Subway just opened across the street from me, but it appears they are only accepting cash currently. Seems like this store would have had to remain closed for a while longer if they only took bitcoin. Score one for the crisp, clean USD. God, I can't believe I just typed that last sentence. That's how bad the bitcoin really is.
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
Bitcoins - anyone else mining? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Charlie Frown
- Start date
Yes, I actually posted a blog entry from someone who shopped there. It was "awesome!"
Speaking of which, I noticed this pattern when I was actually grabbing and organizing some of the links here. Someone posts a link and it's actually useful and pertinent to their argument when they do. And then you regurgitate the exact same link 2 pages later, except it has nothing to do with the point being made.
Jojo the circus boy
Footballguy
Tom Servo
Nittany Beavers
Last edited by a moderator:
Jojo the circus boy
Footballguy
...and here's Tom Servo the man who hasn't shared an original thought in the entire thread 
identikit
Footballguy
LOL @ 'original thought'...and here's Tom Servo the man who hasn't shared an original thought in the entire thread
Coming from the C&P Circus Boy, that's rich.
Jojo the circus boy
Footballguy
Any trolls want to make a bold 2014 prediction?
Here's mine, Wal-Mart announces plans to accept Bitcoin as payment.
Here's mine, Wal-Mart announces plans to accept Bitcoin as payment.
Jojo the circus boy
Footballguy
Working like a charm:
This post is hidden because you have chosen to ignore posts by identikit. View it anyway?
This post is hidden because you have chosen to ignore posts by identikit. View it anyway?
Is this real payment or Subway/Amazon where you don't actually pay in bitcoin? That is only bold if it isn't an intermediary taking bitcoins, converting them and then actually paying in USDs.
My bold one is that bitcoins are virtually worthless and yesterday's news. You saw my posts above and I think 2014 will be a big push towards financial security because of Target.
Jojo the circus boy
Footballguy
Jojo the circus boy
Footballguy
So since you only care about the bitcoin to USD ratio like the other trolls in here, what is your guess for the exchange rate on 12/31/14?
Downloading some of this data so I can figure out how I'm going to go about visualizing it. What I want is some nice interactive graphs that allow you to stack several of these metrics together, focus on certain time ranges etc. I haven't seen that anywhere, and I figure something like this would be a great way to launch this site and get it on the map. And should prove valuable to bitcoiners and non bitcoiners alike.
Anyways - I came across this chart and discussion regarding "measuring speculation" as I was pulling data from blockchain.info:
http://codinginmysleep.com/measuring-bitcoin-speculation/
https://blockchain.info/charts/tx-trade-ratio
Looks like the "speculation index" is rising rapidly this year, there has been some increase in transaction activity vs trade activity, but nothing like the run up in price. Though it's tougher to tell from Garzik's graph since he doesn't have price on there. Hopefully my graphs fix this.
The transaction vs trade ratio itself exhibits the same sort of stability bitcoin has though. 
Also from his article, the giant account transferring money all over the place is once again mentioned:
Anyways - I came across this chart and discussion regarding "measuring speculation" as I was pulling data from blockchain.info:
http://codinginmysleep.com/measuring-bitcoin-speculation/
https://blockchain.info/charts/tx-trade-ratio
Looks like the "speculation index" is rising rapidly this year, there has been some increase in transaction activity vs trade activity, but nothing like the run up in price. Though it's tougher to tell from Garzik's graph since he doesn't have price on there. Hopefully my graphs fix this.
The transaction vs trade ratio itself exhibits the same sort of stability bitcoin has though. Also from his article, the giant account transferring money all over the place is once again mentioned:
Last edited by a moderator:
As for data visualization, anybody have any suggestions here? I found this tool which seems like it'll probably pull off what I'm looking for with medium difficulty: http://www.tableausoftware.com/public/how-it-works
Here's an example from their gallery which is basically identical to the effect I'm going for: http://www.tableausoftware.com/public/gallery/great-divide
I'm not really a coder, so I don't really want to learn javascript all too much right now. I'd like something I can more hit the ground running with, run the current data through, and put together said graphs. This seems to fit the bill for the most part, except it's got a bit of a learning curve and I'd prefer something even easier if possible.
Here's an example from their gallery which is basically identical to the effect I'm going for: http://www.tableausoftware.com/public/gallery/great-divide
I'm not really a coder, so I don't really want to learn javascript all too much right now. I'd like something I can more hit the ground running with, run the current data through, and put together said graphs. This seems to fit the bill for the most part, except it's got a bit of a learning curve and I'd prefer something even easier if possible.
