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Big Ten Basketball 2022/2023 - Return to Power (2 Viewers)

I can't believe y'all are complaining about that last play. Refs didn't call #### all game. This was a football game. But at the end they are going to start making calls? Please.And Craft's foul was flagrant.
So you call out the people complaining about calls, then complain about a call? :popcorn:
I didn't complain. I was just pointing out a fact. There were terrible calls all night (see, Craft getting 3 points after the shot clock expired). Seems silly to complain about one questionable one just because it was at the end of the game.Great game. M had to have it. Glad they won.
Yep, I thought it was a fun, well contested, game all around.If we want to nitpick calls we can go in circles all day. I personally think Craft was fouled on the last two possessions and I think replay supports that. That said, I'm not complaining that they were not called, it's just how the game went. There were calls/non calls all game. If this was in the NCAA tournament, I'd be pretty upset though. And I'm not sure how anyone can think Craft's foul was flagrant...he clearly hit the forearm of the offensive player going for the ball before hitting him in the head. Sure, it was a hard foul, but how many times do we see refs not call patsy attempts in a situation just like that? It's not like the ball was down by his waist, it was up higher.
We need a lot more Bobcat10 in this thread. :thumbup:
:goodposting:
 
I can't believe y'all are complaining about that last play. Refs didn't call #### all game. This was a football game. But at the end they are going to start making calls? Please.And Craft's foul was flagrant.
So you call out the people complaining about calls, then complain about a call? :popcorn:
I didn't complain. I was just pointing out a fact. There were terrible calls all night (see, Craft getting 3 points after the shot clock expired). Seems silly to complain about one questionable one just because it was at the end of the game.Great game. M had to have it. Glad they won.
Yep, I thought it was a fun, well contested, game all around.If we want to nitpick calls we can go in circles all day. I personally think Craft was fouled on the last two possessions and I think replay supports that. That said, I'm not complaining that they were not called, it's just how the game went. There were calls/non calls all game. If this was in the NCAA tournament, I'd be pretty upset though. And I'm not sure how anyone can think Craft's foul was flagrant...he clearly hit the forearm of the offensive player going for the ball before hitting him in the head. Sure, it was a hard foul, but how many times do we see refs not call patsy attempts in a situation just like that? It's not like the ball was down by his waist, it was up higher.
Sounds like a call nitpicker to me. Like you said, we could go in circles. There were good calls, good non-calls, and calls that shouldn't have been made. The referees were not perfect throughout which is why they should be commended by not deciding the game at the end with their whistles. This isn't Pac-10 hoops here. It's big boy basketball. If they would have called a foul on that last play Michigan fans would have been howling about it, and they would have a decent argument based on how the rest of the game was called.I disagree with you on your other opinions as well. Burke's block on Craft came from behind him but was clean as hell. And I saw that potentially flagrant foul by Craft a whole lot differently than you did.
I thought Burke got alot of wrist. That is the one though that I'd not put up a big fight about. I could be wrong...I don't recall that replay as much as the other two. It was a helluva play by Burke to even get in that position. Craft was clearly fouled on the last play, but like we've said, it just wasn't called and that's basically how the game was called. I'm fine with that. I just wouldn't want a season to end that way...nor would anyone else in here. Craft put himself in a good position to draw a foul or hit the shot...one of them happened. No call, pack up, get the hell out of dodge, move onto the next game.I agree we differ greatly on the flagrant. Maybe as Commish mentioned, it's the rule definition...and I don't even know how it's defined. I just think there was clearly intent to foul, and he did rake the raised arm first, but it sure didn't look like Craft was head hunting. It wasn't "dirty". If that's what you guys are implying, we're even further apart and should consider this discussion over :lmao:
 
I agree we differ greatly on the flagrant. Maybe as Commish mentioned, it's the rule definition...and I don't even know how it's defined. I just think there was clearly intent to foul, and he did rake the raised arm first, but it sure didn't look like Craft was head hunting. It wasn't "dirty". If that's what you guys are implying, we're even further apart and should consider this discussion over :lmao:
The rule is that hitting him in the head is a flagrant foul. Period. Intent doesn't matter. I completely agree that it wasn't dirty and that the rule might need some review, but if it's a rule it has to be called. I think it's hilarious that you're arguing that you're "not sure how anyone can think Craft's foul was flagrant" and you admittedly don't even know the rule that makes it a flagrant.
 
