?!

He had a decent year in 2001 and made it as an alternate.

He was lot more than a pro bowler that year, he finished third in NFL MVP voting.

Great. That & $10.00 will buy you a cup of coffee at Starbucks.The team went 13-3 and Kordell deserves some of the credit for that but remember that team had a great defense (#3 in pts allowed) and a great running game (#1). Kordell was a great runner but even in this pro bowl year he only threw for 14 TDs to 11 ints. Nothing to get really excited about.One of Kordell's biggest flaws was his inability to lead team to victory once when they fell behind. This showed up in the AFC Championship Game when Kordell's 3 ints killed any chance of a trip to the Super Bowl. Kordell didn't lose that game (two special teams plays did that) but the Steelers outgained the Patriots and only lost by 7 points. There were plenty of opportunities to come back and win that game but Kordell was terrible, absolutely terrible.Contrast that a year later when Tommy Maddox took pretty much the same team and was able to come from behind to defeat the Browns 36-33 in the playoffs and nearly did it again the next week against the Titans (the Steelers were behind several times by double digits and eventually lost due to a roughing the kicker penalty in OT).Make no mistake about it Tommy Maddox was not a great quarterback but the one thing Steelers fans can always thank Tommy for is finally nailing the coffin on Kordell's career in Pittsburgh.

Then again, according to Bettis, it is Bill Cowher's fault for not making Kordell Stewart better. I wonder whose fault it really was that Bettis lost that fumble against the Colts that almost derailed their Super Bowl run 19 months ago.

 

[Pat Patriot]

Bettis is and was a fraud. It is as simple as that.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

I think Jerome has overstayed his welcome. Quite a few people called in the night the quotes from this book came out and most felt the same way. Enough already. We were tired of seeing his mom & dad all the time, tired of the Jerome Bettis show, and now are tired of hearing him spout off since his retirement. I'm guessing his restaurant will go under in 3 years or less.

Give me $1,000 on the under.

Have you been there? It's a pretty nice bar. Doesnt seat many people inside for dinner though. The outside is decent and the location is perfect for games and when the casinos finally open. Food is good and bar is big with a ####load of TVs.ETA: Hines Ward's place, The Locker Room, is what is going to close. That place sucks.

Yeah, I've been there. The food was average. The restaurant was so loud I couldn't even have a conversation. I doubt that I'd ever go back.

Loud = busy = good for business

But that's the thing, it really wasn't that busy. Just too many televisions on too many different channels. It actually started giving me a headache.

Too many TVs? It's a glorified sports bar. If you wanted a nice quiet meal, go down the street to Hyde Park and get a good steak

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Have you been there? It's a pretty nice bar. Doesnt seat many people inside for dinner though. The outside is decent and the location is perfect for games and when the casinos finally open. Food is good and bar is big with a ####load of TVs.

I may have to check it out some Sunday afternoon this season.

ETA: Hines Ward's place, The Locker Room, is what is going to close. That place sucks.

Wow - I didn't even know Hines had a place. Where is it?

The outdoor seating is key at Jerome's. I went there after a Pirate game a few weeks ago and even w/ outside seating the line was out the door when I left. When the weather gets bad, that place is going to be crowded and/or the line will be a monster. So go early in the season.Hines Ward's place is on Carson on the South Side. The Locker Room. It is a long and narrow bar. Nothing special other than the Steelers photos etc. When he is there, he is upstairs in VIP. I think they are either renovating the place now or it has already gone under. Last time I went past it there was paper on the windows.

 

[menobrown]

Boy, there are some big surprises there. I mean, Kordell Stewart was a Pro Bowler?!

He had a decent year in 2001 and made it as an alternate.

He was lot more than a pro bowler that year, he finished third in NFL MVP voting.

Great. That & $10.00 will buy you a cup of coffee at Starbucks.The team went 13-3 and Kordell deserves some of the credit for that but remember that team had a great defense (#3 in pts allowed) and a great running game (#1). Kordell was a great runner but even in this pro bowl year he only threw for 14 TDs to 11 ints. Nothing to get really excited about.One of Kordell's biggest flaws was his inability to lead team to victory once when they fell behind. This showed up in the AFC Championship Game when Kordell's 3 ints killed any chance of a trip to the Super Bowl. Kordell didn't lose that game (two special teams plays did that) but the Steelers outgained the Patriots and only lost by 7 points. There were plenty of opportunities to come back and win that game but Kordell was terrible, absolutely terrible.Contrast that a year later when Tommy Maddox took pretty much the same team and was able to come from behind to defeat the Browns 36-33 in the playoffs and nearly did it again the next week against the Titans (the Steelers were behind several times by double digits and eventually lost due to a roughing the kicker penalty in OT).Make no mistake about it Tommy Maddox was not a great quarterback but the one thing Steelers fans can always thank Tommy for is finally nailing the coffin on Kordell's career in Pittsburgh.

First of all I was simply pointing out that he finished third in MVP voting. How is it ok for you to mention he made the pro bowl and than blast me for saying he achieved a higher honor and finished third in MVP voting? I mean, were do you get off?Let me tell you the game is bigger than stats. We can play with those all day long. You can say that he only threw 14 TD's and ignore the fact he also ran for over 500 yards, 5 TD's and let the team to a 13-3 record. Kordell was not perfect and he certainly had his poor times but for the most part he won. He went 46-29 as a starter and took the team to 2 AFC Championship games. It's laughable that you want to use Maddox as an example to put down what Kordell did. Yes, we barely beat the Browns in the playoffs and lost the next week under Maddox which of course means we did not make it as far as we did the previous season with Kordell and that's a good example of how we were better off? Kordell can't lead a team from behind? Do you realize he led us from what I believe is the greatest comeback in Steeler history against the Ravens? Do you know he led 4 comebacks his first year as a starter alone? Lets talk about his two AFC championship games in regards to comebacks. Against Denver in 1997 he played like turd. That's understandable. He was the first ever first year starting QB to have his team in the championship game. Despite his struggles he did in fact lead the Steelers back to 24-21 and put us in position to get the ball back in FG goal range until Elway converted third and long to Sharpe. Against the Patriots he did in fact lead us back into the game after special teams put us in a hole but he crumbled at the end. I'll never level that loss on Kordell.Other than that it's my turn to play with stats. Kordell finished his career as the Steelers #3 in completion percentage and QB rating , #2 in yards, attempts, completions and TD's and #1 in all relevant QB rusing numbers all the while compiling a outstanding record and leading us to two AFC championship games. Yes he had his up's and downs and it was time for him to go when he did but to denegrate his 2001 season and entire career is not an opinion I support.

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

Good for Bettis to put a little controversy into his book. Who wants to read "Winning the Super Bowl was a special moment...I loved my career...blah blah blah." I want to read some juicy details, and faking an injury is pretty big.

 

[Tom Servo]

Here's an excerpt from my upcoming book.

Kordell Stewart sucked

Do you take PayPal? PM me your e-mail address; I'll be your first buyer.

 

[SteelerMurf]

Good for Bettis to put a little controversy into his book. Who wants to read "Winning the Super Bowl was a special moment...I loved my career...blah blah blah." I want to read some juicy details, and faking an injury is pretty big.

But the injury was not fake. He had to fake when he got the injury so they wouldn't have cut him. There was a point a few years ago that everyone thought Bettis had nothing left in the tank. In that offseason he knew he needed a cleanup surgery in his knee. He knew that if he told anyone during the offseason they would have cut him.So he faked when he got the injury. The injury was there and I think he did have a cleanup surgery and went on to have a great year.

 

[SteelerMurf]

Good for Bettis to put a little controversy into his book. Who wants to read "Winning the Super Bowl was a special moment...I loved my career...blah blah blah." I want to read some juicy details, and faking an injury is pretty big.

