Bills moving to L.A.? (1 Viewer)

[parrot]

Hmmmm....., Buffalo.... or LA? I wonder how they would sell this to the players?

 

[FFChick32]

Take a look at all the ex-Bills who moved here/stayed here after they retired......we may not have it all together, but we definately have HEART and community spirit......the best way to describe Buffalo is that it has small town charm and community with all the benefits of a city.....great museums, parks, sports teams, malls, history, architecture, and people....I bet if given the choice, the players would want to stay here.....

 

[schooner44]

I grew up in Buffalo until I was 25 (1999) and heard many times about the Bills moving to Toronto or somewhere else but nothing ever came out of it. Ralph Wilson has stated that the Bills will not be left to any of his kids and therefore the organization will be sold. Jim Kelly is a very predominant in Buffalo still and I have heard rumors of him trying to get financial backers to purchase the Bills. I have also heard rumors of Tom Golisano(current owner of Buffalo Sabres) buying the Bills as well but I'm not sure if he is allowed to own 2 major sports franchises in the same city.

Bottom line is that the people of Buffalo, wealthy ones and Joe Q. Public, will not let the Bills leave Buffalo.

This is PURE SPECUALTION but Curtis Martin has mentioned that he is lining up backers to buy an NFL franchise and if he doesn't get one by the time Mr. Wilson passes, I wouldn't be surprised to see him make a move as well.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

I grew up in Buffalo until I was 25 (1999) and heard many times about the Bills moving to Toronto or somewhere else but nothing ever came out of it. Ralph Wilson has stated that the Bills will not be left to any of his kids and therefore the organization will be sold. Jim Kelly is a very predominant in Buffalo still and I have heard rumors of him trying to get financial backers to purchase the Bills. I have also heard rumors of Tom Golisano(current owner of Buffalo Sabres) buying the Bills as well but I'm not sure if he is allowed to own 2 major sports franchises in the same city.Bottom line is that the people of Buffalo, wealthy ones and Joe Q. Public, will not let the Bills leave Buffalo. This is PURE SPECUALTION but Curtis Martin has mentioned that he is lining up backers to buy an NFL franchise and if he doesn't get one by the time Mr. Wilson passes, I wouldn't be surprised to see him make a move as well.

Im not sure if the NFL has rules against duel ownership, but in Detroit Illich owns the Tigers and red wings, and Mr.Davidison owns the Pistons and the Tampa Lightning(which he just sold), so It's doable.

 

[Ron_Mexico]

the best way to describe Buffalo is that it has small town charm and community with all the benefits of a city.....great museums, parks, sports teams, malls, history, architecture, and people...

...and sub-zero temperatures 11 months out of the year.

 

[Pip's Invitation]

The reason he is not leaving it to his family is becasue they would not have the capital to pay the inheritence tax. While they have a great nest egg in a team worth $750 million or whatever, they would not have the capital to pay the tax, or so he has said.

That is how Daniel Snyder ended up with the Redskins and "estate planning" is why Art Modell sold the Ravens.

I was unaware that was the reason Art Modell sold the team. Makes sense though. It's a shame, especially since Ralph helped found the AFL, saved the Raiders from bankruptcy and has saved the Bills throughout the years. Would this be a problem in Florida? No income tax, but I'm not a lawyer.....

The estate tax is a federal thing. Doesn't matter what state you live in.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Of the 20 largest cities in the US....

1 New York, N.Y. Giants, Jets2 Los Angeles, Calif. NONE3 Chicago, Ill. Bears4 Houston, Tex. Texans5 Philadelphia, Pa. Eagles6 Phoenix, Ariz. Cardinals7 San Antonio, Tex. NONE8 San Diego, Calif. Chargers9 Dallas, Tex. Cowboys10 San Jose, Calif. NONE11 Detroit, Mich. Lions12 Indianapolis, Ind. Colts13 Jacksonville, Fla. Jaguars14 San Francisco, Calif. 49ers15 Columbus, Ohio NONE16 Austin, Tex. NONE17 Memphis, Tenn. NONE18 Baltimore, Md. Ravens19 Fort Worth, Tex. Cowboys20 Charlotte, N.C. PanthersOf the cities without an NFL team...1) LA. Its history of NFL problems, along with two huge colleges and the Lakers, makes it a questionable location.

