Breakout WRs: Holmes vs Marshall (1 Viewer)

[Deuce'sWild]

Two guys I have on my radar that could be huge this year are Santonio Holmes and Brandon Marshall. Both had good years last year, and I think both have top 5 potential this year.

Both are going in the 4th round or earlier, have good young QBs and are the #1 option on their respective team.

Who has the better year this year and why?

 

[King of the Jungle]

In case you missed it, BMarsh had a pretty decent year last year. I expect more of the same this year for him.

Holmes is a deep threat on a team w/ oline issues.

WINNER = Marshall by a mile

 

[Deuce'sWild]

In case you missed it, BMarsh had a pretty decent year last year. I expect more of the same this year for him.

Holmes is a deep threat on a team w/ oline issues.

WINNER = Marshall by a mile

I didn't miss it, I stated it in my post. I think he has top 5 potential this year though...as does Holmes

 

[Da Man]

I really think Marshall is going to be HUGE this year. I like Holmes to but would definately choose Brandon if I had the choice. Of course I like them each of them and got both on my auction squad!!

 

[Anthony Borbely]

I do not think Holmes has anything close to top 5 potential. Marshall definitely does, but whether he actually does it remains to be seen.

 

[Irish]

I landed both, but if your league is PPR than Marshall is the pick.

 

[puckalicious]

I'm pretty sure Marshall will get alot more targets than Holmes, even with missing 1 game. I also expect Marshall to be used more as a redzone threat than Holmes.

 

[Cookiemonster]

Agree. Personally, I think Holmes is the better NFL WR, but he has so many other weapons to share the ball with, that Marshall takes the stat sheet and fantasy title in a cakewalk on this one.

 

[DrJamesAndrews Fan]

Marshall

 

[whodeywhodey]

I think this is a little closer than some of you are saying. I will concede that I would rather have Marshall, but I think that the chemistry that Holmes and Ben are building cannot be overlooked. It seems that they are very well connected almost in a Manning-Harrison sort of way. I think that Holmes has a very good shot of finishing in the top 10.

And I think that the number of weapons on the Steelers is both an asset and a drawback. Teams will have to respect the running game and the other options on offense which might leave a lot of one on one coverage on Holmes where he will be able to get open deep.

 

[thehornet]

I landed both, but if your league is PPR than Marshall is the pick.

it doesn't matter what type of league you are in. Marshall is the pick.

 

[Texican]

I landed both, but if your league is PPR than Marshall is the pick.

it doesn't matter what type of league you are in. Marshall is the pick.

 

[Buckeyedawgs]

If it's a long TD bonus league no PPR. (I used to play a league like this) Then I bet Holmes might win. But any other Marshall even with the suspension is what I would bet.

 

[Gbagzz]

In case you missed it, BMarsh had a pretty decent year last year. I expect more of the same this year for him.

Holmes is a deep threat on a team w/ oline issues.

WINNER = Marshall by a mile

I didn't miss it, I stated it in my post. I think he has top 5 potential this year though...as does Holmes

You're out of your mind. B/C the Steelers have such an unreal play action red zone D I can see Big Ben throwing over 28TDs but as long as they have a good running game I don't think he'll ever throw for more than 4000 yards. So many weapons on that team. I think Holmes is a great NFL talent but one of the most overrated wr's in the draft. Ward and Miller are too involved in the passing game for Holmes to see the targets to be Top 5 this season. Marshall is a beast more on the level of T.O., Andre Johnson, and Fitzy. Holmes is in that next or even the followin tier.

 

[Irish]

I landed both, but if your league is PPR than Marshall is the pick.

it doesn't matter what type of league you are in. Marshall is the pick.

Maybe not if your league rewards big points for long TDs.

 

[Irish]

If it's a long TD bonus league no PPR. (I used to play a league like this) Then I bet Holmes might win. But any other Marshall even with the suspension is what I would bet.

