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Can somebody explain in their own words (1 Viewer)

bostonfred

Footballguy
I know there's a lot of threads on Owens, but whenever the topic comes up, it seems that people inevitably parrot words like "team cancer", or "I loves me some me".

I remember that he talked poorly of Jeff Garcia. Well looking back, it turns out Owens was responsible for over 40% of Garcia's production, and when Owens left, Garcia fell apart but Owens kept on ticking. Maybe he was wrong to say it, but he was dead right.

And then, of course, there's the two controversial things Owens said about McNabb. The first was when Owens said he wasn't the one throwing up on the sidelines when they were struggling to get a play off in a two minute drill to win the Superbowl. Well, it may not have been the right way to say it, but when push came to shove, an injured Owens excelled in that Superbowl and a healthy McNabb was too out of shape to get it done. Maybe it's the kind of thing Owens should have said behind closed doors, to team management, or even had his agent say it to the team, but he was right.

The second was the most overblown interview of all times, where ESPN trumped up a massive amount of controversy around an ESPN interview where the interviewer asked Owens if he agreed with the comments of an ESPN analyst, who was a close friend of Owens. I know it's not the coolest thing for a teammate to say, but all Owens agreed with was that the Eagles would probably have a better record if their injured quarterback had been replaced with a guy on an underperforming team - a guy who happened to be one of the best quarterbacks ever to play the game, but whose #1 receiver was lost for the season early.

I understand that his behavior was disruptive. I understand that the Eagles had a laundry list of actions they asked him to stop, and he refused to comply while he was seeking a new contract. I understand that it may have been one of the worst thought out negotiating tactics he could have tried. I understand that he's tried to maneuver himself to a better situation in the past.

But on the other hand, I can also understand how he'd have thought that as an underpaid pro bowl player, showing up to play but refusing to talk to participate during the week is better than another player who just sits out. He helped his team win games on the field.

If you look at it from his perspective, I can certainly understand how he thought the Eagles owed him something after setting single season receiving records andgetting injured, and then risking his career to play in the Superbowl while bringing them to the edge against the Patriots.

And perhaps you remember the 2002 playoff game between the Giants and 49ers? The one where, to quote ESPN, "Owens caught TD passes of 76 and 26 yards, and inspired his teammates to victory with fiery speeches at halftime and in the fourth-quarter huddles -- a remarkable development for a Pro Bowl player who has few close friends on the team."

I know he doesn't fit the picture most of us have of the ideal teammate. I know he doesn't have the best social skills. But understand that this guy has gutted it out for his team, elevated the play of his teammates, and is probably one of the top ten players on offense in the NFL. And the teams he plays on win.

Can you explain in your own words what makes Owens so bad? I'm not looking for a list of offenses here, or a link to someone else's article. I'm looking for the behavior you think he will exhibit on the Cowboys that makes you think he's a bad signing.

 

JohnnyU

Footballguy
His actions are disruptive to team chemistry. It's that simple, and nothing else really needs to be said.

 

fatness

against the grain
Badmouthing teammates publicly.

Badmouthing team management publicly.

Refusing to talk to coaches.

Refusing to practice like others on the team.

Trying to force a trade by disrupting a team.

Those come to mind that he has done. I think he'll do some or all of them again.

If the Cowboys are winning AND he is getting enough passes and TD'S AND if the QB's performance every game meets his expections, I expect he'll be quiet. It's hard to picture all 3 of those lasting. It's hard to picture him doing anything other than what he has done before. Look at all the admirers he has who will stick up for him no matter what he does.

 

Demons

Footballguy
:fishing:

I think we have truly exhausted the varying and sundry ways in which he is a problem. Do a topic search.

 

bostonfred

Footballguy
He's a jerk.
His actions are disruptive to team chemistry. It's that simple, and nothing else really needs to be said.
He's a tool. A joke. But he can play football, so teams puts up with him.
:fishing:

I think we have truly exhausted the varying and sundry ways in which he is a problem. Do a topic search.
This is exactly what I'm talking about. I've heard plenty of people make these comments, but there's no substance behind them.
 

JohnnyU

Footballguy
:fishing:

I think we have truly exhausted the varying and sundry ways in which he is a problem. Do a topic search.
I think it would be cool if we had an Emoticon with a guy beating a dead horse.
 

Cannon Fodder

Footballguy
He's a jerk.
His actions are disruptive to team chemistry.  It's that simple, and nothing else really needs to be said.
He's a tool.  A joke.  But he can play football, so teams puts up with him.
:fishing:

I think we have truly exhausted the varying and sundry ways in which he is a problem.  Do a topic search.
This is exactly what I'm talking about. I've heard plenty of people make these comments, but there's no substance behind them.
Are you joking?
 

BlueOnion

Footballguy
T.O. is bar none the #1 wide receiver in the game right now; and he knows it. He has worked his butt off to be the #1 receiver in the league and I personally believe that is what motivates him; when it comes down to what is best for the team or best for T.O., T.O. always chooses T.O.. At some point this strain on an NFL team comes to a boil and everything blows up. One would expect T.O. to have some limit to his selfishness, but he has none. His selfishness is limitless; this is what has motived him to be the best wide receiver in the game and consequently what makes him the biggest cancer in the game.