Last edited by a moderator:
Maelstrom
Footballguy
You should look into D3.js - if you can use jQuery, you can probably wrangle D3.js to do what you want in the way of some pretty cool visualizations.
http://d3js.org/
some tutorials:
https://www.dashingd3js.com/
http://frontendmasters.com/courses/interactive-data-visualization-d3-js/categorical-color-scale/
Last edited by a moderator:
Thanks sir. That looks like it gets me into learning javascript, but it does seem like that's probably the best route long term as I can see there's piles of javascript libraries for this sort of thing. I was hoping I might be able to find something really easy, but it looks like everything easy won't get me what I'm looking for in terms of being interactive and stuff.
Computer world ranks D3 as a 4 and Tableau as a 3 in terms of "skill level". Ideally I want something that's a 1, heh. http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9214755/Chart_and_image_gallery_30_free_tools_for_data_visualization_and_analysis
Those "March 2011" coins that I saw move the other day actually caused the "number of bitcoin days destroyed" to go through the roof. Talk about a bizarre coincidence that I happened to be looking at the data almost right as this anomaly hit.
https://blockchain.info/charts/bitcoin-days-destroyed-min-year?timespan=all&showDataPoints=false&daysAverageString=1&show_header=true&scale=0&address=
I don't quite understand the entire function of the "Bitcoin days destroyed" metric, but it's essentially a filter of sorts. The way it works is if I have 100 bitcoins sitting in my wallet for a week and I trade them, that's 700 bitcoin days destroyed. If that same pile of 100 coins trades 500 times in a week, that's still 700 bitcoin days destroyed. The specific pile I saw move was sitting since March of 2011 (so 900 days or so) so that resulted in a gigantic spike in this figure. I'm going to guess that when we see a spike here we can find one of these long term savings accounts.
https://blockchain.info/charts/bitcoin-days-destroyed-min-year?timespan=all&showDataPoints=false&daysAverageString=1&show_header=true&scale=0&address=
I don't quite understand the entire function of the "Bitcoin days destroyed" metric, but it's essentially a filter of sorts. The way it works is if I have 100 bitcoins sitting in my wallet for a week and I trade them, that's 700 bitcoin days destroyed. If that same pile of 100 coins trades 500 times in a week, that's still 700 bitcoin days destroyed. The specific pile I saw move was sitting since March of 2011 (so 900 days or so) so that resulted in a gigantic spike in this figure. I'm going to guess that when we see a spike here we can find one of these long term savings accounts.
![[icon]](/data/avatars/m/5/5167.jpg?1660313464){kind=avatar}
Jojo the circus boy
Footballguy
Until he has the balls to post some of his
crap to /r/bitcoin I'm not going to bother commenting
Jojo the circus boy
Footballguy
I should clarify this, just like how Walmart doesn't accept VISA/MC directly but via a payment processor, bitcoin would be accepted similarly.
Tom Servo
Nittany Beavers
I'm sure they'll take to it as objectively as you have.Until he has the balls to post some of his
Oh, wait. You've probably have me on ignore so I guess you'll never see this.
Tom Servo
Nittany Beavers
Oh and BTW, the facts are the facts regardless of where they're posted. Or is it just that you feel outmanned and outgunned here and need help from your fellow BTC uberfans?Until he has the balls to post some of his
Well, I would say below 75. It's hard to say worthless <=75, because the rate can easily be manipulated with no oversight, such a large ownership in few hands and those hands wanting to keep the rate up. That said, below 75 to me means the total market value is low enough that it is inconsequential.
The "speculation index" indicates it should probably be somewhere between maybe 30 and 50 right now.
Transactions have risen some over the year, but nowhere near the price run up. When it was getting healthy growth from 5 to 11, the transaction to trade ratio was rising with it almost in lock step. Today price is rising almost exponentially compared to the transaction to trade ratio which indicates most of the price increase is due to people trading on exchanges and speculating. It's behaving entirely like a speculative commodity right now and absolutely nothing like a currency.
Now, as he admits the "speculation index" is a figure he made up himself and it's not entirely certain it means much. But you can definitely understand the logic he used here. And Garzik seems to think it might be worth something as well since he made a chart at his own site based off of the transaction to trade ratio and linked to the article.
Problems I see is that it doesn't take arms races into account. It doesn't take radical changes to technology like the ASICs into account where people are sinking millions to get coins. Because of the arms race, especially this latest one with the ASICs, you essentially turned miners into speculators of sorts as well that rely on the currency hyper deflating to recoup their investment. It's impossible for the coin to go to 30 or 50 now without the whole thing totally collapsing as no one is going to sink millions to mine coins worth 30 or 50. Basically, this economy is pretty screwed and it's virtually impossible for it to go back to acting like currency without everything imploding.
