Can we finally dismiss the alleged Madden Curse? (1 Viewer)

[Frank Black]

Vince Young was the poster boy on the Madden Cover this last season. He didn't have a stellar year and missed 2 games due to injury, but to me that does not come close to previous alleged Madden victims. So many players in the NFL miss 2 games a season so that in itself isn't a big deal. As seen below, Weiner Dog points out some improvements in Young's 2nd season from his 1st season.

As posted by Weiner Dog in a different thread:

"2006

QB rating - 66.7

Completion % - 51.5%

Yards/Attempt - 6.2 yards

Yards/Game - 146.6

2007

QB rating - 71.1

Completion % - 62.3%

Yards/Attempt - 6.7 yards

Yards/Game - 169.7

Most importantly, the Titans finished the '07 regular season with a 10-6 record and made the playoffs. In '06, the Titans finished 8-8 and obviously missed the playoffs.

Granted, Young's TD-INT ratio was worse in '07 (9-17) vs '06 (12-13) and this cannot entirely be blamed on the week WR/TE corp. Young has less rushing yards & TD's in '07, but I would assume most understand Young was battling a leg injury."

Based on the above, can you Madden Curse believers finally lay this absurd myth to rest?

 

[BelichicksRevenge]

Most good quarterbacks improved significantly in their second year ( see Manning, Palmer, McNabb, etc., for examples) . I think Young was the same and his int - td ratio worse. Its very rare that a qb does not improve his td-int ratio in his second year. Jinx still on.

 

[SSOG]

Based on the above, can you Madden Curse believers finally lay this absurd myth to rest?

If Eddie George didn't dispel the myth, then certainly Vince Young won't.

 

[the hairy scotsman]

Vince Young was the poster boy on the Madden Cover this last season. He didn't have a stellar year and missed 2 games due to injury, but to me that does not come close to previous alleged Madden victims. So many players in the NFL miss 2 games a season so that in itself isn't a big deal. As seen below, Weiner Dog points out some improvements in Young's 2nd season from his 1st season.

As posted by Weiner Dog in a different thread:

"2006

QB rating - 66.7

Completion % - 51.5%

Yards/Attempt - 6.2 yards

Yards/Game - 146.6

2007

QB rating - 71.1

Completion % - 62.3%

Yards/Attempt - 6.7 yards

Yards/Game - 169.7

Most importantly, the Titans finished the '07 regular season with a 10-6 record and made the playoffs. In '06, the Titans finished 8-8 and obviously missed the playoffs.

Granted, Young's TD-INT ratio was worse in '07 (9-17) vs '06 (12-13) and this cannot entirely be blamed on the week WR/TE corp. Young has less rushing yards & TD's in '07, but I would assume most understand Young was battling a leg injury."

Based on the above, can you Madden Curse believers finally lay this absurd myth to rest?

This all looks strangely familiar.Oh yeah...here it is:

VY really only regressed in TD/INT ratio and rushing yards.

VY's passer rating improved over last year (71.1 to 66.7), as did his completion % (62.3 - 51.5), completions (238 - 184), yards/att (6.66 - 6.16), and yards (2546 - 2199). Also, the Titans record in December was 4 - 1. The Titans receivers are, well, not good. VY was hurt, and he could be more accurate working under center. Still, Young had a passer rating of 84.1 in the five December games with as many TDs as picks. Maybe he's working out some of his problems.

Vince's 84.1 rating in December was a little better than Cutler's, a little better than the Texans' QBs, and a lot better than Tony Romo's, for example.

Hopefully, Fish will bring someone in who will spread the field and show some creativity, at least more than they have up 'til now. "Spread" doesn't necessarily mean "insane, all-out, balls to the wall". You can really be conservative from the spread if you want. It's just a different set and philosophy.

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...77855&st=50Great minds...

 

[Spartans Rule]

Based on the above, can you Madden Curse believers finally lay this absurd myth to rest?

If Eddie George didn't dispel the myth, then certainly Vince Young won't.

 

[Da Guru]

Based on the above, can you Madden Curse believers finally lay this absurd myth to rest?

If Eddie George didn't dispel the myth, then certainly Vince Young won't.

The myth is still intact...