FYI - T.O. is one of maybe 3 players in the NFL I would actually pay big money to watch play; he is that good at his craft.

 
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Cannon Fodder

Footballguy
Badmouthing teammates publicly.

Badmouthing team management publicly.

Refusing to talk to coaches.

Refusing to practice like others on the team.

Trying to force a trade by disrupting a team.

Those come to mind that he has done. I think he'll do some or all of them again.

If the Cowboys are winning AND he is getting enough passes and TD'S AND if the QB's performance every game meets his expections, I expect he'll be quiet. It's hard to picture all 3 of those lasting. It's hard to picture him doing anything other than what he has done before. Look at all the admirers he has who will stick up for him no matter what he does.
What do you have to say about this one?
 

bostonfred

Footballguy
Badmouthing teammates publicly.

Badmouthing team management publicly.

Refusing to talk to coaches.

Refusing to practice like others on the team.

Trying to force a trade by disrupting a team.

Those come to mind that he has done. I think he'll do some or all of them again.

If the Cowboys are winning AND he is getting enough passes and TD'S AND if the QB's performance every game meets his expections, I expect he'll be quiet. It's hard to picture all 3 of those lasting. It's hard to picture him doing anything other than what he has done before. Look at all the admirers he has who will stick up for him no matter what he does.
Badmouthing who? Garcia? He actually sucked. A thinly veiled comment about McNabb choking in the Superbowl? What makes you think this would happen with Bledsoe?Badmouthing team management why? Because they refused to negotiate his contract after he set records for the team in his first year? Are the cowboys going to do this?

Refusing to practice, or talk to coaches, why? Because he decided to play instead of holding out? If the Cowboys sign him to a fair market deal, why would that even come up again?

Trying to force a trade why? Because the team refused to pay him like the superstar talent that he is?

I guess you could be nervous that he'll criticize Bledsoe. But Bledsoe's been through a lot, and he's taken more public criticism from his current coach than anything Owens would dish out. He's made every QB he's played with better. McNabb had his career best yards, YPA, TDs, and wins with Owens. And when a scrub CFL guy became the top fantasy QB when he came to the NFL, it turns out it may have had something to do with playing with Owens.

But otherwise, what behavior do you think will repeat?

 

BigRed

Footballguy
His actions are disruptive to team chemistry. It's that simple, and nothing else really needs to be said.
But it will be, ad infinitum. Aint it great?? wahoo, GB another Owens thread, keep bumpin up folks! He's no Joe Louis, but he good! :applause:
 

Noahs Troopers

Footballguy
1. Called one QB a homosexual

2. Called one QB an Uncle Tom

3. Fought with Mooch publicly

4. Fought with Reed publicly

Prediction: Owens insults Bledsoe, fights with Parcells.

 

Carter_Can_Fly

Footballguy
Badmouthing teammates publicly.

Badmouthing team management publicly.

Refusing to talk to coaches.

Refusing to practice like others on the team.

Trying to force a trade by disrupting a team.

Those come to mind that he has done. I think he'll do some or all of them again.

If the Cowboys are winning AND he is getting enough passes and TD'S AND if the QB's performance every game meets his expections, I expect he'll be quiet. It's hard to picture all 3 of those lasting. It's hard to picture him doing anything other than what he has done before. Look at all the admirers he has who will stick up for him no matter what he does.
Badmouthing who? Garcia? He actually sucked. A thinly veiled comment about McNabb choking in the Superbowl? What makes you think this would happen with Bledsoe?Badmouthing team management why? Because they refused to negotiate his contract after he set records for the team in his first year? Are the cowboys going to do this?

Refusing to practice, or talk to coaches, why? Because he decided to play instead of holding out? If the Cowboys sign him to a fair market deal, why would that even come up again?

Trying to force a trade why? Because the team refused to pay him like the superstar talent that he is?

I guess you could be nervous that he'll criticize Bledsoe. But Bledsoe's been through a lot, and he's taken more public criticism from his current coach than anything Owens would dish out. He's made every QB he's played with better. McNabb had his career best yards, YPA, TDs, and wins with Owens. And when a scrub CFL guy became the top fantasy QB when he came to the NFL, it turns out it may have had something to do with playing with Owens.

But otherwise, what behavior do you think will repeat?
This is an extreme case of Devil's Advocate. You sound like a defense lawyer trying to get a lesser sentence for a repeat offender. It's not as if TO has only done this one time in his career it seems to be following him no matter where he goes. No one is arguing his ability; and he is definitely one of the top talents in the NFL, but it is clear to see that he is a head case that makes it very difficult to admire as a person. I do admire him as a player but as a person he stinks. You are sugar coating all of his problems. Thinly veiled comment about McNabb. Since when is talking to the media about a fellow player costing you the SB thinly veiled. He knew what he wanted to say and he said it. Regardless of if he was right or not that was no the rigth way to go about it.

Owens is that "type A" personality where he needs so much attention that if is a hindernece to his team. Being on 3 teams in the past 4 years while being the so called best player at your position is enough proof to me that he is a cancer that is extremely difficult to control. Don't get me wrong, I love watching him as a player but I take him for what he is. A great player with a terrible attitude.