I agree we differ greatly on the flagrant. Maybe as Commish mentioned, it's the rule definition...and I don't even know how it's defined. I just think there was clearly intent to foul, and he did rake the raised arm first, but it sure didn't look like Craft was head hunting. It wasn't "dirty". If that's what you guys are implying, we're even further apart and should consider this discussion over :lmao:
The rule is that hitting him in the head is a flagrant foul. Period. Intent doesn't matter. I completely agree that it wasn't dirty and that the rule might need some review, but if it's a rule it has to be called. I think it's hilarious that you're arguing that you're "not sure how anyone can think Craft's foul was flagrant" and you admittedly don't even know the rule that makes it a flagrant.
There are dozens of violations that occur in every game that aren't called. By the letter of the rule (as dumb as it is), the Craft foul was a flagrant. But the refs used their discretion not to enforce it. From what I've read, most people agree with their choice.
 
I haven't watched a lot of M games this year... is burying 14 3's the norm? That was unreal.

BTW... At least on TV... the crowd at Chrysler is still pretty lame by B1G standards.
We live and die with our guard play. Worried come tourney time. I think mcgarry may be the x factor.
Why are you worried? UM has arguably the best guard combo in the country. Alao, it is odd that people are praising Craft for his incredible defensive game against Burke when Trey scored 18 points, shot 50%, 8 assists and 2 turnovers....basically his average game.
Stats lie, craft defended Burke well. I am worried because if our guards don't ball we don't have a fall back option. Usually one tough game on way to title, need others to step up in that game.
So you're worried that Burke, Hardaway, GRIII, and Stauskas all lay an egg all at the same time. I'm not sure ANY team could survive four of their stars laying an egg.
I am worried about relying on robinson and staukas. It's why I think mcgary is the x. Volume nights from both Hardaway and Burke, need someone to step up. I don't trust robinson and staukas when that happens. Horford too. Getting Morgan back and going could help though, yes.
You do realize that fans of pretty much every other NCAA team would love to have your worries for this one.
Sure, but to win a title we have to be better than everyone... Not pretty much everyone.
 
Solid win by MSU tonight. Looks like we may have dodged another bullet with Keith's shoulder :fingerscrossed:Payne becoming a force inside and outside the paint. Gary Harris is looking like a Freshman of the Year candidate.Probably need to win at least two of the next three to keep pace at the top.

 
I agree we differ greatly on the flagrant. Maybe as Commish mentioned, it's the rule definition...and I don't even know how it's defined. I just think there was clearly intent to foul, and he did rake the raised arm first, but it sure didn't look like Craft was head hunting. It wasn't "dirty". If that's what you guys are implying, we're even further apart and should consider this discussion over :lmao:
The rule is that hitting him in the head is a flagrant foul. Period. Intent doesn't matter. I completely agree that it wasn't dirty and that the rule might need some review, but if it's a rule it has to be called. I think it's hilarious that you're arguing that you're "not sure how anyone can think Craft's foul was flagrant" and you admittedly don't even know the rule that makes it a flagrant.
I'd rather state I'm sure of the exact rule (yet have an idea of it) than state something completely erroneous that undoubtedly other people here will believe. "Intent" was removed from the rule a year or two ago, but that's the only thing you've accomplished here.

I can post the rule if you'd like, or link you to the entire rulebook. Just give another holla.

 
Forgot to mention before....I kinda like the yellow shoe / yellow sock look. :unsure: I really do hope ALL teams, NBA and NCAA, stop wearing that stupid color on color jersey where the name and sometimes the number are impossible to see. How does a person get a design that is so bad approved?

 
Forgot to mention before....I kinda like the yellow shoe / yellow sock look. :unsure: I really do hope ALL teams, NBA and NCAA, stop wearing that stupid color on color jersey where the name and sometimes the number are impossible to see. How does a person get a design that is so bad approved?
It is actually against NCAA rules to have the same color numbers and jerseys.
 
Forgot to mention before....I kinda like the yellow shoe / yellow sock look. :unsure: I really do hope ALL teams, NBA and NCAA, stop wearing that stupid color on color jersey where the name and sometimes the number are impossible to see. How does a person get a design that is so bad approved?
It is actually against NCAA rules to have the same color numbers and jerseys.
I missed that when I just skimmed the rulebook. Thank goodness, or it would look like the name. It's still too close. Or you're just making rules up........
 
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Sure, but to win a title we have to be better than everyone... Not pretty much everyone.
The balance that Michigan has game in and game out is unusual. Lots of championships are won by the star player getting a hot hand.
Am I the only one that thinks our balance feeds off Burke and Hardaway? If they are off others don't pick it up. From what I have seen anyway.
 
