Can they fire Childress now....... (1 Viewer)

[North]

How good can a coach be when he has ZERO at the QB position? Get a QB and I bet he's a better coach next year!

Star-Tribune

Mark Wilf: Childress will be back in 2009

"Absolutely," the Vikings president replied when asked if the team planned to bring back the coach and his staff for a fourth season after the playoff loss.

By SID HARTMAN, Star Tribune

Last update: January 4, 2009 - 11:36 PM

The Vikings' 2008 season ended Sunday when they lost in the first round of the playoffs 26-14 to the Eagles, a better football team. Some fans might be unhappy with the way the season ended, but Mark Wilf, co-owner and president of the Vikings, made it clear after the game that there will be no changes regarding coach Brad Childress.

"We have a great team, we have a lot to be proud of this year and there's something to build on for next year," Wilf said. "But it's obviously very disappointing, and we'll move on."

Asked whether Childress and his staff will be back, Wilf, the younger brother of owner and chairman Zygi Wilf, replied, "Absolutely."

Mark Wilf made it clear that as owners of the team, he and his family will continue to add any players that the football department believes are needed to improve the roster.

"Absolutely, we're going to build from this and move forward," he said.

Well, the Vikings made it into the playoffs for the first time in four years, but in the end they still fell short of the Super Bowl, making it 32 years since they last appeared in the NFL's biggest game.

"That's our goal," Wilf said of the Super Bowl. "It always has been, and we made a step this year."

To show you how bad the play calling is lets take a look at November 23rd with Minn. up 23 to 10 and a chance to put the game away at the end of the 3rd quarter.1st and goal from the 1. What would you do with the best running back in football on your team? Any other right minded coach would run Peterson or Taylor 4 straight times.

What does Childress do? Calls a play action resulting in Frerotte getting sacked for a 10 yard loss, then on 3rd down Frerotte gets a delay of game call putting them in a position where they have to settle for a field goal. It didn't hurt them in this instance but his poor play calling is evident every week. Head coaches aren't supposed to out smart themselves, they're supposed to do what they need to win games. The Vikes won this year dispite Childress, not because of him

Childress is just a lifeless coach who won't do anything for the Vikes. Even the commentators were making fun of his post game speech saying that he shows no emotion.

No offense, but that's ridiculous criticism. You're saying you can't call a play action pass on 1st and goal from the 1 when everyone's thinking run? Come on.

I'm not saying you cant call play action pass, I'm just giving another example of his decision making and how it comes back to haunt you. Anyone else runs 4 times for the TD, it's the low risk call. Too many things can happen when you call PAP. Behind that O line and with the best RB in the league, you run it. You dont put the ball in Frerottes hands. After all, other than him knocking himself out of a football game in a TD celebration, what has he ever done? It's just another example of questionable play calling.

 

[Liquid Tension]

I don't see why people think Frerotte was better than Jackson. In what way? Frerotte is way too turnover prone for this Vikings team.

I'm apparently alone in thinking the Tarvaris Jackson experiment shouldn't be closed. I'm looking at an athletic, 25 year old QB who played for a small college program, and has improved by leaps and bounds each year. I know he played some bad teams, and his stats are misleading, but 9 TD and 2 INT are not bad. He also held his own against a tough Eagles D. He had the killer pick but he wasn't getting a lot of help yesterday.

If he's a 30 year old QB doing this, get rid of him. But considering how young he is and how much progress he's made, I think Minny would be wrong to get rid of him. I think he can be developed.

I think you are mistaken on Tarvaris improving "by leaps and bounds." It just isn't the case. He was so lost at the beginning of this, his third season, he was righfully benched by his biggest proponent (Childress). Yes, he had nice games vs. Arizona and Atlanta late in the season, but he looked just as lost against the Giants and Philly as he's ever looked. Sure, those are great defenses, but locking in on one receiver and just throwing the football up for grabs makes a QB not long for thius game. The thought of clinging to the hope of his development even for another year, while potentially wasting another otherwise talented team, makes me want to puke in my mouth. I wish the best for TJax and will root for him to succeed somewhere else. I just think it's preposterous to expect a fanbase to allow a QB guy 4 years to develop. Not in this league.

