Bloom 100: 41-50 (1 Viewer)

[Sigmund Bloom]

41-50

Very interested to hear the defenses of most of this group - especially the QBs.

Also interested to hear anyone y'all think I'm remiss to leave out of the top 50.

 

[Chaos Commish]

To organize discussion and ease the searchability of prospects, I offer the following compilation. Apologies if I cut and pasted something inaccurately. I did need to see the big picture to consider the last 20 or so projections. Comments to follow after I have a chance to digest the whole 50.

Sheesh, Bloom, this is a mega project. Great work.

Bloom Top 50 (ppr)

1 (1) Jonathan Stewart RB Oregon

2 (2) Darren McFadden RB Arkansas

3 (3) Rashard Mendenhall RB Illinois

4 (5) Malcolm Kelly WR Oklahoma

5 (4) Ray Rice RB Rutgers

6 (8) Devin Thomas WR Michigan State

7 (6) Felix Jones RB Arkansas

8 (7) James Hardy WR Indiana

9 (9) Matt Ryan QB Boston College

10 (10) Jamaal Charles RB Texas

11 (11) Matt Forte RB Tulane

12 (12) Brian Brohm QB Louisville

13 (13) Donnie Avery WR Houston

14 (14) Earl Bennett WR Vanderbilt

15 (20) Early Doucet WR LSU

16 (18) Andre Caldwell WR Florida

17 (19) Keenan Burton WR Kentucky

18 (16) DeSean Jackson WR California

19 (15) Limas Sweed WR Texas

20 (17) Mario Manningham WR Michigan

21 (26) Jordy Nelson WR Kansas State

22 (25) Lavelle Hawkins WR California

23 (21) Curtis Lofton LB Oklahoma

24 (22) Josh Johnson QB San Diego

25 (27) Chris Johnson RB/WR East Carolina

26 (24) Kevin Smith RB Central Florida

27 (23) Dan Connor LB Penn State

28 (28) Steve Slaton RB West Virginia

29 (29) Mike Hart RB Michigan

30 (30) Tashard Choice RB Georgia Tech

31 (35) Dustin Keller TE Purdue

32 (31) Jerod Mayo LB Tennessee

33 (36) Jerome Simpson WR Coastal Carolina

34 (32) Keith Rivers LB USC

35 (33) Chris Long DE Virginia

36 (34) Xavier Adibi LB Virginia Techa

37 (37) Quentin Groves LB Auburn

38 (40) Fred Davis TE USC

39 (39) Adarius Bowman WR Oklahoma State

40 (38) Philip Wheeler LB Georgia Tech

41(41) Xavier Omon RB NW Missouri State

42(42) Chad Henne QB Michigan

43(43) Joe Flacco QB Delaware

44(45) Beau Bell LB UNLV

45(48) Darius Reynaud WR West Virginia

46(46) Vernon Gholston DE Ohio State

47(44) BenJarvus Green-Ellis RB Ole Miss

48(47) Dennis Dixon QB Oregon

49(49) Eddie Royal WR Virginia Tech

50(50) Jermichael Finley TE Texas

RBs

1 (1) Jonathan Stewart RB Oregon

2 (2) Darren McFadden RB Arkansas

3 (3) Rashard Mendenhall RB Illinois

5 (4) Ray Rice RB Rutgers

7 (6) Felix Jones RB Arkansas

10 (10) Jamaal Charles RB Texas

11 (11) Matt Forte RB Tulane

25 (27) Chris Johnson RB/WR East Carolina

26 (24) Kevin Smith RB Central Florida28

28 (28) Steve Slaton RB West Virginia

29 (29) Mike Hart RB Michigan

30 (30) Tashard Choice RB Georgia Tech

41(41) Xavier Omon RB NW Missouri State

47(44) BenJarvus Green-Ellis RB Ole Miss



WRs

4 (5) Malcolm Kelly WR Oklahoma

6 (8) Devin Thomas WR Michigan State

8 (7) James Hardy WR Indiana

13 (13) Donnie Avery WR Houston

14 (14) Earl Bennett WR Vanderbilt

15 (20) Early Doucet WR LSU

16 (18) Andre Caldwell WR Florida

17 (19) Keenan Burton WR Kentucky

18 (16) DeSean Jackson WR California

19 (15) Limas Sweed WR Texas

20 (17) Mario Manningham WR Michigan

21 (26) Jordy Nelson WR Kansas State

22 (25) Lavelle Hawkins WR California

33 (36) Jerome Simpson WR Coastal Carolina

39 (39) Adarius Bowman WR Oklahoma State

45(48) Darius Reynaud WR West Virginia

49(49) Eddie Royal WR Virginia Tech



QBs

9 (9) Matt Ryan QB Boston College

12 (12) Brian Brohm QB Louisville

24 (22) Josh Johnson QB San Diego

42(42) Chad Henne QB Michigan

43(43) Joe Flacco QB Delaware

48(47) Dennis Dixon QB Oregon



TEs

31 (35) Dustin Keller TE Purdue

38 (40) Fred Davis TE USC

50(50) Jermichael Finley TE Texas

IDPs

23 (21) Curtis Lofton LB Oklahoma

27 (23) Dan Connor LB Penn State

32 (31) Jerod Mayo LB Tennessee

34 (32) Keith Rivers LB USC

35 (33) Chris Long DE Virginia

36 (34) Xavier Adibi LB Virginia Techa

37 (37) Quentin Groves LB Auburn

40 (38) Philip Wheeler LB Georgia Tech

44(45) Beau Bell LB UNLV

46(46) Vernon Gholston DE Ohio State

 

[comfortably numb]

THANKS CC!

Helps alot

 

[FUBAR]

surprised not to see the TE from Notre Dame, John Carlson in the top 50.

He might not be the quickest athlete, but he's a decent blocker with good hands.

FWIW, I'm thinking I'd have him close to Davis, not quite with Keller's upside.

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

CC is the man.

