Brandon Jackson (GB Packers) (1 Viewer)

[EBF]

Those numbers are a terrible measure of athleticism.

I disagree with that. I've paid pretty close attention to combine numbers for three or four years running. By and large, the RBs who post the best numbers at the combine are among the best prospects at the position. Sometimes you get a Frank Gore (terrible combine/great player) or a Chris Henry (great combine/terrible player), but you might be surprised how well the overall results correlate with draft position and eventual success. RB is not a complicated position. There's really no learning curve. It's merely a matter of physical talent and natural instincts. You can't measure instincts, but the combine drills are a pretty good indicator of physical talent.

I don;t think you understand my point about the word "athleticism" because I don't disagree with what you are saying above but you seem to think I do. Athleticsim by definition isn't 40 times and broad jumps to me. It is soo much more. That's all, EBF. I would argue the two backs in debate here (Vernand and Brandon) are better athletes than a stiff but incredibly strong kid like Chris Henry. Sprinters are very powerful, they jump very far and very high, but that doesn't equal better "athlete" to me. I dominate a world class sprinter on the basketball court, because he isn't much of an athlete. London Fletcher is an amazing athlete who would beat me like a drum on the hoops court.

The numbers are a great guide for separating players in tiers (or over-reacting in Tennessee) and sure they tell us about strength and ability to compete at the next level, but that's not athleticism. Measure hand eye coordination, footwork, vision, body control etc. along with the numbers and now we talk athleticism. Morency is a tremendous all around athlete. Jackson isn't. Anyway, the healthy Morency measured better too. I'll find it.

I guess the disconnect is that I considerr Larry Fitzgerald a great athlete, but Troy Williamson not so much. It's probably just a different way of looking at or defining those numbers. I don't think they equal athleticism. I have a broader respect for that word. When I see "suspect hands" I think bad athlete because catching the ball is part of a person's overall athleticism.

Thus, Morency greater athlete than Jackson, imo.

I know exactly what you're talking about. Guys like Chris Henry (WR), Anquan Boldin, Calvin Johnson, and Reggie Bush are great athletes. But measurables definitely still play a role. Especially at the RB position.

 

[Biabreakable]

Fwiw, I do not own Morency, but I think he may be a buy low based on the misguided love of an underachieving back in a weak class.

Well isn't this a mouthfull. Are you just kidding here also? Or do you want to stand by your statement?Also weak Rb class still?I guess if you say somthing enough times that makes it true?

 

[bonesman]

One cut back. One thing to note is that he doesn't dance at all. He picks his spot, cuts, and goes.

Off balance... those were my notes on the kid. He's better than average, but just doesn't have the total package to be great.

 

[Chaos Commish]

I know exactly what you're talking about. Guys like Chris Henry (WR), Anquan Boldin, Calvin Johnson, and Reggie Bush are great athletes. But measurables definitely still play a role. Especially at the RB position.

Absolutely.I know some of you have been impressed with Jackson. I think this class is a little weak and will have little impact. I like Jackson. Somewhere I said, they drafted a younger Vernand Morency, which is what I think he is. I predict a committee approach for most of the season. Wynn isn't being hyped, he's just one of this drafts most intriguing backs. Probably a head case, but ya know, his teammates really loved him. It's a yellow flag if you're taking Jackson #4, not a red one. Morency is older for his experience and he has injury history, so... I could talk myself into Jackson at 4. What an unfortunate pick that is this year!

 

[phthalatemagic]

I know exactly what you're talking about. Guys like Chris Henry (WR), Anquan Boldin, Calvin Johnson, and Reggie Bush are great athletes. But measurables definitely still play a role. Especially at the RB position.

Absolutely.I know some of you have been impressed with Jackson. I think this class is a little weak and will have little impact. I like Jackson. Somewhere I said, they drafted a younger Vernand Morency, which is what I think he is. I predict a committee approach for most of the season. Wynn isn't being hyped, he's just one of this drafts most intriguing backs. Probably a head case, but ya know, his teammates really loved him. It's a yellow flag if you're taking Jackson #4, not a red one. Morency is older for his experience and he has injury history, so... I could talk myself into Jackson at 4. What an unfortunate pick that is this year!

I haven't read Wynn is a headcase. I read he was just lazy and never applied his talent.

 

[switz]

Fwiw, I do not own Morency, but I think he may be a buy low based on the misguided love of an underachieving back in a weak class.

Well isn't this a mouthfull. Are you just kidding here also? Or do you want to stand by your statement?Also weak Rb class still?I guess if you say somthing enough times that makes it true?

Why can't you agree that this class of RBs is weak in comparison to most years?Here are the top prospects, considered NFL starter potential, from the drafts2007: Peterson, Lynch2006: Bush, Maroney, Addai, Williams, Lendale White, Jones-Drew,2005: Ronnie Brown, Cedric Benson, Carnell Williams, J.J. Arrington, Frank Gore2004: Steven Jackson, Chris Perry, Kevin Jones, Julius Jones2003: McGahee, Larry Johnson, Musa Smith, Chris Brown, Artrose Pinner, Dominick Williams, Onterrio Smith2002: Williams Green, TJ Duckett, Deshaun Foster, Clinton Portisis2001: LaDainian Tomlinson, Deuce McAllister, Michael Bennett, Anthony Thomas, LaMont Jordan, Travis Henry, James Jackson, Kevan BarlowThe number three back in this class measures up talent wise to the #6 in '06, the #6 in '05, the #5 in '04 (another weak class BTW) , #7 in '03, #5 in '02, #9 in '01

 

[Biabreakable]

This guy is SO overrated. I can't wait to see people draft him far above his value thinking he only has Morency as competition. Morency will be the starter. And all the Morency naysayers look pretty silly after GBs draft.

Pretty sure you are saying verbatum that Jackson is so overrated. Not sure how I would be confused about your statement here. Seem pretty clear. But keep back-pedaling.

You're right. It wasn't in the post you initially replied to, and I had forgotten typing it. But no back pedalling. I just didn't recall saying 'overrated.' Gotta love the overuse of backpedalling by you. I think in every thread you disagree with someone you accuse them of backpedalling.