 

[BassNBrew]

2007

28 QB Young,Vince TEN 15 382 238 2546 9 17 93 395 3 3 204.1 13.612006

12 QB  Young,Vince		   TEN 15  356  184 2199   12   13   82   553	 7	 3 242.9 16.19

Dropped from a borderline QB1 to a QB3....can't dismiss Madden. fyi...His winning percentage as a starter was higher last year and they wouldn't have made the playoffs without Collins coming to the rescue.

 

[The Hank]

The Madden curse in this case might have helped VY be BETTER!

 

[PranksterJD]

Based on the above, can you Madden Curse believers finally lay this absurd myth to rest?

If Eddie George didn't dispel the myth, then certainly Vince Young won't.

Bah... Madden was just messing with us and gave Eddie an extra year before cursing him because of the United Way commercial where the guy got hit by his friend with the rake. And why don't you guys calm down with your so-called "logic" and let the rest of us have some fun

 

[SSOG]

Vince Young was the poster boy on the Madden Cover this last season. He didn't have a stellar year and missed 2 games due to injury, but to me that does not come close to previous alleged Madden victims. So many players in the NFL miss 2 games a season so that in itself isn't a big deal. As seen below, Weiner Dog points out some improvements in Young's 2nd season from his 1st season.

As posted by Weiner Dog in a different thread:

"2006

QB rating - 66.7

Completion % - 51.5%

Yards/Attempt - 6.2 yards

Yards/Game - 146.6

2007

QB rating - 71.1

Completion % - 62.3%

Yards/Attempt - 6.7 yards

Yards/Game - 169.7

Most importantly, the Titans finished the '07 regular season with a 10-6 record and made the playoffs. In '06, the Titans finished 8-8 and obviously missed the playoffs.

Granted, Young's TD-INT ratio was worse in '07 (9-17) vs '06 (12-13) and this cannot entirely be blamed on the week WR/TE corp. Young has less rushing yards & TD's in '07, but I would assume most understand Young was battling a leg injury."

Based on the above, can you Madden Curse believers finally lay this absurd myth to rest?

This all looks strangely familiar.Oh yeah...here it is:

VY really only regressed in TD/INT ratio and rushing yards.

VY's passer rating improved over last year (71.1 to 66.7), as did his completion % (62.3 - 51.5), completions (238 - 184), yards/att (6.66 - 6.16), and yards (2546 - 2199). Also, the Titans record in December was 4 - 1. The Titans receivers are, well, not good. VY was hurt, and he could be more accurate working under center. Still, Young had a passer rating of 84.1 in the five December games with as many TDs as picks. Maybe he's working out some of his problems.

Vince's 84.1 rating in December was a little better than Cutler's, a little better than the Texans' QBs, and a lot better than Tony Romo's, for example.

Hopefully, Fish will bring someone in who will spread the field and show some creativity, at least more than they have up 'til now. "Spread" doesn't necessarily mean "insane, all-out, balls to the wall". You can really be conservative from the spread if you want. It's just a different set and philosophy.

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...77855&st=50Great minds...

Yes, and Reggie Bush's ypc in December of 2006 was clear evidence that he was finally putting everything together and was going to be a force to be reckoned with in 2007. And Miami's winning streak at the end of 2005 left them poised for a run to the superbowl in 2006.Sometimes, splits just happen. Finishing a season hot doesn't really correlate well with opening the next season hot.

 

[the hairy scotsman]

Vince Young was the poster boy on the Madden Cover this last season. He didn't have a stellar year and missed 2 games due to injury, but to me that does not come close to previous alleged Madden victims. So many players in the NFL miss 2 games a season so that in itself isn't a big deal. As seen below, Weiner Dog points out some improvements in Young's 2nd season from his 1st season.

As posted by Weiner Dog in a different thread:

"2006

QB rating - 66.7

Completion % - 51.5%

Yards/Attempt - 6.2 yards

Yards/Game - 146.6

2007

QB rating - 71.1

Completion % - 62.3%

Yards/Attempt - 6.7 yards

Yards/Game - 169.7

Most importantly, the Titans finished the '07 regular season with a 10-6 record and made the playoffs. In '06, the Titans finished 8-8 and obviously missed the playoffs.

Granted, Young's TD-INT ratio was worse in '07 (9-17) vs '06 (12-13) and this cannot entirely be blamed on the week WR/TE corp. Young has less rushing yards & TD's in '07, but I would assume most understand Young was battling a leg injury."