2) San Antonio. 275 miles from Dallas. 197 miles from Houston. The NBA has a team in each of these three cities. This could work, especially when you consider...

3) #16, Austin, TX. Austin is obviously a huge college football town, but if you put the team between Austin and San Antonio, that's a huge potential market. I don't think a combined name would work (The San Antonio Longhorns of Austin doesn't sound so hot), but perhaps naming the team after the state of Texas works. I'm sure Dallas/Houston would complain, but I don't know if they have a right to do so.

4) San Jose is a big city, and very affluent. This could work, but the 49ers and Raiders would fight like hell to prevent this. Al Davis being around is a big enough impediment here.

5) Columbus is within 100 miles of an NFL team, within 150 miles of two NFL teams, and within 200 miles of five NFL teams. Considering the dominance of tOSU there, I don't see them getting a team.

6) Memphis had the Titans for a year. I don't know why Memphis didn't get the Titans, and Nashville did. Any thoughts here? They're within shouting distance of the Rams and the Titans, but I could see Memphis getting a team. Pretty wealthy area, too.

So of the six cities, I don't think Columbus or San Jose has much of a chance. Austin-San Antonio is a two million person market, which is enormous. LA has an even bigger one, but LA's problems are well documented. And Memphis? Maybe one day.

 

[redman]

Of the 20 largest cities in the US....

1	 New York, N.Y.		 Giants, Jets2	 Los Angeles, Calif.	NONE3	 Chicago, Ill.		  Bears4	 Houston, Tex.		  Texans5	 Philadelphia, Pa.	  Eagles6	 Phoenix, Ariz.		 Cardinals7	 San Antonio, Tex.	  NONE8	 San Diego, Calif.	  Chargers9	 Dallas, Tex.		   Cowboys10	San Jose, Calif.	   NONE11	Detroit, Mich.		 Lions12	Indianapolis, Ind.	 Colts13	Jacksonville, Fla.	 Jaguars14	San Francisco, Calif.  49ers15	Columbus, Ohio		 NONE16	Austin, Tex.		   NONE17	Memphis, Tenn.		 NONE18	Baltimore, Md.		 Ravens19	Fort Worth, Tex.	   Cowboys20	Charlotte, N.C.		Panthers

Of the cities without an NFL team...1) LA. Its history of NFL problems, along with two huge colleges and the Lakers, makes it a questionable location. 2) San Antonio. 275 miles from Dallas. 197 miles from Houston. The NBA has a team in each of these three cities. This could work, especially when you consider...3) #16, Austin, TX. Austin is obviously a huge college football town, but if you put the team between Austin and San Antonio, that's a huge potential market. I don't think a combined name would work (The San Antonio Longhorns of Austin doesn't sound so hot), but perhaps naming the team after the state of Texas works. I'm sure Dallas/Houston would complain, but I don't know if they have a right to do so.4) San Jose is a big city, and very affluent. This could work, but the 49ers and Raiders would fight like hell to prevent this. Al Davis being around is a big enough impediment here.5) Columbus is within 100 miles of an NFL team, within 150 miles of two NFL teams, and within 200 miles of five NFL teams. Considering the dominance of tOSU there, I don't see them getting a team.6) Memphis had the Titans for a year. I don't know why Memphis didn't get the Titans, and Nashville did. Any thoughts here? They're within shouting distance of the Rams and the Titans, but I could see Memphis getting a team. Pretty wealthy area, too.So of the six cities, I don't think Columbus or San Jose has much of a chance. Austin-San Antonio is a two million person market, which is enormous. LA has an even bigger one, but LA's problems are well documented. And Memphis? Maybe one day.

I've also seen the Birmingham, AL metro area, just south of Memphis, mentioned.