I would be shocked if Indiana, Michigan and Duke do not end up #1, #2 and #3. Usually polls this early are not all that accurate, but those teams are clearly the best and should remain so. If I was going to pick a 4th number 1 seed, I would go with a bit of a surprise and go Butler. OSU loses tonight to Duke, BTW.
Jon, take a deep breath buddy. I like your enthusiasm, but we're not even out of November yet.
:goodposting: Around this time last year, Michigan State looked like a bubble team. They ended up a No. 1 seed.Around this time two years ago, Michigan State looked like a potential title contender. They ended up a bubble team.Long, long, long, long, long way to go.
It is now Febuary.....Indiana, Michigan and Duke are still three best teams in the country.
 
I would be shocked if Indiana, Michigan and Duke do not end up #1, #2 and #3. Usually polls this early are not all that accurate, but those teams are clearly the best and should remain so. If I was going to pick a 4th number 1 seed, I would go with a bit of a surprise and go Butler. OSU loses tonight to Duke, BTW.
Jon, take a deep breath buddy. I like your enthusiasm, but we're not even out of November yet.
:goodposting: Around this time last year, Michigan State looked like a bubble team. They ended up a No. 1 seed.Around this time two years ago, Michigan State looked like a potential title contender. They ended up a bubble team.Long, long, long, long, long way to go.
It is now Febuary.....Indiana, Michigan and Duke are still three best teams in the country.
Long, long, long, way to go.
 
Sure, but to win a title we have to be better than everyone... Not pretty much everyone.
To win the title you have to have the best match ups and a little luck. You only have to be better than the teams you play. You don't have to be better than everyone.
 
It is now Febuary.....Indiana, Michigan and Duke are still three best teams in the country.
"best" teams don't get blown out and embarrassed like Duke did.
Considering the other choices.....Kansas losing to a terrible TCU team. Florida getting blown out a mediocre Arkansas team. A blowout from a top 10 team is much more excusable. Michigan and Indiana are the best two teams. The only thing stopping them from getting number 1 seeds is both teams have 4 or 5 brutal games remaining not even counting the B1G tourney which will add a couple more.
 
It is now Febuary.....Indiana, Michigan and Duke are still three best teams in the country.
"best" teams don't get blown out and embarrassed like Duke did.
Considering the other choices.....Kansas losing to a terrible TCU team. Florida getting blown out a mediocre Arkansas team. A blowout from a top 10 team is much more excusable. Michigan and Indiana are the best two teams. The only thing stopping them from getting number 1 seeds is both teams have 4 or 5 brutal games remaining not even counting the B1G tourney which will add a couple more.
I'd venture to say that, while it won't happen, IU, UM, MSU, OSU and maybe even WISC are each worthy of a 1-4 seed in the NCAA tourney. However, since they beat up on each other all year (and in the B1G tourney), their records won't justify it. For that reason, I wouldn't at all be surprised to see those lower seeded pull off some upsets and possibly all get to the Elite 8 (unless they end up facing each other). I'd kill for an all B1G Final Four :D
 
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It is now Febuary.....Indiana, Michigan and Duke are still three best teams in the country.
"best" teams don't get blown out and embarrassed like Duke did.
Considering the other choices.....Kansas losing to a terrible TCU team. Florida getting blown out a mediocre Arkansas team. A blowout from a top 10 team is much more excusable. Michigan and Indiana are the best two teams. The only thing stopping them from getting number 1 seeds is both teams have 4 or 5 brutal games remaining not even counting the B1G tourney which will add a couple more.
Rankings mean little to me...especially during the regular season. I'll point out Miami wasn't a "top 10 team" when they destroyed Duke. It's not WHO they lost to IMO. It's how they lost and what the team looked like during the loss. It was brutal. The "best" teams don't allow that to happen or look that way while it's happening IMO.
 
It is now Febuary.....Indiana, Michigan and Duke are still three best teams in the country.
"best" teams don't get blown out and embarrassed like Duke did.
Considering the other choices.....Kansas losing to a terrible TCU team. Florida getting blown out a mediocre Arkansas team. A blowout from a top 10 team is much more excusable. Michigan and Indiana are the best two teams. The only thing stopping them from getting number 1 seeds is both teams have 4 or 5 brutal games remaining not even counting the B1G tourney which will add a couple more.
Rankings mean little to me...especially during the regular season. I'll point out Miami wasn't a "top 10 team" when they destroyed Duke. It's not WHO they lost to IMO. It's how they lost and what the team looked like during the loss. It was brutal. The "best" teams don't allow that to happen or look that way while it's happening IMO.
Will make a huge difference come tourny time. The #1 seed between Michigan and Indiana will play regional finals in Indy. The #2 seed may be in Los Angelas or Texas.
 
