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Big Ten Basketball 2022/2023 - Return to Power (5 Viewers)

Uruk-Hai said:
Spartans Rule said:
I used to get really into the Big Ten title race, but by now I've kind of accepted the fact that Izzo just doesn't care about it. He's coaching for March, and if that means cutting the minutes of key players to develop the 11th and 12th man, so be it.

It often makes for a frustrating January and February, but I think most MSU fans will gladly accept the tradeoff.
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It's not an "either/or".

Winning your conference (regular season, conference tourney, or both) will help you in seeding in the NCAAs (or get you there in the first place).

Michigan State is really, really good but I can guarantee you Izzo ain't sandbagging to the point of losing games just to develop his 11th & 12th because he doesn't care about the B1G title. He's not throwing away regular season games. I could see a little in conference tourneys if you've got a banged-up team (or if you're Roy Williams).

Trust me, if Izzo has to play his 11th and/or 12th any meaningful minutes in March, he knows he's in trouble.
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:good posting:

Are there any college teams who even play more than 8 guys regular minutes?

 
whoknew said:
Uruk-Hai said:
Spartans Rule said:
I used to get really into the Big Ten title race, but by now I've kind of accepted the fact that Izzo just doesn't care about it. He's coaching for March, and if that means cutting the minutes of key players to develop the 11th and 12th man, so be it.

It often makes for a frustrating January and February, but I think most MSU fans will gladly accept the tradeoff.
Click to expand...
It's not an "either/or".

Winning your conference (regular season, conference tourney, or both) will help you in seeding in the NCAAs (or get you there in the first place).

Michigan State is really, really good but I can guarantee you Izzo ain't sandbagging to the point of losing games just to develop his 11th & 12th because he doesn't care about the B1G title. He's not throwing away regular season games. I could see a little in conference tourneys if you've got a banged-up team (or if you're Roy Williams).

Trust me, if Izzo has to play his 11th and/or 12th any meaningful minutes in March, he knows he's in trouble.
Click to expand...
:good posting:

Are there any college teams who even play more than 8 guys regular minutes?
Click to expand...
Turgeon has choked it down to 7 most games. With Wiley gone, I really believe he was hoping Brantley (& Ram to a lesser extent - can't shoot a lick but can defend; oh and Cek) would step up. But as Rich or one of the other MD guys said a page or two ago - Brantley must have screwed the coach's wife or something because his minutes have disappeared since he had his best game of the season.

 
Spartans Rule said:
I used to get really into the Big Ten title race, but by now I've kind of accepted the fact that Izzo just doesn't care about it. He's coaching for March, and if that means cutting the minutes of key players to develop the 11th and 12th man, so be it.

It often makes for a frustrating January and February, but I think most MSU fans will gladly accept the tradeoff.
Click to expand...
Totally Agree

 
Spartans Rule said:
I used to get really into the Big Ten title race, but by now I've kind of accepted the fact that Izzo just doesn't care about it. He's coaching for March, and if that means cutting the minutes of key players to develop the 11th and 12th man, so be it.

It often makes for a frustrating January and February, but I think most MSU fans will gladly accept the tradeoff.
Click to expand...
Maybe Painter is trying that approach this year. :mellow:

 
Uruk-Hai said:
Spartans Rule said:
I used to get really into the Big Ten title race, but by now I've kind of accepted the fact that Izzo just doesn't care about it. He's coaching for March, and if that means cutting the minutes of key players to develop the 11th and 12th man, so be it.

It often makes for a frustrating January and February, but I think most MSU fans will gladly accept the tradeoff.
Click to expand...
It's not an "either/or".

Winning your conference (regular season, conference tourney, or both) will help you in seeding in the NCAAs (or get you there in the first place).

Michigan State is really, really good but I can guarantee you Izzo ain't sandbagging to the point of losing games just to develop his 11th & 12th because he doesn't care about the B1G title. He's not throwing away regular season games. I could see a little in conference tourneys if you've got a banged-up team (or if you're Roy Williams).

Trust me, if Izzo has to play his 11th and/or 12th any meaningful minutes in March, he knows he's in trouble.
Click to expand...
You haven't watched much of Izzo's coaching approach the last few years then. ;)

I do agree though that he isn't sandbagging the regular season. I think it might come down to, after Bryn and DV, Costello and Tum Tum, the guys at the 3, 4, and 5 are so similar, it's hard to keep someone on the bench over another at this point. It's been this way for a couple years now, that I can remember. Also, there are very few games the past several seasons where we actually are in the Bonus before our opponents (not sure if this is because our "perceived" aggressive style translates to more fouls being called - who knows), but in any case, having the luxury of 6-9 guys, with good game experience, and that are pretty interchangeable in case we get in foul trouble is nice to have come March. This seems to me to be the most recent style Izzo has been employing...At least 10 deep for the last couple seasons for sure.

