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Breaking Down the Tape - Felix Jones (1 Viewer)

Wildman said:
ConstruxBoy said:
Wildman said:
I think hip level-knee bend has something to do with what we might be talking about here. Any type of power you generate when it comes to delivering or deflecting a blow comes from the legs and hips. Not only do they have to be strong, but they need to be positioned well to transfer energy from yourself to someone else. They explain this in more detail on shows that study the physics of martial arts--i.e., National Geographic's show where they hook up UFC fighters like Randy Couture to sensors that measure force and flow of energy throughout the body. I know it seems a bit like a jump to apply this to a running back, but its not. Think about a runner heading through the line of scrimmage and they face a DT, LB, or DB greeting them head-on. If your hips are and knees are bent, your shoulders generally have to be leaning forward and a bit lower and you can explode into the contact and the energy transfers from your legs in the ground up your hips and to the point of contact with the defender. A great runner has learned (and by repetition and natural talent begins to intuitively understand) how to subtly change the angle of contact in close quarters while delivering enough of a blow to "shed" the tackle if not just knock guy on his butt. This is why a back like Eddie George who "ran too high" coming out of college actually was a good NFL player. He was taller than the average back, but he knew how to lower his shoulders and bend his knees and hips so more times than not he exploded into contact. Same with Eric Dickerson. Most people remember his "upright" running style, but if you watch highlights that don't involve him running through creases untouched for 40-60 yards and looking like Carl Lewis in pads, you'll see a guy who could get low very quick and deliver a blow with his shoulders into contact. Adrian Peterson is capable of the same thing. I never once worried about his upright running style. The guy has monstrously great balance. When I first thought about comparisons to Peterson vs. McFadden I would watch how McFadden would get yanked out of bounds by the arm a hit to the hips, or a horse collar and see right away from the standpoint of balance Peterson is way different--he stayed in bounds on plays like this all the time (which is what is one of quite a few things special about his skills). But this also has to do with hip and leg alignment and strength. When I see McFadden in the hole he gets yanked backwards more than many backs (even compared to 6-0, 200-lb Felix Smith) in the hole or knocked down on is butt from head-on hits because his knee bend and hip bend is just not there. How can you tell, look at his shoulders. A back like George or Dickerson often ran as if their shoulders were a big hand on a clock pointed to the number 2 or at worst between the number 1 and number 2. A back like McFadden is somewhere between the 12 and 1 and never quite at 1. It's why when he is going into a hole and gets hit, he'll fall backwards more than the average NFL quality prospect. A back like Edgerrin James, who is unbelievably good at getting low often gets closer to the number 3 with his shoulder lean and while still running forward. You can't do this unless your hips and knees are bent. Felix Jones keeps his shoulders between the 1 and 2 position on the clock when running through traffic. It's why he most often falls forward and I'm not as worried about his prospects from this standpoint.
:hot: You know who I thought was bad at this last year? Michael Bush. It seemed like he never changed the angle of the blow and took a lot of head on tackles. Interested to see how he does in the NFL.
Besides reading football technique books and watching lots of film, there are lots of analysts who actually know what they are talking about. For instance with QBs or WRs, you get a ton of useful information not only from a quality QB or WR but a CB like Eric Allen or safety like Darren Woodson. The same goes for RBs when you listen to LBs. The first guy who really talked about Michael Bush in a more critical light was Chris Spielman. In just a few minutes, you could tell he could give a clinic on how to be a better runner. He nailed Bush for exactly all his deficiencies as a junior. At the same time, he liked a guy like DeAngelo Williams who will finally get his chance as a feature back, barring a draft-day surprise.
No offense, but at this point we have no idea if Spielman is right: we don't know whether Williams or Bush will be a better back. It is true that Bush runs with an upright style, but he breaks through arm tackles in an exceptional way.
 
At the time, he was talking about Bush's very tentative nature in short yardage situations. This was as a junior mind you and it was very clear to see. Here's a huge man at the RB position trying to get cute with where to run when he had the size advantage to hit the hole hard and get 1-2 yards for the score. Spielman was absolutely right at the time and sorry if I didn't make this clear, but I was referring to what he said about Bush as a junior and what you can learn from listening to people who played the game and had to study their opponent more than Bush's overall prospects.