FYI all, the non-PPR is a work in progress. I planned on surveying it after the initial 100 is done and re-ranking because I still primarily think of these guys in PPR terms.

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

surprised not to see the TE from Notre Dame, John Carlson in the top 50. He might not be the quickest athlete, but he's a decent blocker with good hands.FWIW, I'm thinking I'd have him close to Davis, not quite with Keller's upside.

I like Carlson. He's coming up soon. I don't see that much upside for him as a fantasy TE, maybe Eric Johnson, but not a main target in a passing offense. I'll get more in depth when he comes up, which will be in the next installment (51-75). There's still a few other interesting TEs left to talk about in addition to Carlson, including Martellus Bennett who was brought up in the 31-40 thread.

 

[Orgazmo]

Still no Parmele. I guess I'm backing the wrong dark horse.

 

[loose circuits]

not sure why people have Omon so much higher than Danny Woodhead. Woodhead won the HH 2X and posted some ridiculous pro day numbers

Also curious as to why no Allen Patrick? Did Omon look that much better in practices?

 

[mcintyre1]

not sure why people have Omon so much higher than Danny Woodhead. Woodhead won the HH 2X and posted some ridiculous pro day numbersAlso curious as to why no Allen Patrick? Did Omon look that much better in practices?

Totally agree on Woodhead. I was going to say something, but figured I'd get made fun of. Bloom praises Omon for putting up 4 years of 1500 yards rushing, which Woodhead also did. In fact, his lowest total was 2007 when he was injured when he ran for 1597 yards. Sure, he's not 220 or whatever Omon is, but he's a very solid 200 (5'7")

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

Still no Parmele. I guess I'm backing the wrong dark horse.

Parmele is coming up. he's not that far below Omon and BJGE as an overall prospect, but I don't think he has quite the lower body power of those two.

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

not sure why people have Omon so much higher than Danny Woodhead. Woodhead won the HH 2X and posted some ridiculous pro day numbersAlso curious as to why no Allen Patrick? Did Omon look that much better in practices?

Patrick did not look good at all in the Shrine Game practices and I've never been completely sold on him as a very good pro prospect, certainly not enough to put him in the top 50.

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

not sure why people have Omon so much higher than Danny Woodhead. Woodhead won the HH 2X and posted some ridiculous pro day numbersAlso curious as to why no Allen Patrick? Did Omon look that much better in practices?

Totally agree on Woodhead. I was going to say something, but figured I'd get made fun of. Bloom praises Omon for putting up 4 years of 1500 yards rushing, which Woodhead also did. In fact, his lowest total was 2007 when he was injured when he ran for 1597 yards. Sure, he's not 220 or whatever Omon is, but he's a very solid 200 (5'7")

Im rooting for Woodhead, but he looked out of his league even at the Hula Bowl and I just don't think his game is going to translate except maybe as a gimmick/novelty kind of player/returner.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

I'm sorry, I was high on Bowman early, but the dude hasn't run under a 4.75 in the post-season and hasn't been able to catch a cold.

I can't see how he's even draftable at this point - by the NFL or fantasy players.

I love seeing Brohm that high. I think he's getting a raw deal by a lot of draftniks.

 

[Chaos Commish]

I'm sorry, I was high on Bowman early, but the dude hasn't run under a 4.75 in the post-season and hasn't been able to catch a cold.I can't see how he's even draftable at this point - by the NFL or fantasy players.I love seeing Brohm that high. I think he's getting a raw deal by a lot of draftniks.

Agree 100%. How 'bout that? Here, you can even have one of these.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

I'm sorry, I was high on Bowman early, but the dude hasn't run under a 4.75 in the post-season and hasn't been able to catch a cold.I can't see how he's even draftable at this point - by the NFL or fantasy players.I love seeing Brohm that high. I think he's getting a raw deal by a lot of draftniks.

Agree 100%. How 'bout that? Here, you can even have one of these.

Blind pigs and mushrooms...

 

[Chaos Commish]

I'm sorry, I was high on Bowman early, but the dude hasn't run under a 4.75 in the post-season and hasn't been able to catch a cold.I can't see how he's even draftable at this point - by the NFL or fantasy players.I love seeing Brohm that high. I think he's getting a raw deal by a lot of draftniks.

Agree 100%. How 'bout that? Here, you can even have one of these.

Blind pigs and mushrooms...

Bowman is a cautionary tale. It is hard to fathom how incredible he played two seasons ago at OSU after being a very disappointing five star recruit popped for drugs at North Carolina... and how he looks now. To a lesser degree the same can be said of Slaton. When the 2009 threads start getting more attention, I'll be there saying it's too early for so much conviction. I figure you have to expect 32-35 WRs will get drafted, and considering many of them are looked at for special teams and speed, this isn't looking good for Bowman. I read somewhere HBack and TE are being considered. That sounds like a message that he's not NFL WR quality. What he can do is catch anything and physically dominate college corners. I think he probably will get drafted very late, 6th or 7th round. On Brohm, I get a little confused when those ranking Ryan top of the class downgrade Brohm considerably... because of interceptions. Ryan threw and will throw many more than Brohm given the exact same circumstances, imo. I see those two neck and neck, neither with a pure franchise grade, and I only prefer Ryan because he makes big plays. I'm not always smart when it comes to playmakers vs solid but slightly boring players, and at QB, the slightly boring guy may actually be the better choice. I see a ton of Brees in Brohm.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

On Brohm, I get a little confused when those ranking Ryan top of the class downgrade Brohm considerably... because of interceptions. Ryan threw and will throw many more than Brohm given the exact same circumstances, imo. I see those two neck and neck, neither with a pure franchise grade, and I only prefer Ryan because he makes big plays. I'm not always smart when it comes to playmakers vs solid but slightly boring players, and at QB, the slightly boring guy may actually be the better choice. I see a ton of Brees in Brohm.

