GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Window or door came off in middle of a flight.What did it bump with?
Absolutely terrifying. I’m sure a whole lot of brown underwear after that flight.
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
Boeing 737 MAX (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Terminalxylem
- Start date
Absolutely terrifying. I’m sure a whole lot of brown underwear after that flight.
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
So much for them being the safest planes in the air.Window or door came off in middle of a flight.What did it bump with?
Absolutely terrifying. I’m sure a whole lot of brown underwear after that flight.
Dezbelief
Footballguy
It was a wall section.Window or door came off in middle of a flight.What did it bump with?
Absolutely terrifying. I’m sure a whole lot of brown underwear after that flight.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Good clarification. Though either way there was a giant hole in the side of the plane while they were flying.It was a wall section.Window or door came off in middle of a flight.What did it bump with?
Absolutely terrifying. I’m sure a whole lot of brown underwear after that flight.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
Good clarification. Though either way there was a giant hole in the side of the plane while they were flying.It was a wall section.Window or door came off in middle of a flight.What did it bump with?
Absolutely terrifying. I’m sure a whole lot of brown underwear after that flight.
It was kind of both, really. It is a separate piece on the outside. Essentially a permanent door. There's an optional door you can order in that spot but if you don't (as in this case) they put in a plug of sorts there, like a door that doesn't open. You can see it as a separate piece when looking at the plane from the outside (though it doesn't appear any different than a normal wall piece from the inside).
Either way, not looking forward to seeing where the stock opens up on Monday.
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
I’ve been on these a few times. just nuts. Going to do my best to avoid them in the future.
jusr watched the clip. That plane was delivered 10 weeks ago.
jusr watched the clip. That plane was delivered 10 weeks ago.
jvdesigns2002
Footballguy
Jesus. Just saw on CNBC that an aviation expert said that because the section flew off at relatively low altitude that there was a good probability that this same plane was probably not sealed well for a while and probably had issues of pressurization before the event. Sure enough—apparently the same plane had the depressurization light come on in like 2-3 flights prior to the flight when the section flew off. Also—apparently the carrier purposely restricted this same plane from being used on longer routes (such as those to Hawaii) because they were concerned about the pressurization issues. Seems odd that a carrier would fly passengers on a plane that they themselves don’t feel comfortable to use for longer flights. Certainly not a good look for Boeing, and certainly not a good look for the airlines that seem to put corporate profits ahead of passenger safety yet again.
Last edited:
Orange&Blue
Footballguy
couple of things of note from this that piss me off:
1) There had been several depressurizing warnings in this exact plane and alaska airlines didn't do anything despite pilots requests.
2) The cockpit data recorder automatically wipes so only 2 hours is recorded? Get a bigger hard drive you cheap bastards.
www.bbc.com
1) There had been several depressurizing warnings in this exact plane and alaska airlines didn't do anything despite pilots requests.
2) The cockpit data recorder automatically wipes so only 2 hours is recorded? Get a bigger hard drive you cheap bastards.
Alaska Airlines plane had warnings days before mid-air blowout
The jet involved in Friday's incident had been prevented from long trips over water, US investigators say.
www.bbc.com
culdeus
Footballguy
Is there something on the voice recorder that is needed? Everyone survived and there isn't some thought of pilot error.couple of things of note from this that piss me off:
1) There had been several depressurizing warnings in this exact plane and alaska airlines didn't do anything despite pilots requests.
2) The cockpit data recorder automatically wipes so only 2 hours is recorded? Get a bigger hard drive you cheap bastards.
Alaska Airlines plane had warnings days before mid-air blowout
The jet involved in Friday's incident had been prevented from long trips over water, US investigators say.
Snotbubbles
Footballguy
I am currently working on one of the lawsuits against Boeing for the 737MAX. The case is still ongoing so I can't speak on some of the things we've found.
But if you want to see some of the problems with the MAX certification process, Google: "Mark Forkner". He was the Boeing Chief Technical Pilot who was communicating with the FAA to try and get the MAX certified as Level B training. He was found not guilty in his criminal trial. I think his testimony is public information.
But if you want to see some of the problems with the MAX certification process, Google: "Mark Forkner". He was the Boeing Chief Technical Pilot who was communicating with the FAA to try and get the MAX certified as Level B training. He was found not guilty in his criminal trial. I think his testimony is public information.
massraider
Footballguy
Here's some more:
Families of Boeing crash victims say the U.S. failed to consult them. (Published 2021)
In a court filing, they said that the Justice Department’s settlement with Boeing violated a federal law meant to protect victims.
Families of the 346 people killed in the two crashes say they were left in the dark of the Boeing settlement.
$500 million in a fund for the victims. $250 mill criminal penalty to the government.