 

LTDynasty

Footballguy
I know there's a lot of threads on Owens, but whenever the topic comes up, it seems that people inevitably parrot words like "team cancer", or "I loves me some me".

I remember that he talked poorly of Jeff Garcia. Well looking back, it turns out Owens was responsible for over 40% of Garcia's production, and when Owens left, Garcia fell apart but Owens kept on ticking. Maybe he was wrong to say it, but he was dead right.

And then, of course, there's the two controversial things Owens said about McNabb. The first was when Owens said he wasn't the one throwing up on the sidelines when they were struggling to get a play off in a two minute drill to win the Superbowl. Well, it may not have been the right way to say it, but when push came to shove, an injured Owens excelled in that Superbowl and a healthy McNabb was too out of shape to get it done. Maybe it's the kind of thing Owens should have said behind closed doors, to team management, or even had his agent say it to the team, but he was right.

The second was the most overblown interview of all times, where ESPN trumped up a massive amount of controversy around an ESPN interview where the interviewer asked Owens if he agreed with the comments of an ESPN analyst, who was a close friend of Owens. I know it's not the coolest thing for a teammate to say, but all Owens agreed with was that the Eagles would probably have a better record if their injured quarterback had been replaced with a guy on an underperforming team - a guy who happened to be one of the best quarterbacks ever to play the game, but whose #1 receiver was lost for the season early.

I understand that his behavior was disruptive. I understand that the Eagles had a laundry list of actions they asked him to stop, and he refused to comply while he was seeking a new contract. I understand that it may have been one of the worst thought out negotiating tactics he could have tried. I understand that he's tried to maneuver himself to a better situation in the past.

But on the other hand, I can also understand how he'd have thought that as an underpaid pro bowl player, showing up to play but refusing to talk to participate during the week is better than another player who just sits out. He helped his team win games on the field.

If you look at it from his perspective, I can certainly understand how he thought the Eagles owed him something after setting single season receiving records andgetting injured, and then risking his career to play in the Superbowl while bringing them to the edge against the Patriots.

And perhaps you remember the 2002 playoff game between the Giants and 49ers? The one where, to quote ESPN, "Owens caught TD passes of 76 and 26 yards, and inspired his teammates to victory with fiery speeches at halftime and in the fourth-quarter huddles -- a remarkable development for a Pro Bowl player who has few close friends on the team."

I know he doesn't fit the picture most of us have of the ideal teammate. I know he doesn't have the best social skills. But understand that this guy has gutted it out for his team, elevated the play of his teammates, and is probably one of the top ten players on offense in the NFL. And the teams he plays on win.

Can you explain in your own words what makes Owens so bad? I'm not looking for a list of offenses here, or a link to someone else's article. I'm looking for the behavior you think he will exhibit on the Cowboys that makes you think he's a bad signing.
:goodposting: It seems to me TO is the tragic Greek hero who for all of his talent and potential at greatness is corrupted by selfishness and an inherent insecurity, which he feels he needs to overcome whether its through showboating on the Texas Star, weightlifting until he possesses the body of Adonis, putting up gaudy numbers, or being labeled and paid as the #1 WR in football. The TO that Steve Young and the 49ers knew is probably somewhere deep within Owens but is a guy that his friends and family may only see come out and that the media and the NFL will probably no longer see. Here's hoping that people really can mature and change. Sadly, it probably won't be long before TO is mindraped and exploited by the media for a story, something his personality often plays right into.

 

Slinger

Footballguy
A lot of people can't explain why the sky is blue, but it's universially known. Same goes with Terrell Owens being "so bad". If you don't get it by now, you never will.

 

glock

"Don't grumble, give a whistle!"
T.O. is the "baddest" WR talent in the game.

I've had Owens in my auction/keeper $ league for a few years now. Last years roster sucked eggs, and T.O. playing wouldn't have made a difference. So I "lucked out." Made some moves. Picked up LJ...Chester Taylor...and held onto T.O. for this year.

T.O. is gonna rock for the Cowboys. It's in the stars.

:thumbup:

 

Assani Fisher

Footballguy
Badmouthing teammates publicly.

Badmouthing team management publicly.

Refusing to talk to coaches.

Refusing to practice like others on the team.

Trying to force a trade by disrupting a team.

Those come to mind that he has done. I think he'll do some or all of them again.

If the Cowboys are winning AND he is getting enough passes and TD'S AND if the QB's performance every game meets his expections, I expect he'll be quiet. It's hard to picture all 3 of those lasting. It's hard to picture him doing anything other than what he has done before. Look at all the admirers he has who will stick up for him no matter what he does.
BF addressed and refuted nearly every one of those points in his first post. The 'badmouthing' teamates was simply the truthful answer to questions. Badmouthing management is usually what happens during a holdout. Refusing to talk to coaches is better than not showing up at all. How did he refuse to practice like others? YMIA.
 
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gman8343

What would Lemmy do?
Badmouthing teammates publicly.

Badmouthing team management publicly.

Refusing to talk to coaches.

Refusing to practice like others on the team.

Trying to force a trade by disrupting a team.

Those come to mind that he has done. I think he'll do some or all of them again.