Based on the above, can you Madden Curse believers finally lay this absurd myth to rest?

This all looks strangely familiar.Oh yeah...here it is:

VY really only regressed in TD/INT ratio and rushing yards.

VY's passer rating improved over last year (71.1 to 66.7), as did his completion % (62.3 - 51.5), completions (238 - 184), yards/att (6.66 - 6.16), and yards (2546 - 2199). Also, the Titans record in December was 4 - 1. The Titans receivers are, well, not good. VY was hurt, and he could be more accurate working under center. Still, Young had a passer rating of 84.1 in the five December games with as many TDs as picks. Maybe he's working out some of his problems.

Vince's 84.1 rating in December was a little better than Cutler's, a little better than the Texans' QBs, and a lot better than Tony Romo's, for example.

Hopefully, Fish will bring someone in who will spread the field and show some creativity, at least more than they have up 'til now. "Spread" doesn't necessarily mean "insane, all-out, balls to the wall". You can really be conservative from the spread if you want. It's just a different set and philosophy.

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...77855&st=50Great minds...

Yes, and Reggie Bush's ypc in December of 2006 was clear evidence that he was finally putting everything together and was going to be a force to be reckoned with in 2007. And Miami's winning streak at the end of 2005 left them poised for a run to the superbowl in 2006.Sometimes, splits just happen. Finishing a season hot doesn't really correlate well with opening the next season hot.

?Wrong thread?

Who said anything about next season?

We're just saying the only number which supports claims that VY regressed in 2007 is the TD/Int ratio.

 

[the hairy scotsman]

2007

28 QB  Young,Vince		   TEN 15  382  238 2546	9   17   93   395	 3	 3 204.1 13.61

2006

12 QB  Young,Vince		   TEN 15  356  184 2199   12   13   82   553	 7	 3 242.9 16.19

Dropped from a borderline QB1 to a QB3....can't dismiss Madden. fyi...His winning percentage as a starter was higher last year and they wouldn't have made the playoffs without Collins coming to the rescue.

2006: 61.5 winning % (8-5)2007: 60 % (9-6)Yep. Madden jinx in full effect!

 

[obxlegends]

The Madden Curse was Vince Young having THOSE WR's.

 

[twitch]

what was Vince Young doing on the Madden cover to begin with?

 

[FUBAR]

Most good quarterbacks improved significantly in their second year ( see Manning, Palmer, McNabb, etc., for examples) . I think Young was the same and his int - td ratio worse. Its very rare that a qb does not improve his td-int ratio in his second year. Jinx still on.

Two of the best QBs of our time (all-time?) "regressed" from their first year starting to their second.A:

pass %: 63.9 - 62.1

Rate: 86.5 - 85.7

Y/A: 6.9 - 6.3

Pro Bowl appearance to not

B:

pass %: 64.1 - 60.9

TD/INT: 18/13 - 19/24

Rate: 85.3 - 72.2

Y/A: 6.9 - 6.3

 

[FUBAR]

2007

28 QB Young,Vince TEN 15 382 238 2546 9 17 93 395 3 3 204.1 13.612006

12 QB  Young,Vince		   TEN 15  356  184 2199   12   13   82   553	 7	 3 242.9 16.19

Dropped from a borderline QB1 to a QB3....can't dismiss Madden. fyi...His winning percentage as a starter was higher last year and they wouldn't have made the playoffs without Collins coming to the rescue.

O RLY? You say that as if Collins had to bail a struggling VY out.

 

[Londo]

what was Vince Young doing on the Madden cover to begin with?

LT turned it down. As for the jinx, I think it demolished his fantasy value, does that count?

 

[Andy Herron]

what was Vince Young doing on the Madden cover to begin with?

Good question!He's bad enough WITHOUT being on the cover of Madden.

 

[Pai Mei]

Let's pretend Vince Young had an all-pro year. That still would only change perception from "the Madden curse is a near-certainity" to "the Madden curse is slightly less than a near certainty".