Last edited by a moderator:
Tom Servo
Nittany Beavers
J -
It would seem to me that the "boat" on this has sailed. The fact that there are a limited number of coins which become harder to mine and even harder still to use and store, means that someone like me who doesn't have any is likely screwed out of even getting into this. Am I reading that right?
Secondly, for it to be useful, why wouldn't it be easier to use and store them? After all, like you mentioned earlier, gold (or any precious metal) does not decay over time...or its representative paper is easily stored. Regardless of Jojo and his virtual wallets and balloon-accessible internet (
), the whole bitcoin access to Joe and Jane Sixpack seems rather limited.
I'll hang up and listen off-air.
It would seem to me that the "boat" on this has sailed. The fact that there are a limited number of coins which become harder to mine and even harder still to use and store, means that someone like me who doesn't have any is likely screwed out of even getting into this. Am I reading that right?
Secondly, for it to be useful, why wouldn't it be easier to use and store them? After all, like you mentioned earlier, gold (or any precious metal) does not decay over time...or its representative paper is easily stored. Regardless of Jojo and his virtual wallets and balloon-accessible internet (
), the whole bitcoin access to Joe and Jane Sixpack seems rather limited.I'll hang up and listen off-air.
Jojo the circus boy
Footballguy
It's pointless for me to comment on what you are calling factsOh and BTW, the facts are the facts regardless of where they're posted. Or is it just that you feel outmanned and outgunned here and need help from your fellow BTC uberfans?Until he has the balls to post some of his
. I've commented on his other posts that he has no context on the anonymous transactions. I'd bet his visual representation posts will be based on the same contextless data. If he wants criticism from people other than me he sure as hell is not getting it here so if he is so confident he knows what the hell he is talking about he should have no problem sharing his findings with a real forum, not in a thread full of a bunch of doomsayers that are going to nod their heads, pretend they know what he is talking about and go "mmmhmmm".
Last edited by a moderator:
Jojo the circus boy
Footballguy
Yep your get rich quick dreams off of bitcoin are gone, you can either keep #####ing about it and hoping it can fail since you cannot make money off of it or move on.
Yeah, that's a pretty solid summary overall. It's going to have to continue to rapidly deflate for anyone to make money off of it, including the miners. And it's going to have to become a whole heck of a lot more usable for that to happen. There's a few other ways you could get some - buying them off an exchange and protecting them yourself. And people with some reasonable technical ability should be able to pull this off, but there's no way I'd want my wife trying to do this. No one can be absolutely certain about what will happen at this point (which is why jojo's make a prediction game is stupid), but it seems far more likely that the bubble will crash and you'll lose most of the money you put into this as opposed to it becoming being something that makes your life better before that happens.J -
It would seem to me that the "boat" on this has sailed. The fact that there are a limited number of coins which become harder to mine and even harder still to use and store, means that someone like me who doesn't have any is likely screwed out of even getting into this. Am I reading that right?
Secondly, for it to be useful, why wouldn't it be easier to use and store them? After all, like you mentioned earlier, gold (or any precious metal) does not decay over time...or its representative paper is easily stored. Regardless of Jojo and his virtual wallets and balloon-accessible internet (
I'll hang up and listen off-air.
I definitely see some potential here, but it's very much like the .com bubble. People piling a bunch of money into something based on what it might actually do for us in the future as opposed to what it's actually capable of doing today. When the technology has actually developed to the point where it is useful to the average person, you'll probably want to put some money into it. But until that point it's a bunch of people speculating on what it might be able to do rather than what it's actually demonstrated it's capable of doing and seems virtually certain to come crashing down as a result. But should probably be reborn with a little more sense and sanity the next time around.
And that's without even considering the other problems like a tiny group of people owning almost all of this particular brand of it.
Problem is this means that most of the current bitcoin investors that have run this up are likely to move on since they're in it to make money by and large. The stories of the million dollar pizza and guy from Norway or whatever that forgot about a pile of them were floated for a reason. Many of the pro bitcoin sites and stories seem to romanticize stuff like this heavily. Even the bitcoin history page is pretty romanticized. You almost can't find a story that doesn't reference the gigantic prices and increases. The guy that shopped at the subway you referenced noted this was a good investment for them, partly because you had people driving 4 hours to get cookies, but of course because the bitcoin value could shortly double.
To pretend that this isn't happening demonstrates some serious bias.
Sarnoff
Footballguy
No. That won't happen.Here's mine. Bitcoin is the friendster of online decentralized currency. Something like litecoin will be the MySpace. Something to be introduced in 2014 is more likely to be the Facebook than Bitcoin will.