So many great QBs looked average or worse after three years, and that's talking mostly first round guys.

I'd like to know which great QBs you are referring to.

Archie Manning, John Elway, Eli Manning, Terry Bradshaw, Drew Bledsoe, Phil Simms and Vinny Testaverde all struggled a bit through their first three years. Those guys played a lot more than Jackson, and had more passing yards, but they didn't play particular well and were below average QBs (for their careers) after three seasons. Trent Dilfer turned his career around after an awful start. Steve Bartkowski did an even better job. Steve McNair wasn'y anything as a passer after three seasons.Non-first rounders? Dan Fouts was lost after three seasons and a 5-20-1 record, along with 16 TDs and 36 INTs. Steve Young looked terrible three years after Tampa drafted him -- a 3-16 record and an 11-21 ratio. Drew Brees? 10-17 record, 29-31 ratio.

Jackson has thrown just 524 passes in the NFL. That's a really, really small amount. His QB rating has jumped from 62.5 to 70.8 to 95.4. His ANY/A jumped from 4.1 to 4.4 to 5.9. He threw just two interceptions in 149 passes. He's just twenty-five years old. No, he's not going to become Fran Tarkenton. He wasn't to blame for the Colts loss, and he shouldn't have been benched for most of the season, IMO. We need to see more out of him. We know he's athletic, but maybe he can become a very good QB. And it's not like he's been blessed with some great WRs or a great offensive coordinator. He's got a great defense and a great RB, but despite what commentators tell you, that's not what helps a QB.

This isn't a nobody with no potential. I think if Minnesota gets another receiver and does a good job developing him, there's no reason why he can't be the Minnesota QB for a bunch of years. You've already invested three years in this guy -- now is when the payoff should begin.

Chase is backing up his point far better than the others going against him

 

[SayWhat?]

I'm just not sure, after watching Jackson attempt to QB this team off and on for three years, anyone can comfortably claim that he's got a legit chance to develop into a QB that's going to lead a team anywhere. Reference all the historical QB's you wish and their records and stats, but there's simply something missing with Jackson.

Between locking onto his receivers, the jump passes when he doesn't know what else to do, his deer-in-headlights look, mush-mouth verbal skills and overall quarterbacking incompetence, I just don't think there's been anything he's done that you can hang your hat on to say "hey, we may have our future leader here." Sure, he scorched a Cardinals team that allowed the most passing TD's in the league by a HUGE margin, big whoop. As bad as Frerotte was the last half of the season, this team's chances of doing anything against any semi-competent defense in the playoffs vanished when Jackson was inserted back into the lineup. And that's not a complement for Gus either.

Sadly, I simply don't see any way it's ever going to happen for Jackson.

 

[BigJim®]

I don't see why people think Frerotte was better than Jackson. In what way? Frerotte is way too turnover prone for this Vikings team.

I'm apparently alone in thinking the Tarvaris Jackson experiment shouldn't be closed. I'm looking at an athletic, 25 year old QB who played for a small college program, and has improved by leaps and bounds each year. I know he played some bad teams, and his stats are misleading, but 9 TD and 2 INT are not bad. He also held his own against a tough Eagles D. He had the killer pick but he wasn't getting a lot of help yesterday.

If he's a 30 year old QB doing this, get rid of him. But considering how young he is and how much progress he's made, I think Minny would be wrong to get rid of him. I think he can be developed.

I think you are mistaken on Tarvaris improving "by leaps and bounds." It just isn't the case. He was so lost at the beginning of this, his third season, he was righfully benched by his biggest proponent (Childress). Yes, he had nice games vs. Arizona and Atlanta late in the season, but he looked just as lost against the Giants and Philly as he's ever looked. Sure, those are great defenses, but locking in on one receiver and just throwing the football up for grabs makes a QB not long for thius game. The thought of clinging to the hope of his development even for another year, while potentially wasting another otherwise talented team, makes me want to puke in my mouth. I wish the best for TJax and will root for him to succeed somewhere else. I just think it's preposterous to expect a fanbase to allow a QB guy 4 years to develop. Not in this league.