I bring up SOD to make a point as I know that might get your attention. A lot of people doubted Smiths talent much like I am hearing you doubt Jacksons.

Actually, the argument on Smith was NOT about talent, but rather character. Go back and read the threads on this board, or go back to the draft gurus. IT was character, character, character. NOT talent.,

In regards to this being a weak Rb class I have to disagree. If it is such a weak class of Rbs as we have been hearing the talking heads say all offseason then why were 8 Rbs picked on the 1st day? Especialy when there was so much talented depth available at other positions. Most notably DE Corner Safety and WR as well as some high quality offensive linemen. 3 more Rbs drafted in the 4th round including the start of the round with Bush.

The answer lies in the question. The difference in talent between RB3-and RB11 was so negligible, and the teams did not have a consensus list as to which RB was rated higher, that many teams took "their" RB maybe higher than they would in another draft, thinking theirs was the last of the decent RBs. Most, if not all, scouts have said this is a weak RB class.

FYI 2006 Rb class had 8 Rbs drafted 1st day with 3 more in round 4 (perhaps best Rb class in past decade)2005 Rb class had 9 Rbs drafted 1st day + 5 in round 4 (very deep Rb class Morency was Rb 7)2004 Rb class had 5 Rbs drafted 1st day + 2 in round 42003 Rb class had 5 Rbs drafted 1st day + 6 in round 42002 Rb class had 7 Rbs drafted 1st day + 3 in round 42001 Rb class had 10 Rbs drafted 1st day + 3 in round 4So based off of Rbs drafted this class looks at least average imo and does not deserve to be called weak by comparison to other draft classes.

The number of RBs in a clasee doesn't make it strong or weak, it's the acliber of those RBs. And as your list points out, RBs tend to fall in a certain pattern at draft time, REGARDLESS of their talent, because they are only measured against their own class.

To say that you cannot compare players from one draft class to another while at the same time calling one draft class weak makes absolutly no sense because your allready making that comparison.

Huh? You are missing the point completely. To say 2007 pick 32 is = to 2006 pick 32 is ridiculous. The level of talent in drafts is not always equal. And comparing a class of RBs to another class, does not equal comparing specific RBs in different classes.Here's an example: You have two pools of numbers...Pool 1 - 1,3,4,8,9,11,15Pool 2 - 3,5,6,7,12,17,22You have the same number of numbers in each pool, but their values are different. Of course the top number in each pool is better than the next number in each pool, but is the difference equal? Would you say the third number in each pool was equal? If I was to say each number represented a check, which pool would you say had more value?

I don't know if I have ever said back pedaling in a post before. I am not even sure what is the proper way to type that statement due to my unfamiliarity with it. Does seem to apply here though.Yeah I have been hearing those same draftniks say this Rb class is "weak" for months now. I also heard that there would not be Rbs drafted in the 2nd round yet there were 4 of them. The teams seem to think differently based on thier picks. So are you saying that the 2007 draft class as a whole is "weak" compared to other drafts then? I would have to disagree with that statement even more.

 

[Chaos Commish]

Fwiw, I do not own Morency, but I think he may be a buy low based on the misguided love of an underachieving back in a weak class.

Well isn't this a mouthfull. Are you just kidding here also? Or do you want to stand by your statement?Also weak Rb class still?

I guess if you say somthing enough times that makes it true?

This isn't a serious enough topic for me to stand by my statements. I take joy in admitting I'm wrong about fantasy football and not being too stubborn to do the right thing for my team even though I read something wrong. I don't worry about being right or wrong, but I try to be right and react when I am wrong. Some people just get all stubborn when they are wrong. They whine too much. I'd rather admit it and move along. But yes, I think this class is weak at RB. I think it is very interesting in variety, but will not have terrific impact like last year and especially next year. all of that is AFTER AD and Lynch (who are both superb). Last year we had Bush and Maroney followed by DeAngelo, Addai, Drew, Norwood, Washington. Good luck finding that kind of potential this year.

Now as far as that mouthful you quoted-- definitely a sentence designed to be taken with a grain of salt.

eta - and add LenDale and Jerome Harrison, whose situations are looking better and better to me.

 

[switz]

So are you saying that the 2007 draft class as a whole is "weak" compared to other drafts then? I would have to disagree with that statement even more.

The 2007 RB draft class is very weak compared to the past 5 years. The WR class is relatively strong. The TE class pretty weak, there were like 2 decent ones, though there aren't many good ones, maybe it's average for TE. I think it's strong on the DE and DT though I know some others would disagree, who thought there was a shortage at DE this year.I think overall, every class is relatively equal in overall talent, but not equal at talent per position.

 

[Arsenal of Doom]

Packer Brass also seems to think Jackson is excellent at picking up the blitz. If you need a rookie RB to start, and you have a hall of famer back there, this is no minor skill.

Jackson was by far the best blocker in pass pro out of the Nebraska backs. Nebraska runs a very similar zone blocking scheme to what they are using in Green Bay now, so Jackson will be familiar with the looks. He's not at all a one cut runner, as other have said, but I think it has been a little blown out of proportion that you need to run that way to be effective with zone blocking. In fact the two backs who were by far the most successful in the Denver system, Terrell Davis and Clinton Portis, were not single cut runners. You need to have the vision to make the initial cut, but at the second level of the defense both TD and Portis would continue to look for seems and run to daylight. Jackson actually reminds me more of TD than any other back with his combination of spin moves, cutbacks, and power when needed. The red flags on Jackson are durability and ball security. He was only a starter for 2/3 of a season so he hasn't even demonstrated that he can hold up over a 12 game college season. He also has a tendency to let the ball get too far away from his body and not protect it when he is going down, which should be something that can be corrected with coaching.

 

[Biabreakable]

Fwiw, I do not own Morency, but I think he may be a buy low based on the misguided love of an underachieving back in a weak class.

Well isn't this a mouthfull. Are you just kidding here also? Or do you want to stand by your statement?Also weak Rb class still?I guess if you say somthing enough times that makes it true?