For me, the interception totals don't bother me all that much. Both Ryan and Brohm were under the spotlight this year as guys that were supposed to lead their teams to big success. Unfortunately for both of them, the rest of their teammates either didn't get the message or weren't blessed with much talent.All that did was place the burden of success more squarely on their shoulders. I think that caused them to take chances with passes that they normally wouldn't make since if they don't make the play, nobody's going to. On a pro team, where the responsibility is more evenly shared and everybody's at least pretty good, I think they're going to have great success in the NFL. In other words, in the college ranks I'd rather have a guy throw a pick trying to make a play than have a pick occur because of a bad read and/or lack of arm.

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

41-50

Very interested to hear the defenses of most of this group - especially the QBs.

Also interested to hear anyone y'all think I'm remiss to leave out of the top 50.

Since you asked and I've learned a few things on Flacco, I'll throw in a defense for him.I won't talk about his arm strength - there's no question he has a cannon - but that's way overrated.

In talking with TESST sports (where he trained for the combine and also for his Pro Day), they basically told me that he's a smart kid and an incredibly hard worker. That only goes so far, of course.

I appreciate your opinion of him Bloom, and I didn't see directly what you saw first-hand, but there are two things I'd mention.

First, you point out that he doesn't move well. Well, I'd actually counter that by saying that he has deceptive speed. He's no VY or Vick running back there, but he did win the QB scramble portion of the QB challenge that ESPN does around Senior Week and by a pretty good margin. Even the commentators there said he didn't look very quick - but he went first and his time held up by quite a margin.

Now, it was a skills competition, and it isn't the combine, but everything is an audition from January to April. He did quite well.

Following this up are his Combine numbers - he has the fifth best QB 40 time (sub-4.8) and the best 3-cone (6.82) of any QB that did it. That's pretty good (and I'd say the 3-cone is more indicative of what he'd need in the NFL than a 40-time).

The second point is that you allude to a franchise handing him the keys. Not sure how serious you were there, but even I'd agree that this is a mistake. I would hope that he lands somewhere where he can take 2-3 years (a la Aaron Rodgers or Tony Romo) and learn to be a pro QB. If he does that, I think that team would wind up with a very good quality QB that could be a productive starter in 2010.

Possible good homes for him would be with teams that have older but solid QBs and good coaching - I think Seattle leads that list. One really dark horse would by Indy - which would really boost Flacco's value, IMHO, for the long term.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

The second point is that you allude to a franchise handing him the keys. Not sure how serious you were there, but even I'd agree that this is a mistake. I would hope that he lands somewhere where he can take 2-3 years (a la Aaron Rodgers or Tony Romo) and learn to be a pro QB. If he does that, I think that team would wind up with a very good quality QB that could be a productive starter in 2010.

I think that could be said about ANY quarterback. Anymore I just don't think it's possible for a rookie QB to start right away and succeed.Who was the last one to do so?

 

[Chaos Commish]

41-50

Very interested to hear the defenses of most of this group - especially the QBs.

Also interested to hear anyone y'all think I'm remiss to leave out of the top 50.

Since you asked and I've learned a few things on Flacco, I'll throw in a defense for him.I won't talk about his arm strength - there's no question he has a cannon - but that's way overrated.

In talking with TESST sports (where he trained for the combine and also for his Pro Day), they basically told me that he's a smart kid and an incredibly hard worker. That only goes so far, of course.

I appreciate your opinion of him Bloom, and I didn't see directly what you saw first-hand, but there are two things I'd mention.

First, you point out that he doesn't move well. Well, I'd actually counter that by saying that he has deceptive speed. He's no VY or Vick running back there, but he did win the QB scramble portion of the QB challenge that ESPN does around Senior Week and by a pretty good margin. Even the commentators there said he didn't look very quick - but he went first and his time held up by quite a margin.

Now, it was a skills competition, and it isn't the combine, but everything is an audition from January to April. He did quite well.

Following this up are his Combine numbers - he has the fifth best QB 40 time (sub-4.8) and the best 3-cone (6.82) of any QB that did it. That's pretty good (and I'd say the 3-cone is more indicative of what he'd need in the NFL than a 40-time).

The second point is that you allude to a franchise handing him the keys. Not sure how serious you were there, but even I'd agree that this is a mistake. I would hope that he lands somewhere where he can take 2-3 years (a la Aaron Rodgers or Tony Romo) and learn to be a pro QB. If he does that, I think that team would wind up with a very good quality QB that could be a productive starter in 2010.

Possible good homes for him would be with teams that have older but solid QBs and good coaching - I think Seattle leads that list. One really dark horse would by Indy - which would really boost Flacco's value, IMHO, for the long term.

Thanks. I have a hard time discussing him because I haven't seen him play. My approach was to go back a couple years and start reading up on him. How he was so far under my radar is odd because I usually fish around for guys like this. He isn't a johnny come lately. He has been quite highly regarded for well over a year. So my concern that he was a one year small college wonder is not valid, not that I ever voiced the concern. Cecil has a big problem with all the sacks he took. From what I have seen online he has enough speed, and he accelerates out of harms way nicely -- I like his form on the move with his eyes downfield. So the sack problem is probably pocket awareness and as David Carr has shown us that can be nearly impossible to teach.

 

[Chaos Commish]

The second point is that you allude to a franchise handing him the keys. Not sure how serious you were there, but even I'd agree that this is a mistake. I would hope that he lands somewhere where he can take 2-3 years (a la Aaron Rodgers or Tony Romo) and learn to be a pro QB. If he does that, I think that team would wind up with a very good quality QB that could be a productive starter in 2010.

I think that could be said about ANY quarterback. Anymore I just don't think it's possible for a rookie QB to start right away and succeed.Who was the last one to do so?

Guess it depends on your definition of succeeding, but Young and Cutler both performed admirably as legit NFL QBs during their rookie seasons. They certainly had growing pains, but the Titans had little choice and Shanny made his.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

The second point is that you allude to a franchise handing him the keys. Not sure how serious you were there, but even I'd agree that this is a mistake. I would hope that he lands somewhere where he can take 2-3 years (a la Aaron Rodgers or Tony Romo) and learn to be a pro QB. If he does that, I think that team would wind up with a very good quality QB that could be a productive starter in 2010.