 

[Gbagzz]

I think this is a little closer than some of you are saying. I will concede that I would rather have Marshall, but I think that the chemistry that Holmes and Ben are building cannot be overlooked. It seems that they are very well connected almost in a Manning-Harrison sort of way. I think that Holmes has a very good shot of finishing in the top 10.And I think that the number of weapons on the Steelers is both an asset and a drawback. Teams will have to respect the running game and the other options on offense which might leave a lot of one on one coverage on Holmes where he will be able to get open deep.

Chemistry? Marshall had over 100 receptions from Cutler. If Ben and Holmes have chemistry then Marshall and Cutler must be soulmates

 

[thehornet]

I landed both, but if your league is PPR than Marshall is the pick.

it doesn't matter what type of league you are in. Marshall is the pick.

Maybe not if your league rewards big points for long TDs.

 

[Mr. Mojo]

I think this is a little closer than some of you are saying. I will concede that I would rather have Marshall, but I think that the chemistry that Holmes and Ben are building cannot be overlooked. It seems that they are very well connected almost in a Manning-Harrison sort of way. I think that Holmes has a very good shot of finishing in the top 10.And I think that the number of weapons on the Steelers is both an asset and a drawback. Teams will have to respect the running game and the other options on offense which might leave a lot of one on one coverage on Holmes where he will be able to get open deep.

Chemistry? Marshall had over 100 receptions from Cutler. If Ben and Holmes have chemistry then Marshall and Cutler must be soulmates

 

[The Lone Gunman]

I think this is a little closer than some of you are saying. I will concede that I would rather have Marshall, but I think that the chemistry that Holmes and Ben are building cannot be overlooked. It seems that they are very well connected almost in a Manning-Harrison sort of way. I think that Holmes has a very good shot of finishing in the top 10.And I think that the number of weapons on the Steelers is both an asset and a drawback. Teams will have to respect the running game and the other options on offense which might leave a lot of one on one coverage on Holmes where he will be able to get open deep.

Cash money post here. Saved me the effort.

 

[DrJamesAndrews Fan]

I think this is a little closer than some of you are saying. I will concede that I would rather have Marshall, but I think that the chemistry that Holmes and Ben are building cannot be overlooked. It seems that they are very well connected almost in a Manning-Harrison sort of way. I think that Holmes has a very good shot of finishing in the top 10.And I think that the number of weapons on the Steelers is both an asset and a drawback. Teams will have to respect the running game and the other options on offense which might leave a lot of one on one coverage on Holmes where he will be able to get open deep.

Chemistry? Marshall had over 100 receptions from Cutler. If Ben and Holmes have chemistry then Marshall and Cutler must be soulmates

Agree, I think Cutler and Marshall have such good chemistry, they even wear Fundies together.

 

[The Lone Gunman]

There's no doubt that each has great chemistry. If one didn't I don't think we would be having this conversation.

 

[aburt19]

I belong to a league that has bonuses for long touchdowns. Last year Marshall was worth 178 and Holmes was worth 151. Holmes missed two games. If he

plays a full 16 game schedule, those numbers would have been better.

I would still take Marshall first. But in a long touchdown league, it's closer than you would think.

 

[Tubalcane]

In the next few years Marshall has the potential of being the top WR drafted in fantasy football. I don't believe Holmes has that in him. One thing that seperates them to me is Marshall is tall and has outstanding leaping ability. He'll get more endzone TD's than Holmes. Holmes is not a good endzone target IMO.

Plus I think Marshall has a much better chance of breaking tackles.

 

[TheWick]

Agree. Personally, I think Holmes is the better NFL WR, but he has so many other weapons to share the ball with, that Marshall takes the stat sheet and fantasy title in a cakewalk on this one.

Curious as to why you think Holmes is the better NFL receiver? Marshall has some serious....SERIOUS RAC skills and also has Holmes deep threat ability. I don't think its a blowout but Marshall is top 5 is skills at the WR postion in this league in my opinion.

 

[Cookiemonster]

Agree. Personally, I think Holmes is the better NFL WR, but he has so many other weapons to share the ball with, that Marshall takes the stat sheet and fantasy title in a cakewalk on this one.