So many great QBs looked average or worse after three years, and that's talking mostly first round guys.

I'd like to know which great QBs you are referring to.

Archie Manning, John Elway, Eli Manning, Terry Bradshaw, Drew Bledsoe, Phil Simms and Vinny Testaverde all struggled a bit through their first three years. Those guys played a lot more than Jackson, and had more passing yards, but they didn't play particular well and were below average QBs (for their careers) after three seasons. Trent Dilfer turned his career around after an awful start. Steve Bartkowski did an even better job. Steve McNair wasn'y anything as a passer after three seasons.Non-first rounders? Dan Fouts was lost after three seasons and a 5-20-1 record, along with 16 TDs and 36 INTs. Steve Young looked terrible three years after Tampa drafted him -- a 3-16 record and an 11-21 ratio. Drew Brees? 10-17 record, 29-31 ratio.

Jackson has thrown just 524 passes in the NFL. That's a really, really small amount. His QB rating has jumped from 62.5 to 70.8 to 95.4. His ANY/A jumped from 4.1 to 4.4 to 5.9. He threw just two interceptions in 149 passes. He's just twenty-five years old. No, he's not going to become Fran Tarkenton. He wasn't to blame for the Colts loss, and he shouldn't have been benched for most of the season, IMO. We need to see more out of him. We know he's athletic, but maybe he can become a very good QB. And it's not like he's been blessed with some great WRs or a great offensive coordinator. He's got a great defense and a great RB, but despite what commentators tell you, that's not what helps a QB.

This isn't a nobody with no potential. I think if Minnesota gets another receiver and does a good job developing him, there's no reason why he can't be the Minnesota QB for a bunch of years. You've already invested three years in this guy -- now is when the payoff should begin.

Chase is backing up his point far better than the others going against him

Really? Call me unswayed. Chase began by acknowledging a very low number of thrown passes. That's accurate as TJ got injured in 2007 and benched due to poor play in 2008. I'd say that counts against Tarvaris, not for him. ETA: I think it's also reflective of the fact the offensive coaching staff doesn't trust calling passing plays. It looks like his attempts per game have been merely 20.2 (2006), 24.5 (2007) and 21.3 (2008). Those are ridiculously low attempt numbers for a starting QB.

The QB rating for Tarvaris is the best argument for putting that statistic out to pasture. TJ had a 143.8 QB rating against the lions, where he was a mere 8/10 for 105 yards. In the next game against Arizona, he had a 135.5 QB rating going 11/17 for 163 yards... but 4 of those 11 completions were for TDs. I'm not arguing he should apologize for the numbers exagerrating what he's done on the field, but in fact that's the case.

The INT numbers are good, but they are mainly driven from TJ being timid and afraid to make mistakes. He'd rather throw an uncatchable ball than one that might be picked off. He gets some credit for that, but frankly I think he's thrown way too many uncatchable balls. Let's look at his TD totals over this period. Any QB can throw low INTs when he's handing the ball off 35 times a game.

I'll claim stupid on ANY/A. Whatever that number is, it can't hide that TJ looks lost out there, a lot.

Bottom line for me is in 3 seasons he has not shown me he can be a QB who leads this team to wins passing the ball when the run isn't there. Sure, here and there when teams are loading the box to stop the run he'll have a nice completion % on 8 yard passes. However, he'll never be that 250 yard/game QB who has an upside of throwing for 400 yards. That's the prototypical QB fans want, and a team needs. An above average QB would transform this offense from middle of the road to juggernaut.

 

[Liquid Tension]

I don't see why people think Frerotte was better than Jackson. In what way? Frerotte is way too turnover prone for this Vikings team.

I'm apparently alone in thinking the Tarvaris Jackson experiment shouldn't be closed. I'm looking at an athletic, 25 year old QB who played for a small college program, and has improved by leaps and bounds each year. I know he played some bad teams, and his stats are misleading, but 9 TD and 2 INT are not bad. He also held his own against a tough Eagles D. He had the killer pick but he wasn't getting a lot of help yesterday.