I think that could be said about ANY quarterback. Anymore I just don't think it's possible for a rookie QB to start right away and succeed.Who was the last one to do so?

Guess it depends on your definition of succeeding, but Young and Cutler both performed admirably as legit NFL QBs during their rookie seasons. They certainly had growing pains, but the Titans had little choice and Shanny made his.

Cutler didn't start right away though. Even he waited eight or so games, right?I guess I can buy Vince Young. He won, but won ugly.

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

The second point is that you allude to a franchise handing him the keys. Not sure how serious you were there, but even I'd agree that this is a mistake. I would hope that he lands somewhere where he can take 2-3 years (a la Aaron Rodgers or Tony Romo) and learn to be a pro QB. If he does that, I think that team would wind up with a very good quality QB that could be a productive starter in 2010.

I think that could be said about ANY quarterback. Anymore I just don't think it's possible for a rookie QB to start right away and succeed.Who was the last one to do so?

Big Ben.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

The second point is that you allude to a franchise handing him the keys. Not sure how serious you were there, but even I'd agree that this is a mistake. I would hope that he lands somewhere where he can take 2-3 years (a la Aaron Rodgers or Tony Romo) and learn to be a pro QB. If he does that, I think that team would wind up with a very good quality QB that could be a productive starter in 2010.

I think that could be said about ANY quarterback. Anymore I just don't think it's possible for a rookie QB to start right away and succeed.Who was the last one to do so?

Big Ben.

Good one. Maybe not as rare as I thought.

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

The second point is that you allude to a franchise handing him the keys. Not sure how serious you were there, but even I'd agree that this is a mistake. I would hope that he lands somewhere where he can take 2-3 years (a la Aaron Rodgers or Tony Romo) and learn to be a pro QB. If he does that, I think that team would wind up with a very good quality QB that could be a productive starter in 2010.

I think that could be said about ANY quarterback. Anymore I just don't think it's possible for a rookie QB to start right away and succeed.Who was the last one to do so?

Big Ben.

Good one. Maybe not as rare as I thought.

Case in point, though - he was supported very well by a good coach and a reduced playbook, plus a very good ground game and defense on the other side of the ball.It can be done, but the situation / coaching really dictates the success rate IMHO.

 

[comfortably numb]

The second point is that you allude to a franchise handing him the keys. Not sure how serious you were there, but even I'd agree that this is a mistake. I would hope that he lands somewhere where he can take 2-3 years (a la Aaron Rodgers or Tony Romo) and learn to be a pro QB. If he does that, I think that team would wind up with a very good quality QB that could be a productive starter in 2010.

I think that could be said about ANY quarterback. Anymore I just don't think it's possible for a rookie QB to start right away and succeed.Who was the last one to do so?

Big Ben.

Good one. Maybe not as rare as I thought.

Case in point, though - he was supported very well by a good coach and a reduced playbook, plus a very good ground game and defense on the other side of the ball.It can be done, but the situation / coaching really dictates the success rate IMHO.

Not to get too technical but Big Ben sat the 1st game, came in week 2 and never looked back Recent QB's to start week 1 as a rookiePManningCarrHarringtonYoungCMcnownStart by week 2Big BenLeftwichNot sure if i missed anyone?

 

[identikit]

The second point is that you allude to a franchise handing him the keys. Not sure how serious you were there, but even I'd agree that this is a mistake. I would hope that he lands somewhere where he can take 2-3 years (a la Aaron Rodgers or Tony Romo) and learn to be a pro QB. If he does that, I think that team would wind up with a very good quality QB that could be a productive starter in 2010.

I think that could be said about ANY quarterback. Anymore I just don't think it's possible for a rookie QB to start right away and succeed.Who was the last one to do so?

Big Ben.

Good one. Maybe not as rare as I thought.

Case in point, though - he was supported very well by a good coach and a reduced playbook, plus a very good ground game and defense on the other side of the ball.It can be done, but the situation / coaching really dictates the success rate IMHO.

Not to get too technical but Big Ben sat the 1st game, came in week 2 and never looked back Recent QB's to start week 1 as a rookie

PManning

Carr

Harrington

Young

CMcnown

Start by week 2

Big Ben

Leftwich

Not sure if i missed anyone?

Which Young?

Id

 

[comfortably numb]

The second point is that you allude to a franchise handing him the keys. Not sure how serious you were there, but even I'd agree that this is a mistake. I would hope that he lands somewhere where he can take 2-3 years (a la Aaron Rodgers or Tony Romo) and learn to be a pro QB. If he does that, I think that team would wind up with a very good quality QB that could be a productive starter in 2010.

I think that could be said about ANY quarterback. Anymore I just don't think it's possible for a rookie QB to start right away and succeed.Who was the last one to do so?

Big Ben.

Good one. Maybe not as rare as I thought.

Case in point, though - he was supported very well by a good coach and a reduced playbook, plus a very good ground game and defense on the other side of the ball.It can be done, but the situation / coaching really dictates the success rate IMHO.

Not to get too technical but Big Ben sat the 1st game, came in week 2 and never looked back Recent QB's to start week 1 as a rookie

PManning

Carr

Harrington

Young

CMcnown

Start by week 2

Big Ben

Leftwich

Not sure if i missed anyone?

Which Young?