 

[the hairy scotsman]

2007

28 QB Young,Vince TEN 15 382 238 2546 9 17 93 395 3 3 204.1 13.612006

12 QB  Young,Vince		   TEN 15  356  184 2199   12   13   82   553	 7	 3 242.9 16.19

Dropped from a borderline QB1 to a QB3....can't dismiss Madden. fyi...His winning percentage as a starter was higher last year and they wouldn't have made the playoffs without Collins coming to the rescue.

O RLY? You say that as if Collins had to bail a struggling VY out.

Yeah, Collins started the Texans game when VY was hurt, leading the Titans to 8 Rob Bironas FGs and two rushing TDs. How is this a knock on VY, and who really came to the rescue in that game? He also finished a coupla games where VY got hurt during the game. In other words, he did his job, and he did a good job. Nothing to see here.

 

[Keys Myaths]

This is all pretty ridiculous.

 

[Frank Black]

This is all pretty ridiculous.

You're right, the alleged Madden curse is pretty ridiculous.

 

[Max Power]

Vince Young was at least a "playmaker" in 2006. He seemed to forget how to run the ball in 07

 

[Jous]

Vince Young sucked this season... after 2006 people had him as a borderline or sometimes already a top 10 QB. Now most people won't place him above #20. That says he was affected negatively this year.

 

[the hairy scotsman]

Vince Young sucked this season... after 2006 people had him as a borderline or sometimes already a top 10 QB. Now most people won't place him above #20. That says he was affected negatively this year.

In FF.

 

[Liquid Tension]

Vince Young was the poster boy on the Madden Cover this last season. He didn't have a stellar year and missed 2 games due to injury, but to me that does not come close to previous alleged Madden victims. So many players in the NFL miss 2 games a season so that in itself isn't a big deal. As seen below, Weiner Dog points out some improvements in Young's 2nd season from his 1st season.As posted by Weiner Dog in a different thread:"2006QB rating - 66.7Completion % - 51.5%Yards/Attempt - 6.2 yardsYards/Game - 146.62007QB rating - 71.1Completion % - 62.3%Yards/Attempt - 6.7 yardsYards/Game - 169.7Most importantly, the Titans finished the '07 regular season with a 10-6 record and made the playoffs. In '06, the Titans finished 8-8 and obviously missed the playoffs.Granted, Young's TD-INT ratio was worse in '07 (9-17) vs '06 (12-13) and this cannot entirely be blamed on the week WR/TE corp. Young has less rushing yards & TD's in '07, but I would assume most understand Young was battling a leg injury."Based on the above, can you Madden Curse believers finally lay this absurd myth to rest?

Curses are But, you picked a bad example to prove that point. Young was not any better than the previous year IMO.

 

[Jous]

Vince Young sucked this season... after 2006 people had him as a borderline or sometimes already a top 10 QB. Now most people won't place him above #20. That says he was affected negatively this year.

In FF.

I'm not talking about FF... personally I don't care at all about FF and don't play it, I only come here for the football discussion which usually tends to be pretty good.But yeah, most people wouldn't be caught placing VY in their top 10 or even top 15 after this seaosn, whereas last year I saw him in a lot of top 10 lists. Personally, I would take about 19 or 20 QB's ahead of Young.

 

[rzrback77]

Vince Young sucked this season... after 2006 people had him as a borderline or sometimes already a top 10 QB. Now most people won't place him above #20. That says he was affected negatively this year.

In FF.

I'm not talking about FF... personally I don't care at all about FF and don't play it, I only come here for the football discussion which usually tends to be pretty good.But yeah, most people wouldn't be caught placing VY in their top 10 or even top 15 after this seaosn, whereas last year I saw him in a lot of top 10 lists. Personally, I would take about 19 or 20 QB's ahead of Young.

Interesting from a non-FF analysis. Speaking directly to fantasy value for Vince Young, last year he finished QB12 and that included not playing in one game and very little in another. His TDs reduced, his interceptions went way up, his rushing yards way down....in summary he was on the waiver wire in my ten team league from about week 7 on in 07.

 

[Max Power]

Vince Young sucked this season... after 2006 people had him as a borderline or sometimes already a top 10 QB. Now most people won't place him above #20. That says he was affected negatively this year.

In FF.

I'm not talking about FF... personally I don't care at all about FF and don't play it, I only come here for the football discussion which usually tends to be pretty good.But yeah, most people wouldn't be caught placing VY in their top 10 or even top 15 after this seaosn, whereas last year I saw him in a lot of top 10 lists. Personally, I would take about 19 or 20 QB's ahead of Young.