The main point is that it will bring enhanced visibility to the data over what you can currently find at Garzik's site. Number one it will improve the context of some of the numbers by allowing multiple metrics to be stacked on the same graph. And number two by allowing you to select a time period to zoom in on rather than having all numbers before 2013 look like 0. This should be useful to bitcoiners and non bitcoiners alike. I'll discuss some of the areas of concern to me, present other resources I've found that add more context, and we'll let the reader decide what they think of it. Bitcoiners have their own forum where they can and do shout down any of this sort of dissension. If any of my arguments are persuasive and get any coverage, I'm sure the bitcoiners will shout them down where they can.It's pointless for me to comment on what you are calling factsOh and BTW, the facts are the facts regardless of where they're posted. Or is it just that you feel outmanned and outgunned here and need help from your fellow BTC uberfans?Until he has the balls to post some of his
Jojo the circus boy
Footballguy
You are delusionally overconfident, please post your findings so we can see the "Bitcoiners shout down your facts".DrJ said:The main point is that it will bring enhanced visibility to the data over what you can currently find at Garzik's site. Number one it will improve the context of some of the numbers by allowing multiple metrics to be stacked on the same graph. And number two by allowing you to select a time period to zoom in on rather than having all numbers before 2013 look like 0. This should be useful to bitcoiners and non bitcoiners alike. I'll discuss some of the areas of concern to me, present other resources I've found that add more context, and we'll let the reader decide what they think of it. Bitcoiners have their own forum where they can and do shout down any of this sort of dissension. If any of my arguments are persuasive and get any coverage, I'm sure the bitcoiners will shout them down where they can.Jojo the circus boy said:It's pointless for me to comment on what you are calling factsTom Servo said:Oh and BTW, the facts are the facts regardless of where they're posted. Or is it just that you feel outmanned and outgunned here and need help from your fellow BTC uberfans?Until he has the balls to post some of his
Jojo the circus boy
Footballguy
Depends what kind of relationship Burns has with Walmart.Sarnoff said:
Here's mine. Bitcoin is the friendster of online decentralized currency. Something like litecoin will be the MySpace. Something to be introduced in 2014 is more likely to be the Facebook than Bitcoin will.
Circle Internet Financial hires former Walmart board member
Jojo the circus boy
Footballguy
Yep don't get it into, just keep showing off your raging jealousy for those that did and continue to root for Bitcoin to fail.
Jojo the circus boy
Footballguy
Right because that is exactly the same thing as posting about how crooked bitcoins are since "I cannot get rich off of it". But go ahead and keep pointing it out, I think this is your third time.
You are the most bitter of the group, I'm sensing some really deep seated jealously that you were not smart enough to get in on bitcoin when it was in its infancy.
Last edited by a moderator:
mad sweeney
Footballguy
I'm not jealous that I'm not involved in this scam. Just find it funny that the only posters blindly cheering it on are profiting from it
Really makes it look more like DrJ is right with his claims.
ETA: My comment also was aimed how you didn't have the balls to buy bitcoins before the massive runup and are now trying to make it off your sig.
Last edited by a moderator:
Maelstrom
Footballguy
I've said it before, people asking about making money does not immediately mean they will root for it to fail if they determine they cannot make money through Bitcoins. People thinking it is going to fail doesn't have to have anything to do with whether they can make money with it.
Tom Servo
Nittany Beavers
Coming from someone who has as many bitcoins as I do, that's rich.
Oh, not getting in is not the same as rooting for it to fail. You do realize they can be mutually exclusive, right?
Listen, you're either with the bitcoiners or you're against them. There's no middle ground.Coming from someone who has as many bitcoins as I do, that's rich.
Oh, not getting in is not the same as rooting for it to fail. You do realize they can be mutually exclusive, right?
Tom Servo
Nittany Beavers
I guess you, me, Slapdash & Maelstrom aren't drinking any kool-aid. Eh, it has too much sugar in it anyways...Listen, you're either with the bitcoiners or you're against them. There's no middle ground.Coming from someone who has as many bitcoins as I do, that's rich.
Oh, not getting in is not the same as rooting for it to fail. You do realize they can be mutually exclusive, right?
You can actually be a developer and entertain this idea as well. Garzik interview:
http://bensonsamuel.com/2013/02/19/talking-bitcoin-with-jeff-garzik/
And like Andreas pointed out in the interview jojo linked - forget about the price. They can just reboot it all if they screw up the money.
There are reasonable people on that side of the fence, it's just not a lot of them. And none of those guys are here.