Id

The one that isn't getting paid from his 6 year career in the USFL

 

[FTRWRTR]

Two big omits that stand out to me are justin forsett and andre woodson

IMO ppl are being to harsh on woodson. The biggest criteria should be what a player does in games and for most of last year woodson played well enough to be a contender for the heisman. I know he's a bit of a project at the pro level but no way he'll be drafted after johnson or dixon

Forsett was productive as lynch's backup at cal, productive as a featured rb this past season and productive in the all star games. Now I know he's only 5'8", 190 and runs a 4.54/40 but let me introduce you to another rb who was very productive in college and at the combine came in at 5'9", 195 and ran a 4.54/40. I believe you know him, his name is ahmad bradshaw

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

Two big omits that stand out to me are justin forsett and andre woodsonIMO ppl are being to harsh on woodson. The biggest criteria should be what a player does in games and for most of last year woodson played well enough to be a contender for the heisman. I know he's a bit of a project at the pro level but no way he'll be drafted after johnson or dixonForsett was productive as lynch's backup at cal, productive as a featured rb this past season and productive in the all star games. Now I know he's only 5'8", 190 and runs a 4.54/40 but let me introduce you to another rb who was very productive in college and at the combine came in at 5'9", 195 and ran a 4.54/40. I believe you know him, his name is ahmad bradshaw

Woodson probably won't go after Dixon, but I bet Johnson goes before him (he should). I do think Woodson is more in line with the type QB of that goes in the 3rd/4th and maybe gets a shot if he develops well as opposed to the kind that goes in the 1st/2nd and almost always gets a shot with their first organization.I really really like Forsett's game. He's coming up. I just think he doesn't have the ability to actually stick in a big role because of his size - I think he's a better RB than BGE, but the ability to carve out a larger role carries a lot of weight in these rankings. It's why Dexter Jackson also hasn't appeared yet.

 

[FUBAR]

The second point is that you allude to a franchise handing him the keys. Not sure how serious you were there, but even I'd agree that this is a mistake. I would hope that he lands somewhere where he can take 2-3 years (a la Aaron Rodgers or Tony Romo) and learn to be a pro QB. If he does that, I think that team would wind up with a very good quality QB that could be a productive starter in 2010.

I think that could be said about ANY quarterback. Anymore I just don't think it's possible for a rookie QB to start right away and succeed.Who was the last one to do so?

Big Ben.

Good one. Maybe not as rare as I thought.

Case in point, though - he was supported very well by a good coach and a reduced playbook, plus a very good ground game and defense on the other side of the ball.It can be done, but the situation / coaching really dictates the success rate IMHO.

Not to get too technical but Big Ben sat the 1st game, came in week 2 and never looked back Recent QB's to start week 1 as a rookie

PManning

Carr

Harrington

Young

CMcnown

Start by week 2

Big Ben

Leftwich

Not sure if i missed anyone?

Which Young?

Id

The one that isn't getting paid from his 6 year career in the USFL

Vince didn't start week 1.

 

[comfortably numb]

The second point is that you allude to a franchise handing him the keys. Not sure how serious you were there, but even I'd agree that this is a mistake. I would hope that he lands somewhere where he can take 2-3 years (a la Aaron Rodgers or Tony Romo) and learn to be a pro QB. If he does that, I think that team would wind up with a very good quality QB that could be a productive starter in 2010.

I think that could be said about ANY quarterback. Anymore I just don't think it's possible for a rookie QB to start right away and succeed.Who was the last one to do so?

Big Ben.

Good one. Maybe not as rare as I thought.

Case in point, though - he was supported very well by a good coach and a reduced playbook, plus a very good ground game and defense on the other side of the ball.It can be done, but the situation / coaching really dictates the success rate IMHO.

Not to get too technical but Big Ben sat the 1st game, came in week 2 and never looked back Recent QB's to start week 1 as a rookie

PManning

Carr

Harrington

Young

CMcnown

Start by week 2

Big Ben

Leftwich

Not sure if i missed anyone?

Which Young?

Id

The one that isn't getting paid from his 6 year career in the USFL

Vince didn't start week 1.

3/4 27 ydsGood point, he may have come in in the 4th?

 

[FTRWRTR]

Woodson probably won't go after Dixon, but I bet Johnson goes before him (he should). I do think Woodson is more in line with the type QB of that goes in the 3rd/4th and maybe gets a shot if he develops well as opposed to the kind that goes in the 1st/2nd and almost always gets a shot with their first organization.

I'll take your word for it that johnson is incredibly talented but all the talent in the world won't make up for the fact he weighs only 198lbs at 6'3". That's too skinny for a qb and I can't see a team taking him in the 2nd or 3rd rounds. Especially not after the failed brodie croyle experiment in kc.

 

[Jeff Tefertiller]

Woodson probably won't go after Dixon, but I bet Johnson goes before him (he should). I do think Woodson is more in line with the type QB of that goes in the 3rd/4th and maybe gets a shot if he develops well as opposed to the kind that goes in the 1st/2nd and almost always gets a shot with their first organization.

I'll take your word for it that johnson is incredibly talented but all the talent in the world won't make up for the fact he weighs only 198lbs at 6'3". That's too skinny for a qb and I can't see a team taking him in the 2nd or 3rd rounds. Especially not after the failed brodie croyle experiment in kc.

John Beck was drafted in the 2nd round, 40th pick overall, last year and was very thin. I know the Dolphins listed Beck over 200 pounds, but that guy was very thin. He has already gained 12 pounds this offseason.

 

[Bri]

The Xman intrigues me

 

[loose circuits]

Woodson probably won't go after Dixon, but I bet Johnson goes before him (he should). I do think Woodson is more in line with the type QB of that goes in the 3rd/4th and maybe gets a shot if he develops well as opposed to the kind that goes in the 1st/2nd and almost always gets a shot with their first organization.

I'll take your word for it that johnson is incredibly talented but all the talent in the world won't make up for the fact he weighs only 198lbs at 6'3". That's too skinny for a qb and I can't see a team taking him in the 2nd or 3rd rounds. Especially not after the failed brodie croyle experiment in kc.

can we really say that Brodie Croyle experiment is a failure? I mean the guy was a mid-round pick in his 2nd year. I think it is unfair to write him off just yet. It's like if a player doesn't come out firing and throw for 3500 yards in their 1st year starting we should just move on. I just don't understand how quickly people write off guys like Croyle, Beck, Tarvaris, etc... It's not like they have looked like David Carr nor have they had great supporting casts.