But the injury was not fake. He had to fake when he got the injury so they wouldn't have cut him. There was a point a few years ago that everyone thought Bettis had nothing left in the tank. In that offseason he knew he had an injured knee. He knew that if he told anyone during the offseason they would have cut him.So he faked when he got the injury.



"The thing is, I wasn't faking that I had an injury. I was just faking that the injury happened on that short-yardage play. I had to fool the coaches and the team's medical department into thinking the injury had occurred on that play. Otherwise, the Steelers would have had their reason to cut me and my salary."

 

[Evilgrin 72]

Bettis is and was a fraud. It is as simple as that.

I know this is but as far as faking the injury went, Mike Golic was just on Mike & Mike saying this happens constantly in NFL locker rooms and that if he'd had the opportunity to know he was about to get cut, he'd have faked injury in a heartbeat. You're pretty naive if you don't believe just about any NFL player would do whatever he could to remain on the roster when facing obliteration.

 

[CrossEyed]

I think Jerome has overstayed his welcome. Quite a few people called in the night the quotes from this book came out and most felt the same way. Enough already. We were tired of seeing his mom & dad all the time, tired of the Jerome Bettis show, and now are tired of hearing him spout off since his retirement. I'm guessing his restaurant will go under in 3 years or less.

Give me $1,000 on the under.

Have you been there? It's a pretty nice bar. Doesnt seat many people inside for dinner though. The outside is decent and the location is perfect for games and when the casinos finally open. Food is good and bar is big with a ####load of TVs.ETA: Hines Ward's place, The Locker Room, is what is going to close. That place sucks.

Yeah, I've been there. The food was average. The restaurant was so loud I couldn't even have a conversation. I doubt that I'd ever go back.

Loud = busy = good for business

But that's the thing, it really wasn't that busy. Just too many televisions on too many different channels. It actually started giving me a headache.

Too many TVs? It's a glorified sports bar. If you wanted a nice quiet meal, go down the street to Hyde Park and get a good steak

I realize that now. Thing is, even in a sports bar, there's usually only sound up on the main screen. This place has tvs in each booth and it seemed like everyone was in a competition to have theirs louder than the next booth. It was really annoying.

 

[AhrnCityPahnder]

First of all I was simply pointing out that he finished third in MVP voting. How is it ok for you to mention he made the pro bowl and than blast me for saying he achieved a higher honor and finished third in MVP voting? I mean, were do you get off?

I don't see anyone "blasting" anyone. I see a discussion. Turn the sensitivity meter down a notch or three.

 

[Godsbrother]

First of all I was simply pointing out that he finished third in MVP voting. How is it ok for you to mention he made the pro bowl and than blast me for saying he achieved a higher honor and finished third in MVP voting? I mean, were do you get off?

Whoa! Slow down partner! I didn't blast you, I merely pointing out that his PASSING numbers were not that great in 2001. And is finishing 3rd in MVP voting a higher honor than making the Pro Bowl? At least with making the Pro Bowl you get a trip to Hawaii and play on national TV. What do you get for finishing 3rd in MVP honors? I couldn't tell you who finished 3rd last season.

Let me tell you the game is bigger than stats. We can play with those all day long. You can say that he only threw 14 TD's and ignore the fact he also ran for over 500 yards, 5 TD's and let the team to a 13-3 record.

I am fully aware the game is bigger than stats. I gave Kordell credit for the 13-3 record and commented that he was a great runner. He was not, however, a great passer. If you watched Kordell then you don't need stats to tell you that -- but the stats do bear that out.

Kordell was not perfect and he certainly had his poor times but for the most part he won. He went 46-29 as a starter and took the team to 2 AFC Championship games. It's laughable that you want to use Maddox as an example to put down what Kordell did. Yes, we barely beat the Browns in the playoffs and lost the next week under Maddox which of course means we did not make it as far as we did the previous season with Kordell and that's a good example of how we were better off?

Kordell was horrible in the post season. I used Maddox as a comparision because he was able to bring the team back after being way down in both games -- something Kordell was unable to do in the postseason. That is the point I was trying to make.

Kordell can't lead a team from behind? Do you realize he led us from what I believe is the greatest comeback in Steeler history against the Ravens? Do you know he led 4 comebacks his first year as a starter alone? Lets talk about his two AFC championship games in regards to comebacks. Against Denver in 1997 he played like turd. That's understandable. He was the first ever first year starting QB to have his team in the championship game. Despite his struggles he did in fact lead the Steelers back to 24-21 and put us in position to get the ball back in FG goal range until Elway converted third and long to Sharpe. Against the Patriots he did in fact lead us back into the game after special teams put us in a hole but he crumbled at the end. I'll never level that loss on Kordell.

Kordell had his best season in 1997 and I said that. He looked like he was going to be a phenom and did have some great come from behind victories back then (although that season he had a habit of playing really bad in the 1st half and then doing great in the 2nd half. I remember people joking that they should start Tomczak and bring Kordell in at halftime.)Unfortunately he never improved on that season and in fact regressed. I was at every home game Kordell ever played and I can tell you that once we fell behind the whole stadium felt we were in trouble because he typically did not play well when we were behind (dspite 1997). It wasn't solely his fault that we lost those playoff games (I said that in my post) but he did perform poorly when we were behind, throwing 3 picks in both games. I mean facts are facts.

Other than that it's my turn to play with stats. Kordell finished his career as the Steelers #3 in completion percentage and QB rating , #2 in yards, attempts, completions and TD's and #1 in all relevant QB rusing numbers all the while compiling a outstanding record and leading us to two AFC championship games. Yes he had his up's and downs and it was time for him to go when he did but to denegrate his 2001 season and entire career is not an opinion I support.

I did not denegrate his 2001 season -- I said he he had a decent year. I said he deserved some of the credit for the 13-3 season but he was also blessed with the #3 defense and the #1 rushing team that season. He played well that season but it ws by no means a banner year for a QB.Kordell does rank high on the all-time Steelers list but let's not get carried away here. Neil O'Donnell ranks high on the Steelers all time QB rankings too but I don't thnk he was that great of a QB either. The truth is that other than Terry Bradshaw and possibly Ben Roethlisberger (jury is still out) the Steelers haven't exactly had a history of great QBs.

I think Kordell Stewart was a great athlete but was NOT a very good QB. Other than 1997 and 2001 he pretty much stunk up the joint as a starting QB. If you believe otherwise then that is fine -- that is what this board is all about.

But I am willing to bet that 80% of Steelers fans and 90% of the shark pool will agree with me.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

I agree with you. Kordell sucked in the postseason, turned to ball over in critical spots so many times, could NOT win a game with his arm when called upon to do so... he was a glorified RB/WR who could throw the ball some, he was not a good NFL QB. That's plain and simple. If a guy with his athletic ability was even mediocre as a passer, he would have succeeded. It was to the point where if the Steelers fell behind a good opponent in an important game, it was all but over because Kordell was 3 times as likely to force the ball into a bad spot and kill a drive than he was to lead the team to a a score. Re-watch the AFCCs vs. Denver or New England if you disagree.

 

[Ghost Rider]

First of all I was simply pointing out that he finished third in MVP voting. How is it ok for you to mention he made the pro bowl and than blast me for saying he achieved a higher honor and finished third in MVP voting? I mean, were do you get off?

Whoa! Slow down partner! I didn't blast you, I merely pointing out that his PASSING numbers were not that great in 2001. And is finishing 3rd in MVP voting a higher honor than making the Pro Bowl? At least with making the Pro Bowl you get a trip to Hawaii and play on national TV. What do you get for finishing 3rd in MVP honors? I couldn't tell you who finished 3rd last season.