Interesting from a non-FF analysis. Speaking directly to fantasy value for Vince Young, last year he finished QB12 and that included not playing in one game and very little in another. His TDs reduced, his interceptions went way up, his rushing yards way down....in summary he was on the waiver wire in my ten team league from about week 7 on in 07.

Im the idiot who wasted a 6th rd pick on this turd. Considering the scoring was 50yrds passing =1, Pass TD 4 pts and 10yds Rushing = 1pt, 6pt rush TD. I figured in my league he would be a top 3-5 QB

 

[the hairy scotsman]

Vince Young sucked this season... after 2006 people had him as a borderline or sometimes already a top 10 QB. Now most people won't place him above #20. That says he was affected negatively this year.

In FF.

I'm not talking about FF... personally I don't care at all about FF and don't play it, I only come here for the football discussion which usually tends to be pretty good.But yeah, most people wouldn't be caught placing VY in their top 10 or even top 15 after this seaosn, whereas last year I saw him in a lot of top 10 lists. Personally, I would take about 19 or 20 QB's ahead of Young.

Interesting from a non-FF analysis. Speaking directly to fantasy value for Vince Young, last year he finished QB12 and that included not playing in one game and very little in another. His TDs reduced, his interceptions went way up, his rushing yards way down....in summary he was on the waiver wire in my ten team league from about week 7 on in 07.

Im the idiot who wasted a 6th rd pick on this turd. Considering the scoring was 50yrds passing =1, Pass TD 4 pts and 10yds Rushing = 1pt, 6pt rush TD. I figured in my league he would be a top 3-5 QB

Well, you were surely warned. A lot of reasonable folks, including a lot of VY fans, were predicting a decline in his #s for 2007 and a tough row to hoe for the Titans' offense given all that they gave up in the offseason.

 

[Liquid Tension]

Vince Young sucked this season... after 2006 people had him as a borderline or sometimes already a top 10 QB. Now most people won't place him above #20. That says he was affected negatively this year.

In FF.

I'm not talking about FF... personally I don't care at all about FF and don't play it, I only come here for the football discussion which usually tends to be pretty good.But yeah, most people wouldn't be caught placing VY in their top 10 or even top 15 after this seaosn, whereas last year I saw him in a lot of top 10 lists. Personally, I would take about 19 or 20 QB's ahead of Young.

Interesting from a non-FF analysis. Speaking directly to fantasy value for Vince Young, last year he finished QB12 and that included not playing in one game and very little in another. His TDs reduced, his interceptions went way up, his rushing yards way down....in summary he was on the waiver wire in my ten team league from about week 7 on in 07.

Im the idiot who wasted a 6th rd pick on this turd. Considering the scoring was 50yrds passing =1, Pass TD 4 pts and 10yds Rushing = 1pt, 6pt rush TD. I figured in my league he would be a top 3-5 QB

Well, you were surely warned. A lot of reasonable folks, including a lot of VY fans, were predicting a decline in his #s for 2007 and a tough row to hoe for the Titans' offense given all that they gave up in the offseason.

If I remember Dodds was high on him

 

[Harald]

Gonna be sweet with Brady all cursed up next season!

 

[SSOG]

?

Wrong thread?

Who said anything about next season?

We're just saying the only number which supports claims that VY regressed in 2007 is the TD/Int ratio.

I was responding to the following quote:

VY really only regressed in TD/INT ratio and rushing yards.

VY's passer rating improved over last year (71.1 to 66.7), as did his completion % (62.3 - 51.5), completions (238 - 184), yards/att (6.66 - 6.16), and yards (2546 - 2199). Also, the Titans record in December was 4 - 1. The Titans receivers are, well, not good. VY was hurt, and he could be more accurate working under center. Still, Young had a passer rating of 84.1 in the five December games with as many TDs as picks. Maybe he's working out some of his problems.

It's possible that Vince Young was working out some of his problems. It's also possible that that was just one of those fluke late-season splits that crops up from time to time and is indicative of absolutely nothing at all (a la Reggie Bush's strong December 2006).

 

[amnesiac]

do NOT taunt the Madden Curse!