 

[mcintyre1]

I just saw that Xavier Omon is also a Nebraska boy... played for a High school in my district even. Feel a little bad railing on him in favor of Woodhead now

 

[Mister CIA]

41-50

Very interested to hear the defenses of most of this group - especially the QBs.

Also interested to hear anyone y'all think I'm remiss to leave out of the top 50.

I probably devote about 2% of the time you do to researching the draft, but I think Kellen Davis (TE, Michigan State) is a glaring omission from your top 50. He gets an A- on the eyeball test; his combine performance was stellar; and he consistently got down field for 20+ yard catches in his senior year. He also played a little defensive end, the versatility of which leads me to believe that a team needing a TE will reach a little (say the third round). As a Saints fan, I'd like to see them draft him. Were he to go to New Orleans or Seattle, I could see this guy "skyrocketing" up the top 100 charts.

 

[Maroney=Speed]

41-50

Very interested to hear the defenses of most of this group - especially the QBs.

Also interested to hear anyone y'all think I'm remiss to leave out of the top 50.

I probably devote about 2% of the time you do to researching the draft, but I think Kellen Davis (TE, Michigan State) is a glaring omission from your top 50. He gets an A- on the eyeball test; his combine performance was stellar; and he consistently got down field for 20+ yard catches in his senior year. He also played a little defensive end, the versatility of which leads me to believe that a team needing a TE will reach a little (say the third round). As a Saints fan, I'd like to see them draft him. Were he to go to New Orleans or Seattle, I could see this guy "skyrocketing" up the top 100 charts.

WOW. Kellen Davis (TE, Michigan State) not in top 50? To be honest after the first 10, I didn't check in after that.

Kellen has to be in the top 20. No?

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

41-50

Very interested to hear the defenses of most of this group - especially the QBs.

Also interested to hear anyone y'all think I'm remiss to leave out of the top 50.

I probably devote about 2% of the time you do to researching the draft, but I think Kellen Davis (TE, Michigan State) is a glaring omission from your top 50. He gets an A- on the eyeball test; his combine performance was stellar; and he consistently got down field for 20+ yard catches in his senior year. He also played a little defensive end, the versatility of which leads me to believe that a team needing a TE will reach a little (say the third round). As a Saints fan, I'd like to see them draft him. Were he to go to New Orleans or Seattle, I could see this guy "skyrocketing" up the top 100 charts.

WOW. Kellen Davis (TE, Michigan State) not in top 50? To be honest after the first 10, I didn't check in after that.

Kellen has to be in the top 20. No?

Davis is a sick athlete, but he doesn't look natural catching the ball and doesn't always play with that fire in his belly. If you like boom/bust he should be a lot higher, but I think there are at least 3 or 4 TEs in this class that are better natural receivers than Davis even if they aren't athletic specimens.

 

[Cecil Lammey]

not sure why people have Omon so much higher than Danny Woodhead. Woodhead won the HH 2X and posted some ridiculous pro day numbersAlso curious as to why no Allen Patrick? Did Omon look that much better in practices?

I was excited to see Allen Patrick up close at the Shrine Game practices, and came away extremely disappointed. Check out our recaps of practice over at Draftguys.Patrick was too concerned with fumbling the football, looked hesitant, and lacked vision. In El Paso Xavier Omon stood out every day. He ran with the power and determination that made him a star in college. Omon is a very instinctive runner and knows how to set up defenders with the slightest of moves.I have 4 games of coaches tape of Danny Woodhead. These games are: Washburn, Wayne St (NE), Northern Colorado, and Colorado School of Mines. I will release my notes on these games in the shark pool, but here's my initial impression: Woodhead is a priority free agent that can make a team as a special teams ace. The first thing that stands out about DW is the fact he needs OPEN space to manuever. He doesn't have the classic "make you miss" ability like some other runners. he cannot create this space on his own and gets swallowed up by the defense a lot.in the open space he will KILL you though. He does a nice job of accelerating through the hole and has a burst to make defenders take bad angles. more notes from those games to come.

 

[Maroney=Speed]

41-50

Very interested to hear the defenses of most of this group - especially the QBs.

Also interested to hear anyone y'all think I'm remiss to leave out of the top 50.

I probably devote about 2% of the time you do to researching the draft, but I think Kellen Davis (TE, Michigan State) is a glaring omission from your top 50. He gets an A- on the eyeball test; his combine performance was stellar; and he consistently got down field for 20+ yard catches in his senior year. He also played a little defensive end, the versatility of which leads me to believe that a team needing a TE will reach a little (say the third round). As a Saints fan, I'd like to see them draft him. Were he to go to New Orleans or Seattle, I could see this guy "skyrocketing" up the top 100 charts.

WOW. Kellen Davis (TE, Michigan State) not in top 50? To be honest after the first 10, I didn't check in after that.

Kellen has to be in the top 20. No?

Davis is a sick athlete, but he doesn't look natural catching the ball and doesn't always play with that fire in his belly. If you like boom/bust he should be a lot higher, but I think there are at least 3 or 4 TEs in this class that are better natural receivers than Davis even if they aren't athletic specimens.

So your saying Kellen Davis is undraftable. In a 12 team League. You wouldn't pick this guy in the first 4 rounds? Thats crazy. He has to be at least a 3 rd rounder. I have Him in my top 20, maybe to high. But Davis has to be in everyones top 36, No?

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

41-50

Very interested to hear the defenses of most of this group - especially the QBs.

Also interested to hear anyone y'all think I'm remiss to leave out of the top 50.

I probably devote about 2% of the time you do to researching the draft, but I think Kellen Davis (TE, Michigan State) is a glaring omission from your top 50. He gets an A- on the eyeball test; his combine performance was stellar; and he consistently got down field for 20+ yard catches in his senior year. He also played a little defensive end, the versatility of which leads me to believe that a team needing a TE will reach a little (say the third round). As a Saints fan, I'd like to see them draft him. Were he to go to New Orleans or Seattle, I could see this guy "skyrocketing" up the top 100 charts.