I would say finishing 3rd in the MVP voting is a much higher honor than making the Pro Bowl. If you finished 3rd in the MVP voting, you have a strong argument that you were one of the absolute best and/or valuable players in the NFL that particular season.

Making the Pro Bowl as a QB merely means that you might have been one of the best six players at your position (since three QBs make it in each conference) in the NFL that particular season.

I think Kordell Stewart was a great athlete but was NOT a very good QB. Other than 1997 and 2001 he pretty much stunk up the joint as a starting QB. If you believe otherwise then that is fine -- that is what this board is all about.

Perhaps you should get a hold of Jerome Bettis and tell him that, since he seems to have a bad memory about Stewart's play at the QB position.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

I agree with you. Kordell sucked in the postseason, turned to ball over in critical spots so many times, could NOT win a game with his arm when called upon to do so... he was a glorified RB/WR who could throw the ball some, he was not a good NFL QB. That's plain and simple. If a guy with his athletic ability was even mediocre as a passer, he would have succeeded. It was to the point where if the Steelers fell behind a good opponent in an important game, it was all but over because Kordell was 3 times as likely to force the ball into a bad spot and kill a drive than he was to lead the team to a a score. Re-watch the AFCCs vs. Denver or New England if you disagree.

This is the key. KS was a QB you could win wit but your absolutely crazy if you think he can lead a team in a comeback or pressure situation.

 

[Godsbrother]

I would say finishing 3rd in the MVP voting is a much higher honor than making the Pro Bowl. If you finished 3rd in the MVP voting, you have a strong argument that you were one of the absolute best and/or valuable players in the NFL that particular season.

I guess so but it is a fleeting honor since no one remembers where you finished in the voting if you didn't win it. Pro Bowl appearances everyone remembers.

Perhaps you should get a hold of Jerome Bettis and tell him that, since he seems to have a bad memory about Stewart's play at the QB position.

Bettis would say that Stewart's poor play was Cowher's fault because he didn't show him enough support which we all know is BS.

 

[Tex Goldstein]

First of all I was simply pointing out that he finished third in MVP voting. How is it ok for you to mention he made the pro bowl and than blast me for saying he achieved a higher honor and finished third in MVP voting? I mean, were do you get off?

Whoa! Slow down partner! I didn't blast you, I merely pointing out that his PASSING numbers were not that great in 2001. And is finishing 3rd in MVP voting a higher honor than making the Pro Bowl? At least with making the Pro Bowl you get a trip to Hawaii and play on national TV. What do you get for finishing 3rd in MVP honors? I couldn't tell you who finished 3rd last season.

Let me tell you the game is bigger than stats. We can play with those all day long. You can say that he only threw 14 TD's and ignore the fact he also ran for over 500 yards, 5 TD's and let the team to a 13-3 record.

I am fully aware the game is bigger than stats. I gave Kordell credit for the 13-3 record and commented that he was a great runner. He was not, however, a great passer. If you watched Kordell then you don't need stats to tell you that -- but the stats do bear that out.

Kordell was not perfect and he certainly had his poor times but for the most part he won. He went 46-29 as a starter and took the team to 2 AFC Championship games. It's laughable that you want to use Maddox as an example to put down what Kordell did. Yes, we barely beat the Browns in the playoffs and lost the next week under Maddox which of course means we did not make it as far as we did the previous season with Kordell and that's a good example of how we were better off?

Kordell was horrible in the post season. I used Maddox as a comparision because he was able to bring the team back after being way down in both games -- something Kordell was unable to do in the postseason. That is the point I was trying to make.

Kordell can't lead a team from behind? Do you realize he led us from what I believe is the greatest comeback in Steeler history against the Ravens? Do you know he led 4 comebacks his first year as a starter alone? Lets talk about his two AFC championship games in regards to comebacks. Against Denver in 1997 he played like turd. That's understandable. He was the first ever first year starting QB to have his team in the championship game. Despite his struggles he did in fact lead the Steelers back to 24-21 and put us in position to get the ball back in FG goal range until Elway converted third and long to Sharpe. Against the Patriots he did in fact lead us back into the game after special teams put us in a hole but he crumbled at the end. I'll never level that loss on Kordell.

Kordell had his best season in 1997 and I said that. He looked like he was going to be a phenom and did have some great come from behind victories back then (although that season he had a habit of playing really bad in the 1st half and then doing great in the 2nd half. I remember people joking that they should start Tomczak and bring Kordell in at halftime.)Unfortunately he never improved on that season and in fact regressed. I was at every home game Kordell ever played and I can tell you that once we fell behind the whole stadium felt we were in trouble because he typically did not play well when we were behind (dspite 1997). It wasn't solely his fault that we lost those playoff games (I said that in my post) but he did perform poorly when we were behind, throwing 3 picks in both games. I mean facts are facts.

Other than that it's my turn to play with stats. Kordell finished his career as the Steelers #3 in completion percentage and QB rating , #2 in yards, attempts, completions and TD's and #1 in all relevant QB rusing numbers all the while compiling a outstanding record and leading us to two AFC championship games. Yes he had his up's and downs and it was time for him to go when he did but to denegrate his 2001 season and entire career is not an opinion I support.

I did not denegrate his 2001 season -- I said he he had a decent year. I said he deserved some of the credit for the 13-3 season but he was also blessed with the #3 defense and the #1 rushing team that season. He played well that season but it ws by no means a banner year for a QB.Kordell does rank high on the all-time Steelers list but let's not get carried away here. Neil O'Donnell ranks high on the Steelers all time QB rankings too but I don't thnk he was that great of a QB either. The truth is that other than Terry Bradshaw and possibly Ben Roethlisberger (jury is still out) the Steelers haven't exactly had a history of great QBs.

I think Kordell Stewart was a great athlete but was NOT a very good QB. Other than 1997 and 2001 he pretty much stunk up the joint as a starting QB. If you believe otherwise then that is fine -- that is what this board is all about.

But I am willing to bet that 80% of Steelers fans and 90% of the shark pool will agree with me.

I am one of the 80% and 90%, Stewart was never an elite talent at QB - he had a fragile psyche and got easily flustered when bad luck/unforeseen difficulties caused problems during games, IMO. I watched him play in college at Colorado and it was the same deal back then, too. However, could we please get this thread back on the topic of my alter-ego :11:'s soon-to-be-bestselling tell-all book?

 

[Yitbos69]

The rooneys are cheap

Don't confuse cheap with not overpaying for those who may not be worth a big contract. The steelers have been right up against the salary cap every year in recent memory -- not sure how that can be considered cheap by anyone's definition of the word.

In Tony Dungy's Book he talks about how little he made as a Defensive Cord. for the Steelers.....How talked about how surprised he was to see that position coaches on other teams were making more than he was as a Defensive Cord.Seems pretty cheap to me!

 

[AhrnCityPahnder]

The rooneys are cheap

Don't confuse cheap with not overpaying for those who may not be worth a big contract. The steelers have been right up against the salary cap every year in recent memory -- not sure how that can be considered cheap by anyone's definition of the word.

In Tony Dungy's Book he talks about how little he made as a Defensive Cord. for the Steelers.....How talked about how surprised he was to see that position coaches on other teams were making more than he was as a Defensive Cord.Seems pretty cheap to me!

The Rooneys are cheap because of how much they paid defensive coordinator 23 years ago? OK. If you want to base this on what the assistant coaches earn, then call the Rooneys cheap. Fine with me. They are not cheap with their players, however, which seems to be a common perception. They just don't overpay for aging players.

 

[Godsbrother]

The Steelers are at or near the cap every single season yet somehow have the reputation of being cheap.

I never did understand that...

 

[brewer]

I agree with you. Kordell sucked

Not to hijack here, but why exactly was it a slap in the face to Kordell and other similarly talented QBs to suggest that they might be more valuable to a football team in slash or WR role. I think everybody can agree that he was extremely talented, it's just that his talents didn't always lead to him being a good QB.