It is now Febuary.....Indiana, Michigan and Duke are still three best teams in the country.
"best" teams don't get blown out and embarrassed like Duke did.
Considering the other choices.....Kansas losing to a terrible TCU team. Florida getting blown out a mediocre Arkansas team. A blowout from a top 10 team is much more excusable. Michigan and Indiana are the best two teams. The only thing stopping them from getting number 1 seeds is both teams have 4 or 5 brutal games remaining not even counting the B1G tourney which will add a couple more.
Rankings mean little to me...especially during the regular season. I'll point out Miami wasn't a "top 10 team" when they destroyed Duke. It's not WHO they lost to IMO. It's how they lost and what the team looked like during the loss. It was brutal. The "best" teams don't allow that to happen or look that way while it's happening IMO.
Every team is bound to have a down night or two. Happens to the "best" of them every year.
 
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Sure, but to win a title we have to be better than everyone... Not pretty much everyone.
To win the title you have to have the best match ups and a little luck. You only have to be better than the teams you play. You don't have to be better than everyone.
Strongly disagree, but if there isn't a great team then yeah matchups play a bigger role.
With which part? That you have to be better than the teams you play? That you have to have luck?
 
It is now Febuary.....Indiana, Michigan and Duke are still three best teams in the country.
"best" teams don't get blown out and embarrassed like Duke did.
Considering the other choices.....Kansas losing to a terrible TCU team. Florida getting blown out a mediocre Arkansas team. A blowout from a top 10 team is much more excusable. Michigan and Indiana are the best two teams. The only thing stopping them from getting number 1 seeds is both teams have 4 or 5 brutal games remaining not even counting the B1G tourney which will add a couple more.
Rankings mean little to me...especially during the regular season. I'll point out Miami wasn't a "top 10 team" when they destroyed Duke. It's not WHO they lost to IMO. It's how they lost and what the team looked like during the loss. It was brutal. The "best" teams don't allow that to happen or look that way while it's happening IMO.
Every team is bound to have a down night or two. Happens to the "best" of them every year.
That was beyond "down" imo. We'll see where Duke's at today. If they win by 15, perhaps they put that game behind them....we'll see.
 
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It is now Febuary.....Indiana, Michigan and Duke are still three best teams in the country.
"best" teams don't get blown out and embarrassed like Duke did.
Considering the other choices.....Kansas losing to a terrible TCU team. Florida getting blown out a mediocre Arkansas team. A blowout from a top 10 team is much more excusable. Michigan and Indiana are the best two teams. The only thing stopping them from getting number 1 seeds is both teams have 4 or 5 brutal games remaining not even counting the B1G tourney which will add a couple more.
Rankings mean little to me...especially during the regular season. I'll point out Miami wasn't a "top 10 team" when they destroyed Duke. It's not WHO they lost to IMO. It's how they lost and what the team looked like during the loss. It was brutal. The "best" teams don't allow that to happen or look that way while it's happening IMO.
Every team is bound to have a down night or two. Happens to the "best" of them every year.
That was beyond "down" imo. We'll see where Duke's at today. If they win by 15, perhaps they put that game behind them....we'll see.
Ryan Kelly is hugely important to Duke. If he's back and healthy, they are a top 5 team.
 
It is now Febuary.....Indiana, Michigan and Duke are still three best teams in the country.
"best" teams don't get blown out and embarrassed like Duke did.
Considering the other choices.....Kansas losing to a terrible TCU team. Florida getting blown out a mediocre Arkansas team. A blowout from a top 10 team is much more excusable. Michigan and Indiana are the best two teams. The only thing stopping them from getting number 1 seeds is both teams have 4 or 5 brutal games remaining not even counting the B1G tourney which will add a couple more.
Rankings mean little to me...especially during the regular season. I'll point out Miami wasn't a "top 10 team" when they destroyed Duke. It's not WHO they lost to IMO. It's how they lost and what the team looked like during the loss. It was brutal. The "best" teams don't allow that to happen or look that way while it's happening IMO.
Every team is bound to have a down night or two. Happens to the "best" of them every year.
That was beyond "down" imo. We'll see where Duke's at today. If they win by 15, perhaps they put that game behind them....we'll see.
Ryan Kelly is hugely important to Duke. If he's back and healthy, they are a top 5 team.
There's no question he's important to the team. He wouldn't made much of a difference in the beatdown. Both Duke and NCSU are going to be shorthanded. Duke has some depth to cover for Kelly. NCSU does not...they have a freshman running the show. We'll see.
 