 
At the time, he was talking about Bush's very tentative nature in short yardage situations. This was as a junior mind you and it was very clear to see. Here's a huge man at the RB position trying to get cute with where to run when he had the size advantage to hit the hole hard and get 1-2 yards for the score. Spielman was absolutely right at the time and sorry if I didn't make this clear, but I was referring to what he said about Bush as a junior and what you can learn from listening to people who played the game and had to study their opponent more than Bush's overall prospects.
Bush was sort of funny like that because most big guys spend too much time being physical instead of seeing other ways to gain more yards, almost by instinct due to their size and the fact that they could get away with running defenders over in HS and college. But Bush didn't really run with power or strength and spent too much time looking around, as odd as that sounds. I always suspected that it was because he didn't have fully developed RB instincts because he was a QB in HS and not a pure RB. Chaos Commish has told me many times that he had changed that and was more effective being physical in that first game of his senior season before the broken leg.
 
At the time, he was talking about Bush's very tentative nature in short yardage situations. This was as a junior mind you and it was very clear to see. Here's a huge man at the RB position trying to get cute with where to run when he had the size advantage to hit the hole hard and get 1-2 yards for the score. Spielman was absolutely right at the time and sorry if I didn't make this clear, but I was referring to what he said about Bush as a junior and what you can learn from listening to people who played the game and had to study their opponent more than Bush's overall prospects.
Bush was sort of funny like that because most big guys spend too much time being physical instead of seeing other ways to gain more yards, almost by instinct due to their size and the fact that they could get away with running defenders over in HS and college. But Bush didn't really run with power or strength and spent too much time looking around, as odd as that sounds. I always suspected that it was because he didn't have fully developed RB instincts because he was a QB in HS and not a pure RB. Chaos Commish has told me many times that he had changed that and was more effective being physical in that first game of his senior season before the broken leg.
I watched that first game but I honestly don't remember if he was or not. I do remembering watching enough carries of his backup Stripling to do some study on him so I'm not sure a half of football means a lot in regards to Bush's old habit. Especially now that he's been away from live game action for what will be nearly two years. Hopefully he has...it's always cool to see a player succeed.
 
ConstruxBoy said:
cstu said:
The second problem with a lack of touches is wondering why the back has so few touches. Of course, playing with a fantastic running back in Darren McFadden is going to limit touches for many running backs. But even playing alongside Heisman Trophy winner Reggie Bush in 2005, LenDale White had 37.5% of the team carries. Jones had 21.3% of Arkansas' carries in 2007.
Further solidifies my belief in McFadden since he can hold a RB as good as Felix to 21% of the carries.
Excellent point, although I have two thoughts there. One is that they ran so many plays in the WildCat formation with McFadden at QB that he touches the ball a lot. And I believe that he generally decides whether to hand it off or not, so it may be more of him wanting the ball in his hands than the coaches not liking Jones as much. Secondly, I've seen Arkansas fans put down Houston Nutt/David Lee as offensive minds, so maybe they should have been calling more plays for Jones?
Correct on McFadden making the decision on those hand-offs.And there are many fans wondering why Jones didn't get more touches. :lmao:
 
ConstruxBoy said:
cstu said:
The second problem with a lack of touches is wondering why the back has so few touches. Of course, playing with a fantastic running back in Darren McFadden is going to limit touches for many running backs. But even playing alongside Heisman Trophy winner Reggie Bush in 2005, LenDale White had 37.5% of the team carries. Jones had 21.3% of Arkansas' carries in 2007.
Further solidifies my belief in McFadden since he can hold a RB as good as Felix to 21% of the carries.
Excellent point, although I have two thoughts there. One is that they ran so many plays in the WildCat formation with McFadden at QB that he touches the ball a lot. And I believe that he generally decides whether to hand it off or not, so it may be more of him wanting the ball in his hands than the coaches not liking Jones as much. Secondly, I've seen Arkansas fans put down Houston Nutt/David Lee as offensive minds, so maybe they should have been calling more plays for Jones?
Correct on McFadden making the decision on those hand-offs.And there are many fans wondering why Jones didn't get more touches. :lmao:
Thanks Clayton, that's what I thought. He reads the defense and makes the decision to hand to Jones or keep it for himself. As I said in the article, it doesn't mean he won't be a great NFL back, but it certainly makes it harder to evaluate him, through no fault of his own.
 