 
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BroncoFreak_2K3 said:
Uruk-Hai said:
Spartans Rule said:
I used to get really into the Big Ten title race, but by now I've kind of accepted the fact that Izzo just doesn't care about it. He's coaching for March, and if that means cutting the minutes of key players to develop the 11th and 12th man, so be it.

It often makes for a frustrating January and February, but I think most MSU fans will gladly accept the tradeoff.
Click to expand...
It's not an "either/or".

Winning your conference (regular season, conference tourney, or both) will help you in seeding in the NCAAs (or get you there in the first place).

Michigan State is really, really good but I can guarantee you Izzo ain't sandbagging to the point of losing games just to develop his 11th & 12th because he doesn't care about the B1G title. He's not throwing away regular season games. I could see a little in conference tourneys if you've got a banged-up team (or if you're Roy Williams).

Trust me, if Izzo has to play his 11th and/or 12th any meaningful minutes in March, he knows he's in trouble.
Click to expand...
You haven't watched much of Izzo's coaching approach the last few years then.
Click to expand...
I'm sure I haven't as closely as you have. But I know if you're playing the end of your bench meaningful minutes, you're in trouble. No team is perennially that loaded top-to-bottom in college hoops. If this is Izzo's new approach the last few years (I don't think it is myself), it ain't working based on the results.

Of all the active coaches today and given somewhere even close to the same talent against his opponent, I'd take Izzo over all of them to win a game that saves my life.

 
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Uruk-Hai said:
BroncoFreak_2K3 said:
Uruk-Hai said:
Spartans Rule said:
I used to get really into the Big Ten title race, but by now I've kind of accepted the fact that Izzo just doesn't care about it. He's coaching for March, and if that means cutting the minutes of key players to develop the 11th and 12th man, so be it.

It often makes for a frustrating January and February, but I think most MSU fans will gladly accept the tradeoff.
Click to expand...
It's not an "either/or".

Winning your conference (regular season, conference tourney, or both) will help you in seeding in the NCAAs (or get you there in the first place).

Michigan State is really, really good but I can guarantee you Izzo ain't sandbagging to the point of losing games just to develop his 11th & 12th because he doesn't care about the B1G title. He's not throwing away regular season games. I could see a little in conference tourneys if you've got a banged-up team (or if you're Roy Williams).

Trust me, if Izzo has to play his 11th and/or 12th any meaningful minutes in March, he knows he's in trouble.
Click to expand...
You haven't watched much of Izzo's coaching approach the last few years then.
Click to expand...
I'm sure I haven't as closely as you have. But I know if you're playing the end of your bench meaningful minutes, you're in trouble. No team is perennially that loaded top-to-bottom in college hoops. If this is Izzo's new approach the last few years (I don't think it is myself), it ain't working based on the results.

Of all the active coaches today and given somewhere even close to the same talent against his opponent, I'd take Izzo over all of them to win a game that saves my life.
Click to expand...
You're knocking him because he's lost two games total by the same team? OK...Sometimes teams just have another team's number in a given year. We've played a very tough non-conf schedule and had some pretty decent success this year I'd say.

I will say, that this is the latest I can recall him still not having a good handle on the combinations he wants in there though. I'm sure as January rolls into February, it'll start to get more whittled down. But not by that much.

 
I'm not knocking Izzo at all :loco: Did you even read the part where I said I'd take him in one game over every other active coach?

I just said he doesn't have some master plan to set up the NCAAs by bringing walk-on-level players off the bench in the Sweet 16 to SHOCK THE WORLD. He doesn't have some secret plan with this; he's doing it out of necessity and it's not good in the long run if he has to.

 
Uruk-Hai said:
I'm not knocking Izzo at all :loco: Did you even read the part where I said I'd take him in one game over every other active coach?

I just said he doesn't have some master plan to set up the NCAAs by bringing walk-on-level players off the bench in the Sweet 16 to SHOCK THE WORLD. He doesn't have some secret plan with this; he's doing it out of necessity and it's not good in the long run if he has to.
Click to expand...
walk-on level players...that's good...lol. He's not going quite that few into the bench...yet.

ETA: Just heard a radio interview with Izzo. Basically said his goal is to get down to a nine-layer rotation. The injury to DV has hampered that goal a bit over the last few weeks, but that's his goal. He still wants to keep a solid 10 or 11 guys he can rotate in without too much leveling off, like he has now, but really is striving for a definitive 9.

I guess I would categorize the guys 9-12 at this point as a group of solid part-time guys that have gotten valuable playing time so far that will be beneficial (and always has been) come March, partially due to DV's injury (Izzo said he's about 85-90% right now) and partially due to the fact that there isn't a whole lot of drop off or difference in abilities at those spots. They're definitely not walk-on level talent.

 
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I know Trimble always looks like he's ready for nap time when he plays, but I wonder if something isn't wrong with him. He just looks off.

 
Good Lord. Carter & Stone went right the #### off. Sulaimon, too. That was as good a stretch of hoops as I've seen the Terps play in years.