 

[GoBills02]

I've only lived out here 10 years, so the LA football fiasco arrived and departed before me, but I don't understand how football could not succeed out here. Everyone talks about LA and how many people. I don't think people on the east coast (I know I didn't before I moved here), realize how many cities are out here. There are no suburbs. It starts on the coast with the beach cities and is one endless strip mall and city for 80 miles past San Bernardino toward the east. In between, you have LA, Anaheim, Riverside, Ontario, Ranch Cucamungo, Montclair, Covina, Redlands, San Bernardino, Corona, Pasadena, etc.....I could list many more. There has to be a pool of over 12 million people. Heck, we just evacuated more poeple from the fires that live in the entire state of Wyoming.

I think Ralph Wilson and Buffalo are actually tying to do something right. They're pressing hard for a regional fan base and team. Drawing from Richester, Syracuse, Toronto, Erie, Bingahmton. They sell out even though they stink. I can't comprehend how football doesn't and hasn't worked out here, but like I said, that was before my time. This area supports 2 hockey teams, 2 baseball teams, 2 basketball teams, but can't support one football team?

 

[toxicbees]

The fan base for the Bills is probably in the top 15 in the league. The problem is that the corporation base for luxury boxes is in the bottom 5. Bills would do OK in Toronto for the first few years and if they were winning, but Toronto is a hockey town and I don't see them supporting a losing team. Plus, Toronto and Ontario people are used to coming to Buffalo to watch the Sabres and Bills.

I doubt that Toronto being a hockey town would mean that they wouldn't support the NFL. All the pro sports teams in Toronto do very well attendance wise. Look at what happened when MLS came to Toronto. Toronto built a brand new soccer stadium and has sold out every home game this season, even though the team was the worst in the league.

 

[Chase Stuart]

There's another serious problem raised by moving Buffalo to LA -- realignment.

Having the LA XXXXX in the AFC East is silly.

 

[redman]

I've only lived out here 10 years, so the LA football fiasco arrived and departed before me, but I don't understand how football could not succeed out here. Everyone talks about LA and how many people. I don't think people on the east coast (I know I didn't before I moved here), realize how many cities are out here. There are no suburbs. It starts on the coast with the beach cities and is one endless strip mall and city for 80 miles past San Bernardino toward the east. In between, you have LA, Anaheim, Riverside, Ontario, Ranch Cucamungo, Montclair, Covina, Redlands, San Bernardino, Corona, Pasadena, etc.....I could list many more. There has to be a pool of over 12 million people. Heck, we just evacuated more poeple from the fires that live in the entire state of Wyoming.

I think Ralph Wilson and Buffalo are actually tying to do something right. They're pressing hard for a regional fan base and team. Drawing from Richester, Syracuse, Toronto, Erie, Bingahmton. They sell out even though they stink. I can't comprehend how football doesn't and hasn't worked out here, but like I said, that was before my time. This area supports 2 hockey teams, 2 baseball teams, 2 basketball teams, but can't support one football team?

It can support football, but the NFL wants certain conditions met and the municipalities aren't willing to make those conditions happen. They primarily relate to stadium construction/upgrades, and to guarantees about seats. To me, it's idiotic. The NFL has the werewithall to fund its own stadium and build it, and make money off of the deal. It just doesn't want to have that burden. You also have a very politicized debate about the stadiums, because the part of town it goes into means huge business and will be a political boon to the politicians in that area. Do you want the Coliseum to be renovated, and help the most heavily African-American portion of Los Angeles, or do you want it to go into old money Pasadena (which Pasadena itself doesn't really want) or into Carson, or even elsewhere? This is all up in the air. Plus, public transit in this region sucks. LA will never be like Pittsburgh or Green Bay, or even Kansas City or Washington D.C. in terms of a fan base being primarily fanatical (or monomaniacal in the case of the latter pair) about their football team. Won't happen. There's too much going on and I think the mindset here is that people have too many other options to worry too much about a football team. You also have some deeply rooted franchises here in the Lakers and the Dodgers, something that isn't the case as much in other successful NFL cities.

Anyway, there's a lot of things at work here, boiling under the surface.

 

[cstu]

There's another serious problem raised by moving Buffalo to LA -- realignment.Having the LA XXXXX in the AFC East is silly.

Move the Rams to the AFC East.

 

[Chase Stuart]

There's another serious problem raised by moving Buffalo to LA -- realignment.Having the LA XXXXX in the AFC East is silly.

Move the Rams to the AFC East.