If he's a 30 year old QB doing this, get rid of him. But considering how young he is and how much progress he's made, I think Minny would be wrong to get rid of him. I think he can be developed.

I think you are mistaken on Tarvaris improving "by leaps and bounds." It just isn't the case. He was so lost at the beginning of this, his third season, he was righfully benched by his biggest proponent (Childress). Yes, he had nice games vs. Arizona and Atlanta late in the season, but he looked just as lost against the Giants and Philly as he's ever looked. Sure, those are great defenses, but locking in on one receiver and just throwing the football up for grabs makes a QB not long for thius game. The thought of clinging to the hope of his development even for another year, while potentially wasting another otherwise talented team, makes me want to puke in my mouth. I wish the best for TJax and will root for him to succeed somewhere else. I just think it's preposterous to expect a fanbase to allow a QB guy 4 years to develop. Not in this league.

So many great QBs looked average or worse after three years, and that's talking mostly first round guys.

I'd like to know which great QBs you are referring to.

Archie Manning, John Elway, Eli Manning, Terry Bradshaw, Drew Bledsoe, Phil Simms and Vinny Testaverde all struggled a bit through their first three years. Those guys played a lot more than Jackson, and had more passing yards, but they didn't play particular well and were below average QBs (for their careers) after three seasons. Trent Dilfer turned his career around after an awful start. Steve Bartkowski did an even better job. Steve McNair wasn'y anything as a passer after three seasons.Non-first rounders? Dan Fouts was lost after three seasons and a 5-20-1 record, along with 16 TDs and 36 INTs. Steve Young looked terrible three years after Tampa drafted him -- a 3-16 record and an 11-21 ratio. Drew Brees? 10-17 record, 29-31 ratio.

Jackson has thrown just 524 passes in the NFL. That's a really, really small amount. His QB rating has jumped from 62.5 to 70.8 to 95.4. His ANY/A jumped from 4.1 to 4.4 to 5.9. He threw just two interceptions in 149 passes. He's just twenty-five years old. No, he's not going to become Fran Tarkenton. He wasn't to blame for the Colts loss, and he shouldn't have been benched for most of the season, IMO. We need to see more out of him. We know he's athletic, but maybe he can become a very good QB. And it's not like he's been blessed with some great WRs or a great offensive coordinator. He's got a great defense and a great RB, but despite what commentators tell you, that's not what helps a QB.

This isn't a nobody with no potential. I think if Minnesota gets another receiver and does a good job developing him, there's no reason why he can't be the Minnesota QB for a bunch of years. You've already invested three years in this guy -- now is when the payoff should begin.

Chase is backing up his point far better than the others going against him

Really? Call me unswayed. Chase began by acknowledging a very low number of thrown passes. That's accurate as TJ got injured in 2007 and benched due to poor play in 2008. I'd say that counts against Tarvaris, not for him. ETA: I think it's also reflective of the fact the offensive coaching staff doesn't trust calling passing plays. It looks like his attempts per game have been merely 20.2 (2006), 24.5 (2007) and 21.3 (2008). Those are ridiculously low attempt numbers for a starting QB.

The QB rating for Tarvaris is the best argument for putting that statistic out to pasture. TJ had a 143.8 QB rating against the lions, where he was a mere 8/10 for 105 yards. In the next game against Arizona, he had a 135.5 QB rating going 11/17 for 163 yards... but 4 of those 11 completions were for TDs. I'm not arguing he should apologize for the numbers exagerrating what he's done on the field, but in fact that's the case.

The INT numbers are good, but they are mainly driven from TJ being timid and afraid to make mistakes. He'd rather throw an uncatchable ball than one that might be picked off. He gets some credit for that, but frankly I think he's thrown way too many uncatchable balls. Let's look at his TD totals over this period. Any QB can throw low INTs when he's handing the ball off 35 times a game.

I'll claim stupid on ANY/A. Whatever that number is, it can't hide that TJ looks lost out there, a lot.

Bottom line for me is in 3 seasons he has not shown me he can be a QB who leads this team to wins passing the ball when the run isn't there. Sure, here and there when teams are loading the box to stop the run he'll have a nice completion % on 8 yard passes. However, he'll never be that 250 yard/game QB who has an upside of throwing for 400 yards. That's the prototypical QB fans want, and a team needs. An above average QB would transform this offense from middle of the road to juggernaut.