If the Cowboys are winning AND he is getting enough passes and TD'S AND if the QB's performance every game meets his expections, I expect he'll be quiet. It's hard to picture all 3 of those lasting. It's hard to picture him doing anything other than what he has done before. Look at all the admirers he has who will stick up for him no matter what he does.
BF addressed and refuted nearly every one of those points in his first post. The 'badmouthing' teamates was simply the truthful answer to questions. Badmouthing management is usually what happens during a holdout. Refusing to talk to coaches is better than not showing up at all. How did he refuse to practice like others? YMIA.
So he was telling the truth when he said Jeff Garcia is gay?"Refusing to talk to coaches is better than not showing up at all." This is simply a ludicrous statement. Refusing to talk to coaches is also better than raping a nun, but it still makes you a horrible team guy.

I think he's the best WR around but as a human being the guy is selfish, egotistical and extremely difficult to coach.

 

coolnerd

Footballguy
T.O. is bar none the #1 wide receiver in the game right now; and he knows it. He has worked his butt off to be the #1 receiver in the league and I personally believe that is what motivates him; when it comes down to what is best for the team or best for T.O., T.O. always chooses T.O.. At some point this strain on an NFL team comes to a boil and everything blows up. One would expect T.O. to have some limit to his selfishness, but he has none. His selfishness is limitless; this is what has motived him to be the best wide receiver in the game and consequently what makes him the biggest cancer in the game.

FYI - T.O. is one of maybe 3 players in the NFL I would actually pay big money to watch play; he is that good at his craft.
This is best answer of the lot. TO is like the hot girl who knows she is hot. Everyone who dates this chick comes back talking about what a b*tch she is, but because she is hot, she always has someone willing to overlook or excuse the fact because she is hot.

TO is not a criminal or even immoral guy, but is the extreme example of what happens when there is no governer (internal or external) on an indivdual's ego.

 

bostonfred

Footballguy
Badmouthing teammates publicly.

Badmouthing team management publicly.

Refusing to talk to coaches.

Refusing to practice like others on the team.

Trying to force a trade by disrupting a team.

Those come to mind that he has done. I think he'll do some or all of them again.

If the Cowboys are winning AND he is getting enough passes and TD'S AND if the QB's performance every game meets his expections, I expect he'll be quiet. It's hard to picture all 3 of those lasting. It's hard to picture him doing anything other than what he has done before. Look at all the admirers he has who will stick up for him no matter what he does.
Badmouthing who? Garcia? He actually sucked. A thinly veiled comment about McNabb choking in the Superbowl? What makes you think this would happen with Bledsoe?Badmouthing team management why? Because they refused to negotiate his contract after he set records for the team in his first year? Are the cowboys going to do this?

Refusing to practice, or talk to coaches, why? Because he decided to play instead of holding out? If the Cowboys sign him to a fair market deal, why would that even come up again?

Trying to force a trade why? Because the team refused to pay him like the superstar talent that he is?

I guess you could be nervous that he'll criticize Bledsoe. But Bledsoe's been through a lot, and he's taken more public criticism from his current coach than anything Owens would dish out. He's made every QB he's played with better. McNabb had his career best yards, YPA, TDs, and wins with Owens. And when a scrub CFL guy became the top fantasy QB when he came to the NFL, it turns out it may have had something to do with playing with Owens.

But otherwise, what behavior do you think will repeat?
This is an extreme case of Devil's Advocate. You sound like a defense lawyer trying to get a lesser sentence for a repeat offender. It's not as if TO has only done this one time in his career it seems to be following him no matter where he goes. No one is arguing his ability; and he is definitely one of the top talents in the NFL, but it is clear to see that he is a head case that makes it very difficult to admire as a person. I do admire him as a player but as a person he stinks. You are sugar coating all of his problems. Thinly veiled comment about McNabb. Since when is talking to the media about a fellow player costing you the SB thinly veiled. He knew what he wanted to say and he said it. Regardless of if he was right or not that was no the rigth way to go about it.

Owens is that "type A" personality where he needs so much attention that if is a hindernece to his team. Being on 3 teams in the past 4 years while being the so called best player at your position is enough proof to me that he is a cancer that is extremely difficult to control. Don't get me wrong, I love watching him as a player but I take him for what he is. A great player with a terrible attitude.
I'm going to address the three bolded statements:1) Done what? Can you give examples of what he's done, and explain why you think it would happen again?

2) Why do you credit Owens with being media savvy when it makes him seem like a worse person? He said something stupid with a microphone in front of him. He's far from the first player to do that.

3) Why did he change teams? He wanted to play for a real QB (sorry Jeff, but you really aren't that good), and he wanted to get paid. The first team traded him at his request, and the second team refused to pay him. Is either one that shocking?

 

Assani Fisher

Footballguy
Badmouthing teammates publicly.

Badmouthing team management publicly.

Refusing to talk to coaches.

Refusing to practice like others on the team.

Trying to force a trade by disrupting a team.

Those come to mind that he has done. I think he'll do some or all of them again.