I'm glad that it will go largely unnoticed in a Jerome Bettis/Steelers thread, but this is what I have been suggesting for Michael Vick for some time. Great athlete, not a great QB. Why is that considered an insult?

 

[Steelers4Life]

First of all I was simply pointing out that he finished third in MVP voting. How is it ok for you to mention he made the pro bowl and than blast me for saying he achieved a higher honor and finished third in MVP voting? I mean, were do you get off?

Whoa! Slow down partner! I didn't blast you, I merely pointing out that his PASSING numbers were not that great in 2001. And is finishing 3rd in MVP voting a higher honor than making the Pro Bowl? At least with making the Pro Bowl you get a trip to Hawaii and play on national TV. What do you get for finishing 3rd in MVP honors? I couldn't tell you who finished 3rd last season.

Let me tell you the game is bigger than stats. We can play with those all day long. You can say that he only threw 14 TD's and ignore the fact he also ran for over 500 yards, 5 TD's and let the team to a 13-3 record.

I am fully aware the game is bigger than stats. I gave Kordell credit for the 13-3 record and commented that he was a great runner. He was not, however, a great passer. If you watched Kordell then you don't need stats to tell you that -- but the stats do bear that out.

Kordell was not perfect and he certainly had his poor times but for the most part he won. He went 46-29 as a starter and took the team to 2 AFC Championship games. It's laughable that you want to use Maddox as an example to put down what Kordell did. Yes, we barely beat the Browns in the playoffs and lost the next week under Maddox which of course means we did not make it as far as we did the previous season with Kordell and that's a good example of how we were better off?

Kordell was horrible in the post season. I used Maddox as a comparision because he was able to bring the team back after being way down in both games -- something Kordell was unable to do in the postseason. That is the point I was trying to make.

Kordell can't lead a team from behind? Do you realize he led us from what I believe is the greatest comeback in Steeler history against the Ravens? Do you know he led 4 comebacks his first year as a starter alone? Lets talk about his two AFC championship games in regards to comebacks. Against Denver in 1997 he played like turd. That's understandable. He was the first ever first year starting QB to have his team in the championship game. Despite his struggles he did in fact lead the Steelers back to 24-21 and put us in position to get the ball back in FG goal range until Elway converted third and long to Sharpe. Against the Patriots he did in fact lead us back into the game after special teams put us in a hole but he crumbled at the end. I'll never level that loss on Kordell.

Kordell had his best season in 1997 and I said that. He looked like he was going to be a phenom and did have some great come from behind victories back then (although that season he had a habit of playing really bad in the 1st half and then doing great in the 2nd half. I remember people joking that they should start Tomczak and bring Kordell in at halftime.)Unfortunately he never improved on that season and in fact regressed. I was at every home game Kordell ever played and I can tell you that once we fell behind the whole stadium felt we were in trouble because he typically did not play well when we were behind (dspite 1997). It wasn't solely his fault that we lost those playoff games (I said that in my post) but he did perform poorly when we were behind, throwing 3 picks in both games. I mean facts are facts.

Other than that it's my turn to play with stats. Kordell finished his career as the Steelers #3 in completion percentage and QB rating , #2 in yards, attempts, completions and TD's and #1 in all relevant QB rusing numbers all the while compiling a outstanding record and leading us to two AFC championship games. Yes he had his up's and downs and it was time for him to go when he did but to denegrate his 2001 season and entire career is not an opinion I support.

I did not denegrate his 2001 season -- I said he he had a decent year. I said he deserved some of the credit for the 13-3 season but he was also blessed with the #3 defense and the #1 rushing team that season. He played well that season but it ws by no means a banner year for a QB.Kordell does rank high on the all-time Steelers list but let's not get carried away here. Neil O'Donnell ranks high on the Steelers all time QB rankings too but I don't thnk he was that great of a QB either. The truth is that other than Terry Bradshaw and possibly Ben Roethlisberger (jury is still out) the Steelers haven't exactly had a history of great QBs.

I think Kordell Stewart was a great athlete but was NOT a very good QB. Other than 1997 and 2001 he pretty much stunk up the joint as a starting QB. If you believe otherwise then that is fine -- that is what this board is all about.

But I am willing to bet that 80% of Steelers fans and 90% of the shark pool will agree with me.

I am one of the 80% and 90%, Stewart was never an elite talent at QB - he had a fragile psyche and got easily flustered when bad luck/unforeseen difficulties caused problems during games, IMO. I watched him play in college at Colorado and it was the same deal back then, too. However, could we please get this thread back on the topic of my alter-ego :11:'s soon-to-be-bestselling tell-all book?

Godsbrother pretty much nailed it.The fact that we embraced Tommy Maddox as a passer goes to show just how disenchanted we were watching Kordell throw the ball for so long. Maddox wasn't anything special, but he had enough of an arm to keep defenses honest and was accurate enough to keep the chains moving against any defense. Kordell was a good QB when the Steelers had the lead, but he froze like a deer in headlights when he needed to win a game with his arm and the other team knew it.

Bill Cowher would've won multiple Super Bowls if he'd have gotten a QB like Roethlisberger earlier in his tenure.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

The Steelers are at or near the cap every single season yet somehow have the reputation of being cheap. I never did understand that...

It's because they're reluctant to throw out these absurd Daniel Snyder-esque contracts to guys. They're a small market team, family owned, with little to moderate ancillary income, in a salary-capped league. They refuse to throw barrels of money at aging vets. As a result there's a backlash that they don't "take care of their own." But they're just prudent.Frankly, I could care less if that's the perception as long as the Steelers continue to average 9-10 wins a year. Their success is in large part due to their frugality and tough decision-making on personnel matters.

 

[menobrown]

Bill Cowher would've won multiple Super Bowls if he'd have gotten a QB like Roethlisberger earlier in his tenure.

I don't see how you can say that when you consider how poorly Roethlisberger played in the SB. I love Big Ben but we won that game in spite of him, not because of him. Cowher would have won mulitiple SB's if he have not been like his mentor, Schotteniemer, and gotten overly conservative in big games. More than anything Cowher just got outcoached in big games except the SB loss to Dallas.I realize most Steelers fans hate Kordell but than most fans always cheer when the backup comes in. I'm willing to bet Kordell is far more hated than O'donnell who basically gave the SB away and than departed in free agency and that makes no sense to me.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

Bill Cowher would've won multiple Super Bowls if he'd have gotten a QB like Roethlisberger earlier in his tenure.

I don't see how you can say that when you consider how poorly Roethlisberger played in the SB. I love Big Ben but we won that game in spite of him, not because of him. Cowher would have won mulitiple SB's if he have not been like his mentor, Schotteniemer, and gotten overly conservative in big games. More than anything Cowher just got outcoached in big games except the SB loss to Dallas.I realize most Steelers fans hate Kordell but than most fans always cheer when the backup comes in. I'm willing to bet Kordell is far more hated than O'donnell who basically gave the SB away and than departed in free agency and that makes no sense to me.

No, I hate O'Donnell too.And it's not just the QB's play IN the SB that matters. Steelers wouldn't have even made it to that game had it not been for Roethlisberger's play in the AFC playoffs. He gave them a chance to play in that game, which in turns gives them the chance to win the game. had Kordell not choked away at least 2 opportunities to go to the SB, Cowher would have had 4 cracks at it instead of two.

 

[Godsbrother]

Bill Cowher would've won multiple Super Bowls if he'd have gotten a QB like Roethlisberger earlier in his tenure.