His real height is 5'10, not 6'0, and 207 lbs. Why is college Height / Weight always inflated? Why shouldn't they be required to list this accurately?
I think this is one of the big things for which the Combine provides value.
 
Felix Jones fans, I think he is overrated from everything that I have seen. Prove to me that I should take him in my rookie draft.
Back to back years over 7YPC in the SEC.
True, and I think that shows he has some speed and quickness. But I also think that it was partially due to having big holes to run through that he likely won't see in the NFL. McFadden took a lot of attention away from him and they used a ton of spread/misdirection plays. Should be interesting to see where he lands.
 
Felix Jones fans, I think he is overrated from everything that I have seen. Prove to me that I should take him in my rookie draft.
Back to back years over 7YPC in the SEC.
True, and I think that shows he has some speed and quickness. But I also think that it was partially due to having big holes to run through that he likely won't see in the NFL. McFadden took a lot of attention away from him and they used a ton of spread/misdirection plays. Should be interesting to see where he lands.
Thats exactly how I feel....with that gimmick offense with Mcfadden at QB.....how can we truely judge those two?
 
Felix also demonstrated great vision and decisiveness on kick returns, and will most likely be one of the best in the NFL at those as soon as he touches the field. I think that shows that he can make decisions quickly, has tremendous acceleration, and is extremely elusive. I tend to view Felix as being in the same tier as McFadden, Stewart, and Mendenhall, and feel he is well suited for the pro game. My slight concern with him (as I have said before) is his upper body strength, but that is something that can be worked on. As far as speed, instincts, elusiveness, vision...you either have them or you don't. He does...

 
Felix also demonstrated great vision and decisiveness on kick returns, and will most likely be one of the best in the NFL at those as soon as he touches the field. I think that shows that he can make decisions quickly, has tremendous acceleration, and is extremely elusive. I tend to view Felix as being in the same tier as McFadden, Stewart, and Mendenhall, and feel he is well suited for the pro game. My slight concern with him (as I have said before) is his upper body strength, but that is something that can be worked on. As far as speed, instincts, elusiveness, vision...you either have them or you don't. He does...
Can he break tackles? Run inside? These are things that I am wondering about.If you could put Ray Rice and Felix Jones together.....there might not be any questions.
 
Felix also demonstrated great vision and decisiveness on kick returns, and will most likely be one of the best in the NFL at those as soon as he touches the field. I think that shows that he can make decisions quickly, has tremendous acceleration, and is extremely elusive. I tend to view Felix as being in the same tier as McFadden, Stewart, and Mendenhall, and feel he is well suited for the pro game. My slight concern with him (as I have said before) is his upper body strength, but that is something that can be worked on. As far as speed, instincts, elusiveness, vision...you either have them or you don't. He does...
Can he break tackles? Run inside? These are things that I am wondering about.If you could put Ray Rice and Felix Jones together.....there might not be any questions.
I don't think breaking tackles is his strength, but I also think he can run pretty hard when he wants to. He didn't run too frequently in college between the tackles, but I think his instincts will help him in this area. Basically, I'm a believer and think he can do it all...
 
Jedimaster21 said:
Felix also demonstrated great vision and decisiveness on kick returns, and will most likely be one of the best in the NFL at those as soon as he touches the field. I think that shows that he can make decisions quickly, has tremendous acceleration, and is extremely elusive. I tend to view Felix as being in the same tier as McFadden, Stewart, and Mendenhall, and feel he is well suited for the pro game. My slight concern with him (as I have said before) is his upper body strength, but that is something that can be worked on. As far as speed, instincts, elusiveness, vision...you either have them or you don't. He does...
Can he break tackles? Run inside? These are things that I am wondering about.If you could put Ray Rice and Felix Jones together.....there might not be any questions.
I don't think breaking tackles is his strength, but I also think he can run pretty hard when he wants to. He didn't run too frequently in college between the tackles, but I think his instincts will help him in this area. Basically, I'm a believer and think he can do it all...
But why are you a believer? That is what I need to know.
 