It is OK to not be swayed, but the point Chase was making (and by the way I am not a fan of Tarvaris as I don't think he is a good passer now) is that many very good QB's, like you are wanting, started out very poor for their early careers. Ask Giant fans about the many comments made by most that "you will never win a SB with Phil Simms as QB." he was not playing well and then kept getting injured and then, the light went on.TJ can scramble and he has an excellent arm and good release. Not throwing int's is a big plus, but he needs to be able to read defenses better, not lock into his receiver and improve his accuracy.

As for QB rating not being a very good indication, I would agree, but usually a scrambler does not see his value in the QB rating.

I don't see much to sway me toward the non chase side beside "he has not shown me he can be a QB who leads this team to wins passing the ball when the run isn't there" and that is opinion (which is OK)

I am not behind the scenes and I am not able to know whether the light bulb is shining brighter after each game, but Chase shows a lot of good QB's who started poor and Tarvaris' QB rating has gone up each year (even if teh stat is flawed).

 

[Chase Stuart]

It's not just Jackson's QBR which has gone up every year that's important, because QBR stinks and is flawed. I use ANY/A for real analysis, and QBR when it shows similar results so I don't have to explain why I'm using ANY/A.

Completion percentage

Yards per attempt

Yards per completion

Touchdown percenage

Interception rate (absence of)

Jackson has improved each year of his career in each of those five categories.

 

[encaitar]

I have to agree with Chase about TJack. He has improved by leaps and bounds in the past year and with a competent Offensive Coordinator and Head Coach, he could turn into a very good QB in this league. I say that despite being one of Jackson's biggest detractors the past few years. Say what you want about the Giants' and Eagles' games, but there was tremendous pressure in both of those games that would've made life difficult for even the best of QBs.

That is why I still feel Childress is all wrong for this team. Philly was blitzing on every play, yet you never run a double slant? Only two screen plays all game(one of which was a huge gainer to Kleinsasser)? Only a couple of play action passes while Peterson is in the game? I mean seriously, it's the playoffs. You have to expect a guy like Jim Johnson is gonna bring pressure on your young QB. You have to know that ADP isn't gonna find many holes against the constant run blitzes when he's in the backfield. Get a little creative. A few screen passes, or roll outs would really slow down those blitzes. Plus, convince TJack to take off when that happens. They've been trying to make him into a pocket passer so much that he's reluctant to run, even though that's one of his best features.

I mean, when I saw them run that third down screen to Kleinsasser, I thought that maybe Chili had saved his best plays for late in the game. That was a great play call. Then you have 1st and 5 from the 50 and you run twice straight up the gut where Philly has been selling out all day long? And then throw deep on third down again? It's just maddening. There is no other way to put it. Defend him all you want, but as a fan who's watched every game he's coached for the Vikings, I know that he just doesn't have what it takes to be a super bowl winning coach and to me that's all that matters.

 

[BigJim®]

I have to agree with Chase about TJack. He has improved by leaps and bounds in the past year and with a competent Offensive Coordinator and Head Coach, he could turn into a very good QB in this league.

All due respect, this is not agreeing with Chase. If I can have a competent coach and OC, I change my answer.

 

[Phase of the Game]

It's not just Jackson's QBR which has gone up every year that's important, because QBR stinks and is flawed. I use ANY/A for real analysis, and QBR when it shows similar results so I don't have to explain why I'm using ANY/A.Completion percentageYards per attemptYards per completionTouchdown percenageInterception rate (absence of)Jackson has improved each year of his career in each of those five categories.

So....tell us what type of career you see from Jackson and what the Vikings can expect with Jackson as their QB.

 

[FunkyPlutos]

I have heard the Cassel talk, etc. but I haven't heard anyone mention John David Booty as a legitimate threat to the starting job. Does anyone think he will have a chance to compete for the job next season?

 

[BeTheMatch]

I have heard the Cassel talk, etc. but I haven't heard anyone mention John David Booty as a legitimate threat to the starting job. Does anyone think he will have a chance to compete for the job next season?