Let's move the Bills to the NFC West, the Rams to the AFC South, the Colts to the AFC North, and the Ravens to the AFC East., Maybe we can move the Cowboys out of the NFC East while we're at it.

 

[fatness king]

1. Al Davis

Trainwreck owner: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Davis

2. Rose Bowl

This sits in an affluent area in a logistically bad location. The residents don't want it and driving to the stadium is a nightmare; I just went to the UCLA/Cal game and my friends and I joked why wouldn't the NFL want to play here...

3. Coliseum

This sits in a bad area and is in need of major upgrades.

4. Taxes

There are plenty of entertainment options in this area. The tax base isn't going to "pay" for an NFL team when the rich will get richer.

5. Fans

Does LA have fanatics like other cities? No, there are other things to do if the team sucks (ie. Kings, Clippers). But there is still enough of a fanbase keep those teams going financially. Fair-weather fans? Definitely, I'd rather go surfing than watch the Dodgers choke down the stretch.

If they can decide on a new stadium that doesn't ripoff taxpayers, it's definitely doable.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Since I'm bored, I'll play the realignment game. I'll give it some meaning, too, since right now there's no meaningful distinction between AFC and NFC.

Northeast Division: New York, New York, New England, Buffalo

Atlantic Division: Philadelphia, Washington, Baltimore, Pittsburgh

Southeast Division: Miami, Tampa Bay, Jacksonville, Atlanta

Nascar Division: Indianpolis, Carolina, Cleveland, Cincinnati

Norris Division: Detroit, Green Bay, Minnesota, Chicago

Center Division: Denver, Kansas City, St. Louis, Tennessee

Mexico Division: Arizona, Dallas, New Orleans, Houston

Pacific Division: Seattle, San Diego, Oakland, San Francisco

 

[GoBills02]

1. Al Davis

Trainwreck owner: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Davis

2. Rose Bowl

This sits in an affluent area in a logistically bad location. The residents don't want it and driving to the stadium is a nightmare; I just went to the UCLA/Cal game and my friends and I joked why wouldn't the NFL want to play here...

3. Coliseum

This sits in a bad area and is in need of major upgrades.

4. Taxes

There are plenty of entertainment options in this area. The tax base isn't going to "pay" for an NFL team when the rich will get richer.

5. Fans

Does LA have fanatics like other cities? No, there are other things to do if the team sucks (ie. Kings, Clippers). But there is still enough of a fanbase keep those teams going financially. Fair-weather fans? Definitely, I'd rather go surfing than watch the Dodgers choke down the stretch.

If they can decide on a new stadium that doesn't ripoff taxpayers, it's definitely doable.

I'm all for moving it close to the Ontario Area, many freeways meet and major airport rght there, This would definatley make it a regional team. I went to the Coliseum years ago, and probably wouldn't go back, and you're right on about Pasadena.

 

[roadkill1292]

There have been rumblings like this for years. There is also a chance that they move to Toronto, as they are currently in talks to sign a deal to play 8 games over the next 5 years in Toronto.I also heard a rumour a while back that a group led by Jim Kelly and Thurman Thomas was interested in buying the team, that would keep them in Buffalo for sure.

Kelly lives in Buffalo, and Thomas just moved there. I believe Kelly on his own has enough money to do it, and he is very involved politically in Buffalo, so he could draw some investors if he doesn't. The most likely scenario IMO is Kelly, Thomas, and someone like Jeremy Jacobs or Tom Golisano - local business owners with an interest in the city.

You're smoking some serious ##### if you think Kelly has enough weatlh to be the lead player in a deal to purchase a team worth $750 million.Since he played before salaries excalated throught the stratophere, where do you think he acquired this vast forture?

What would be interesting is to see if you can make it a municipally owned corp, like Green Bay, or some similar arrangement. The Bills seem to have enough of a local following to make that work. The nice result of that is that such teams of course don't move elsewhere.

Heck, I'd like to see the whole league organized this way. We could have barrels of fun with this scenario, right down to making the GM position an elected office.But it's a pipe dream as private enterprise would eventually start up competition and bury the public teams with its deep pockets. I am also under the impression that the NFL will not allow another community-owned franchise into the league and that Green Bay has been grandfathered in. I'll have to research that a little tonight.

