Breaking a 4-way Tie (1 Viewer)

[kutta]

Here's a big reason why I don't care for the head to head tie breaker.  Some may say that sweeping a team in your division means your team is much better but both of those wins may have been by a total of 5 points and you both had your worst games of the year.  All you're saying is that your team was slightly less worse than my team during those match ups even though my team was much better every other game the rest of the season.  Just because your team beat me on my worst two games means you had the better team than me?  I would think the team that scored the most points throughout the year deserves the tie break.

I know this way seems unfair to the person that won the match ups but this isn't real football where you're using the same players each week and able to play defense.  This is strictly based weekly match ups witch can be lucky.  I just think total points at the end of the year are based less on luck compared to head to head wins.

I totally understand what you're saying, and I'm in some leagues that do it that way. But there would be riots worse than Watts in my main friends league if someone beat someone else head to head and didn't make it.

 

[Hawkeye21]

I totally understand what you're saying, and I'm in some leagues that do it that way. But there would be riots worse than Watts in my main friends league if someone beat someone else head to head and didn't make it.

That just seems odd to be upset about that but I suppose if your league has done it that way forever it's hard to change.

In my dynasty league I scored the most points and have the same record as one other guy for first place.  The league rules must use head to head as the tie breaker because it gave him first place and me second.  Just seems wrong to me but oh well, I still got a first round bye.

 

[kutta]

That just seems odd to be upset about that but I suppose if your league has done it that way forever it's hard to change.

In my dynasty league I scored the most points and have the same record as one other guy for first place.  The league rules must use head to head as the tie breaker because it gave him first place and me second.  Just seems wrong to me but oh well, I still got a first round bye.

I think it's a remnant of an old league. There was no easy way to track total points when we started. We just looked in the newspaper and figured out if we beat our opponent and moved on to the next week. 

 

[FreeBaGeL]

What is the logic in using H2H over total points? Seems crazy to me.

I can score 150 more points than the guy I'm tied with, but since he beat me the week I had 5 guys on the bye then he gets in?

So much more fair to do total points, which accounts for how a team did over the whole season, instead of basing it on 1 or 2 random weeks during the season.

The other nice thing is you don't have to worry about all this tiebreaker junk. Just look at points.

What is the logic in using win/loss record over points scored in the first place? 

Because it is more fun, not because it is more fair. 

Fantasy football is not about fairness, it's about your tolerance for how much fairness you're willing to sacrifice for fun. Most of my leagues use points as the first tiebreak but I'd be lying if I said the one league that uses division record and h2h wasn't generally more fun. It definitely creates rivalries and games that owners go into wanting to win more than others. 

If being fair were the top priority then we should all be playing roto style. 

 

[Dope]

I can't believe this is still being talked about....actually yes I can.

I can say this about our league. We've made H2H an integral part because it's designed to be a competitive-casual league. In short, it's 50 bucks a team, so the money isnt a big deal. It's BEATING your friend/co-worker that is the big deal. Some people actually like that approach. That doesn't make it wrong or right, it just makes it what it is. All 48 owners in these leagues like this approach without fail. The ones that do not, are likely in different leagues that do the standings and tie-breakers differently. They are free to leave if they would like, but even if they prefer a more "points-based" method for standings, they remain in the league because it's a great league. It's competitive. It's challenging. There is a lot of strategy but new-comers are not over-whelmed. It's FUNNNNNN.

We put an emphasis on H2H and individual matchups and that makes it fun for US. Some of the harder-core players even plan their draft sheets around winning the division and making sure that their lineups are stronger for division games. Just for an extra edge. That's great team management on the meta-scale if you ask me. I believe Draft Dominator (i dont use DD anymore) will even allow you to weigh players for specific weeks.

Back to the original question...we went with the way MFL has it based upon our selected tie-breaking criteria (it went all the wat to points)  as the ultimate tie-breaker for this year and will have a vote in the off-season about how to do tie-breakers for the following seasons.

Thanks to all for the discussion on this topic. Talking about things with an open mind allows one to appreciate each side.

 

[Skoo]

What is the logic in using win/loss record over points scored in the first place? 

Because it is more fun, not because it is more fair. 