If the Cowboys are winning AND he is getting enough passes and TD'S AND if the QB's performance every game meets his expections, I expect he'll be quiet. It's hard to picture all 3 of those lasting. It's hard to picture him doing anything other than what he has done before. Look at all the admirers he has who will stick up for him no matter what he does.
BF addressed and refuted nearly every one of those points in his first post. The 'badmouthing' teamates was simply the truthful answer to questions. Badmouthing management is usually what happens during a holdout. Refusing to talk to coaches is better than not showing up at all. How did he refuse to practice like others? YMIA.
So he was telling the truth when he said Jeff Garcia is gay?"Refusing to talk to coaches is better than not showing up at all." This is simply a ludicrous statement. Refusing to talk to coaches is also better than raping a nun, but it still makes you a horrible team guy.

I think he's the best WR around but as a human being the guy is selfish, egotistical and extremely difficult to coach.
I'm not sure, but as a teamate he probably knew better than any of us.So I take it that you dislike everyone who has ever held out worse than Owens since you're admitting that action is worse than simply not talking?

 

bostonfred

Footballguy
Badmouthing teammates publicly.

Badmouthing team management publicly.

Refusing to talk to coaches.

Refusing to practice like others on the team.

Trying to force a trade by disrupting a team.

Those come to mind that he has done. I think he'll do some or all of them again.

If the Cowboys are winning AND he is getting enough passes and TD'S AND if the QB's performance every game meets his expections, I expect he'll be quiet. It's hard to picture all 3 of those lasting. It's hard to picture him doing anything other than what he has done before. Look at all the admirers he has who will stick up for him no matter what he does.
BF addressed and refuted nearly every one of those points in his first post. The 'badmouthing' teamates was simply the truthful answer to questions. Badmouthing management is usually what happens during a holdout. Refusing to talk to coaches is better than not showing up at all. How did he refuse to practice like others? YMIA.
So he was telling the truth when he said Jeff Garcia is gay?"Refusing to talk to coaches is better than not showing up at all." This is simply a ludicrous statement. Refusing to talk to coaches is also better than raping a nun, but it still makes you a horrible team guy.

I think he's the best WR around but as a human being the guy is selfish, egotistical and extremely difficult to coach.
The point is he didn't hold out on the Eagles (who told him not to). So he went to camp, but was upset. That's a bad negotiating tactic, but I wouldn't compare it to "raping a nun". And undeniably some of the blame goes on the Eagles for failing to realize that their best player wasn't happy and letting him become a bigger disruption than he had to be. I don't admire how Owens handle it, but I happen to think more of the blame goes on the Eagles, because they're supposed to be the grownups here.

 

bostonfred

Footballguy
1. Called one QB a homosexual

2. Called one QB an Uncle Tom

3. Fought with Mooch publicly

4. Fought with Reed publicly

Prediction: Owens insults Bledsoe, fights with Parcells.
I agree that Owens says things he shouldn't in front of a microphone. And I doubt he'll learn not to. Point to Noahs Troopers. Plenty of hall of fame players have argued with their coaches. And receivers are the worst. I'd like to see your list of players that you hate for arguing with their coaches, and hear your thoughts on some of the others.

 

gman8343

What would Lemmy do?
Badmouthing teammates publicly.

Badmouthing team management publicly.

Refusing to talk to coaches.

Refusing to practice like others on the team.

Trying to force a trade by disrupting a team.

Those come to mind that he has done. I think he'll do some or all of them again.

If the Cowboys are winning AND he is getting enough passes and TD'S AND if the QB's performance every game meets his expections, I expect he'll be quiet. It's hard to picture all 3 of those lasting. It's hard to picture him doing anything other than what he has done before. Look at all the admirers he has who will stick up for him no matter what he does.
BF addressed and refuted nearly every one of those points in his first post. The 'badmouthing' teamates was simply the truthful answer to questions. Badmouthing management is usually what happens during a holdout. Refusing to talk to coaches is better than not showing up at all. How did he refuse to practice like others? YMIA.
So he was telling the truth when he said Jeff Garcia is gay?"Refusing to talk to coaches is better than not showing up at all." This is simply a ludicrous statement. Refusing to talk to coaches is also better than raping a nun, but it still makes you a horrible team guy.

I think he's the best WR around but as a human being the guy is selfish, egotistical and extremely difficult to coach.
The point is he didn't hold out on the Eagles (who told him not to). So he went to camp, but was upset. That's a bad negotiating tactic, but I wouldn't compare it to "raping a nun". And undeniably some of the blame goes on the Eagles for failing to realize that their best player wasn't happy and letting him become a bigger disruption than he had to be. I don't admire how Owens handle it, but I happen to think more of the blame goes on the Eagles, because they're supposed to be the grownups here.
So he never told any coach on the Eagles not to speak to him unless spoken to first?And what about the Garcia comment - how's that for class?

 

bentley

Footballguy
Who cares as long as he catches a ton of balls? It's not like he's going to move in across the street and let his dog #### in my yard. I fail to see why anyone would want to keep away a productive player whatever his personality may be.

 

homebrumiester

Footballguy
Badmouthing teammates publicly.

Badmouthing team management publicly.

Refusing to talk to coaches.

Refusing to practice like others on the team.

Trying to force a trade by disrupting a team.

Those come to mind that he has done. I think he'll do some or all of them again.