2.5 billion to the airlines for their financial losses.
Snotbubbles
Footballguy
I will say this for some background on what happened with the 737MAX.
Boeing was designing a new aircraft that was going to replace the 737 line. The design would have taken like 7-10 years to complete. Airbus came out with the NEO, that competed with the 737NG. It was more fuel efficient than the NG. The NEO was eating up the market share of the NG and some of Boeing's larger customers informed Boeing that they were going to purchase NEOs. This spooked Boeing so rather than a complete redesign of a new aircraft, Boeing decided to just put larger engines on the 737NG planes and rename them MAX to compete with the NEOs. The MAX was the best selling plane in its class. The issue for Boeing was, they sold the planes with the promise that they would only require Level B training (computer training that a pilot could do in a couple hours) because the plane flew essentially the same as its predecessor the NG. If the FAA found that the training required for the MAX needed more than Level B (ie, simulator training), Boeing would have to rebate customers who bought the MAX ($1M per plane (they sold over 500 planes)). The problem for Boeing was the new engines were larger, heavier and had to be placed in a different position on the wing than the NG engines. This cause planes to stall when the angle of attack reached a certain degree. To combat this, Boeing installed MCAS in the MAX which was a computer program that automatically forced the nose down when the angle of attack reached a certain degree at high speeds. The MCAS was the cause of the Lion Air and Ethiopia crashes because the sensor was faulty so it kept pushing the nose down, then the pilot would correct and the nose would get pushed down again. Eventually, the downward force became too great to pull out of the nose down manually.
This is why I said google Forkner. He's the guy who ensured that MAX would only need Level B training.
Boeing was designing a new aircraft that was going to replace the 737 line. The design would have taken like 7-10 years to complete. Airbus came out with the NEO, that competed with the 737NG. It was more fuel efficient than the NG. The NEO was eating up the market share of the NG and some of Boeing's larger customers informed Boeing that they were going to purchase NEOs. This spooked Boeing so rather than a complete redesign of a new aircraft, Boeing decided to just put larger engines on the 737NG planes and rename them MAX to compete with the NEOs. The MAX was the best selling plane in its class. The issue for Boeing was, they sold the planes with the promise that they would only require Level B training (computer training that a pilot could do in a couple hours) because the plane flew essentially the same as its predecessor the NG. If the FAA found that the training required for the MAX needed more than Level B (ie, simulator training), Boeing would have to rebate customers who bought the MAX ($1M per plane (they sold over 500 planes)). The problem for Boeing was the new engines were larger, heavier and had to be placed in a different position on the wing than the NG engines. This cause planes to stall when the angle of attack reached a certain degree. To combat this, Boeing installed MCAS in the MAX which was a computer program that automatically forced the nose down when the angle of attack reached a certain degree at high speeds. The MCAS was the cause of the Lion Air and Ethiopia crashes because the sensor was faulty so it kept pushing the nose down, then the pilot would correct and the nose would get pushed down again. Eventually, the downward force became too great to pull out of the nose down manually.
This is why I said google Forkner. He's the guy who ensured that MAX would only need Level B training.
The Z Machine
Footballguy
Good summary. I think they also had only 1 angle of attack sensor, so when it was giving faulty data, there was a single point of failure. Also no way to override the MCAS while in flight.
Snotbubbles
Footballguy
Correct. There are two angle of attack sensors on planes but the MCAS only read data from one sensor. There were other issues as well. Pilots being unaware of MCAS being installed on the planes. Cockpit monitors that would alert pilots to issues were disabled on most planes because they were an additional cost.
The Z Machine
Footballguy
MCAS seems like it was a rushed bandaid fix that wasn't well thought out.
The General
Footballguy
Feeling great about my upcoming flights on Alaska! 
Plane people...It seems these are different but is the Boeing 737-900 (Winglets) a different aircraft then the Boeing’s 737 Max 9?
Plane people...It seems these are different but is the Boeing 737-900 (Winglets) a different aircraft then the Boeing’s 737 Max 9?
Snotbubbles
Footballguy
It wasn't new Boeing technology, MCAS was installed on some non-commercial planes.
BeTheMatch
Footballguy
Me too. Wonder if we could get a refund now instead of a credit?Feeling great about my upcoming flights on Alaska!
Plane people...It seems these are different but is the Boeing 737-900 (Winglets) a different aircraft then the Boeing’s 737 Max 9?
krista4
Footballguy
The Max 9 is the newest "generation" of the 737-900, with different engine placement and different cockpit displays. I'd be comfortable going on a regular 737-900 right now. Not so much the Max 9.
ETA: Just fly Delta.