Fantasy football is not about fairness, it's about your tolerance for how much fairness you're willing to sacrifice for fun. Most of my leagues use points as the first tiebreak but I'd be lying if I said the one league that uses division record and h2h wasn't generally more fun. It definitely creates rivalries and games that owners go into wanting to win more than others. 

If being fair were the top priority then we should all be playing roto style. 

You are correct, I did mention earlier that we only play H2H because total points would be boring. And while I've never done the H2H tiebreaker thing and still prefer total points, you make a good point about each game being a bigger deal because that tiebreaker may come in to play later. Never really looked at it that way.

 

[Hawkeye21]

I can't believe this is still being talked about....actually yes I can.

I can say this about our league. We've made H2H an integral part because it's designed to be a competitive-casual league. In short, it's 50 bucks a team, so the money isnt a big deal. It's BEATING your friend/co-worker that is the big deal. Some people actually like that approach. That doesn't make it wrong or right, it just makes it what it is. All 48 owners in these leagues like this approach without fail. The ones that do not, are likely in different leagues that do the standings and tie-breakers differently. They are free to leave if they would like, but even if they prefer a more "points-based" method for standings, they remain in the league because it's a great league. It's competitive. It's challenging. There is a lot of strategy but new-comers are not over-whelmed. It's FUNNNNNN.

We put an emphasis on H2H and individual matchups and that makes it fun for US. Some of the harder-core players even plan their draft sheets around winning the division and making sure that their lineups are stronger for division games. Just for an extra edge. That's great team management on the meta-scale if you ask me. I believe Draft Dominator (i dont use DD anymore) will even allow you to weigh players for specific weeks.

Back to the original question...we went with the way MFL has it based upon our selected tie-breaking criteria (it went all the wat to points)  as the ultimate tie-breaker for this year and will have a vote in the off-season about how to do tie-breakers for the following seasons.

Thanks to all for the discussion on this topic. Talking about things with an open mind allows one to appreciate each side.

Are you talking about changing the whole league standings to total points or just the tie breakers?  I think most here all agree that head to head weekly match ups is the most fun but when it come to breaking ties it just makes more sense to use total points.

 

[Dope]

Are you talking about changing the whole league standings to total points or just the tie breakers?  I think most here all agree that head to head weekly match ups is the most fun but when it come to breaking ties it just makes more sense to use total points.

Just as tie-breaking criteria....sorry i started rambling there for a minute

 

[Chapelboy]

This is where we disagree.

If they outscored you over the course of a season, they had the better team. Period.

The only reason we do H2H matchups to begin with is that if we just did total points it would be boring. But total points is without a doubt the most accurate way to tell how well a team did during the year.

Yes, in real sports they go by H2H. 

But fantasy is different, because we don't play defense. Unlike real sports, we have no control over how many points our opponent scores. That part is all luck of the draw.

True...unless, like me, you devised an IDP league that subtracts your IDP points from your opponents Offensive points...thereby having a direct effect on the outcome of the game

 

[Hawkeye21]

True...unless, like me, you devised an IDP league that subtracts your IDP points from your opponents Offensive points...thereby having a direct effect on the outcome of the game

How is that possible?

 

[Chapelboy]

How is that possible?

sent you a PM

 

[Raging weasel]

So in leagues where total points determines div winner it's possible a team with zero div wins takes the div over a team that won all their div games? That doesn't seem right.

 

[Pigskin Fanatic]

If they outscored you over the course of a season, they had the better team. Period.

The only reason we do H2H matchups to begin with is that if we just did total points it would be boring. But total points is without a doubt the most accurate way to tell how well a team did during the year.

I agree with ur conclusion, but this reasoning isn't right. It would be true in rotisserie leagues, but not in H2H leagues. Higher points team is not the best, really ever. At a micro level look at Julio Jones for this year. He's top 5 in scoring as of last week, but every other game he had like 5 points. He almost killed my season. Was he better than another receiver, say Terrelle Pryor, who has significantly less points but did more to help me win on a week to week basis because he was much more consistent in teens scoring weekly? No. Pryor is the reason I'm in the playoffs, not Julio. Unless I misunderstand what you're saying, in which case I guess I just agree.

H2H as a tiebreaker should be a last resort in fantasy.