If the Cowboys are winning AND he is getting enough passes and TD'S AND if the QB's performance every game meets his expections, I expect he'll be quiet. It's hard to picture all 3 of those lasting. It's hard to picture him doing anything other than what he has done before. Look at all the admirers he has who will stick up for him no matter what he does.
BF addressed and refuted nearly every one of those points in his first post. The 'badmouthing' teamates was simply the truthful answer to questions. Badmouthing management is usually what happens during a holdout. Refusing to talk to coaches is better than not showing up at all. How did he refuse to practice like others? YMIA.
So he was telling the truth when he said Jeff Garcia is gay?"Refusing to talk to coaches is better than not showing up at all." This is simply a ludicrous statement. Refusing to talk to coaches is also better than raping a nun, but it still makes you a horrible team guy.

I think he's the best WR around but as a human being the guy is selfish, egotistical and extremely difficult to coach.
The point is he didn't hold out on the Eagles (who told him not to). So he went to camp, but was upset. That's a bad negotiating tactic, but I wouldn't compare it to "raping a nun". And undeniably some of the blame goes on the Eagles for failing to realize that their best player wasn't happy and letting him become a bigger disruption than he had to be. I don't admire how Owens handle it, but I happen to think more of the blame goes on the Eagles, because they're supposed to be the grownups here.
This is one problem with you argument Fred. Owens is supposed to be a grownup also
 
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fatness

against the grain
But otherwise, what behavior do you think will repeat?
I think you'll tell us in 50 or 100 more posts why nothing Owens did is his fault, or is someone else's fault, or he didn't do it, or it's not really so bad, or he won't do it any more, or that other people should put up with it, or that it doesn't matter because he's talented, or that the dog ate his homework.
 

Deranged Hermit

Not cool & Pissed
This thread is as asanine as it gets. Owens has in his illustrious carreer:

1. Thrown two QB's under the bus for having the audacity to not throw to him 10 times a game. Than, when the don't respond, he calls one gay and the other a choker. This stuff is well documented.

2. He's thrown two different coaches under the bus for daring not to throw the ball to him every other play.

3. He went up to the Eagles WR coach and told him to 'Shut up and talk when he's spoken to".

4. He did little jackass manuvers to make sure the team knew he was unhappy. These went from little stuff like parking in handicapped spots in the facility to fighting with Hugh Douglas in the locker room when Hugh 'dared' to call his actions on the carpet.

5. He came right out and said that "they didn't want me on this team if I'm not happy". He lived up to his word.

6. His lousy attitude provided enough dissent to almost single handedly bring down a team that was in the championship game the year before.

I'm sick of even typing this stuff. When he's not happy, he makes sure others aren't as well. He's a piss poor team mate and even less a human being. I'm not even an Eagles or SF fan and this dude's antics make me sick. I'm glad he's going to the Cowboys, as there not a team that deserves his tired act more IMO. Hope he kills them like he killed SF and, possibly, Philly.

End rant.....

 

Just Win Baby

Footballguy
But understand that this guy has gutted it out for his team
Have to disagree here. I don't believe has ever done anything for his team. He has done everything for himself, which coincidentally has often helped his team. But don't confuse his motivation.I'm sure you'll rightly point out that he is no different from many other players in this regard. But he is more extreme than most, and he flaunts this attitude. Sooner or later doesn't sit well with the management of his team, some of his teammates, the media, or a lot of fans.
I'm looking for the behavior you think he will exhibit on the Cowboys that makes you think he's a bad signing.
I don't like TO, but I don't think it is a bad signing. It is a calculated risk that could pay off big with a Super Bowl win. But if they don't go on to win a Super Bowl with him, it will likely turn out that it wasn't worth it.I think Bledsoe is a stronger leader than McNabb, and, as much as I respect Reid, I think Parcells is a stronger head coach, particularly in his ability to deal with players. Those things, along with a possibility that TO will try to be on good behavior for as long as he can stand it, leads me to believe things will probably go well in year one, if the Cowboys are winning.If they aren't winning, I expect some trouble this year. Keep in mind that reporters will be swarming TO constantly, now that he has confirmed his status as an easy target for stirring up controversy.Regardless, I expect trouble after the first year, when TO's signing bonus is presumably forgotten (by him) and he is looking at only two years remaining on his contract, which will no doubt be "underpaying" him at that point.And whenever Bledsoe and/or Parcells retire, it is likely TO's behavior will get worse, since I don't see Dallas easily bringing in veteran leaders like them to control him.
 

Chaos Commish

Footballguy
This thread is as asanine as it gets. Owens has in his illustrious carreer:

1. Thrown two QB's under the bus for having the audacity to not throw to him 10 times a game. Than, when the don't respond, he calls one gay and the other a choker. This stuff is well documented.

2. He's thrown two different coaches under the bus for daring not to throw the ball to him every other play.

3. He went up to the Eagles WR coach and told him to 'Shut up and talk when he's spoken to".

4. He did little jackass manuvers to make sure the team knew he was unhappy. These went from little stuff like parking in handicapped spots in the facility to fighting with Hugh Douglas in the locker room when Hugh 'dared' to call his actions on the carpet.

5. He came right out and said that "they didn't want me on this team if I'm not happy". He lived up to his word.

6. His lousy attitude provided enough dissent to almost single handedly bring down a team that was in the championship game the year before.