I don't see how you can say that when you consider how poorly Roethlisberger played in the SB. I love Big Ben but we won that game in spite of him, not because of him. Cowher would have won mulitiple SB's if he have not been like his mentor, Schotteniemer, and gotten overly conservative in big games. More than anything Cowher just got outcoached in big games except the SB loss to Dallas.I realize most Steelers fans hate Kordell but than most fans always cheer when the backup comes in. I'm willing to bet Kordell is far more hated than O'donnell who basically gave the SB away and than departed in free agency and that makes no sense to me.

I don't hate Kordell at all. I think he was a gifted athlete but just not a very good QB. As far Roethlisberger goes it is true he did not have a very good Super Bowl but he was instrumental in getting the Steelers there. He played well down the stretch and excelled in the playoff games leading up to the Super Bowl. If you replace Roethlisberger with Kordell Stewart on the 2005 Steelers I doubt you even get into the playoffs let alone with three road playoff games.

 

[Steelers4Life]

Bill Cowher would've won multiple Super Bowls if he'd have gotten a QB like Roethlisberger earlier in his tenure.

I don't see how you can say that when you consider how poorly Roethlisberger played in the SB. I love Big Ben but we won that game in spite of him, not because of him. Cowher would have won mulitiple SB's if he have not been like his mentor, Schotteniemer, and gotten overly conservative in big games. More than anything Cowher just got outcoached in big games except the SB loss to Dallas.I realize most Steelers fans hate Kordell but than most fans always cheer when the backup comes in. I'm willing to bet Kordell is far more hated than O'donnell who basically gave the SB away and than departed in free agency and that makes no sense to me.

Anyone who follows the Steelers (and a lot who don't) understand how the shortcomings at QB have affected them in the playoffs over the past 10-15 years. Sure, Cowher was a run the ball, defense minded coach. I also think part of that was due to the fact that he NEVER at any point during his time in Pittsburgh had a QB he could trust to open things up. O'Donnell, Miller, Tomczak, Stewart, Maddox... these aren't the kind of QBs who lead high powered aerial attacks, they're the type to lead a ball control, grind it out offenses.Finally, in Cowher's 2nd year with Roethlisberger, he makes it to the playoffs and opens things up, and it was the passing attack that led them through the playoffs to the Super Bowl appearance. Why? Because he finally had a QB in Roethlisberger who he could trust and had the capability to do it. The AFC Championship games against San Diego and Denver, and the first game against the Patriots would've been vastly different with a QB like that under center. Roethlisberger was just a worn out rookie when he lost to the Patriots in the AFCC, so I hardly fault him for that one.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Bill Cowher would've won multiple Super Bowls if he'd have gotten a QB like Roethlisberger earlier in his tenure.

I don't see how you can say that when you consider how poorly Roethlisberger played in the SB. I love Big Ben but we won that game in spite of him, not because of him. Cowher would have won mulitiple SB's if he have not been like his mentor, Schotteniemer, and gotten overly conservative in big games. More than anything Cowher just got outcoached in big games except the SB loss to Dallas.I realize most Steelers fans hate Kordell but than most fans always cheer when the backup comes in. I'm willing to bet Kordell is far more hated than O'donnell who basically gave the SB away and than departed in free agency and that makes no sense to me.

No, I hate O'Donnell too.And it's not just the QB's play IN the SB that matters. Steelers wouldn't have even made it to that game had it not been for Roethlisberger's play in the AFC playoffs. He gave them a chance to play in that game, which in turns gives them the chance to win the game. had Kordell not choked away at least 2 opportunities to go to the SB, Cowher would have had 4 cracks at it instead of two.

Totally agree about Roethlisberger, but there is no way you can say that Stewart choked in the loss to New England following the '01 season. A punt return and blocked FG return gave the Pats a 21-3, and IIRC, Stewart then drove them down the field for two straight touchdowns, to get it to 21-17. Okay, he came up short late, but had the Steelers special teams been ever average, Stewart's play would have been good enough for them to have won the game. And let's face it, the Steelers running game was pretty non-existent in that game, IIRC, so he didn't get much help there. And that Patriots also made the league MVP Kurt Warner look ordinary for much of the Super Bowl shortly thereafter, so I would not hold Stewart accountable for that loss.

 

[BGP]

The rooneys are cheapNice one page book ya got there

Yup, the Steelers are well known for not paying their performers.

They're well known for letting people go who they think are on the downside of their careers. Saying they don't pay their performers is just silly. When Alan Faneca signed his last contract, he was the 2nd highest paid OG in the NFL (at that time). Troy P's new contract either makes him the highest paid safety in the league, or just 2nd to Ed Reed (depending on how it breaks down by year, It's really close and I don't recall the exact details of each ). They pay people who are in their prime. They don't pay people who are on the other side of thirty the same amount that some other stupid team will pay for them only to have them way underperform. It's happened time and time and time again, with maybe 2 or 3 people who in hindsight they should have kept (Rod Woodson, arguably Chad Brown, some others I may be forgetting). The list of "yep, that was the right call not to pay them" is MUCH longer.

and not paying Cowher?

Don't forget that Cowher almost left the Steelers back in 1998. Word was the Lerner family wanted him to be coach and GM of the expansion Browns. And again, it was over money...Cowher wanted more pay.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

Bill Cowher would've won multiple Super Bowls if he'd have gotten a QB like Roethlisberger earlier in his tenure.

I don't see how you can say that when you consider how poorly Roethlisberger played in the SB. I love Big Ben but we won that game in spite of him, not because of him. Cowher would have won mulitiple SB's if he have not been like his mentor, Schotteniemer, and gotten overly conservative in big games. More than anything Cowher just got outcoached in big games except the SB loss to Dallas.

I realize most Steelers fans hate Kordell but than most fans always cheer when the backup comes in. I'm willing to bet Kordell is far more hated than O'donnell who basically gave the SB away and than departed in free agency and that makes no sense to me.

No, I hate O'Donnell too.And it's not just the QB's play IN the SB that matters. Steelers wouldn't have even made it to that game had it not been for Roethlisberger's play in the AFC playoffs. He gave them a chance to play in that game, which in turns gives them the chance to win the game. had Kordell not choked away at least 2 opportunities to go to the SB, Cowher would have had 4 cracks at it instead of two.

Totally agree about Roethlisberger, but there is no way you can say that Stewart choked in the loss to New England following the '01 season. A punt return and blocked FG return gave the Pats a 21-3, and IIRC, Stewart then drove them down the field for two straight touchdowns, to get it to 21-17. Okay, he came up short late, but had the Steelers special teams been ever average, Stewart's play would have been good enough for them to have won the game. And let's face it, the Steelers running game was pretty non-existent in that game, IIRC, so he didn't get much help there. And that Patriots also made the league MVP Kurt Warner look ordinary for much of the Super Bowl shortly thereafter, so I would not hold Stewart accountable for that loss.

The specail teams were atrocious, but Stewart was not good either. He fumbled the ball away in his own end of the field early in the game, and in the 4th quarter, despite their ST woes, the Steelers had the ball at or near midfield twice, down by only 7, with a chance to tie the game. Both possessions, Kordell threw terrible, terrible interceptions.I hold him accountable. Not by himself, but he was a major factor in the loss. It was an AFCC tradition for Kordell.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

The rooneys are cheap

Nice one page book ya got there

Yup, the Steelers are well known for not paying their performers.

They're well known for letting people go who they think are on the downside of their careers.

Saying they don't pay their performers is just silly. When Alan Faneca signed his last contract, he was the 2nd highest paid OG in the NFL (at that time). Troy P's new contract either makes him the highest paid safety in the league, or just 2nd to Ed Reed (depending on how it breaks down by year, It's really close and I don't recall the exact details of each ).