Curious as to why you think Holmes is the better NFL receiver? Marshall has some serious....SERIOUS RAC skills and also has Holmes deep threat ability. I don't think its a blowout but Marshall is top 5 is skills at the WR postion in this league in my opinion.

I think Holmes is the faster, better route runner w/ better hands and football IQ. Marshall has the size, strength and ups to be a better red zone threat but they are both very good RAC guys for opposite reasons. If I'm looking for a WR, route running is 1a and hands are 1b prerequisites. Not saying Marshall is lacking in either, just not as good as Holmes. Despite being a little on the small side, Holmes is probably the best athelete on the Steelers and is also no slouch when it comes to breaking tackles or ups.That said, Marshall's situation is much better. He has far less competition from teammates and his team will likely play from behind more often, even w/ the Steelers brutal schedule.ETA - Dynasty, I take Holmes. Redraft, I take Marshall.

 

[Manster]

seems to me Marshall(if he can stay out of trouble) will be a monster. he's built like TO, Cutler has a big arm, and he's got his diabetes under control. these two should light it up this yr. look for Marshall to be consistent wk in wk out.

Holmes on the other hand could disappear from wk to wk. Ward will still be the possession guy, plus what is Sweed gonna do? he'll definately get a handful of big plays.

i'll take Marshall, and hope he grows up.

 

[Irish]

seems to me Marshall(if he can stay out of trouble) will be a monster. he's built like TO, Cutler has a big arm, and he's got his diabetes under control. these two should light it up this yr. look for Marshall to be consistent wk in wk out.Holmes on the other hand could disappear from wk to wk. Ward will still be the possession guy, plus what is Sweed gonna do? he'll definately get a handful of big plays. i'll take Marshall, and hope he grows up.

Right now Sweed is the 5th wr on the Steelers. He will be no factor in Holmes season.

 

[Manster]

havent been following the depth chart of their WR's. whos ahead of him? Nate Washington?

you dont think Sweed will move up the ranks? just asking, as i havent' seen much of preseason so far.

 

[thehornet]

this really isn't debatable. Marshall is better in every facet of the game.

 

[Irish]

this really isn't debatable. Marshall is better in every facet of the game.

Holmes runs circles around him in route running ability.

 

[PahtyTom]

Holmes put up 950 and 8 on just 52 catches in only 13 games last year. His ypc is SICK and leaves room for a super high ceiling if he gets targeted like other #1WRs around the league. Marshall was the most targeted WR in the league last year, which is nice, but leaves less room for improvement unless he increases his catch rate a lot which doesn't usually happen. Both have good QBs, although Big Ben is better.

I take Holmes

 

[sterjs]

Brandon Marshall has a lot of room to decline. His numbers were impressive from a fantasy perspective, but his efficiency was mediocre.

Marshall: 102 Catches/170 Targets (60% Catch Rate), 1325 Yards (7.8 Yards/Attempt)

Holmes: 52 Catches/85 Targets (61%), 942 Yards (11.1 Yards/Attempt!)

Marshall led the league in targets last year and most of his value is tied up in his 33% Target Rate. Expect that number to regress in 2008. 7.8 yards/target is unspectacular for WRs.

Holmes was insanely efficient for the second year in around (close to 10 yards/target in 2007). If his targets increase, his production will explode.

 

[meanjoegreen]

havent been following the depth chart of their WR's. whos ahead of him? Nate Washington?you dont think Sweed will move up the ranks? just asking, as i havent' seen much of preseason so far.

Are you asking if Nate Washington is ahead of Holmes?

 

[puckalicious]

I don't know the answer to this, but doesn't it seem somewhat natural that a highly targeted WR has a lower YPC than a much less targeted WR?

 

[FavreCo]

In case you missed it, BMarsh had a pretty decent year last year. I expect more of the same this year for him. Holmes is a deep threat on a team w/ oline issues.WINNER = Marshall by a mile

You got that right. With 1 less game E-15 will still smoke Holmes.

 

[EugeneChung]

Brandon Marshall has a lot of room to decline. His numbers were impressive from a fantasy perspective, but his efficiency was mediocre.