I'm sick of even typing this stuff. When he's not happy, he makes sure others aren't as well. He's a piss poor team mate and even less a human being. I'm not even an Eagles or SF fan and this dude's antics make me sick. I'm glad he's going to the Cowboys, as there not a team that deserves his tired act more IMO. Hope he kills them like he killed SF and, possibly, Philly.

End rant.....
:goodposting: As a Cowboy fan it hurts to read the truth. I suspect fred and the other apologists don't understand several key dynamics of team sports.

 

bostonfred

Footballguy
Badmouthing teammates publicly.

Badmouthing team management publicly.

Refusing to talk to coaches.

Refusing to practice like others on the team.

Trying to force a trade by disrupting a team.

Those come to mind that he has done. I think he'll do some or all of them again.

If the Cowboys are winning AND he is getting enough passes and TD'S AND if the QB's performance every game meets his expections, I expect he'll be quiet. It's hard to picture all 3 of those lasting. It's hard to picture him doing anything other than what he has done before. Look at all the admirers he has who will stick up for him no matter what he does.
BF addressed and refuted nearly every one of those points in his first post. The 'badmouthing' teamates was simply the truthful answer to questions. Badmouthing management is usually what happens during a holdout. Refusing to talk to coaches is better than not showing up at all. How did he refuse to practice like others? YMIA.
So he was telling the truth when he said Jeff Garcia is gay?"Refusing to talk to coaches is better than not showing up at all." This is simply a ludicrous statement. Refusing to talk to coaches is also better than raping a nun, but it still makes you a horrible team guy.

I think he's the best WR around but as a human being the guy is selfish, egotistical and extremely difficult to coach.
The point is he didn't hold out on the Eagles (who told him not to). So he went to camp, but was upset. That's a bad negotiating tactic, but I wouldn't compare it to "raping a nun". And undeniably some of the blame goes on the Eagles for failing to realize that their best player wasn't happy and letting him become a bigger disruption than he had to be. I don't admire how Owens handle it, but I happen to think more of the blame goes on the Eagles, because they're supposed to be the grownups here.
So he never told any coach on the Eagles not to speak to him unless spoken to first?And what about the Garcia comment - how's that for class?
Yes, he did tell his coach not to speak to him while he was at practice. He attended practices, he put forth effort, and he played well on game day. He didn't hold out, he had some kind of ill-conceived plan to irritate them into giving him a raise instead. I freely admit he handled that poorly. The same goes for his comments about Garcia - I don't think he should have said anything like that to the media. I wouldn't be surprised if plenty of people said the exact same things in the locker room, or behind closed doors though. I don't think he has a filter the way many other athletes do where he stops himself from saying stupid things to the media.

So is your problem with Owens that he has poor social skills and doesn't negotiate well?

 

jazz12pg

Young MC Fan
:fishing:

I think we have truly exhausted the varying and sundry ways in which he is a problem.  Do a topic search.
I think it would be cool if we had an Emoticon with a guy beating a dead horse.
I think asking for that emoticon is the epitome of it, at this point.
 

bostonfred

Footballguy
I'm sure you'll rightly point out that he is no different from many other players in this regard. But he is more extreme than most, and he flaunts this attitude. Sooner or later doesn't sit well with the management of his team, some of his teammates, the media, or a lot of fans.
That's an interesting point. It sounds like you agree that a lot of other players exhibit the same kind of behavior, but you're saying Owens has exhibited it to a different degree. I'd say that we've heard it reported much more so than with other players, but I think there's a lot more prima donna players out there than just Owens, just like there's a lot more sex cruises out there that don't have Vikings on them. There's certainly more attention on Owens' actions than other players.

And if he's "flaunted his attitude", it may just because he's handled the situations he's been in poorly - he wanted to leave Garcia, and ended up getting traded to the team with Boller. When he found out he could work with McNabb, of course he tried to. Similarly, when he thought he was going to get a chance to renegotiate, especially after risking his career for the Eagles, and they refused, well, I can understand why he was upset. Especially with Rosenhaus whispering in his ear about how underpaid he was.

But Dillon was known as a malcontent who flaunted his negative attitude with the Bengals, too. Then he was a model citizen for the Patriots and helped them win the Superbowl. It turns out he was in a bad situation.

I've seen plenty of people who were miserable to work with because they were miserable in their jobs. That's not an indictment of the person, it's a case of them needing to move into a situation that fits them better. Unfortunately for Owens, he's in a job where there'll always be a camera and a microphone in front of him, and he's not good at filtering his thoughts for the audience at home. That doesn't make him a bad person, or likely to rip the team apart, it just means you need to do a better job coaching him on how to talk to the media. And if anyone knows how to do that, I think it's Parcells.

 

goonsquad

Think different.
I'm sick of even typing this stuff. When he's not happy, he makes sure others aren't as well. He's a piss poor team mate and even less a human being. I'm not even an Eagles or SF fan and this dude's antics make me sick. I'm glad he's going to the Cowboys, as there not a team that deserves his tired act more IMO. Hope he kills them like he killed SF and, possibly, Philly.