 

[FFChick32]

the best way to describe Buffalo is that it has small town charm and community with all the benefits of a city.....great museums, parks, sports teams, malls, history, architecture, and people...

...and sub-zero temperatures 11 months out of the year.

Not to get off topic, but that is a stereotype......we don't have any worse of a winter than the rest of the northern quarter of the US.....it has been in the 70s this week in October, so I'm not sure where you're getting 11 months from.....you hear about our 1 or 2 big snowstorms a year, but the winters are really not that bad.....

 

[GoBills02]

the best way to describe Buffalo is that it has small town charm and community with all the benefits of a city.....great museums, parks, sports teams, malls, history, architecture, and people...

...and sub-zero temperatures 11 months out of the year.

Not to get off topic, but that is a stereotype......we don't have any worse of a winter than the rest of the northern quarter of the US.....it has been in the 70s this week in October, so I'm not sure where you're getting 11 months from.....you hear about our 1 or 2 big snowstorms a year, but the winters are really not that bad.....

And I'm not sure where Willis was hangin out, but I've seen a few hot women.........

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

From the Star: Toronto unlikely to land NFL team

By Rick Westhead - Toronto Star

Updated: 10/20/07 8:31 AM

TORONTO — The Buffalo Bills are coming to Toronto. At least a few of their players are.

A local sports marketing company on Thursday announced Bills running back Marshawn Lynch and quarterback Trent Edwards would be among a group of the team’s players who will travel to Toronto on Tuesday with new shoulder pads and footballs to donate to Sir Sanford Fleming Academy’s fledgling junior football team.

The schoolyard may be about as close as they get to the Rogers Centre and tossing NFL footballs in Toronto for real.

The players’ appearance was announced on the same day The Buffalo News reported the Bills’ plan to ask the league — at a meeting in Philadelphia also on Tuesday — for permission to play at least two exhibition games and one regular- season game north of the border.

The News reported the Bills want to play an exhibition game at the Rogers Centre as soon as next season and could play two contests, including one regular-season game, here in 2009. The Bills will need the consent of 24 of the league’s 32 team owners to proceed with the plan, an NFL spokesman said Thursday.

On both fronts, the news served to stoke speculation that Bills owner Ralph Wilson, 89, may be laying the groundwork for a possible sale of his team — bought in 1959 for a mere $25,000.

Yet moving to Toronto, which could bolster the NFL’s international operations, makes little sense for the league. A far shrewder move would see the NFL strongly encourage Wilson to sell the Bills to interests in southern California.

The second-largest media market in North America, Los Angeles has been without an NFL team for 13 years since the Rams bolted for St. Louis.

And while any suitor for the Bills would have to grapple with the unwieldy task of building an NFL-sized stadium there, moving the team to the U.S. West Coast instead of Toronto would seem to make more financial sense on several fronts.

For starters, forget an expansion team going to Los Angeles. Over the long term, adding to the NFL’s 32-team roster does little to line the pockets of the league’s owners, who currently receive about $110 million apiece each year in TV revenue.

If that money had to be shared with a 33rd owner, the yearly TV payments would be about $106 million instead. Over 10 years, that’s some $40 million less.

All of a sudden a $1 billion expansion fee — $31 million per team — doesn’t look so good. (That equation doesn’t even consider that owners would also have to reduce their stake in the NFL Network, which is worth an estimated $1 billion.)

Without expansion, the Bills would surely be at or near the top of a list of candidates to move to L.A.

To be sure, the concept of NFL football in Toronto isn’t far-fetched. The Globe & Mail reported last week that the owners of the CFL’s Argonauts have explored whether they could raise the money to build a stadium for an NFL franchise in Toronto.

And a source familiar with the matter told the Star that a plan has percolated for years to jackhammer the field level at the Rogers Centre. Sinking the field could make room for as many as 10,000 new seats for a 100-yard NFL field.