Why can't you agree that this class of RBs is weak in comparison to most years?Here are the top prospects, considered NFL starter potential, from the drafts2007: Peterson, Lynch2006: Bush, Maroney, Addai, Williams, Lendale White, Jones-Drew,2005: Ronnie Brown, Cedric Benson, Carnell Williams, J.J. Arrington, Frank Gore2004: Steven Jackson, Chris Perry, Kevin Jones, Julius Jones2003: McGahee, Larry Johnson, Musa Smith, Chris Brown, Artrose Pinner, Dominick Williams, Onterrio Smith2002: Williams Green, TJ Duckett, Deshaun Foster, Clinton Portisis2001: LaDainian Tomlinson, Deuce McAllister, Michael Bennett, Anthony Thomas, LaMont Jordan, Travis Henry, James Jackson, Kevan BarlowThe number three back in this class measures up talent wise to the #6 in '06, the #6 in '05, the #5 in '04 (another weak class BTW) , #7 in '03, #5 in '02, #9 in '01

So your saying that Lendale White, JJ Arrington, Julius Jones, Musa Smith, Chris Brown, Artose Pinner, DD, SOD, William Green, TJ Duckett, DeShawn Foster, Michael Bennett, Anthony Thomas, Lamont Jordan, James Jackson and Kevan Barlow are more bonifide starting capable Rbs from stronger draft classes than these Rb prospects:2.17 Kenny Irons (Auburn) to Cincinnati Bengals2.18 Chris Henry (Arizona) to Tennessee Titans2.20 Brian Leonard (Rutgers) to St Louis Rams2.31 Brandon Jackson (Nebraska) to Green Bay Packers3.07 Lorenzo Booker (Florida State) to Miami Dolphins3.27 Tony Hunt (Penn State) to Philadelphia Eagles3.30 Garrett Wolfe (Northern Illinois) to Chicago Bears4.01 Michael Bush (Louisville) to Oakland Raiders4.08 Antonio Pittman (Ohio State) to New Orleans SaintsFor the most part with exception of DD those guys have been part time starters or busts. So no I cannot agree that these Rbs are "weak" compared to the allready failed. Without a doubt many of thse Rbs will fail also. But I think if anything people are underestimating these Rbs potential based on buzz words calling the Rb draft class "weak".There will be some good players to emerge from this group. I think Jackson is one of them.

 

[Biabreakable]

Fwiw, I do not own Morency, but I think he may be a buy low based on the misguided love of an underachieving back in a weak class.

Well isn't this a mouthfull. Are you just kidding here also? Or do you want to stand by your statement?Also weak Rb class still?

I guess if you say somthing enough times that makes it true?

This isn't a serious enough topic for me to stand by my statements. I take joy in admitting I'm wrong about fantasy football and not being too stubborn to do the right thing for my team even though I read something wrong. I don't worry about being right or wrong, but I try to be right and react when I am wrong. Some people just get all stubborn when they are wrong. They whine too much. I'd rather admit it and move along. But yes, I think this class is weak at RB. I think it is very interesting in variety, but will not have terrific impact like last year and especially next year. all of that is AFTER AD and Lynch (who are both superb). Last year we had Bush and Maroney followed by DeAngelo, Addai, Drew, Norwood, Washington. Good luck finding that kind of potential this year.

Now as far as that mouthful you quoted-- definitely a sentence designed to be taken with a grain of salt.

eta - and add LenDale and Jerome Harrison, whose situations are looking better and better to me.

:( Well in my misguided assesment (and terrible judge of Rb talent I might add) I see somthing special in Brandon Jackson. It would be great to see a larger body of work from him than he has, however I think that (due to shoulder surguries since recovered from) is what keeps him from being considered a great Rb. If he had another year of play like his last year.. maybe people would have him much closer and interchangable with Lynch. I am by no means trying to compare this Rb class with 2006 which has been one of the best of the past decade based on thier performance and accolades thus far. Maybe it is just semantic's but what I have a hard time agreeing with is saying this Rb class is weak. I think the continual perspective makes this group of Rbs very underrated. And I think it has to do with short term memory comparing the class of 2007 with 2006 and 2005 which were very strong Rb classes.

To me that means this class is average. But not weak. And there are more than 2 starters that will come from this group of Rbs.

Jackson stands out as highly likely to be one who will. And I thought this long before he was drafted into a favorable situation with the Packers.

 

[Ron_Mexico]

Can this guy outrun ANYBODY?? I have never before seen a highlight reel where the subject gets run down on every play.

He's more quick than fast. Not everyone is a burner, and not everyone needs to be. Also, I think you're exaggerating a bit much here. Probably 80% of the guys who catch him had the angle on him, and he does outrun a few people.

One cut back.Quick, not fast.This is not a good combination.I thought it was a reach for GB.

 

[snorlax]

For those of you saying Jackson won't fit in the Packers' scheme, one of the main reasons the Packers took him was because he played in a similar scheme at Nebraska that would help his transition to the NFL. Also, the last second round running back to play in a zone-blocking scheme at Nebraska was Ahman Green, and he worked out ok for the Packers. Regardless, both Jackson and Morency will likely see a good share of time this year. Who knows what will happen after that.

 

[Arsenal of Doom]

For those of you saying Jackson won't fit in the Packers' scheme, one of the main reasons the Packers took him was because he played in a similar scheme at Nebraska that would help his transition to the NFL. Also, the last second round running back to play in a zone-blocking scheme at Nebraska was Ahman Green, and he worked out ok for the Packers. Regardless, both Jackson and Morency will likely see a good share of time this year. Who knows what will happen after that.

Ahman Green didn't run in a zone blocking scheme at Nebraska, that was the good old days of Power I option football. Jackson (and future Nebraska runners) will have a much easier transition to the NFL, since they won't be coming from a system that lines them up 7 yards deep.