The General
Footballguy
I got a message that I could "change or cancel" my Alaska flight. I honestly don't have issues with flying just want to try and avoid any flights on that plane if other options are there.Me too. Wonder if we could get a refund now instead of a credit?Feeling great about my upcoming flights on Alaska!
Plane people...It seems these are different but is the Boeing 737-900 (Winglets) a different aircraft then the Boeing’s 737 Max 9?
krista4
Footballguy
I got a message that I could "change or cancel" my Alaska flight. I honestly don't have issues with flying just want to try and avoid any flights on that plane if other options are there.Me too. Wonder if we could get a refund now instead of a credit?Feeling great about my upcoming flights on Alaska!
Plane people...It seems these are different but is the Boeing 737-900 (Winglets) a different aircraft then the Boeing’s 737 Max 9?
Alaska and United are the only airlines here that are currently using them, I think.
The General
Footballguy
I am :thisclose: to lifetime million miles on Alaska so not doing Delta!
Booking some flights to LA next week and just trying to avoid getting hosed. I never look at aircraft type but see mostly this 737-900 plane for that.
Runkle
Footballguy
I got a message that I could "change or cancel" my Alaska flight. I honestly don't have issues with flying just want to try and avoid any flights on that plane if other options are there.Me too. Wonder if we could get a refund now instead of a credit?Feeling great about my upcoming flights on Alaska!
Plane people...It seems these are different but is the Boeing 737-900 (Winglets) a different aircraft then the Boeing’s 737 Max 9?
All the MAX's are grounded, right? So it'll have to be another model?
The General
Footballguy
That’s the thing when I’m booking out I see Max 9’s listed still on specific flight details (as well as this 737-900) so was hoping to avoid those flights as that seems like it could be problematic.I got a message that I could "change or cancel" my Alaska flight. I honestly don't have issues with flying just want to try and avoid any flights on that plane if other options are there.Me too. Wonder if we could get a refund now instead of a credit?Feeling great about my upcoming flights on Alaska!
Plane people...It seems these are different but is the Boeing 737-900 (Winglets) a different aircraft then the Boeing’s 737 Max 9?
All the MAX's are grounded, right? So it'll have to be another model?
No clue if their site isn’t updated and who knows what they are shifting around right now but if I see older planes listed on a flight to LA was going to jump on one of those.
Probably over planning, best laid plans and all.
Psychopav
Help us, Joebi-Wan Brynobi, you're our only ho
That's what I read. Which was interesting, because the 737 Max groundings from 2019 impacted different airlines. I recall that SWA had a large fleet of them, but these are 737 Max 8's - is that right?I got a message that I could "change or cancel" my Alaska flight. I honestly don't have issues with flying just want to try and avoid any flights on that plane if other options are there.Me too. Wonder if we could get a refund now instead of a credit?Feeling great about my upcoming flights on Alaska!
Plane people...It seems these are different but is the Boeing 737-900 (Winglets) a different aircraft then the Boeing’s 737 Max 9?
Alaska and United are the only airlines here that are currently using them, I think.
krista4
Footballguy
That's what I read. Which was interesting, because the 737 Max groundings from 2019 impacted different airlines. I recall that SWA had a large fleet of them, but these are 737 Max 8's - is that right?I got a message that I could "change or cancel" my Alaska flight. I honestly don't have issues with flying just want to try and avoid any flights on that plane if other options are there.Me too. Wonder if we could get a refund now instead of a credit?Feeling great about my upcoming flights on Alaska!
Plane people...It seems these are different but is the Boeing 737-900 (Winglets) a different aircraft then the Boeing’s 737 Max 9?
Alaska and United are the only airlines here that are currently using them, I think.
Yes, the SWA ones are the 8s.
urbanhack
Fight The Power!
Flying Delta to London in just a few weeks. Thankfully!
General Malaise
Footballguy
Yeah, big buzz about this in my Cedar Hills neighborhood. People out there looking for it like it was The Fenn Treasure.
Dezbelief
Footballguy
FAA orders temporary grounding of Boeing 737 Max 9 after a piece of Alaska Airline plane wall detached midair
A flight from Oregon to California made an emergency landing after the incident, prompting the airline to temporarily ground its 737 Max 9 planes.
Alaska Airline temporarily grounded all 65 of its 737 Max 9 aircraft Saturday for maintenance and safety inspections. It said a quarter of the inspections were completed “with no concerning findings” and so far 18 aircraft were cleared to return to service on Saturday. The remaining aircraft inspections are expected to be completed in the next few days.
General Malaise
Footballguy
That's what I read. Which was interesting, because the 737 Max groundings from 2019 impacted different airlines. I recall that SWA had a large fleet of them, but these are 737 Max 8's - is that right?I got a message that I could "change or cancel" my Alaska flight. I honestly don't have issues with flying just want to try and avoid any flights on that plane if other options are there.Me too. Wonder if we could get a refund now instead of a credit?Feeling great about my upcoming flights on Alaska!