Nevertheless, the NFL and Wilson are sure to come to the same conclusion in future months when they contemplate the Bills’ future: Skyline aside, Toronto doesn’t come close to L.A. when the debate moves to how best to buttress NFL coffers.

http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/billsnfl/story/188305.html

 

[mdog1967]

As a Bills fan living in Western NY I don't want to believe that this could happen and my gut reaction is to get offended when the media perpetuates the idea that the Bills would move. That said, there aren't too many viable scenarios where the Bills would be able to remain here. Their best hope is that they are purchased by billionaire Tom Golisano who currently owns the Sabres. I'm not putting too much stock in the Kelly/Thomas scenario because they would need to attract MAJOR investors that would also need to believe football can be profitable in the region. Anybody who thinks that a few ex-Bills are going to walk in and plunk down the kind of cash it takes to own an NFL franchise is seriously kidding themselves. I don't want to believe that the Bills could leave NY, but if a city like Cleveland can lose the Browns, then anything is possible.

A non Bills Fan here, Keep them in NY. The City needs them, the community is ingrained with them and it would be a shame to send any team to L.A. Send hot cars and hot chicks to the Left coast and keep football in the hands of Die Hard Fans.

 

[mad sweeney]

I've only lived out here 10 years, so the LA football fiasco arrived and departed before me, but I don't understand how football could not succeed out here. Everyone talks about LA and how many people. I don't think people on the east coast (I know I didn't before I moved here), realize how many cities are out here. There are no suburbs. It starts on the coast with the beach cities and is one endless strip mall and city for 80 miles past San Bernardino toward the east. In between, you have LA, Anaheim, Riverside, Ontario, Ranch Cucamungo, Montclair, Covina, Redlands, San Bernardino, Corona, Pasadena, etc.....I could list many more. There has to be a pool of over 12 million people. Heck, we just evacuated more poeple from the fires that live in the entire state of Wyoming.

I think Ralph Wilson and Buffalo are actually tying to do something right. They're pressing hard for a regional fan base and team. Drawing from Richester, Syracuse, Toronto, Erie, Bingahmton. They sell out even though they stink. I can't comprehend how football doesn't and hasn't worked out here, but like I said, that was before my time. This area supports 2 hockey teams, 2 baseball teams, 2 basketball teams, but can't support one football team?

It can support football, but the NFL wants certain conditions met and the municipalities aren't willing to make those conditions happen. They primarily relate to stadium construction/upgrades, and to guarantees about seats. To me, it's idiotic. The NFL has the werewithall to fund its own stadium and build it, and make money off of the deal. It just doesn't want to have that burden. You also have a very politicized debate about the stadiums, because the part of town it goes into means huge business and will be a political boon to the politicians in that area. Do you want the Coliseum to be renovated, and help the most heavily African-American portion of Los Angeles, or do you want it to go into old money Pasadena (which Pasadena itself doesn't really want) or into Carson, or even elsewhere? This is all up in the air. Plus, public transit in this region sucks. LA will never be like Pittsburgh or Green Bay, or even Kansas City or Washington D.C. in terms of a fan base being primarily fanatical (or monomaniacal in the case of the latter pair) about their football team. Won't happen. There's too much going on and I think the mindset here is that people have too many other options to worry too much about a football team. You also have some deeply rooted franchises here in the Lakers and the Dodgers, something that isn't the case as much in other successful NFL cities.

Anyway, there's a lot of things at work here, boiling under the surface.

Not to mention the fact that it seems 2/3 of the people here came from somewhere else and brought their team with them. Getting a losing franchise isn't going to make the fans of other teams switch allegiances. ALthough maybe every game would sell out with a majority of tix going to the opposing teams' fans.

 

[mad sweeney]

Since I'm bored, I'll play the realignment game. I'll give it some meaning, too, since right now there's no meaningful distinction between AFC and NFC.

Northeast Division: New York, New York, New England, Buffalo

Atlantic Division: Philadelphia, Washington, Baltimore, Pittsburgh

Southeast Division: Miami, Tampa Bay, Jacksonville, Atlanta

Nascar Division: Indianpolis, Carolina, Cleveland, Cincinnati

Norris Division: Detroit, Green Bay, Minnesota, Chicago

Center Division: Denver, Kansas City, St. Louis, Tennessee

Mexico Division: Arizona, Dallas, New Orleans, Houston

Pacific Division: Seattle, San Diego, Oakland, San Francisco