They pay people who are in their prime. They don't pay people who are on the other side of thirty the same amount that some other stupid team will pay for them only to have them way underperform. It's happened time and time and time again, with maybe 2 or 3 people who in hindsight they should have kept (Rod Woodson, arguably Chad Brown, some others I may be forgetting). The list of "yep, that was the right call not to pay them" is MUCH longer.

and not paying Cowher?

Don't forget that Cowher almost left the Steelers back in 1998. Word was the Lerner family wanted him to be coach and GM of the expansion Browns. And again, it was over money...Cowher wanted more pay.

You must have breathed quite a sigh of relief that you dodged that bullet, huh? I mean, you wouldn't want your hometown team to hire someone who settled for being second best? Someone who brought a curse down on the organization for not giving the Lomabrdi trophy back? Someone who will never win anything?You must have felt like Luke Skywalker after he hit the thermal exhaust port in Star Wars when Cowher turned the Browns down......

 

[Ghost Rider]

Bill Cowher would've won multiple Super Bowls if he'd have gotten a QB like Roethlisberger earlier in his tenure.

I don't see how you can say that when you consider how poorly Roethlisberger played in the SB. I love Big Ben but we won that game in spite of him, not because of him. Cowher would have won mulitiple SB's if he have not been like his mentor, Schotteniemer, and gotten overly conservative in big games. More than anything Cowher just got outcoached in big games except the SB loss to Dallas.

I realize most Steelers fans hate Kordell but than most fans always cheer when the backup comes in. I'm willing to bet Kordell is far more hated than O'donnell who basically gave the SB away and than departed in free agency and that makes no sense to me.

No, I hate O'Donnell too.And it's not just the QB's play IN the SB that matters. Steelers wouldn't have even made it to that game had it not been for Roethlisberger's play in the AFC playoffs. He gave them a chance to play in that game, which in turns gives them the chance to win the game. had Kordell not choked away at least 2 opportunities to go to the SB, Cowher would have had 4 cracks at it instead of two.

Totally agree about Roethlisberger, but there is no way you can say that Stewart choked in the loss to New England following the '01 season. A punt return and blocked FG return gave the Pats a 21-3, and IIRC, Stewart then drove them down the field for two straight touchdowns, to get it to 21-17. Okay, he came up short late, but had the Steelers special teams been ever average, Stewart's play would have been good enough for them to have won the game. And let's face it, the Steelers running game was pretty non-existent in that game, IIRC, so he didn't get much help there. And that Patriots also made the league MVP Kurt Warner look ordinary for much of the Super Bowl shortly thereafter, so I would not hold Stewart accountable for that loss.

The specail teams were atrocious, but Stewart was not good either. He fumbled the ball away in his own end of the field early in the game, and in the 4th quarter, despite their ST woes, the Steelers had the ball at or near midfield twice, down by only 7, with a chance to tie the game. Both possessions, Kordell threw terrible, terrible interceptions.I hold him accountable. Not by himself, but he was a major factor in the loss. It was an AFCC tradition for Kordell.

A major factor? I think not. Think of it this way...how many QBs have brought their team back from an 18-point deficit to beat the Patriots since Bill Belichick has been there. As far as I know, Peyton Manning is the only one. And, remember, the Steelers were down by only 7 late because of those two touchdown drives that Stewart engineered in the 3rd quarter following the blocked FG/TD.

If you ask me, the running game and special teams are the most to blame for that loss, but as always, the QB catches the brunt of the blame for a playoff loss.

Now, the loss to the Broncos following the '97 season, Stewart did play poorly in that one, for sure. And my Broncos benefited from it.

 

[BGP]

The rooneys are cheap

Nice one page book ya got there

Yup, the Steelers are well known for not paying their performers.

They're well known for letting people go who they think are on the downside of their careers.

Saying they don't pay their performers is just silly. When Alan Faneca signed his last contract, he was the 2nd highest paid OG in the NFL (at that time). Troy P's new contract either makes him the highest paid safety in the league, or just 2nd to Ed Reed (depending on how it breaks down by year, It's really close and I don't recall the exact details of each ).

They pay people who are in their prime. They don't pay people who are on the other side of thirty the same amount that some other stupid team will pay for them only to have them way underperform. It's happened time and time and time again, with maybe 2 or 3 people who in hindsight they should have kept (Rod Woodson, arguably Chad Brown, some others I may be forgetting). The list of "yep, that was the right call not to pay them" is MUCH longer.

and not paying Cowher?

Don't forget that Cowher almost left the Steelers back in 1998. Word was the Lerner family wanted him to be coach and GM of the expansion Browns. And again, it was over money...Cowher wanted more pay.

You must have breathed quite a sigh of relief that you dodged that bullet, huh? I mean, you wouldn't want your hometown team to hire someone who settled for being second best? Someone who brought a curse down on the organization for not giving the Lomabrdi trophy back? Someone who will never win anything?You must have felt like Luke Skywalker after he hit the thermal exhaust port in Star Wars when Cowher turned the Browns down......

Well it appears the curse has now reversed. A big part of the curse was former players and coaches failing to win anything in Cleveland, and then winning somewhere else. But now that's Pittsburgh's problem. Bill Cowher never win the ring in Pittsburgh, and now he may go somewhere and do it. And it would be fitting for it to happen in Cleveland.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

Bill Cowher would've won multiple Super Bowls if he'd have gotten a QB like Roethlisberger earlier in his tenure.

I don't see how you can say that when you consider how poorly Roethlisberger played in the SB. I love Big Ben but we won that game in spite of him, not because of him. Cowher would have won mulitiple SB's if he have not been like his mentor, Schotteniemer, and gotten overly conservative in big games. More than anything Cowher just got outcoached in big games except the SB loss to Dallas.

I realize most Steelers fans hate Kordell but than most fans always cheer when the backup comes in. I'm willing to bet Kordell is far more hated than O'donnell who basically gave the SB away and than departed in free agency and that makes no sense to me.

No, I hate O'Donnell too.And it's not just the QB's play IN the SB that matters. Steelers wouldn't have even made it to that game had it not been for Roethlisberger's play in the AFC playoffs. He gave them a chance to play in that game, which in turns gives them the chance to win the game. had Kordell not choked away at least 2 opportunities to go to the SB, Cowher would have had 4 cracks at it instead of two.

Totally agree about Roethlisberger, but there is no way you can say that Stewart choked in the loss to New England following the '01 season. A punt return and blocked FG return gave the Pats a 21-3, and IIRC, Stewart then drove them down the field for two straight touchdowns, to get it to 21-17. Okay, he came up short late, but had the Steelers special teams been ever average, Stewart's play would have been good enough for them to have won the game. And let's face it, the Steelers running game was pretty non-existent in that game, IIRC, so he didn't get much help there. And that Patriots also made the league MVP Kurt Warner look ordinary for much of the Super Bowl shortly thereafter, so I would not hold Stewart accountable for that loss.

The specail teams were atrocious, but Stewart was not good either. He fumbled the ball away in his own end of the field early in the game, and in the 4th quarter, despite their ST woes, the Steelers had the ball at or near midfield twice, down by only 7, with a chance to tie the game. Both possessions, Kordell threw terrible, terrible interceptions.I hold him accountable. Not by himself, but he was a major factor in the loss. It was an AFCC tradition for Kordell.

A major factor? I think not. Think of it this way...how many QBs have brought their team back from an 18-point deficit to beat the Patriots since Bill Belichick has been there. As far as I know, Peyton Manning is the only one. And, remember, the Steelers were down by only 7 late because of those two touchdown drives that Stewart engineered in the 3rd quarter following the blocked FG/TD.

If you ask me, the running game and special teams are the most to blame for that loss, but as always, the QB catches the brunt of the blame for a playoff loss.

Now, the loss to the Broncos following the '97 season, Stewart did play poorly in that one, for sure. And my Broncos benefited from it.