Plane people...It seems these are different but is the Boeing 737-900 (Winglets) a different aircraft then the Boeing’s 737 Max 9?
Alaska and United are the only airlines here that are currently using them, I think.
Yes, the SWA ones are the 8s.
You're like the Mona Lisa Vito of airplanes!
Sand
Footballguy
I'm an engineer. Of all the things in this whole fiasco this part completely, utterly leaves me speechless. I am also aghast that the FAA didn't catch this - heads should have rolled there, as well. You simply do not have a single point failure mechanism possible in manned flight. You just don't.
BeTheMatch
Footballguy
United has found loose bolts on five of their door plugs already, and they just started checking.
If this has happened at higher altitude, the entire plane would've exploded.
If this has happened at higher altitude, the entire plane would've exploded.
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
Watch the doc on the initial groundings. It won’t sit well with you especially.
Snotbubbles
Footballguy
I do agree, that the FAA should have caught that having the MCAS operate on one AOA sensor. But in the FAAs defense, Boeing told the FAA that MCAS would only operate outside normal flight conditions because it would only fire at speeds higher than during a commercial flight. But Boeing engineers changed the MCAS to operate at lower speeds which then caused it to operate during normal flight conditions.
Then, "n and around November 2016, two of Boeing’s 737 MAX Flight Technical Pilots, one who was then the 737 MAX Chief Technical Pilot and another who would later become the 737 MAX Chief Technical Pilot, discovered information about an important change to MCAS [MCAS firing at lower speeds]. Rather than sharing information about this change with the FAA AEG, Boeing, through these two 737 MAX Flight Technical Pilots, concealed this information and deceived the FAA AEG about MCAS. Because of this deceit, the FAA AEG deleted all information about MCAS from the final version of the 737 MAX FSB Report published in July 2017. In turn, airplane manuals and pilot training materials for U.S.-based airlines lacked information about MCAS, and pilots flying the 737 MAX for Boeing’s airline customers were not provided any information about MCAS in their manuals and training materials. "
Here is a link the Boeing Deferred Prosecution Agreement. Go to the Statement of Facts (starting at 28 of 58). It provides some damning information about how Boeing employees did anything they could to make sure that the MAX was certified with Level B training.
Boeing Charged with 737 Max Fraud Conspiracy and Agrees to Pay over $2.5 Billion
The Boeing Company (Boeing) has entered into an agreement with the Department of Justice to resolve a criminal charge related to a conspiracy to defraud the Federal Aviation Administration’s Aircraft Evaluation Group (FAA AEG) in connection with the FAA AEG’s evaluation of Boeing’s 737 MAX airplane.
culdeus
Footballguy
Winglets is the old styleFeeling great about my upcoming flights on Alaska!
Plane people...It seems these are different but is the Boeing 737-900 (Winglets) a different aircraft then the Boeing’s 737 Max 9?
Psychopav
Help us, Joebi-Wan Brynobi, you're our only ho
I don't think this is true. Do you have a source for this?
BeTheMatch
Footballguy
The head of the NTSB on CBS national news.
Cowboysfan8
Footballguy
Not flying Alaska, but not an avid air traveler and am anxious already about flights next week and now planes are falling apart in the sky. Nice knowing you allFeeling great about my upcoming flights on Alaska!
![[icon]](/data/avatars/m/5/5167.jpg?1660313464){kind=avatar}
[icon]
Insoxicated
Thank you for posting
The General
Footballguy
You’ll be fineNot flying Alaska, but not an avid air traveler and am anxious already about flights next week and now planes are falling apart in the sky. Nice knowing you allFeeling great about my upcoming flights on Alaska!
maybe
culdeus
Footballguy
Hasn't this happened before? A FA got sucked out near Hawaii when the top ripped off at 30k? They landed.
3C's
Footballguy
"Top this drop test Google!"
www.cbsnews.com
iPhone that got sucked out of Alaska Airlines plane and fell 16,000 feet is found on the ground – and still works
The iPhone was found with a broken charger under a bush after being sucked out of a plane 16,000 feet in the air – and still had the flight passenger's confirmation and baggage claim information open.
www.cbsnews.com
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
I remember that. I don’t believe anyone died.
culdeus
Footballguy
The FA died there. I would link it but most of the descriptions are extremely graphic as are the photos. Aloha 243.
Psychopav
Help us, Joebi-Wan Brynobi, you're our only ho
Did the FA die because they got sucked out of the plane? Did the plane still land safely, with no other fatalities?
