Can Corey Coleman and Josh Gordon Coexist? (1 Viewer)

[Flint Fireballs!]

If there's a thread on this, forgive me; I didn't see it.

I have invested in Corey Coleman (dynasty) and I need him to be at least a strong #2.  But regardless of what I need him to be, I'm interested in what he is and will be.

Now that Josh Gordon is back, these two will take the field for the first time together.  I have little faith in Deshone Kizer, but I can't help but to think that a good quarterback can feed both of these talented targets.  I imagine that Gordon would be the #1 in a perfect world.  However, in that perfect world, would Coleman still get to eat enough to make him the #2 receiver I need him to be.

I'm interested in hearing how coaching, the running game, and whatever other nuance may impact this evolving matter.

 

[NeverEnough]

Of course they can. QB play is the problem there.

 

[lod001]

If they can and they make a wise decision in the 2018 draft, that QB already has top of the line WRs at his disposal along with a freak TE in Njoku.

 

[zamboni]

The Gordon thread will have nothing of it, but we first need to see if three years later, Gordon is anywhere near what he used to be. While he was unbelievable in 2013, he didn't exactly dominate in the five games he did play in 2014. 

 

[ghostguy123]

The Gordon thread will have nothing of it, but we first need to see if three years later, Gordon is anywhere near what he used to be. While he was unbelievable in 2013, he didn't exactly dominate in the five games he did play in 2014. 

He was drunk during the games.

In all seriousness though (even though he actually WAS drunk and high during those games), we have no idea what Gordon will be like.  Chances are he sucks this year, but could easily be all pro level again next year if he decides to stay clean.

 

[Hankmoody]

Well I'll make a serious post before the clown show arrives.  I don't think it's likely they both can because there are so many factors that all have to line up first.

First
Gordon is going to need a breaking-in period.  That might only be 1 game (he's only 26 and is a stud physical athlete), it might be much longer or never happen (two years is a long time to not be honing one's craft, especially at the most elite of levels).

Second
They need an answer at QB.  Even if it's Kizer (it's not), that's going to take until next year to determine.  Then the QB needs to fully develop and learn.  It will be a miracle for this offense to get big enough to support two fantasy WR2's let alone more.  It takes about 4500 yards passing to support a WR1 and a WR2 at the same time.

Third
Hard to believe I'm saying this but the other tools they have may dilute the pool.  Njoku and Duke could easily account for 1500 yards between them once the offense does ramp up.

Fourth
They need a coaching staff that's willing to let the offense grow.  Hue is an idiot so shouldn't even be in place, but even if he survives he's always been a dual-RB pounder and never supported a 2nd WR in CIN.  If they replace him they have to avoid a guy like CAR/JAX/BAL/NYJ who will drive to a "run the ball, play D, and kick FG's" mentality that a lot of teams run. 

 

[Flint Fireballs!]

Well I'll make a serious post before the clown show arrives.  I don't think it's likely they both can because there are so many factors that all have to line up first.

Appreciate it.  I think what you're saying makes sense.  I'm in a 14 team league that has a 6 team playoff field, and I may get a first round bye (depends if I can win my division this week, which I'll do with a win).  So as much as anything else, I'm hoping that Coleman can rise up in weeks 15 & 16.  If he does so, not only will he help me win, he'll position me to move him for something of value should I not like how the Browns offense is shaping up prior to the 2018 season. 

Also, I had forgotten about Njoku, who is talented enough to also demand attention.  He could conceivably push Coleman to the third receiver, who is left to fight for targets with Duke.  I really like Coleman, but I don't like his situation.  I feel like he could be a top 15-20 receiver as a player on about half the teams in the league.  But the Browns?  Ugh.  I like what Cleveland has done regarding the assembling of talent (other than immediately hating the Kizer pick, and thinking that they may have gotten lucky that their trade for AJ McCarron failed to go through).  They definitely need a legit QB who, if he's a rookie, will have to go through those growing pains you mentioned above in order to get to the point where he's good for 4,500 yards.