Dude, the two picks he threw in the 4th quarter were horrendous. Just terrible throws and throws he shouldn't have made.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

The rooneys are cheap

Nice one page book ya got there

Yup, the Steelers are well known for not paying their performers.

They're well known for letting people go who they think are on the downside of their careers.

Saying they don't pay their performers is just silly. When Alan Faneca signed his last contract, he was the 2nd highest paid OG in the NFL (at that time). Troy P's new contract either makes him the highest paid safety in the league, or just 2nd to Ed Reed (depending on how it breaks down by year, It's really close and I don't recall the exact details of each ).

They pay people who are in their prime. They don't pay people who are on the other side of thirty the same amount that some other stupid team will pay for them only to have them way underperform. It's happened time and time and time again, with maybe 2 or 3 people who in hindsight they should have kept (Rod Woodson, arguably Chad Brown, some others I may be forgetting). The list of "yep, that was the right call not to pay them" is MUCH longer.

and not paying Cowher?

Don't forget that Cowher almost left the Steelers back in 1998. Word was the Lerner family wanted him to be coach and GM of the expansion Browns. And again, it was over money...Cowher wanted more pay.

You must have breathed quite a sigh of relief that you dodged that bullet, huh? I mean, you wouldn't want your hometown team to hire someone who settled for being second best? Someone who brought a curse down on the organization for not giving the Lomabrdi trophy back? Someone who will never win anything?You must have felt like Luke Skywalker after he hit the thermal exhaust port in Star Wars when Cowher turned the Browns down......

Well it appears the curse has now reversed. A big part of the curse was former players and coaches failing to win anything in Cleveland, and then winning somewhere else. But now that's Pittsburgh's problem. Bill Cowher never win the ring in Pittsburgh, and now he may go somewhere and do it. And it would be fitting for it to happen in Cleveland.

So, the curse on the Steelers has been reversed now that he left? You never said Cowher was cursed, it was the Steelers franchise that was cursed. And Cowher already has a ring. Whether you feel it's deserved or not is moot. He HAS one.

Nice backpedal though. "Cowher's a loser... the Steelers stick with him because they're not trying to win. He's not a big-game coach, blah blah blah. Wait, he left the Steelers and could theoretically coach the Browns? Uh, I mean... he WAS cursed, but now the team is cursed, and uh.... he was a Cleveland guy...."

Dude, hang it up. This shtick reeks so badly I can smell it through the screen.

 

[Skinsfansince72]

It's interesting, but when someone puts something in print, we have a tendency to believe it. However, there is no less reason to believe that people are BS'ing when in print than when they are speaking. These "tell all" books have to have something controversial, so that they can be a #1 seller among all books written by a 260 lb running back.

Agreed. And this book was written by a guy who didn't even both to check his facts.For example. Kordell wasn't in a contract year in 2002 and Bettis' injury didn't happen in the game he said it happened in(the time line is off. He's already been soundly refuted on both of these points.). Basically, Bettis is trying to sell books. Why anybody would care what he (or any other ex player) has to say is beyond me. Reading books by dumb ex jocks is a sure fire way to shave points off the ole IQ.

 

[Heinz 57]

1. Kordell Sucked. Apparently 5 years werent enough for some people? I don't hate the guy, at least any more than I hate O'Donnell.

2. Cowher was a good coach, and his record shows that. I agree with some sentiment of people saying he got outcoached in some big games, a few AFC games come to mind. That being said, you gotta love that onsides kick in his first SB, that game was on O'Donnell. And the trickery that won superbowl XL was pretty nice too. When it came to the biggest game of all, I actually think Cowher coached well in both appearances.

3. Bettis, fraud or not, was the 5th all time rusher at the time he retired and still is. What he says about the Rooneys is personal, generally taking the side/s of his friends. Everyone knows football is a business, and mixing friends and business doesn't work. The book would be a interesting read but I agree, alot of which is probably embellished for shock value.

 

[CrossEyed]

The rooneys are cheap

Nice one page book ya got there

Yup, the Steelers are well known for not paying their performers.

They're well known for letting people go who they think are on the downside of their careers.

Saying they don't pay their performers is just silly. When Alan Faneca signed his last contract, he was the 2nd highest paid OG in the NFL (at that time). Troy P's new contract either makes him the highest paid safety in the league, or just 2nd to Ed Reed (depending on how it breaks down by year, It's really close and I don't recall the exact details of each ).

They pay people who are in their prime. They don't pay people who are on the other side of thirty the same amount that some other stupid team will pay for them only to have them way underperform. It's happened time and time and time again, with maybe 2 or 3 people who in hindsight they should have kept (Rod Woodson, arguably Chad Brown, some others I may be forgetting). The list of "yep, that was the right call not to pay them" is MUCH longer.

and not paying Cowher?

Don't forget that Cowher almost left the Steelers back in 1998. Word was the Lerner family wanted him to be coach and GM of the expansion Browns. And again, it was over money...Cowher wanted more pay.

You must have breathed quite a sigh of relief that you dodged that bullet, huh? I mean, you wouldn't want your hometown team to hire someone who settled for being second best? Someone who brought a curse down on the organization for not giving the Lomabrdi trophy back? Someone who will never win anything?You must have felt like Luke Skywalker after he hit the thermal exhaust port in Star Wars when Cowher turned the Browns down......

Well it appears the curse has now reversed. A big part of the curse was former players and coaches failing to win anything in Cleveland, and then winning somewhere else. But now that's Pittsburgh's problem. Bill Cowher never win the ring in Pittsburgh, and now he may go somewhere and do it. And it would be fitting for it to happen in Cleveland.

BGP never fails to entertain.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Bill Cowher would've won multiple Super Bowls if he'd have gotten a QB like Roethlisberger earlier in his tenure.

I don't see how you can say that when you consider how poorly Roethlisberger played in the SB. I love Big Ben but we won that game in spite of him, not because of him. Cowher would have won mulitiple SB's if he have not been like his mentor, Schotteniemer, and gotten overly conservative in big games. More than anything Cowher just got outcoached in big games except the SB loss to Dallas.

I realize most Steelers fans hate Kordell but than most fans always cheer when the backup comes in. I'm willing to bet Kordell is far more hated than O'donnell who basically gave the SB away and than departed in free agency and that makes no sense to me.

No, I hate O'Donnell too.And it's not just the QB's play IN the SB that matters. Steelers wouldn't have even made it to that game had it not been for Roethlisberger's play in the AFC playoffs. He gave them a chance to play in that game, which in turns gives them the chance to win the game. had Kordell not choked away at least 2 opportunities to go to the SB, Cowher would have had 4 cracks at it instead of two.

Totally agree about Roethlisberger, but there is no way you can say that Stewart choked in the loss to New England following the '01 season. A punt return and blocked FG return gave the Pats a 21-3, and IIRC, Stewart then drove them down the field for two straight touchdowns, to get it to 21-17. Okay, he came up short late, but had the Steelers special teams been ever average, Stewart's play would have been good enough for them to have won the game. And let's face it, the Steelers running game was pretty non-existent in that game, IIRC, so he didn't get much help there. And that Patriots also made the league MVP Kurt Warner look ordinary for much of the Super Bowl shortly thereafter, so I would not hold Stewart accountable for that loss.

The specail teams were atrocious, but Stewart was not good either. He fumbled the ball away in his own end of the field early in the game, and in the 4th quarter, despite their ST woes, the Steelers had the ball at or near midfield twice, down by only 7, with a chance to tie the game. Both possessions, Kordell threw terrible, terrible interceptions.I hold him accountable. Not by himself, but he was a major factor in the loss. It was an AFCC tradition for Kordell.