WOW. Kellen Davis (TE, Michigan State) not in top 50? To be honest after the first 10, I didn't check in after that.

Kellen has to be in the top 20. No?

Davis is a sick athlete, but he doesn't look natural catching the ball and doesn't always play with that fire in his belly. If you like boom/bust he should be a lot higher, but I think there are at least 3 or 4 TEs in this class that are better natural receivers than Davis even if they aren't athletic specimens.

So your saying Kellen Davis is undraftable. In a 12 team League. You wouldn't pick this guy in the first 4 rounds? Thats crazy. He has to be at least a 3 rd rounder. I have Him in my top 20, maybe to high. But Davis has to be in everyones top 36, No?

Dustin Keller and Fred Davis should go before him in every rookie draft, and probably John Carlson. I like Jermichael Finley better among the boom/bust guys, I like Martin Rucker slightly better of the athletic, but not as fluid guys. There's also a good argument for Martellus Bennett to go higher than Davis. I don't know about undraftable, but its hard to crack the top 36 in this deep class of WR and RB.

 

[Maroney=Speed]

41-50

Very interested to hear the defenses of most of this group - especially the QBs.

Also interested to hear anyone y'all think I'm remiss to leave out of the top 50.

I probably devote about 2% of the time you do to researching the draft, but I think Kellen Davis (TE, Michigan State) is a glaring omission from your top 50. He gets an A- on the eyeball test; his combine performance was stellar; and he consistently got down field for 20+ yard catches in his senior year. He also played a little defensive end, the versatility of which leads me to believe that a team needing a TE will reach a little (say the third round). As a Saints fan, I'd like to see them draft him. Were he to go to New Orleans or Seattle, I could see this guy "skyrocketing" up the top 100 charts.

WOW. Kellen Davis (TE, Michigan State) not in top 50? To be honest after the first 10, I didn't check in after that.

Kellen has to be in the top 20. No?

Davis is a sick athlete, but he doesn't look natural catching the ball and doesn't always play with that fire in his belly. If you like boom/bust he should be a lot higher, but I think there are at least 3 or 4 TEs in this class that are better natural receivers than Davis even if they aren't athletic specimens.

So your saying Kellen Davis is undraftable. In a 12 team League. You wouldn't pick this guy in the first 4 rounds? Thats crazy. He has to be at least a 3 rd rounder. I have Him in my top 20, maybe to high. But Davis has to be in everyones top 36, No?

Dustin Keller and Fred Davis should go before him in every rookie draft, and probably John Carlson. I like Jermichael Finley better among the boom/bust guys, I like Martin Rucker slightly better of the athletic, but not as fluid guys. There's also a good argument for Martellus Bennett to go higher than Davis. I don't know about undraftable, but its hard to crack the top 36 in this deep class of WR and RB.

I have Davis ranked #1 at TE, you have Him ranked #7, correct? That is the differents. That explains it.Thanks

 

[Chaos Commish]

Dustin Keller and Fred Davis should go before him in every rookie draft, and probably John Carlson. I like Jermichael Finley better among the boom/bust guys, I like Martin Rucker slightly better of the athletic, but not as fluid guys. There's also a good argument for Martellus Bennett to go higher than Davis. I don't know about undraftable, but its hard to crack the top 36 in this deep class of WR and RB.

The 07 mystery theme runs as deep at TE as it does anywhere in this draft. There's 10, count 'em ten, very good prospects who are very hard to rate and rank. It's probably smart to hold one or two of them through camp and wait for the news to start breaking about how they look. I'm not a big Dustin Keller fan. Again I will be monitoring situation as much as anything with these guys. Here's my ten, a strange list, loosely ranked.1. John Carlson2. Fred Davis3. Brad Cottam4. Dustin Keller5. Craig Stevens6. Jermichael Finley7. Martellus Bennett8. Kellen Davis9. Martin Rucker10. Jacob TammeThe depth and quality here isn't getting as much attention as I think it deserves. Maybe the overhyped 06 class combined with the lower value of TEs in general has something to do with it, but I like these guys. I think the first five are solid. Cottam is inexperienced as can be, but he's got all the right stuff as far as I can tell. Stevens has almost no questions and is not getting enough respect. Finley Davis and Bennet all have great potential but certain questions that raise doubts drop them, but that's a serious boom or bust tier. Any of them could be the best TE in the class in the end. One caveat at TE is that while some teams are almost desperate, they don't act like it and the rest of the league really has solid talent. A player has to show a major talent gap to get an early career break. It's a tough position to learn and there's a lot of well schooled TEs on NFL rosters. For rookie drafts that run just 6 or 7 rounds, I doubt I will take a TE this year. I will probably nab a couple in FA to stash through training camp though.

 

[FTRWRTR]

Woodson probably won't go after Dixon, but I bet Johnson goes before him (he should). I do think Woodson is more in line with the type QB of that goes in the 3rd/4th and maybe gets a shot if he develops well as opposed to the kind that goes in the 1st/2nd and almost always gets a shot with their first organization.

I'll take your word for it that johnson is incredibly talented but all the talent in the world won't make up for the fact he weighs only 198lbs at 6'3". That's too skinny for a qb and I can't see a team taking him in the 2nd or 3rd rounds. Especially not after the failed brodie croyle experiment in kc.

John Beck was drafted in the 2nd round, 40th pick overall, last year and was very thin. I know the Dolphins listed Beck over 200 pounds, but that guy was very thin. He has already gained 12 pounds this offseason.

According to my 2007 draft guide beck is 6'1"...not saying that's a world of difference but there is a difference

Woodson probably won't go after Dixon, but I bet Johnson goes before him (he should). I do think Woodson is more in line with the type QB of that goes in the 3rd/4th and maybe gets a shot if he develops well as opposed to the kind that goes in the 1st/2nd and almost always gets a shot with their first organization.