End rant.....
Methinks you're being a tad melodramatic here. :rolleyes:
 

bostonfred

Footballguy
I suspect fred and the other apologists don't understand several key dynamics of team sports.
I freely admit it would suck to have my WR call out my QB on national TV. I also freely admit it would suck to have my QB be too out of shape to run a two minute drill in the Superbowl. If I had to choose between the two, I'd choose the WR who speaks up. I guess I don't understand team sports though.

 

LTDynasty

Footballguy
I suspect fred and the other apologists don't understand several key dynamics of team sports.
I freely admit it would suck to have my WR call out my QB on national TV. I also freely admit it would suck to have my QB be too out of shape to run a two minute drill in the Superbowl. If I had to choose between the two, I'd choose the WR who speaks up. I guess I don't understand team sports though.
:goodposting:

 

bostonfred

Footballguy
This thread is as asanine as it gets. Owens has in his illustrious carreer:

1. Thrown two QB's under the bus for having the audacity to not throw to him 10 times a game. Than, when the don't respond, he calls one gay and the other a choker. This stuff is well documented.
You're making things up. Show me one source that implies Owens made comments about his QB because they didn't throw to him ten times a game.
2. He's thrown two different coaches under the bus for daring not to throw the ball to him every other play.
Again, this is patently untrue. If Owens is as bad as you say, you should be able to make true statements about him.
3. He went up to the Eagles WR coach and told him to 'Shut up and talk when he's spoken to".

4. He did little jackass manuvers to make sure the team knew he was unhappy. These went from little stuff like parking in handicapped spots in the facility to
I've covered this in several responses.
fighting with Hugh Douglas in the locker room when Hugh 'dared' to call his actions on the carpet.
That's a pretty liberal description of what happened. Hugh Douglas walked into the training room and accused Owens of faking an injury.
5. He came right out and said that "they didn't want me on this team if I'm not happy". He lived up to his word.
I don't have any idea what this quote means. It seems to be in the past tense, but then how do you live up to your word about something you said in the past? I think you may be making up quotes again.
6. His lousy attitude provided enough dissent to almost single handedly bring down a team that was in the championship game the year before.
That's not true, either. The quarterback was hurt, and the team suspended their best receiver. They were 4-3 when it was just the quarterback being hurt. They were 2-7 once they suspended their best receiver, too.
 

bostonfred

Footballguy
I don't admire how Owens handle it, but I happen to think more of the blame goes on the Eagles, because they're supposed to be the grownups here.
This is one problem with you argument Fred. Owens is supposed to be a grownup also
I freely admitted that I didn't admire how Owens handled it. But the player's job is to play. Management's job is to manage the rest of the stuff.The player played exceptionally well. The rest of the stuff was the problem. It sounds like a failure of management, not the player.

 

chedha

Footballguy
The guy is not a team player, but has exceptional football skills. So there will always be a team willing to hire him. That's all there is to it...

 

homebrumiester

Footballguy
I don't admire how Owens handle it, but I happen to think more of the blame goes on the Eagles, because they're supposed to be the grownups here.
This is one problem with you argument Fred. Owens is supposed to be a grownup also
I freely admitted that I didn't admire how Owens handled it. But the player's job is to play. Management's job is to manage the rest of the stuff.The player played exceptionally well. The rest of the stuff was the problem. It sounds like a failure of management, not the player.
No one has said that he can not perform as a player at a very high ability in fact I think most would agree or have even said that he is one of the best if not the best WR in the game.The problem I have with him is as a person and teammate not just as a player. He is almost sycophantic in his attitude and outlook. No remorse, no accoutablity for his actions. It is always not his fault in his eyes.

 

JAA

Footballguy
I learned a lot about Owens reading his book "Catch This". TO has social and personal issues that are sure problems in mainstream society today. However, that shouldnt mean he isnt allowed to play football or to be paid handsomely to play a game he is argueably one of the best ever at.

 

JAA

Footballguy
His actions are disruptive to team chemistry on the field cause teams to win games. It's that simple, and nothing else really needs to be said.
fixedFunny thing is TO does hurt lockerroom chemistry. Even funnier is that when is a team cancer, the team still wins.

 

drummer

Footballguy
:fishing:

I think we have truly exhausted the varying and sundry ways in which he is a problem. Do a topic search.
I think it would be cool if we had an Emoticon with a guy beating a dead horse.
dead%20horse.jpg
bostonfred can round and round splitting the TO hairs , but so far 2 teams have figured he isn't worth the trouble .

It sin't that the teams that let him go can't manage players . The Eagles managed to get to the NFC Championship before TO got there , and managed to get to the Super Bowl after TO got hurt .

But , if one still isn't convinced TO's attitude isn't or wasn't a problem , wait until his contract is revealed . Rumor is that there is some behavior clauses within the contract .

There is your good management of TO right there .

TO is gonna be under the Dallas media microscope , as well as the National media's as well . We probably will see those points of contention , which bostonfred seems to deem irrelevant , these next few weeks . No doubt TO's well documented antics will be hammered into the football loving public until the the kickoff of the regular season .

BTW , I'm a Niner fan since 1977 , and seen enough of TO ( if it wasn't for a missed call from an official during " The Catch II " game against Green Bay , TO would have been the goat instead of a hero , because he dropped passes that were right on his hands , with nobody around him ) to not miss his drama .

 

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