 

[switz]

So your saying that Lendale White, JJ Arrington, Julius Jones, Musa Smith, Chris Brown, Artose Pinner, DD, SOD, William Green, TJ Duckett, DeShawn Foster, Michael Bennett, Anthony Thomas, Lamont Jordan, James Jackson and Kevan Barlow are more bonifide starting capable Rbs from stronger draft classes than these Rb prospects:2.17 Kenny Irons (Auburn) to Cincinnati Bengals2.18 Chris Henry (Arizona) to Tennessee Titans2.20 Brian Leonard (Rutgers) to St Louis Rams2.31 Brandon Jackson (Nebraska) to Green Bay Packers3.07 Lorenzo Booker (Florida State) to Miami Dolphins3.27 Tony Hunt (Penn State) to Philadelphia Eagles3.30 Garrett Wolfe (Northern Illinois) to Chicago Bears4.01 Michael Bush (Louisville) to Oakland Raiders4.08 Antonio Pittman (Ohio State) to New Orleans SaintsFor the most part with exception of DD those guys have been part time starters or busts. So no I cannot agree that these Rbs are "weak" compared to the allready failed. Without a doubt many of thse Rbs will fail also. But I think if anything people are underestimating these Rbs potential based on buzz words calling the Rb draft class "weak".There will be some good players to emerge from this group. I think Jackson is one of them.

At draft time, all of those RBs graded out higher than all RBs in this year's class with the exceptioon of Peterson and Lynch. Of course draft grade does not equal success... Jackson COULD be successful. But basing it on where he was drafted is not the smart thing to do. And to think his situation guarantees success is silly too - look at Michael Bennett. All we can say, is his situation gives him a better shot at an opportunity than some others. But realistically, he doesn't appear to me, to have the talent to be a solid NFL starting RB.

 

[snorlax]

For those of you saying Jackson won't fit in the Packers' scheme, one of the main reasons the Packers took him was because he played in a similar scheme at Nebraska that would help his transition to the NFL. Also, the last second round running back to play in a zone-blocking scheme at Nebraska was Ahman Green, and he worked out ok for the Packers. Regardless, both Jackson and Morency will likely see a good share of time this year. Who knows what will happen after that.

Ahman Green didn't run in a zone blocking scheme at Nebraska, that was the good old days of Power I option football. Jackson (and future Nebraska runners) will have a much easier transition to the NFL, since they won't be coming from a system that lines them up 7 yards deep.

I'm pretty sure he said in interviews before the year that he was excited to run in a zone-blocking scheme like he did in college.

 

[Biabreakable]

So your saying that Lendale White, JJ Arrington, Julius Jones, Musa Smith, Chris Brown, Artose Pinner, DD, SOD, William Green, TJ Duckett, DeShawn Foster, Michael Bennett, Anthony Thomas, Lamont Jordan, James Jackson and Kevan Barlow are more bonifide starting capable Rbs from stronger draft classes than these Rb prospects:2.17 Kenny Irons (Auburn) to Cincinnati Bengals2.18 Chris Henry (Arizona) to Tennessee Titans2.20 Brian Leonard (Rutgers) to St Louis Rams2.31 Brandon Jackson (Nebraska) to Green Bay Packers3.07 Lorenzo Booker (Florida State) to Miami Dolphins3.27 Tony Hunt (Penn State) to Philadelphia Eagles3.30 Garrett Wolfe (Northern Illinois) to Chicago Bears4.01 Michael Bush (Louisville) to Oakland Raiders4.08 Antonio Pittman (Ohio State) to New Orleans SaintsFor the most part with exception of DD those guys have been part time starters or busts. So no I cannot agree that these Rbs are "weak" compared to the allready failed. Without a doubt many of thse Rbs will fail also. But I think if anything people are underestimating these Rbs potential based on buzz words calling the Rb draft class "weak".There will be some good players to emerge from this group. I think Jackson is one of them.

At draft time, all of those RBs graded out higher than all RBs in this year's class with the exceptioon of Peterson and Lynch. Of course draft grade does not equal success... Jackson COULD be successful.

Pre-draft grades Rbs by TSN:2004 Grade B2005 Grade A-2006 Grade A-2007 Grade A-Note that I consider the Rb classes from 2006 and 2005 to be very strong and well above average compared to most years. I think this is where the confushion stems from by making this the expectation when it is above the norm. By comparing the 2007 class to those 2 groups it is not really a fair comparison if you consider those 2 Rb classes to be average. I think this perception may be what is causing draftniks, scouts, evaluators ect. to use the term weak when talking about the 2007 class. It is my contention that this is not the case. That the 2007 class does not deserve a A- grade that TSN gave it compared to those 2 classes, but that it should be recognised as comparable to 2004 or years prior to that.The player grades:RB 20068.8 Reggie Bush, USC8.2 Lawrence Maroney, Minnesota8.1 LenDale White, USC8.0 DeAngelo Williams, Memphis7.5 Joseph Addai. LSU7.4 Brian Calhoun, Wisconsin6.4 Leon Washington, Florida State6.0 Jerious Norwood, Mississippi State20058.8 Cedric Benson, Texas8.7 Ronnie Brown, Auburn8.6 Carnell Williams, Auburn8.1 Ciatrick Fason, Florida7.9 Verand Morency, Oklahoma St7.1 Eric Shelton, Louisville6.2 Marion Barber, Minnesota20048.5 Steven Jackson, Oregon St8.3 Kevin Jones, Virginia Tech8.0 Chris Perry, Michigan7.7 Maurice Clarett, Ohio St (2004 ranking)6.9 Julius Jones, Notre Dame6.1 Michael Turner, N Illinois5.9 Tatum Bell, Oklahoma St2007Adrian Peterson....8.2Antonio Pittman....7.9Marshawn Lynch...7.7Kenny Irons.........7.5Michael Bush........7.0Kenneth Darby.....6.9Brandon Jackson...6.5Chris Henry..........5.9Lorenzo Booker.....5.7I realise this is only one source. However Rbs such as Julius Jones ect. did not exactly grade out better than the 2007 Rb class other prospects. JJ's percieved value jumped when Parcells traded down from Jackson and picked him. He is now losing his job to Barber who's pre-draft grade was not that high either.Now that being said the pre-nfl player ranking and scouting always paints a different picture once the nfl teams actualy make thier selections. There is a lot of smoke and mirrors leading up to draft day and so much disinformation as teams use the media to fool each other as they jockey for favorable draft position. So these comments about draft classes being weak or strong leading up to the draft.. what does that really mean? The 2007 draft class has many good players at positions of greater need than the Rb position. Especialy when one considers that many teams had recently drafted to fill that position in the previous 2 strong to very strong draft classes. As you can see by looking at the players prior to 2004 draft most of them have allready washed out or are holding backup positons only. The few Rbs from 2004 that still are holding on are at risk of losing thier grip on starting or co-starting positions with thier teams after only 3 years.