Conway: even Nickens made a shot!

 
Yeah, good to see them playing like this today. Carter can't miss. Looks like Ram has completely taken Brantley's minutes.

 
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Just interrupting the All-Terps talk to say Hoosiers at Minnesota is a great game at the half! Minnesota always plays IU tough at The Barn, hate that place.

 
Been busy and traveling a bunch but am really :bag: that I didn't know that James Blackmon on IU tore up his knee and is out for season.

Love watching that guy play, 2 big knee injuries now is bad news for him.

 
Isiah was a great, great player. I haven't seen it in 35 years, but I can still recall the SI issue with "And A Little Child Shall Lead Them" on the cover

 
jon_mx said:
Indiana has to be happy with their start, but the last half of their schedule is brutal. They could go 8-0 then 3-5.
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I know you are just referencing BigTen play, but their actual season start was a mess. Absolutely, their initial conference schedule results are not discouraging, but they aren't encouraging until you start playing Purdue, Michigan, Michigan State, Iowa, or Maryland.

 
The General said:
Uruk-Hai said:
Garrett said:
The General said:
BroncoFreak_2K3 said:
Dan Dakich ‏@dandakich 2h2 hours ago Working B10 games makes refs far more $ than working n Horizon..refs don't want Izzo mad at em..

Dan Dakich ‏@dandakich 2h2 hours ago

Of course..so predictable ..charge on Oaklands Felder
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toolboy at it again tonight on his twitter. So bitter.... :lmao: Maybe he'll finally get that Indy job he's wanted to badly since Crean is the suck.
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Will always love Dan for locking up MJ back in the 80's to beat UNC. But do not hire this guy at IU.
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I would be completely shocked if Dakich was offered a coaching job again in any major conference.
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Back story on Dakich? I barely remember him as a player and only really know him as a blow-hard on ESPN.
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He was a bench/role player for IU, lots of screens, picks, bounce passes, etc. Probably took all kinds of crap from Knight in practices. In the Sweet 16 against 1 seed UNC he got the start and was told to guard Michael Jordan. Jordan had a bad game, fouled out. IU pulls off the upset in a game they had no business winning. Just one of the many Bob Knight legendary moves.I was a little kid living in Bloomington at the time and Dakich was the man for that game.

He coached for awhile and was OK at Bowling Green. IIRC he took over as the Hoosiers interim HC after Kelvin Sampson got canned.
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He had a very good start at BG, but was never the same after the West Virginia fiasco.
 
I'm really not recognizing this thing IU is doing lately when the opponents have the ball. Little help? Whatever it's called, I kinda like it.

 
Terps making it interesting again tonight. Trimble, Layman, Carter, and Stone all looked good. Sulaimon, Nickens, and Dodd were mostly non-existent on offense, but good D, mostly. Ram had a few minutes again, but basically a 7-man rotation. I guess Brantley has been benched for lack of effort in practice. Not sure why Cekovsky isn't playing at all.

 
The Commish said:
whoknew said:
Third straight loss for Michigan State at home versus Nebraska.

Rough go of it.
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You know it's a rough patch when Nebraska is trolling you on twitter. I don't watch a ton of MSU basketball. What the heck is going on with them?
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Apparently - according to our Spartan friends - this is just normal Izzo finding his rotation. He doesn't care how many losses he has because Big Ten titles are stupid.

 
whoknew said:
The Commish said:
whoknew said:
Third straight loss for Michigan State at home versus Nebraska.

Rough go of it.
Click to expand...
You know it's a rough patch when Nebraska is trolling you on twitter. I don't watch a ton of MSU basketball. What the heck is going on with them?
Click to expand...
Apparently - according to our Spartan friends - this is just normal Izzo finding his rotation. He doesn't care how many losses he has because Big Ten titles are stupid.
Click to expand...
um...wut? :oldunsure:

Is this what I get for not being in this thread daily?

 
The General said:
Been busy and traveling a bunch but am really :bag: that I didn't know that James Blackmon on IU tore up his knee and is out for season.

Love watching that guy play, 2 big knee injuries now is bad news for him.
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I love watching him play on 1/2 the court because he plays no defense. It's no coincidence that their defense has significantly improved after his injury.

That being said, I hope he makes a full recovery and is as good as new next year.

(And maybe learns the value of defense)

 
phatdawg said:
The General said:
Been busy and traveling a bunch but am really :bag: that I didn't know that James Blackmon on IU tore up his knee and is out for season.

Love watching that guy play, 2 big knee injuries now is bad news for him.
Click to expand...
I love watching him play on 1/2 the court because he plays no defense. It's no coincidence that their defense has significantly improved after his injury.

That being said, I hope he makes a full recovery and is as good as new next year.

(And maybe learns the value of defense)
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That is a great point on his D.

The schedule gets brutal soon so we'll see what happens coming up.

 
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