Marshall: 102 Catches/170 Targets (60% Catch Rate), 1325 Yards (7.8 Yards/Attempt)

Holmes: 52 Catches/85 Targets (61%), 942 Yards (11.1 Yards/Attempt!)

Marshall led the league in targets last year and most of his value is tied up in his 33% Target Rate. Expect that number to regress in 2008. 7.8 yards/target is unspectacular for WRs.

Holmes was insanely efficient for the second year in around (close to 10 yards/target in 2007). If his targets increase, his production will explode.

Best post in this thread. Numbers, fellas. Numbers. I appreciate all the confidence from the BMarshall owners (I like the pick) but if Holmes can get up to 125-130 targets this year then watch out. With the running game in flux in Pit, an aging Ward, and a host of other uproven WRs, Holmes has the chance to put up some impressive stats. I like his chances and now he just has to stay healthy [knocking on wood].

 

[cubbie5150]

I own both in my main $$ league, so I'm hoping both go off.... I do expect Marshall to regress a bit; I'm hoping Holmes stays healthy b/c if he does, he's almost assured of good numbers.

 

[Bears_Man2]

I thought Marshall broke out last year, but Marshall by quite a bit (even with 15 games max) over Holmes. I haven't read the whole thread, but I base my responses on PPR leagues. Holmes is a deep threat guy and there's no reason that's going to change this year with Ward entrenched there.

I expect the Denver offense (and Cutler) to progress even further overall (and further into a pass first team)

 

[swampdog]

Two guys I have on my radar that could be huge this year are Santonio Holmes and Brandon Marshall. Both had good years last year, and I think both have top 5 potential this year. Both are going in the 4th round or earlier, have good young QBs and are the #1 option on their respective team. Who has the better year this year and why?

I think you are over estimating both WR's, there is a reason they are going in the 4th round, but in our "money" league they went much later. I believe that they are really struggling to make the top 14. That is where I see both of them and I give the lead to Holmes over Marshall. The reason is Denver has no offense and every defense will double and triple Marshall, when he starts to play in week 2 (by the way that is a slight negative, obviously, as well) in fact if you shut down Marshall your chances of winning are huge. As to Pitt they have plenty of options with two good RB's, a QB who is use to taking a serious amount of media pressure, a WR (Ward) who has been around since they had single bar helmets (I know not really but close), a decent TE, and a good couple of youngsters below him like Sweed and the one I like Washington. I really see Holmes having a better season later in the year when no one is noticing. So overall I see both WR's struggling to make the top 15-20, not so much on their skill but more based on competition around them and schemes devised to make them ineffective. That's the way I see the NFL as dealing with teams in todays world.Just my opinion and we shall see.Swamp

 

[Irish]

Two guys I have on my radar that could be huge this year are Santonio Holmes and Brandon Marshall. Both had good years last year, and I think both have top 5 potential this year. Both are going in the 4th round or earlier, have good young QBs and are the #1 option on their respective team. Who has the better year this year and why?

I think you are over estimating both WR's, there is a reason they are going in the 4th round, but in our "money" league they went much later. I believe that they are really struggling to make the top 14. That is where I see both of them and I give the lead to Holmes over Marshall. The reason is Denver has no offense and every defense will double and triple Marshall, when he starts to play in week 2 (by the way that is a slight negative, obviously, as well) in fact if you shut down Marshall your chances of winning are huge. As to Pitt they have plenty of options with two good RB's, a QB who is use to taking a serious amount of media pressure, a WR (Ward) who has been around since they had single bar helmets (I know not really but close), a decent TE, and a good couple of youngsters below him like Sweed and the one I like Washington. I really see Holmes having a better season later in the year when no one is noticing. So overall I see both WR's struggling to make the top 15-20, not so much on their skill but more based on competition around them and schemes devised to make them ineffective. That's the way I see the NFL as dealing with teams in todays world.Just my opinion and we shall see.Swamp

Personnel wise what has changed in Denver from last season? As far as Pitt goes, Ward is declining and Sweed and Nate Washington are no threat to take targets away from Holmes. Every report coming out of Pitt is that Holmes is looking awesome. They rave about his route running and great physical condition and he is working on his craft with Ward after every practice. IMHO both are top 10 with Marshall having a shot at top 5. No offense to you or your money league, but where they went in your money league holds no weight. I've played in money leagues where the owners were not that great, they just had money to spend to get into a money league.