But basing it on where he was drafted is not the smart thing to do. And to think his situation guarantees success is silly too - look at Michael Bennett. All we can say, is his situation gives him a better shot at an opportunity than some others. But realistically, he doesn't appear to me, to have the talent to be a solid NFL starting RB.

In reference to Brandon Jackson I have no disagreement with most of this statement as untactful and disparaging as some of your insinuations may be. I am used to that from you. It is how you talk. However it is not Jackson's situation that interests me about him alone. I have been impressed by his talent ever since Arsenal of Doom brought him to my attention back in January or February... whenever that was. I was actualy expecting him to land in more of a backup type situation based on how low the talking heads have had him rated leading up to the draft. He is a player I was still targeting based on his talent and hoped to land him with a later pick.NFL teams do not show thier hands until the draft is in swing. The Packers obviously saw somthing they liked in Jackson similar to what Arsenal of Doom and other had been seeing. That is somehow lost in the hyperbole? I dunno watching the clip again here I am seeing the same array of moves vision and power that impressed me the 1st time I saw it. So really my assesment (which you call poor or whatever switz) has been formed over several months now and reading what I could find about this guy as well as all the other Rbs.Now joining this talent with opportunity in Green Bay coupled with affirmation that despite other more highly regarded Rbs such as Pittman were still available they chose him as player worth a 2nd round pick. I am not sure what there is not to like?

 

[Byron_nyc]

I must say, despite some perhaps overpassionate exchanges, this thread is just incredibly useful in evaluating this little-known player -- video, detailed analysis, strong opinion, college and pro homer viewpoint, player history. This is why I love the shark pool -- type in Brandon Jackson, see, hear, learn, many perspectives. Thanks to all.

 

[switz]

So your saying that Lendale White, JJ Arrington, Julius Jones, Musa Smith, Chris Brown, Artose Pinner, DD, SOD, William Green, TJ Duckett, DeShawn Foster, Michael Bennett, Anthony Thomas, Lamont Jordan, James Jackson and Kevan Barlow are more bonifide starting capable Rbs from stronger draft classes than these Rb prospects:

2.17 Kenny Irons (Auburn) to Cincinnati Bengals

2.18 Chris Henry (Arizona) to Tennessee Titans

2.20 Brian Leonard (Rutgers) to St Louis Rams

2.31 Brandon Jackson (Nebraska) to Green Bay Packers

3.07 Lorenzo Booker (Florida State) to Miami Dolphins

3.27 Tony Hunt (Penn State) to Philadelphia Eagles

3.30 Garrett Wolfe (Northern Illinois) to Chicago Bears

4.01 Michael Bush (Louisville) to Oakland Raiders

4.08 Antonio Pittman (Ohio State) to New Orleans Saints

For the most part with exception of DD those guys have been part time starters or busts. So no I cannot agree that these Rbs are "weak" compared to the allready failed. Without a doubt many of thse Rbs will fail also. But I think if anything people are underestimating these Rbs potential based on buzz words calling the Rb draft class "weak".

There will be some good players to emerge from this group. I think Jackson is one of them.

At draft time, all of those RBs graded out higher than all RBs in this year's class with the exceptioon of Peterson and Lynch. Of course draft grade does not equal success... Jackson COULD be successful.

Pre-draft grades Rbs by TSN:2004 Grade B

2005 Grade A-

2006 Grade A-

2007 Grade A-

Note that I consider the Rb classes from 2006 and 2005 to be very strong and well above average compared to most years. I think this is where the confushion stems from by making this the expectation when it is above the norm. By comparing the 2007 class to those 2 groups it is not really a fair comparison if you consider those 2 Rb classes to be average. I think this perception may be what is causing draftniks, scouts, evaluators ect. to use the term weak when talking about the 2007 class. It is my contention that this is not the case. That the 2007 class does not deserve a A- grade that TSN gave it compared to those 2 classes, but that it should be recognised as comparable to 2004 or years prior to that.

The player grades:

RB 2006

8.8 Reggie Bush, USC

8.2 Lawrence Maroney, Minnesota

8.1 LenDale White, USC

8.0 DeAngelo Williams, Memphis

7.5 Joseph Addai. LSU

7.4 Brian Calhoun, Wisconsin

6.4 Leon Washington, Florida State

6.0 Jerious Norwood, Mississippi State

2005

8.8 Cedric Benson, Texas

8.7 Ronnie Brown, Auburn

8.6 Carnell Williams, Auburn

8.1 Ciatrick Fason, Florida

7.9 Verand Morency, Oklahoma St

7.1 Eric Shelton, Louisville

6.2 Marion Barber, Minnesota

2004

8.5 Steven Jackson, Oregon St

8.3 Kevin Jones, Virginia Tech

8.0 Chris Perry, Michigan

7.7 Maurice Clarett, Ohio St (2004 ranking)

6.9 Julius Jones, Notre Dame

6.1 Michael Turner, N Illinois

5.9 Tatum Bell, Oklahoma St

2007

Adrian Peterson....8.2

Antonio Pittman....7.9

Marshawn Lynch...7.7

Kenny Irons.........7.5

Michael Bush........7.0

Kenneth Darby.....6.9

Brandon Jackson...6.5

Chris Henry..........5.9

Lorenzo Booker.....5.7

I realise this is only one source. However Rbs such as Julius Jones ect. did not exactly grade out better than the 2007 Rb class other prospects. JJ's percieved value jumped when Parcells traded down from Jackson and picked him. He is now losing his job to Barber who's pre-draft grade was not that high either.