A major factor? I think not. Think of it this way...how many QBs have brought their team back from an 18-point deficit to beat the Patriots since Bill Belichick has been there. As far as I know, Peyton Manning is the only one. And, remember, the Steelers were down by only 7 late because of those two touchdown drives that Stewart engineered in the 3rd quarter following the blocked FG/TD.

If you ask me, the running game and special teams are the most to blame for that loss, but as always, the QB catches the brunt of the blame for a playoff loss.

Now, the loss to the Broncos following the '97 season, Stewart did play poorly in that one, for sure. And my Broncos benefited from it.

Dude, the two picks he threw in the 4th quarter were horrendous. Just terrible throws and throws he shouldn't have made.

I agree, but are you seriously telling me that, because of those two throws, that he is just as accountable for that loss as special teams (2 awful TDs allowed) and the running game (pretty ineffective)?

 

[AussieOyOyOy]

I think Kordell was pretty darned close to being a very good QB. He had a good deal of the skill set required to do so. Obviously, he had a strong arm and was a very good runner (slightly below the Vick/Young level). I also think his football brain was much better than most believe. He'd go through his progressions on normal plays and he'd make the "hot" reads on blitzes. And I think his accuracy was NFL-caliber. Certainly not Steve Young-like, but he could put the ball on a receiver if there was an open passing lane.

I think his ball trajectory is what killed him. He could throw a frozen rope with the best of them. And he was decent at putting some air underneath the ball on the long throws. The intermediate throws are what really hurt him. He just didn't have the "a little bit of air, but still a rocket" throw that guys like Jim Everett and Drew Bledsoe perfected. On the intermediate stuff, Stewart would often either throw it too low, and allow the first level to swipe at the ball, or he'd put too much air under it and allow the second level to come up and make a play on the ball.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

Bill Cowher would've won multiple Super Bowls if he'd have gotten a QB like Roethlisberger earlier in his tenure.

I don't see how you can say that when you consider how poorly Roethlisberger played in the SB. I love Big Ben but we won that game in spite of him, not because of him. Cowher would have won mulitiple SB's if he have not been like his mentor, Schotteniemer, and gotten overly conservative in big games. More than anything Cowher just got outcoached in big games except the SB loss to Dallas.

I realize most Steelers fans hate Kordell but than most fans always cheer when the backup comes in. I'm willing to bet Kordell is far more hated than O'donnell who basically gave the SB away and than departed in free agency and that makes no sense to me.

No, I hate O'Donnell too.And it's not just the QB's play IN the SB that matters. Steelers wouldn't have even made it to that game had it not been for Roethlisberger's play in the AFC playoffs. He gave them a chance to play in that game, which in turns gives them the chance to win the game. had Kordell not choked away at least 2 opportunities to go to the SB, Cowher would have had 4 cracks at it instead of two.

Totally agree about Roethlisberger, but there is no way you can say that Stewart choked in the loss to New England following the '01 season. A punt return and blocked FG return gave the Pats a 21-3, and IIRC, Stewart then drove them down the field for two straight touchdowns, to get it to 21-17. Okay, he came up short late, but had the Steelers special teams been ever average, Stewart's play would have been good enough for them to have won the game. And let's face it, the Steelers running game was pretty non-existent in that game, IIRC, so he didn't get much help there. And that Patriots also made the league MVP Kurt Warner look ordinary for much of the Super Bowl shortly thereafter, so I would not hold Stewart accountable for that loss.

The specail teams were atrocious, but Stewart was not good either. He fumbled the ball away in his own end of the field early in the game, and in the 4th quarter, despite their ST woes, the Steelers had the ball at or near midfield twice, down by only 7, with a chance to tie the game. Both possessions, Kordell threw terrible, terrible interceptions.I hold him accountable. Not by himself, but he was a major factor in the loss. It was an AFCC tradition for Kordell.

A major factor? I think not. Think of it this way...how many QBs have brought their team back from an 18-point deficit to beat the Patriots since Bill Belichick has been there. As far as I know, Peyton Manning is the only one. And, remember, the Steelers were down by only 7 late because of those two touchdown drives that Stewart engineered in the 3rd quarter following the blocked FG/TD.

If you ask me, the running game and special teams are the most to blame for that loss, but as always, the QB catches the brunt of the blame for a playoff loss.

Now, the loss to the Broncos following the '97 season, Stewart did play poorly in that one, for sure. And my Broncos benefited from it.

Dude, the two picks he threw in the 4th quarter were horrendous. Just terrible throws and throws he shouldn't have made.

I agree, but are you seriously telling me that, because of those two throws, that he is just as accountable for that loss as special teams (2 awful TDs allowed) and the running game (pretty ineffective)?

The special teams were the worst facet of the team that day for sure, but to say Kordell didn't choke with the game on the line is being too kind. It speaks to my point that when team knew he had to pass, he was unable to find seams in the defense and more often than not, would commit a bad turnover (or two) that cost the Steelers a shot at the game.

 

[Pittsburgh United]

Well it appears the curse has now reversed. A big part of the curse was former players and coaches failing to win anything in Cleveland, and then winning somewhere else. But now that's Pittsburgh's problem. Bill Cowher never win the ring in Pittsburgh, and now he may go somewhere and do it. And it would be fitting for it to happen in Cleveland.

WTF???

 

[Godsbrother]

The special teams were the worst facet of the team that day for sure, but to say Kordell didn't choke with the game on the line is being too kind. It speaks to my point that when team knew he had to pass, he was unable to find seams in the defense and more often than not, would commit a bad turnover (or two) that cost the Steelers a shot at the game.

Agree 100%. Special Teams is what lost that game but Kordell certainly did not play well and there was ample time to mount a comeback. The two 4th quarter picks killed any chance of that. In any case that is ancient history. The Kordell Stewart era was a frustrating time for Steelers fans. One week the guy played like a world beater and the next two weeks it looked like he never played QB. It wasn't that he was terrible -- he was just so inconsistent.

 

[Tex Goldstein]

Well it appears the curse has now reversed. A big part of the curse was former players and coaches failing to win anything in Cleveland, and then winning somewhere else. But now that's Pittsburgh's problem. Bill Cowher never win the ring in Pittsburgh, and now he may go somewhere and do it. And it would be fitting for it to happen in Cleveland.

WTF???

Guess this BGP person slept through 2005. Or he's been drinking more Gentleman Jack than is good for a person to imbibe before going on a message board and displaying ignorance of the last 2 years. "Bill Cowher never win the ring" definitely sounds like a guy with a few too many under his wings.

 

[Pittsburgh United]

Maybe he's talking about some ring that none of us have considered. Wedding ring? #### ring? Ring of fire? Ring around the rosey? Little Orphan Annie Decoder Ring? I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and let him try to explain this away. If his answer is unsatisfactory, he's gettin' sigged.

 

[Ghost Rider]

The special teams were the worst facet of the team that day for sure, but to say Kordell didn't choke with the game on the line is being too kind. It speaks to my point that when team knew he had to pass, he was unable to find seams in the defense and more often than not, would commit a bad turnover (or two) that cost the Steelers a shot at the game.

So, before last January, would you have called Peyton Manning a choker since he had NEVER brought his team from behind to win a game in the playoffs until the comeback win over the Patriots in the AFC title game? And I agree with you in spirit about Stewart. He was definitely not a QB who was going to put a team on his back and overcome a deficit at the end (although, interestingly, many Steelers fans have often said he would have in the loss to the Broncos in '97, had Elway not completed that pass to Sharpe), but I just do not think it is fair to call him a choker in a game where two other major parts of the team sucked and were much greater contributers to the deficit that the team was faced with in the waning minutes of the game. It is like saying, "Okay, Kordell, special teams and the running game have let you down all day, but we are only down by 7, so either win the game for us or the loss is your fault?" Not really fair, is it?