 

[travdogg]

Brandon Marshall has a lot of room to decline. His numbers were impressive from a fantasy perspective, but his efficiency was mediocre.

Marshall: 102 Catches/170 Targets (60% Catch Rate), 1325 Yards (7.8 Yards/Attempt)

Holmes: 52 Catches/85 Targets (61%), 942 Yards (11.1 Yards/Attempt!)

Marshall led the league in targets last year and most of his value is tied up in his 33% Target Rate. Expect that number to regress in 2008. 7.8 yards/target is unspectacular for WRs.

Holmes was insanely efficient for the second year in around (close to 10 yards/target in 2007). If his targets increase, his production will explode.

Best post in this thread. Numbers, fellas. Numbers. I appreciate all the confidence from the BMarshall owners (I like the pick) but if Holmes can get up to 125-130 targets this year then watch out. With the running game in flux in Pit, an aging Ward, and a host of other uproven WRs, Holmes has the chance to put up some impressive stats. I like his chances and now he just has to stay healthy [knocking on wood].

Lotta if's here. If Holmes' targets increase, if Marshall's decrease. I guess I don't see it. What reason is there to think Holmes will get more than 100-110 targets? Why won't Marshall continue to be among the league leaders in targets? There is no evidence to support either will happen. Personally, I take Marshall at least a round before Holmes. In a PPR it's not even close.

 

[travdogg]

Brandon Marshall has a lot of room to decline. His numbers were impressive from a fantasy perspective, but his efficiency was mediocre.

Marshall: 102 Catches/170 Targets (60% Catch Rate), 1325 Yards (7.8 Yards/Attempt)

Holmes: 52 Catches/85 Targets (61%), 942 Yards (11.1 Yards/Attempt!)

Marshall led the league in targets last year and most of his value is tied up in his 33% Target Rate. Expect that number to regress in 2008. 7.8 yards/target is unspectacular for WRs.

Holmes was insanely efficient for the second year in around (close to 10 yards/target in 2007). If his targets increase, his production will explode.

Best post in this thread. Numbers, fellas. Numbers. I appreciate all the confidence from the BMarshall owners (I like the pick) but if Holmes can get up to 125-130 targets this year then watch out. With the running game in flux in Pit, an aging Ward, and a host of other uproven WRs, Holmes has the chance to put up some impressive stats. I like his chances and now he just has to stay healthy [knocking on wood].

Lotta if's here. If Holmes' targets increase, if Marshall's decrease. I guess I don't see it. What reason is there to think Holmes will get more than 100-110 targets? Why won't Marshall continue to be among the league leaders in targets? There is no evidence to support either will happen. Personally, I take Marshall at least a round before Holmes. In a PPR it's not even close.

 

[Cookiemonster]

I thought Marshall broke out last year, but Marshall by quite a bit (even with 15 games max) over Holmes. I haven't read the whole thread, but I base my responses on PPR leagues. Holmes is a deep threat guy and there's no reason that's going to change this year with Ward entrenched there.

I expect the Denver offense (and Cutler) to progress even further overall (and further into a pass first team)

Holmes is Ben's favorite deep threat target, but you can't pidgeonhole him as a "deep threat guy." He's a complete WR who is blossoming into one of the better in the league. He has better tools that Ward ever had, and is learning all of Ward's lessons pretty quickly. The two WRs have been joined @ the hip all summer and in summers past. Who has Marshall been learning from? Javon? :( I see them as pretty even prospects this year, w/ BM getting a slight edge because he's the only game in town, but if you're talking dynasty/keeper I'll take Holmes any day & twice on Sunday!