There is only one RB in this years class with a grade of 8+. Look at the other classes. And seriously, BJax has a grade of 6.5, compared to 7.9 for Morency. And it IS below Julius Jones, etc.

So these comments about draft classes being weak or strong leading up to the draft.. what does that really mean? The 2007 draft class has many good players at positions of greater need than the Rb position. Especialy when one considers that many teams had recently drafted to fill that position in the previous 2 strong to very strong draft classes. As you can see by looking at the players prior to 2004 draft most of them have allready washed out or are holding backup positons only. The few Rbs from 2004 that still are holding on are at risk of losing thier grip on starting or co-starting positions with thier teams after only 3 years.

If onyl the grades were based on team needs. Sure, a team's board will take into account the team's needs... but the way scouts grade players within their position is not based on the team's need, it's based on the players skills and talent with regard to the position the player plays.

But basing it on where he was drafted is not the smart thing to do. And to think his situation guarantees success is silly too - look at Michael Bennett. All we can say, is his situation gives him a better shot at an opportunity than some others. But realistically, he doesn't appear to me, to have the talent to be a solid NFL starting RB.

In reference to Brandon Jackson I have no disagreement with most of this statement as untactful and disparaging as some of your insinuations may be. I am used to that from you. It is how you talk. However it is not Jackson's situation that interests me about him alone. I have been impressed by his talent ever since Arsenal of Doom brought him to my attention back in January or February... whenever that was. I was actualy expecting him to land in more of a backup type situation based on how low the talking heads have had him rated leading up to the draft. He is a player I was still targeting based on his talent and hoped to land him with a later pick.

I'm not sure what was insinuated, or untactful. But I like the way you accuse me of being untactful and then slide in a shot or insult.

NFL teams do not show thier hands until the draft is in swing. The Packers obviously saw somthing they liked in Jackson similar to what Arsenal of Doom and other had been seeing. That is somehow lost in the hyperbole? I dunno watching the clip again here I am seeing the same array of moves vision and power that impressed me the 1st time I saw it. So really my assesment (which you call poor or whatever switz) has been formed over several months now and reading what I could find about this guy as well as all the other Rbs.

Now joining this talent with opportunity in Green Bay coupled with affirmation that despite other more highly regarded Rbs such as Pittman were still available they chose him as player worth a 2nd round pick. I am not sure what there is not to like?

Sure, the Packers saw something they liked, but that does not equate them viewing him as bonafide #1 RB potential. The Saints drafted Pittmann, who graded higher than BJax, doe sthat mean they view him as their starter? That's silly.

 

[Buc Dude]

Kinda reminds me of Michael Pittman. FWIW

 

[EBF]

Kinda reminds me of Michael Pittman. FWIW

Definitely. That's the guy I thought of when I first saw him run.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

Kinda reminds me of Michael Pittman. FWIW

Definitely. That's the guy I thought of when I first saw him run.

I think he moves a bit better laterally than Pittman, but that's a pretty decent call. So if you say that Pittman is his mid-range and someone like Ahman Green is his ceiling, is he worth the 1.04?

 

[Bojang0301]

Kinda reminds me of Michael Pittman. FWIW

Definitely. That's the guy I thought of when I first saw him run.

I think he moves a bit better laterally than Pittman, but that's a pretty decent call. So if you say that Pittman is his mid-range and someone like Ahman Green is his ceiling, is he worth the 1.04?

If you hold the 1.04 and 2.04 then unless you are desperate at QB yes. You can get a solid WR prospect in the second and I think he has a good opportunity and good talent at 1.04.

 

[KING]

i passed up on jackson at #4. i tried to trade down, but was offered absolute junk for the pick.

wtf is so great about jackson. imho i think he was a terrible reach. he had less than 900 yards rushing, and 182 of those came against OK st. the same oklahoma st that was ranked 12th in rushing in the big 12. that gave up over 200 yards a game, and a 5.2 average.

i am far from an expert in evaluating NFL talent, but i don't see anything in jackson.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

Kinda reminds me of Michael Pittman. FWIW

Definitely. That's the guy I thought of when I first saw him run.

I think he moves a bit better laterally than Pittman, but that's a pretty decent call. So if you say that Pittman is his mid-range and someone like Ahman Green is his ceiling, is he worth the 1.04?

If you hold the 1.04 and 2.04 then unless you are desperate at QB yes. You can get a solid WR prospect in the second and I think he has a good opportunity and good talent at 1.04.

That's my thought as well. If you have to have a QB, take Russell. But there are decent WRs at the top of the 2nd.

 

[Biabreakable]

By TOM SILVERSTEIN

tsilverstein@journalsentinel.com

Posted: May 4, 2007

Green Bay - Brandon Jackson got off on the right foot and DeShawn Wynn got off on the wrong calf as the Green Bay Packers got a look at their new rookie class.

The two running backs, Jackson a second-round pick from Nebraska and Wynn a seventh-round pick from Florida, were on display during a 90-minute or so workout Friday afternoon at the Don Hutson Center. Both are firmly in the mix for a starting running back job that is wide open after the departure of Ahman Green in free agency.

The rookie orientation camp this weekend is a far cry from an NFL game or even a training camp practice, and not a lot can be read from abbreviated workouts featuring just 31 players. But what stood out was that Jackson has the quick cutting ability the club said he had when they drafted him.

"I thought Jackson's feet were everything we saw on film," coach Mike McCarthy said. "I think he has very good start and stop. That's one thing you're able to see out here."

Wynn didn't make as good of an impression. Coming to the Packers with a reputation for being lazy and undisciplined, Wynn vowed before practice to show people that he was not the player some have made him out to be.

He said he felt he was every bit as athletic as the cluster of running backs taken in the second round and was eager to prove it.

"I'm here on a clean slate," said Wynn, who gained 630 yards (5.1-yard average) in 10 starts for the Gators last season. "I'm looking forward to making my own name here in Green Bay."

Unfortunately for Wynn, he had rough day. He tripped over his own feet and tumbled running through a gaping hole during an early run drill and then was forced out of the practice later when he suffered a pulled left calf muscle.

McCarthy wasn't sure of the severity of the injury and said Wynn's status for the final two days of the camp were up in the air.