Free throws will be the end of the Badgers in the tournament. It's a shame.
Could be. Although maybe last night's performance, 13/14 in overtime, is just what they need to 'get right.' Also, I can't believe Sam Dekker logs so few minutes on this team. Cold-blooded scorer. I know Ryan doesn't like to play Freshman, but he's so clearly better on the offensive end than anyone else, outside of maybe Brust at times. It's a shame he doesn't get at least 25 minutes a game.
 
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Sure, but to win a title we have to be better than everyone... Not pretty much everyone.
To win the title you have to have the best match ups and a little luck. You only have to be better than the teams you play. You don't have to be better than everyone.
Strongly disagree, but if there isn't a great team then yeah matchups play a bigger role.
With which part? That you have to be better than the teams you play? That you have to have luck?
Great teams win regardless of opponent and matchups.
 
Sure, but to win a title we have to be better than everyone... Not pretty much everyone.
To win the title you have to have the best match ups and a little luck. You only have to be better than the teams you play. You don't have to be better than everyone.
Strongly disagree, but if there isn't a great team then yeah matchups play a bigger role.
With which part? That you have to be better than the teams you play? That you have to have luck?
Great teams win regardless of opponent and matchups.
I'm not sure this is true. As pointed out before, anyone can have an off day and lose. But this is a different conversation than what I posted above. Just wondering which part you strongly disagree with.
 
It is now Febuary.....Indiana, Michigan and Duke are still three best teams in the country.
"best" teams don't get blown out and embarrassed like Duke did.
Considering the other choices.....Kansas losing to a terrible TCU team. Florida getting blown out a mediocre Arkansas team. A blowout from a top 10 team is much more excusable. Michigan and Indiana are the best two teams. The only thing stopping them from getting number 1 seeds is both teams have 4 or 5 brutal games remaining not even counting the B1G tourney which will add a couple more.
I'd venture to say that, while it won't happen, IU, UM, MSU, OSU and maybe even WISC are each worthy of a 1-4 seed in the NCAA tourney. However, since they beat up on each other all year (and in the B1G tourney), their records won't justify it. For that reason, I wouldn't at all be surprised to see those lower seeded pull off some upsets and possibly all get to the Elite 8 (unless they end up facing each other). I'd kill for an all B1G Final Four :D
A 4th seed for Bucky is really pushing it. I'd love to see them get a 6th seed, which is feasible, and more realistic. They have a somewhat favorable schedule left. I would predict that they win: @NW, Neb, Purdue, @ PSU. That they lose: Mich, @ MSU. OSU and @ MN are key games for them to move up. I expect them to have 11 losses going into the NCAA tourney = a 6th seed would be a gift.
Free throws will be the end of the Badgers in the tournament. It's a shame.
Could be. Although maybe last night's performance, 13/14 in overtime, is just what they need to 'get right.' Also, I can't believe Sam Dekker logs so few minutes on this team. Cold-blooded scorer. I know Ryan doesn't like to play Freshman, but he's so clearly better on the offensive end than anyone else, outside of maybe Brust at times. It's a shame he doesn't get at least 25 minutes a game.
Sam's a great kid and gives the team great energy when he's in. I'm also hoping he sees more time, but he needs to get stronger defensively before Bo likes him as much as I do.
 
Sure, but to win a title we have to be better than everyone... Not pretty much everyone.
To win the title you have to have the best match ups and a little luck. You only have to be better than the teams you play. You don't have to be better than everyone.
Strongly disagree, but if there isn't a great team then yeah matchups play a bigger role.
With which part? That you have to be better than the teams you play? That you have to have luck?
Great teams win regardless of opponent and matchups.
I'm not sure this is true. As pointed out before, anyone can have an off day and lose. But this is a different conversation than what I posted above. Just wondering which part you strongly disagree with.
That you need good matchups and luck. Great teams don't need that, if there are no great teams or they have a bad night on the wrong night then it comes down to matchups and luck more than before. Given our strengths and weaknesses i don't think we are great and will be more reliant on matchups and luck than others.
 
Hate to say this, but I hope the Gophers lose out so that the Gophers will rid themselves of Tubby. I'm afraid the game passed him by 10 years ago. He just seems so disinterested these days. On top of that, he's been nothing more than a mediocre recruiter, has lost more players whom have transferred out of his program in his short tenure in MN than any major D1 program I can recall, and is an extremely poor coach when it comes to making in game adjustments. Time for some fresh blood in Minnesota.