I have Coleman, Devante Parker, Martavis Bryant, Will Fuller, Paul Richardson and Kenny Golladay (not to make this about me), and I'm beginning to think that I'll have to shop Coleman should he get hot and get a bump in value.  Fuller, I think, will be very good with Watson.  And I like Golladay a lot, too.  If I conclude that they're going to be more serviceable than Coleman, I'll have to consider dangling Coleman, I guess.

If Gordon looks like a clear cut stud at any point this season, or next preseason, I may than consider offering Coleman as part of a package for him.

But enough about me and my team.  I appreciate your breakdown of the Browns.

 

[Bri]

Last time I watched the Browns it seemed like there were about 8 passes to the WRs. Has this improved? I noticed Coleman getting some work but otherwise haven't paid attention. Is there really much to share here?

 

[Hankmoody]

Last time I watched the Browns it seemed like there were about 8 passes to the WRs. Has this improved? I noticed Coleman getting some work but otherwise haven't paid attention. Is there really much to share here?

No, but it's hard telling if that's a WR talent issue, a QB recognition issue, or a Hue Jackson is an idiot issue.

 

[Ditka Butkus]

Gordon wont be on the team next year so I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[bb7278]

Coleman shouldnt be double-teamed anymore I really think he's going to do well with Gordon returning and be the better play the rest of the year between the 2 as Gordon rounds back into form.

 

[JohnnyU]

The Gordon thread will have nothing of it, but we first need to see if three years later, Gordon is anywhere near what he used to be. While he was unbelievable in 2013, he didn't exactly dominate in the five games he did play in 2014. 

Wasn't Gordon stinking up the joint (pun intended) before he was suspended?

 

[zamboni]

Wasn't Gordon stinking up the joint (pun intended) before he was suspended?

Small sample size, but yes, he didn't exactly light it up for the last five games of 2014.

Week 12: 8-120-0; 16 targets

Week 13: 7-75-0; 13 targets

Week 14: 2-15-0; 7 targets

Week 15: 3-48-0; 4 targets

Week 16: 4-45-0; 7 targets

So that's 5 games in the last 3 seasons - your guess is as bad as mine as to how he will do after such a long layoff.

 

[JohnnyU]

Small sample size, but yes, he didn't exactly light it up for the last five games of 2014.

Week 12: 8-120-0; 16 targets

Week 13: 7-75-0; 13 targets

Week 14: 2-15-0; 7 targets

Week 15: 3-48-0; 4 targets

Week 16: 4-45-0; 7 targets

So that's 5 games in the last 3 seasons - your guess is as bad as mine as to how he will do after such a long layoff.

The odds are not in hi favor.

 

[Stompin' Tom Connors]

Well I'll make a serious post before the clown show arrives.  I don't think it's likely they both can because there are so many factors that all have to line up first.

First
Gordon is going to need a breaking-in period.  That might only be 1 game (he's only 26 and is a stud physical athlete), it might be much longer or never happen (two years is a long time to not be honing one's craft, especially at the most elite of levels).

Second
They need an answer at QB.  Even if it's Kizer (it's not), that's going to take until next year to determine.  Then the QB needs to fully develop and learn.  It will be a miracle for this offense to get big enough to support two fantasy WR2's let alone more.  It takes about 4500 yards passing to support a WR1 and a WR2 at the same time.

Third
Hard to believe I'm saying this but the other tools they have may dilute the pool.  Njoku and Duke could easily account for 1500 yards between them once the offense does ramp up.

Fourth
They need a coaching staff that's willing to let the offense grow.  Hue is an idiot so shouldn't even be in place, but even if he survives he's always been a dual-RB pounder and never supported a 2nd WR in CIN.  If they replace him they have to avoid a guy like CAR/JAX/BAL/NYJ who will drive to a "run the ball, play D, and kick FG's" mentality that a lot of teams run. 

Really good post/thoughts.

On the bolded, I think it relies too on the second point about bringing in the right QB (whether through the draft or FA with a guy like Cousins/Bridgewater, though arguments will exist if these guys are the "right" guys).

Point being that having a supremely talented roster with multiple potential receiving threats across WRs, RBs, and TEs isn't so much a liability/dilution risk as it is opportunity if done right. See the Patriots.

 

[Saboo]

Not only can they co-exist they will make each other better..That said Gordon is the clear #1 here if he can get his life together.