A guy who's never taken a snap in the league? Don't think that's something a playoff team wants to be doing.

 

[bcr8f]

I have heard the Cassel talk, etc. but I haven't heard anyone mention John David Booty as a legitimate threat to the starting job. Does anyone think he will have a chance to compete for the job next season?

Maybe next year. We should see by TC what work he did during the offseason.

 

[BigJim®]

I have heard the Cassel talk, etc. but I haven't heard anyone mention John David Booty as a legitimate threat to the starting job. Does anyone think he will have a chance to compete for the job next season?

It's a good question, but unfortunately Booty seems like just another uninspired QB move by this team. It's part of the ongoing scheme to give Jackson token competition, but not so much competition that he'd actually, you know, threaten Jackson's spot. It's not unlike the way they've approached vet QB 'competition.' We'll no doubt learn more about Booty overe the offseason and into preseason, but right now it seems like Booty is a prospect who is not good enough to really make a case for putting Jackson on the bench, yet he's enough of a prospect not to cut or risk moving to the practice squad.

 

[North]

How good can a coach be when he has ZERO at the QB position? Get a QB and I bet he's a better coach next year!

Star-Tribune

Mark Wilf: Childress will be back in 2009

"Absolutely," the Vikings president replied when asked if the team planned to bring back the coach and his staff for a fourth season after the playoff loss.

By SID HARTMAN, Star Tribune

Last update: January 4, 2009 - 11:36 PM

The Vikings' 2008 season ended Sunday when they lost in the first round of the playoffs 26-14 to the Eagles, a better football team. Some fans might be unhappy with the way the season ended, but Mark Wilf, co-owner and president of the Vikings, made it clear after the game that there will be no changes regarding coach Brad Childress.

"We have a great team, we have a lot to be proud of this year and there's something to build on for next year," Wilf said. "But it's obviously very disappointing, and we'll move on."

Asked whether Childress and his staff will be back, Wilf, the younger brother of owner and chairman Zygi Wilf, replied, "Absolutely."

Mark Wilf made it clear that as owners of the team, he and his family will continue to add any players that the football department believes are needed to improve the roster.

"Absolutely, we're going to build from this and move forward," he said.

Well, the Vikings made it into the playoffs for the first time in four years, but in the end they still fell short of the Super Bowl, making it 32 years since they last appeared in the NFL's biggest game.

"That's our goal," Wilf said of the Super Bowl. "It always has been, and we made a step this year."

To show you how bad the play calling is lets take a look at November 23rd with Minn. up 23 to 10 and a chance to put the game away at the end of the 3rd quarter.1st and goal from the 1. What would you do with the best running back in football on your team? Any other right minded coach would run Peterson or Taylor 4 straight times.

What does Childress do? Calls a play action resulting in Frerotte getting sacked for a 10 yard loss, then on 3rd down Frerotte gets a delay of game call putting them in a position where they have to settle for a field goal. It didn't hurt them in this instance but his poor play calling is evident every week. Head coaches aren't supposed to out smart themselves, they're supposed to do what they need to win games. The Vikes won this year dispite Childress, not because of him

Childress is just a lifeless coach who won't do anything for the Vikes. Even the commentators were making fun of his post game speech saying that he shows no emotion.

No offense, but that's ridiculous criticism. You're saying you can't call a play action pass on 1st and goal from the 1 when everyone's thinking run? Come on.

I'm not saying you cant call play action pass, I'm just giving another example of his decision making and how it comes back to haunt you. Anyone else runs 4 times for the TD, it's the low risk call. Too many things can happen when you call PAP. Behind that O line and with the best RB in the league, you run it. You dont put the ball in Frerottes hands. After all, other than him knocking himself out of a football game in a TD celebration, what has he ever done? It's just another example of questionable play calling.

Just thought this deserves a bump. The contract extension was a horrible move for the Viikes. Chilly has been a below average coach at best and he luck boxed his way into an extension last year. He's clearly proving that the extension was a bad move by the owner. And then to put this guy in complete control of player moves, dumb move. They need to let Chilly go as well.