 
Hate to say this, but I hope the Gophers lose out so that the Gophers will rid themselves of Tubby. I'm afraid the game passed him by 10 years ago. He just seems so disinterested these days. On top of that, he's been nothing more than a mediocre recruiter, has lost more players whom have transferred out of his program in his short tenure in MN than any major D1 program I can recall, and is an extremely poor coach when it comes to making in game adjustments. Time for some fresh blood in Minnesota.
Delusional. Especially the mediocre recruiter part.Every time I watch the Gophers play I marvel at the fact that someone convinced all those freakish athletes to go to Minnesota.
 
Hate to say this, but I hope the Gophers lose out so that the Gophers will rid themselves of Tubby. I'm afraid the game passed him by 10 years ago. He just seems so disinterested these days. On top of that, he's been nothing more than a mediocre recruiter, has lost more players whom have transferred out of his program in his short tenure in MN than any major D1 program I can recall, and is an extremely poor coach when it comes to making in game adjustments. Time for some fresh blood in Minnesota.
Agreed. Very nice man (I've met him, back in the day when he was with Kentucky), but he really hasn't done much of anything of significance since 2005.Pretty sure Izzo put in a good word for Tubby in getting the Minny job, they go back to that year Izzo beat Tubby (2005) in the Tournament. They pretty much ran him outta town a couple years later because of similar circumstances as is currently occurring in Minny.Incidently, there are some pretty close coaching ties between Minny and MSU in recent history, as Tubby's predecessor, Dan Monson is the son of Don Monson, longtime asst coach and friend of Jud Heathcote.
 
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Hate to say this, but I hope the Gophers lose out so that the Gophers will rid themselves of Tubby. I'm afraid the game passed him by 10 years ago. He just seems so disinterested these days. On top of that, he's been nothing more than a mediocre recruiter, has lost more players whom have transferred out of his program in his short tenure in MN than any major D1 program I can recall, and is an extremely poor coach when it comes to making in game adjustments. Time for some fresh blood in Minnesota.
Delusional. Especially the mediocre recruiter part.Every time I watch the Gophers play I marvel at the fact that someone convinced all those freakish athletes to go to Minnesota.
All those freakish athletes? You mean all two of them? And the only two that have been freakish in Tubby's six year tenure at Minnesota? Regardless, freakish athletes do not always make good basketball players (see Rodney Williams) and definitely don't define how good of a recruiter you are. Spin it any way you want, but good recruiter Tubby is not.
 
Sure, but to win a title we have to be better than everyone... Not pretty much everyone.
To win the title you have to have the best match ups and a little luck. You only have to be better than the teams you play. You don't have to be better than everyone.
Strongly disagree, but if there isn't a great team then yeah matchups play a bigger role.
With which part? That you have to be better than the teams you play? That you have to have luck?
Great teams win regardless of opponent and matchups.
I'm not sure this is true. As pointed out before, anyone can have an off day and lose. But this is a different conversation than what I posted above. Just wondering which part you strongly disagree with.
That you need good matchups and luck. Great teams don't need that, if there are no great teams or they have a bad night on the wrong night then it comes down to matchups and luck more than before. Given our strengths and weaknesses i don't think we are great and will be more reliant on matchups and luck than others.
We'll have to agree to disagree. The last "great" unbeatable team that I can remember is UNLV and they lost to Duke :shrug:
 
Hate to say this, but I hope the Gophers lose out so that the Gophers will rid themselves of Tubby. I'm afraid the game passed him by 10 years ago. He just seems so disinterested these days. On top of that, he's been nothing more than a mediocre recruiter, has lost more players whom have transferred out of his program in his short tenure in MN than any major D1 program I can recall, and is an extremely poor coach when it comes to making in game adjustments. Time for some fresh blood in Minnesota.
Delusional. Especially the mediocre recruiter part.Every time I watch the Gophers play I marvel at the fact that someone convinced all those freakish athletes to go to Minnesota.
All those freakish athletes? You mean all two of them? And the only two that have been freakish in Tubby's six year tenure at Minnesota? Regardless, freakish athletes do not always make good basketball players (see Rodney Williams) and definitely don't define how good of a recruiter you are. Spin it any way you want, but good recruiter Tubby is not.
So Tubby's a mediocre recruiter, terrible in-game coach and totally disinterested in his job, yet Minnesota is 17-6, in the top 25 in the country, and in the top half of the best conference in the country.What exactly do you expect from Minnesota basketball?
 