Check these out. There have been some questions asked recently about Jones's hands (Chaos Commish in another thread). I believe he has at least average hands, and is great in the open field once he catches the ball. If someone receives kickoffs, their hands can't be awful, right?

In this highlight he seems to be running through "junk" quite a bit, which translates pretty well to what he will be required to do between the tackles. He doesn't need a ton of space to be effective (make sure you check out college video 1 and All America First team).

http://collegefootball.rivals.com/video.as...amp;vidid=32978

High school, but it gives you an idea of his running style...

http://collegefootball.rivals.com/video.as...amp;vidid=27954

http://collegefootball.rivals.com/video.as...amp;vidid=27955

I am also slightly worried about his strength, as I have mentioned before. However, he benched 255 in high school, with a max squat of 550. As long as he keeps his thick lower body, he can work on upper body strength without losing speed.

Some more info on Jones from NFLDraftscout.com

Analysis

Positives: Has a lean frame, but shows good muscle development and bubble, well-defined thighs and calves, large hands, wide back and room to carry at least another 10 pounds of bulk with no loss of quickness...Has excellent quickness and explosion coming out of his stance into the rush lanes...Demonstrates the feet and balance to pick his way through trash and stay upright after initial contact...Has pick-and-slide agility to make tacklers miss, especially when he turns the corner...Plays with good toughness and competitiveness, as he will lower his head and square his shoulders to drive through after contact...Not really a punishing runner, but easily bounces off tackles and gives second effort when the rush lane is clogged...Self-starter and hard worker in the training room and will put in extra time watching film...Mature with good field intelligence and vision...Has a good attitude, as he never complained about sharing the rush load, despite his obvious pedigree...Has the sudden moves out of his stance to gain advantage and the quickness to avoid and accelerate past defenders...Shows a natural feel for the crease and displays excellent vision and hip swerve as he weaves through traffic, picking his feet nicely over trash...Hits the hole with no hesitation, showing the explosive leg drive to break arm tackles, as he works hard to get upfield inside and clear the line of scrimmage...Has a low center of gravity, which allows him to keep his base moving through tight areas and does not need to gear down when cutting...Instinctive in his movements, displaying the vision to see threats...Uses his blocks well...When he keeps his pad level low going through the rush lane, he has the short-area explosion and juke moves to elude defenders turning the corner, as he excels at cutting sharply with good acceleration...Has the body control and foot agility to step and slide on his way to avoid tackles...Has made strides in being more patient to let his blocks develop, showing a good feel for the hole and vision to spot the seam in the zone...Can find the inside hole but will run a little upright doing this and he knows how to adjust on the move, using impressive pick, slide and acceleration through the holes...Has the balance needed to keep his feet and shows a sharp burst out of his cuts...Has outstanding lateral range to gain yards in chunks on outside runs, utilizing excellent change-of-direction agility to can freeze defenders with fakes and body lean...As a junior, he displayed much better ball security and the hands to handle pitchouts (had problems grabbing the ball on the fly and running with it in 2006, resulting in five fumbles, compared to one in 2007)...Has improved his patience waiting for the toss to develop before trying to burst through the seam or turn the corner...One of his better assets is his ability to accelerate into the second level, redirect and break away for the long run...Very fast-twitched runner when attacking the hole and, while he might go down on first contact at times, he has that vision to locate small seams, sink his pads and try to slip past...Has the ability to jump-cut and shoot upfield...Has a very good feel to anticipate where the rushing lanes are and does a good job of keeping his pad level to break arm tackles around the corner (not as effective running inside)...Adequate pass catcher who shows good concentration and flexibility in his pass routes, extending his hands properly away from the framework, but will use his body as a crutch when working in a crowd...Makes good body adjustments toward the ball and shows patience, body control and vision waiting for blocks to develop as a returner...Best asset as a kickoff returner is that he creative enough to vary his speed, set up the defender, execute a fake and then accelerate into the open.