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=601371

 

[bcr8f]

I own Morency in a dynasty league.I think Brandon Jackson looks like a heavier Ahman Green - and runs the same.He might be nice for them - underrated pick.

He isn't nearly as fast as Green.

 

[nygiants56]

I own Morency in a dynasty league.I think Brandon Jackson looks like a heavier Ahman Green - and runs the same.He might be nice for them - underrated pick.

exactly what I thought watching that tape, a heavier version of A. Green..Jackson looks good to me...he doesn't have game breaking speed, and can be caught from behind at times, but,not everyone is has blazing speed like LT2 or Clinton Portis..

 

[Biabreakable]

I own Morency in a dynasty league.I think Brandon Jackson looks like a heavier Ahman Green - and runs the same.He might be nice for them - underrated pick.

He isn't nearly as fast as Green.

He clocked a 4.41 at his pro day and has timed that well at other times. His combine time was lower like 4.5 somthing.Not that this is the end all measurment of game speed. But he seems to be fast enough.

 

[Pick]

Sweet footwork, nice hands, and good vision. But a lot of RBs are going to look good with that blocking.

 

[mcintyre1]

Sweet footwork, nice hands, and good vision. But a lot of RBs are going to look good with that blocking.

Seriously people? Nebraska's O-line is the weakest piece of the offense by far. Take it from a homer.

 

[Pick]

Sweet footwork, nice hands, and good vision. But a lot of RBs are going to look good with that blocking.

Seriously people? Nebraska's O-line is the weakest piece of the offense by far. Take it from a homer.

That may be so but for whatever reason those holes were huge. He won't see that in the NFL and he'll also face better, faster tacklers. Not that he won't succeed, but a video of some college guy waltzing through big holes and arm tackles isn't the defining evidence of NFL success.

 

[mcintyre1]

Sweet footwork, nice hands, and good vision. But a lot of RBs are going to look good with that blocking.

Seriously people? Nebraska's O-line is the weakest piece of the offense by far. Take it from a homer.

That may be so but for whatever reason those holes were huge. He won't see that in the NFL and he'll also face better, faster tacklers. Not that he won't succeed, but a video of some college guy waltzing through big holes and arm tackles isn't the defining evidence of NFL success.

I understand, but I want people to understand that Jackson acheived his stats behind a very bad O-line.

 

[FantasyTrader]

Slippery. Reminded me of Thomas Jones is many ways. Lacks a 2nd gear but sets up his blockers really well. Nice instinctive vision. He'll do well in crowded NFL spaces. But I think he's better suited for a 3rd down role.

 

[el-gato-grande]

Another interesting article..

Inexperience rules Packers' running backs

By Rob Demovsky

rdemovsk@greenbaypressgazette.com

There aren't many truly wide-open competitions for starting jobs — especially at skill positions — in NFL training camps anymore, with big-money free agents and high draft picks often penciled in.

That's what makes the Green Bay Packers' running back situation all the more unusual, especially in today's game when rarely is there so much uncertainty surrounding one of the most important positions on a football team.

"That's what camp is all about," said Reggie McKenzie, the Packers director of pro personnel.

It will be this year, when for the first time in more than a decade the Packers likely are to go into training camp without a clear-cut starting halfback. After the first rookies-only practice on Friday, McKenzie said he was feeling good about the position.

Brandon Jackson, who was Nebraska's primary back for less than one full season and was a junior entry into the draft, received the bulk of the workload during the 95-minute practice.

Jackson appears to be a good fit for the Packers' zone-blocking running scheme, because he played in a similar system at Nebraska under former Oakland Raiders head coach Bill Callahan.

"First of all, he's a good running back," McKenzie said. "He's quick. He's got great vision. He's hard to tackle. He's got all the attributes that we look for in a running back."

When Jackson and the rest of the rookies get thrown in with the full roster of veterans at the mandatory minicamp in two weeks, he likely will split time with third-year pro Vernand Morency.

"There's an opportunity here to come in and play right away and even an opportunity to start," Jackson said. "There's a big responsibility just because they've put a lot on me."

Jackson and Morency seemingly are similar backs. Both played in zone-blocking schemes in college (Morency at Oklahoma State). They have similar builds and both are listed as 5-foot-10, 212 pounds.

"You see some similar traits as far as cut-back ability and stuff like that," McKenzie said. "On paper, (Jackson's) faster. He's also bigger than what you think. He's got some thickness to him."

Jackson started only 11 of the 33 games he played at Nebraska and didn't become the Cornhuskers' go-to back until the second month of last season. He was one of Callahan's first recruits at Nebraska and was brought in with the zone scheme in mind.

Morency was acquired on Sept. 13 from the Houston Texans in a trade for Samkon Gado, because he was a better fit for the zone scheme than Gado. Morency had a 99-yard game against Philadelphia in his first extended playing opportunity. He later had a 101-yard game against Arizona. He missed two games due to a back injury, then briefly fumbled his way out of the top backup job behind Ahman Green and Noah Herron. Some scouts view Morency asnothing more than a change-of-pace back.

Barring injury, Jackson and Morency likely will be the top candidates to replace Green, who signed a four-year, $23 million contract with the Texans in free agency. However, the Packers have four other halfbacks on their roster — Herron, P.J. Pope, Arliss Beach and rookie DeShawn Wynn.

Herron has been a third-down back for most of the last two seasons but rushed for 106 yards last season against St. Louis after replacing Morency, who fumbled twice in the early stages of the game. Pope was a midseason pickup off Chicago's practice squad but played in only one game. Beach, an undrafted free agent from Kentucky, looked good early in training camp last year before he sustained a season-ending ankle injury. Wynn, a seventh-round pick from Florida, is raw.

Not only are the Packers lacking an obvious starting back, but there's no clear-cut short-yardage back. Neither Jackson nor Morency seemingly would have the straight-ahead power to be effective in that role. At 232 pounds, Wynn is the heaviest of the six backs.

"The good thing about it (is) they're all young," Wynn said of the contingent of running backs. "You don't have one veteran back, so it's a lot of open space for opportunity and competition, which I'm looking forward to."