Sure, but to win a title we have to be better than everyone... Not pretty much everyone.
To win the title you have to have the best match ups and a little luck. You only have to be better than the teams you play. You don't have to be better than everyone.
Strongly disagree, but if there isn't a great team then yeah matchups play a bigger role.
With which part? That you have to be better than the teams you play? That you have to have luck?
Great teams win regardless of opponent and matchups.
I'm not sure this is true. As pointed out before, anyone can have an off day and lose. But this is a different conversation than what I posted above. Just wondering which part you strongly disagree with.
That you need good matchups and luck. Great teams don't need that, if there are no great teams or they have a bad night on the wrong night then it comes down to matchups and luck more than before. Given our strengths and weaknesses i don't think we are great and will be more reliant on matchups and luck than others.
We'll have to agree to disagree. The last "great" unbeatable team that I can remember is UNLV and they lost to Duke :shrug:
We have different definitions of great, I think kentucky last year was great.
 
To sum up: 1) His recruiting is down if you look at national rankings and the team's he is recruiting against. The two signees for 2013 aren't very highly ranked, but they're kids who Tubby has been on and targeting for a long time. I think basically he got the most talented kids early when he arrived in order to make a splash and return the program to respectability and now is going after the kind of players he wants. It works for Wisconsin, and based on how the Hollinses and Coleman are looking it could work for him.2) He is not a very good offensive coach. The team is constantly poorly prepared for changes in defensive schemes, and not surprising ones either, but standard zones that teams break out from time to time. I don't know how to fix this after five years.Also, complaining about Tubby after losing in East Lansing doesn't make a whole lot of sense. There was a zero percent chance they'd win that game. And for those who want Tubby gone, who would you bring in? Serious question.

 
Hate to say this, but I hope the Gophers lose out so that the Gophers will rid themselves of Tubby. I'm afraid the game passed him by 10 years ago. He just seems so disinterested these days. On top of that, he's been nothing more than a mediocre recruiter, has lost more players whom have transferred out of his program in his short tenure in MN than any major D1 program I can recall, and is an extremely poor coach when it comes to making in game adjustments. Time for some fresh blood in Minnesota.
Delusional. Especially the mediocre recruiter part.Every time I watch the Gophers play I marvel at the fact that someone convinced all those freakish athletes to go to Minnesota.
All those freakish athletes? You mean all two of them? And the only two that have been freakish in Tubby's six year tenure at Minnesota? Regardless, freakish athletes do not always make good basketball players (see Rodney Williams) and definitely don't define how good of a recruiter you are. Spin it any way you want, but good recruiter Tubby is not.
So Tubby's a mediocre recruiter, terrible in-game coach and totally disinterested in his job, yet Minnesota is 17-6, in the top 25 in the country, and in the top half of the best conference in the country.What exactly do you expect from Minnesota basketball?
Let's be real, you've seen the Gophers ranking, watched them play against Michigan State, and probably caught glimpes of other games. Is that an accurate assumption? The Gophers are 17-6 in the top 25 in the country because they had a bunch of wins over the usual cupcakes to start the year, but actually found a way to add a few name wins early in the season over teams like Memphis, Florida State, and Stanford, which thus far is the only change this year over the past five that he's been here. We're now into the heart of the Big 10 schedule, and once again, Tubby Smith can't get this team to win Big 10 games. "Top half" of the Big 10? Please. When all that means is that you've got a better record than the Northwestern's, Iowa's, Nebraska's, and Penn State's of the Big 10 then that's not saying much. Once again, the Gophers are floundering during the Big 10 schedule, having lost 5 of their last 7 games. They're playing the same motionless offense that Tubby's employed during his tenure at Minnesota, with the only difference this year being that he finally has a little more talent/athleticism on the floor than he's had in season's past. That talent and ocassional defensive tenacity bought him some early season wins over some decent teams, but it doesn't cut it during Big 10 play. You need a coach that can actually, ya know, coach. What do I expect out of Minnesota basketball? You ask that question with a tone that Gopher fans can't reasonably expect anything more than what Tubby's given them in his six years here. If that's your point, I guess I'd disagree. But let's start with what I don't expect. I don't expect that they'll win the Big 10. But I also don't expect that they'll always finish 6th, 7th, 8th, or 9th. I don't expect that the Gophers will be in the Sweet Sixteen every year (but to be honest, making the sweet sixteen once in a while should be expected). But I also don't expect that they'll be in the NIT tourney more often than in the NCAA tourney. I don't expect that they'll get top 25 national recruiting classes, though it would be nice to land an elite player once in a while. Shoot, maybe even retain an elite local kid once in a while. And no, Coleman doesn't count. Regardless, I don't expect numerous players under scholarship to transfer to other programs (off the top of my head, White, Iversen, Joseph, Cobb, Armelin in the past few seasons). Make all the excuses you want, but that doesn't happen to the extent that it's been happening under Tubby if you run a stable program. As to what I expect? Assuming Tubby remains the coach, I guess it's safe to say that I expect more of what we've seen for six years, no? A bunch of wins over creampuffs at the start of every season that leads to unwarranted homer optimism, only for reality to set in when the Big 10 season starts...more underwhelming recruits...an inability to make halftime adjustments that every other team that we play seems to make...middling finishes in the Big 10 (top "half" as you say)...disgruntled players...a coach that blames the players more often than he seemingly blames himself...that glossed over look by the head coach when he seems to have no idea what to do when things start getting away from him during games.
 