I'll take your word for it that johnson is incredibly talented but all the talent in the world won't make up for the fact he weighs only 198lbs at 6'3". That's too skinny for a qb and I can't see a team taking him in the 2nd or 3rd rounds. Especially not after the failed brodie croyle experiment in kc.

can we really say that Brodie Croyle experiment is a failure? I mean the guy was a mid-round pick in his 2nd year. I think it is unfair to write him off just yet. It's like if a player doesn't come out firing and throw for 3500 yards in their 1st year starting we should just move on. I just don't understand how quickly people write off guys like Croyle, Beck, Tarvaris, etc... It's not like they have looked like David Carr nor have they had great supporting casts.

IMO it's not too early because he was a mediocre, injury prone qb in college and he's still a mediocre, injury prone qb. To think he will suddenly become a durable, elite or even good qb is unrealistic as far as I'm concerned

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

Dustin Keller and Fred Davis should go before him in every rookie draft, and probably John Carlson. I like Jermichael Finley better among the boom/bust guys, I like Martin Rucker slightly better of the athletic, but not as fluid guys. There's also a good argument for Martellus Bennett to go higher than Davis. I don't know about undraftable, but its hard to crack the top 36 in this deep class of WR and RB.

The 07 mystery theme runs as deep at TE as it does anywhere in this draft. There's 10, count 'em ten, very good prospects who are very hard to rate and rank. It's probably smart to hold one or two of them through camp and wait for the news to start breaking about how they look. I'm not a big Dustin Keller fan. Again I will be monitoring situation as much as anything with these guys. Here's my ten, a strange list, loosely ranked.1. John Carlson2. Fred Davis3. Brad Cottam4. Dustin Keller5. Craig Stevens6. Jermichael Finley7. Martellus Bennett8. Kellen Davis9. Martin Rucker10. Jacob TammeThe depth and quality here isn't getting as much attention as I think it deserves. Maybe the overhyped 06 class combined with the lower value of TEs in general has something to do with it, but I like these guys. I think the first five are solid. Cottam is inexperienced as can be, but he's got all the right stuff as far as I can tell. Stevens has almost no questions and is not getting enough respect. Finley Davis and Bennet all have great potential but certain questions that raise doubts drop them, but that's a serious boom or bust tier. Any of them could be the best TE in the class in the end. One caveat at TE is that while some teams are almost desperate, they don't act like it and the rest of the league really has solid talent. A player has to show a major talent gap to get an early career break. It's a tough position to learn and there's a lot of well schooled TEs on NFL rosters. For rookie drafts that run just 6 or 7 rounds, I doubt I will take a TE this year. I will probably nab a couple in FA to stash through training camp though.

I have to agree that Cottam looks the part - he's very difficult to rank because of the injuries, but the upside is there. I almost wonder if he could be turned into an LT in time with that natural size.Stevens is just ok, a lot like Celek last year. I think he'll contribute as a two way TE, but I see an average athlete, and he did not stand out in the Shrine Game group even though he should have.

 

[mcintyre1]

not sure why people have Omon so much higher than Danny Woodhead. Woodhead won the HH 2X and posted some ridiculous pro day numbersAlso curious as to why no Allen Patrick? Did Omon look that much better in practices?

I was excited to see Allen Patrick up close at the Shrine Game practices, and came away extremely disappointed. Check out our recaps of practice over at Draftguys.Patrick was too concerned with fumbling the football, looked hesitant, and lacked vision. In El Paso Xavier Omon stood out every day. He ran with the power and determination that made him a star in college. Omon is a very instinctive runner and knows how to set up defenders with the slightest of moves.I have 4 games of coaches tape of Danny Woodhead. These games are: Washburn, Wayne St (NE), Northern Colorado, and Colorado School of Mines. I will release my notes on these games in the shark pool, but here's my initial impression: Woodhead is a priority free agent that can make a team as a special teams ace. The first thing that stands out about DW is the fact he needs OPEN space to manuever. He doesn't have the classic "make you miss" ability like some other runners. he cannot create this space on his own and gets swallowed up by the defense a lot.in the open space he will KILL you though. He does a nice job of accelerating through the hole and has a burst to make defenders take bad angles. more notes from those games to come.

You didn't happen to get any video of his Jr. year did you? That was his killer year.

 

[rabidfireweasel]

41-50

Very interested to hear the defenses of most of this group - especially the QBs.

Also interested to hear anyone y'all think I'm remiss to leave out of the top 50.

I probably devote about 2% of the time you do to researching the draft, but I think Kellen Davis (TE, Michigan State) is a glaring omission from your top 50. He gets an A- on the eyeball test; his combine performance was stellar; and he consistently got down field for 20+ yard catches in his senior year. He also played a little defensive end, the versatility of which leads me to believe that a team needing a TE will reach a little (say the third round). As a Saints fan, I'd like to see them draft him. Were he to go to New Orleans or Seattle, I could see this guy "skyrocketing" up the top 100 charts.

WOW. Kellen Davis (TE, Michigan State) not in top 50? To be honest after the first 10, I didn't check in after that.

Kellen has to be in the top 20. No?

Davis is a sick athlete, but he doesn't look natural catching the ball and doesn't always play with that fire in his belly. If you like boom/bust he should be a lot higher, but I think there are at least 3 or 4 TEs in this class that are better natural receivers than Davis even if they aren't athletic specimens.

So your saying Kellen Davis is undraftable. In a 12 team League. You wouldn't pick this guy in the first 4 rounds? Thats crazy. He has to be at least a 3 rd rounder. I have Him in my top 20, maybe to high. But Davis has to be in everyones top 36, No?

Bloom is talking about IDP- so that knocks many players behind LB's. Also, if you are not a top projected to be a 15 TE within 2-3years, then you you are borderline undraftable. You can get guys that produce similarly, in terms of points per game, off waivers most of the time. You are better off taking a boom/bust flier on a wr or a rb.