##########################

Personally, I think Jackson will be one of the few RB's to put up viable fantasy stats this year (probably RB3 numbers with RB2 upside). If you read between the lines, the Packers coaching staff don't seem to have alot of confidence in Morency. Most are predicting full RBBC but I see Jackson getting the bulk of the carries on 1st and 2nd down this year unless the Packers acquire another veteran free agent RB.

 

[WhoDat]

Did the Packers just draft J. Rodgers?

I missed a fair amount of college football this fall but I work/ do business with a former Husker, who also has a kid at the school. We talked. CC was nice enough to compare/share notes offline too. My understanding is that Jackson bass acked his way into that starting role mid year, as Lucky had some problems holding the football and staying healthy.

If there is a hardcore, Husker homer around, please chime in regarding Jackson. Considering this kid is now going 1.04 and has a trade/asking price that appears to be nearly as valuable as the 1.02, would someone educate me...us? Seriously, I am seeking first to understand because I am having a hard time seeing the talent. I get the opportunity and current/temporary situation at Green Bay, etc. but I am not seeing it in the player (Jackson).

What did I or am I miss/missing?

 

[Biabreakable]

Did the Packers just draft J. Rodgers?I missed a fair amount of college football this fall but I work/ do business with a former Husker, who also has a kid at the school. We talked. CC was nice enough to compare/share notes offline too. My understanding is that Jackson bass acked his way into that starting role mid year, as Lucky had some problems holding the football and staying healthy. If there is a hardcore, Husker homer around, please chime in regarding Jackson. Considering this kid is now going 1.04 and has a trade/asking price that appears to be nearly as valuable as the 1.02, would someone educate me...us? Seriously, I am seeking first to understand because I am having a hard time seeing the talent. I get the opportunity and current/temporary situation at Green Bay, etc. but I am not seeing it in the player (Jackson). What did I or am I miss/missing?

Did you watch the tape?

 

[WhoDat]

Did the Packers just draft J. Rodgers?I missed a fair amount of college football this fall but I work/ do business with a former Husker, who also has a kid at the school. We talked. CC was nice enough to compare/share notes offline too. My understanding is that Jackson bass acked his way into that starting role mid year, as Lucky had some problems holding the football and staying healthy. If there is a hardcore, Husker homer around, please chime in regarding Jackson. Considering this kid is now going 1.04 and has a trade/asking price that appears to be nearly as valuable as the 1.02, would someone educate me...us? Seriously, I am seeking first to understand because I am having a hard time seeing the talent. I get the opportunity and current/temporary situation at Green Bay, etc. but I am not seeing it in the player (Jackson). What did I or am I miss/missing?

Did you watch the tape?

Yes, I did. My issue is that his resume...body or work...is very, very small. Thus, any more information a Husker homer could provide would be beneficial.

 

[Biabreakable]

Did the Packers just draft J. Rodgers?I missed a fair amount of college football this fall but I work/ do business with a former Husker, who also has a kid at the school. We talked. CC was nice enough to compare/share notes offline too. My understanding is that Jackson bass acked his way into that starting role mid year, as Lucky had some problems holding the football and staying healthy. If there is a hardcore, Husker homer around, please chime in regarding Jackson. Considering this kid is now going 1.04 and has a trade/asking price that appears to be nearly as valuable as the 1.02, would someone educate me...us? Seriously, I am seeking first to understand because I am having a hard time seeing the talent. I get the opportunity and current/temporary situation at Green Bay, etc. but I am not seeing it in the player (Jackson). What did I or am I miss/missing?

Did you watch the tape?

Yes, I did. My issue is that his resume...body or work...is very, very small. Thus, any more information a Husker homer could provide would be beneficial.

Ok. I agree.Arsenal of Doom is such a person and who 1st brought my attention to Jackson. He would be a good source.There is a limited body of work to draw upon period. There just is no way around that. If Jackson had stayed another season in college then perhaps he could have improved his draft stock. I have heard rumblings that next year will be a very strong Rb class led by McFadden. Jackson must have been advised to enter the draft now. Green Bay I am sure did extensive research on him and was willing to take a chance with Jackson even with his small body of work.I would love to hear more from people familiar with the program as well though.

 

[mcintyre1]

Did the Packers just draft J. Rodgers?I missed a fair amount of college football this fall but I work/ do business with a former Husker, who also has a kid at the school. We talked. CC was nice enough to compare/share notes offline too. My understanding is that Jackson bass acked his way into that starting role mid year, as Lucky had some problems holding the football and staying healthy. If there is a hardcore, Husker homer around, please chime in regarding Jackson. Considering this kid is now going 1.04 and has a trade/asking price that appears to be nearly as valuable as the 1.02, would someone educate me...us? Seriously, I am seeking first to understand because I am having a hard time seeing the talent. I get the opportunity and current/temporary situation at Green Bay, etc. but I am not seeing it in the player (Jackson). What did I or am I miss/missing?

Did you watch the tape?

Yes, I did. My issue is that his resume...body or work...is very, very small. Thus, any more information a Husker homer could provide would be beneficial.

Ok. I agree.Arsenal of Doom is such a person and who 1st brought my attention to Jackson. He would be a good source.There is a limited body of work to draw upon period. There just is no way around that. If Jackson had stayed another season in college then perhaps he could have improved his draft stock. I have heard rumblings that next year will be a very strong Rb class led by McFadden. Jackson must have been advised to enter the draft now. Green Bay I am sure did extensive research on him and was willing to take a chance with Jackson even with his small body of work.I would love to hear more from people familiar with the program as well though.

Read anything I've written so far. I've been a devoted Husker fan since about '95 (when I was old enough to understand football). Jackson in no was "Bass acked" his way into the starting role. He genuinely outplayed everyone else on the roster. Jackson was #4 heading into the season, and worked his way up to unquestioned #1 by the end of the season. He has far superior vision to Lucky, but is not as fast. He runs tougher than Lucky, but not as tough as Kenny Wilson or Cody Glenn, he is a very "slippery" runner. You could always depend on Jackson to make something out of nothing.