If you want a long read on Tubby Smith from someone who has been a fan his whole life,you can check it out here.
Nothing in there I have issue with, Good read. Thanks.ETA: I really do like Tubby. Just seems like perhaps the program is taking a similar path now as his KY teams did his last few seasons there, towards the middle of the scale rather than the high end.. Hope not.
 
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To sum up: 1) His recruiting is down if you look at national rankings and the team's he is recruiting against. The two signees for 2013 aren't very highly ranked, but they're kids who Tubby has been on and targeting for a long time. I think basically he got the most talented kids early when he arrived in order to make a splash and return the program to respectability and now is going after the kind of players he wants. It works for Wisconsin, and based on how the Hollinses and Coleman are looking it could work for him.2) He is not a very good offensive coach. The team is constantly poorly prepared for changes in defensive schemes, and not surprising ones either, but standard zones that teams break out from time to time. I don't know how to fix this after five years.Also, complaining about Tubby after losing in East Lansing doesn't make a whole lot of sense. There was a zero percent chance they'd win that game. And for those who want Tubby gone, who would you bring in? Serious question.
That's a pretty accurate summary. I think recruiting the types of playes that Wisconsin recruits can work when you a coach that knows how to gameplan, take advantage of player strengths/weaknesses, and make in-game adjustments. Honestly, I'm not sure that anyone can watch a Tubby coached game and come away thinking that he was the better coach. There's simply no supporting evidence. Game after game it's the same thing. Very rarely do you seem his team take a team out of the defense that they're running because of Tubby's team's execution. Very rarely do you see a play out of a timeout that leads to an easy bucket. You hit the nail on the head with number 2 above. Call it what you want, underprepared, outcoached, outgameplanned, etc, it feels like the Groundhog's Day. As to my timing, it had nothing to do with losing at Mich St. That said let's be real, a zero percent chance to beat Mich St on the road? I guess that's generally my point. That's not true, but with Tubby as coach I'd have to agree that it seems that way. His team's here just rarely win games that they "shouldn't."
 
As long as the current coaches stay, ind-mich-msu-osu will be elite programs. I am not sure how minn joins that group.

 
Thanks for the compliments, blog readers.
Yeah, good read Frost. I didn't touch on your question as to whom I'd like to see replace Tubby, but there are a handful out there and you touched on a couple in Miles and Smart. Agree that Miles isn't going anywhere for a few years, it wouldn't do him any good and Nebraska is dumping a ton of money into trying to build that hoops program up. Believe me, Miles will do it too. He's exactly the type of coach that Minnesota needs. One that's proven he can turn programs around, and will stick around for 4-5 years to do it. As for Smart, would he even consider a job like the Gophers? Seems like a dumb question, but I'd imagine that he'd have some better options than Minnesota. Maybe I have too high of expectations, and Tubby-like success (middle of the Big 10 finishes, NIT runs or first round NCAA exits) are all that can be expected. That's very possible, but I find it hard to believe that the Gophers can't be better than they've been for the past decade.
 
Sure, but to win a title we have to be better than everyone... Not pretty much everyone.
To win the title you have to have the best match ups and a little luck. You only have to be better than the teams you play. You don't have to be better than everyone.
Strongly disagree, but if there isn't a great team then yeah matchups play a bigger role.
With which part? That you have to be better than the teams you play? That you have to have luck?
Great teams win regardless of opponent and matchups.
I'm not sure this is true. As pointed out before, anyone can have an off day and lose. But this is a different conversation than what I posted above. Just wondering which part you strongly disagree with.
That you need good matchups and luck. Great teams don't need that, if there are no great teams or they have a bad night on the wrong night then it comes down to matchups and luck more than before. Given our strengths and weaknesses i don't think we are great and will be more reliant on matchups and luck than others.
We'll have to agree to disagree. The last "great" unbeatable team that I can remember is UNLV and they lost to Duke :shrug:
We have different definitions of great, I think kentucky last year was great.
Yes we do....UK was good and had more talent than anyone in the country, but great teams don't lose to Vanderbilt when they out skill them at every single position....which goes back to my original point.
 

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