Negatives: Has to learn to run at a lower pad level when running through the inside holes...Will get erect in his stance as an attempt to squeeze through tight areas...Has good leg drive, but will make bigger gains when trying to avoid, as he is generally brought down on the initial hit when operating in a crowd...He had just 22 runs on which the opposition needed more than one defender to take him down on 133 attempts in 2007...Elusive runner who does a good job of squaring up before initial contact, but must improve his body lean, as he does not do a good job of falling forward...Pitter-patter running style will see him get up on his toes...Just an adequate receiver who needs route-running refinement, as he tends to round his cuts...While he shows good hands on returns, as a receiver, he does not get to the ball at its highest point and can get a little sloppy trying to explode out of his breaks...Despite showing aggression as a blocker, his size prevents him from gaining leverage vs. bigger defenders (will get a piece of his man, but his weight-room strength fails to translate to the field, as he is not the type that can overpower second-level defenders).

Compares To: CARNELL WILLIAMS-Tampa Bay...Both are best taking the ball outside. Jones is a water bug on the field, excelling at avoiding defenders when he clears the line of scrimmage. He has a Devin Hester-type of burst as a kickoff returner and has worked well within the two-back system. Team him up with a powerful inside runner and you will get better value. We doubt his frame can handle pounding associated with touching the ball 30 times a game at the next level, especially if he doesn't learn how to run at a lower pad level between the tackles. He greatly improved his ball-security ability as a junior, something that turned out to be a major problem for his running mate, Darren McFadden. Some teams might prefer Jones over McFadden, as he has greater avoidance skills, while McFadden is more likely to seek contact and has a few off-field issues to be investigated.

Injury Report

2007: Bothered by a stomach virus vs. Kentucky (9/22)...Suffered a deep thigh bruise early in the Tennessee game (11/10) and was limited to just four plays vs. the Vols and one play the next game vs. Mississippi State (11/17).

 
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Felix has obviously been working out since the combine. His bench improved from 8 to 13 in just a few weeks (McFadden also only benched 13). Gil Brandt, who knows a little something about football, also reports that he caught the ball very well. My two biggest concerns for Jones right now are strength and receiving ability, and these reports are lessening my worries a bit.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story;jsessionid=...mp;confirm=true

 
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Felix also demonstrated great vision and decisiveness on kick returns, and will most likely be one of the best in the NFL at those as soon as he touches the field. I think that shows that he can make decisions quickly, has tremendous acceleration, and is extremely elusive. I tend to view Felix as being in the same tier as McFadden, Stewart, and Mendenhall, and feel he is well suited for the pro game. My slight concern with him (as I have said before) is his upper body strength, but that is something that can be worked on. As far as speed, instincts, elusiveness, vision...you either have them or you don't. He does...
I am wondering about Arkansas and the bench press... because McFadden only did 13 at his workout, and Jones didn't do much at the Combine. Does anyone else think this may be a technique thing, not really a lack of strength thing?
 
Felix also demonstrated great vision and decisiveness on kick returns, and will most likely be one of the best in the NFL at those as soon as he touches the field. I think that shows that he can make decisions quickly, has tremendous acceleration, and is extremely elusive. I tend to view Felix as being in the same tier as McFadden, Stewart, and Mendenhall, and feel he is well suited for the pro game. My slight concern with him (as I have said before) is his upper body strength, but that is something that can be worked on. As far as speed, instincts, elusiveness, vision...you either have them or you don't. He does...
Can he break tackles? Run inside? These are things that I am wondering about.If you could put Ray Rice and Felix Jones together.....there might not be any questions.
Jones can break tackles, but he often didn't need to. And yes, watch film, he can run inside. But again, most plays didn't call for him to run inside. Go back to his HS film, he was amazing, and an everydown all around great RB.I strongly believe that anyone who passes on him will be missing out on one of the elite backs in this class.
 
Felix also demonstrated great vision and decisiveness on kick returns, and will most likely be one of the best in the NFL at those as soon as he touches the field. I think that shows that he can make decisions quickly, has tremendous acceleration, and is extremely elusive. I tend to view Felix as being in the same tier as McFadden, Stewart, and Mendenhall, and feel he is well suited for the pro game. My slight concern with him (as I have said before) is his upper body strength, but that is something that can be worked on. As far as speed, instincts, elusiveness, vision...you either have them or you don't. He does...
I am wondering about Arkansas and the bench press... because McFadden only did 13 at his workout, and Jones didn't do much at the Combine. Does anyone else think this may be a technique thing, not really a lack of strength thing?
I heard McFadden blame his low bench total on an upperbody injury during an interview on NFL Sirius Radio. Sorry, no link.
 

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