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Carlos Beltran - HOF? (1 Viewer)

Long Ball Larry

Long Ball Larry

Footballguy
400 HR

1500 RBI

2500 H

500 2B

Premium position where he was a good defender at least for the first half of his career.

Good postseason player.

Black Ink and Gray Ink not great, but Hall of Fame Monitor and Standards and JAWS look good.

What say you?

 
I would say yes. Gold glove defense and amazing base stealer when young. Not overwhelmingly qualified but he's in for me.

 
He's been a very good player for a long time but his numbers just don't jump off the page.  His black ink score of 1 places him among the most suspicious veteran's committee selections (and Carlton Fisk) among HoFers.  If Beltran does get in, it'll be because the BBWAA collectively evolved to become more statistically aware. 

He'd be only the fourth Puerto Rican born member after Clemente, Cepeda and Alomar.  Tony Perez called the island home but was born in Cuba.

I'd like to see him get in but I'm a big hall guy.

 
Long Ball Larry said:
400 HR

1500 RBI

2500 H

500 2B

Premium position where he was a good defender at least for the first half of his career.

Good postseason player.

Black Ink and Gray Ink not great, but Hall of Fame Monitor and Standards and JAWS look good.

What say you?
Click to expand...
Black ink and Gray ink?

JAWS? What the heck is that?

I do know that his GOUT and MONTANA are high. His SALEM is okay. His SAMBA would put him in the 40th percentile of Hall of Famers. His APARICIO is a little low, though. 

So, I don't know. He seems kind borderline to me. 

 
Fariq said:
Black ink and Gray ink?

JAWS? What the heck is that?

I do know that his GOUT and MONTANA are high. His SALEM is okay. His SAMBA would put him in the 40th percentile of Hall of Famers. His APARICIO is a little low, though. 

So, I don't know. He seems kind borderline to me. 
Click to expand...
Agreed, doesn't really smile enough.

 
Long Ball Larry said:
400 HR

1500 RBI

2500 H

500 2B

Premium position where he was a good defender at least for the first half of his career.

Good postseason player.

Black Ink and Gray Ink not great, but Hall of Fame Monitor and Standards and JAWS look good.

What say you?
Click to expand...
IN. 
There's a pretty big drop between Beltran and the CFs ahead of him on the JAWS list, but there's a lot of HOF CFs who have accomplished a lot less than Beltran.  Has an outstanding forgotten 2004 season (36 doubles, 38 HRs, 42 SBs) because he got traded from AL to NL midseason.  

Never won a World Series.  Didn't even play in one until he was 36.  I blame the Royals and Mets.    

 
Beltran adds a WS ring to his credentials, which is a nice cherry on top of a long and successful career.  He's sitting at 69.8 career rWAR but gave some back this year. 

I don't think he'll get in the Hall.

 
PIK95 said:
Never really passed the eye test for me as a great player.
Click to expand...
He had his moments... but even at his best is was a subtle "did all things really really" well best, but never felt like an all out dominating player.

His redonk early career playoff performances which led to some really good early years with the Mets are the peak.  But I agree in that he's a really good, exceptionally well rounded ball player.  But not HOF.

 
Problem is, he should have been better 

I  remember seeing him on the cover of Sports Illustrated, It was titled THE BEST PLAYER IN THE GAME 

this would have been around his second or third year....he just couldn’t maintain his original pace   I don’t know if he got complacent, or injuries caught up with him 

guy could have been one of the greats 

 
I can understand the HoVG argument but not the criticism because he somehow didn't reach his potential.  Beltran played to age 40 and compiled 70 WAR along the way.  We're not talking about someone like Dwight Gooden here.

Beltran didn't put up eye popping traditional stats in any one area.  His best full season AVG was .307 and he topped out at 41 HRs and 116 RBI.  But he did everything well with the bat and contributed excellent baserunning and defense.  He was among the best players in the game for a decade although not really at the top of the pyramid except for a couple of years.

 
Eephus said:
I can understand the HoVG argument but not the criticism because he somehow didn't reach his potential.  Beltran played to age 40 and compiled 70 WAR along the way.  We're not talking about someone like Dwight Gooden here.

Beltran didn't put up eye popping traditional stats in any one area.  His best full season AVG was .307 and he topped out at 41 HRs and 116 RBI.  But he did everything well with the bat and contributed excellent baserunning and defense.  He was among the best players in the game for a decade although not really at the top of the pyramid except for a couple of years.
Click to expand...
In the steroid era, that's not enough for me.  I assume everyone juiced and I don't even care if any power hitters from 90-10 even get it.  I would rather see the guys like Raines and the 80's Tigers players get in before players like this.

 
Hall of Very Good - Top 10 MVP voting 2x, Top 5 1x.  ROY, but never lead league in any major offensive cat.  A consistent compiler, but I never though HOF watching him and I'm a Met homer.  He was; however, arguably the best met position player ever IMO.

 
Eephus said:
I can understand the HoVG argument but not the criticism because he somehow didn't reach his potential.  Beltran played to age 40 and compiled 70 WAR along the way.  We're not talking about someone like Dwight Gooden here.

Beltran didn't put up eye popping traditional stats in any one area.  His best full season AVG was .307 and he topped out at 41 HRs and 116 RBI.  But he did everything well with the bat and contributed excellent baserunning and defense.  He was among the best players in the game for a decade although not really at the top of the pyramid except for a couple of years.
Click to expand...
This is one of the reasons he doesn't make it.  And even in those couple years, we are not talking take a team on your back for the ENTIRE season, other-wordly production.  It's not like he had 45+ HRs, .400+ OBP killer season where he won an MVP or two.  He was among the best for a little while, was a really really good all around player (one of the better players in the league for a good while) who contributed all around. 

But he never had even a three year stretch of dominance.  I'm more inclined to go with someone like a Gooden (had he a few more years of peak), where there was out of this world dominance, a truly gifted and special once-in-a-generation talent who did things no one else could do, than someone like Beltran. That may not be fair, but I still think HoF means elite for an extended period of time, with some peak of absolute greatness.  Which is why my HoF would be a lot smaller than what we see.  

Sorry Morris. 

 
Chemical X said:
Hall of Very Good - Top 10 MVP voting 2x, Top 5 1x.  ROY, but never lead league in any major offensive cat.  A consistent compiler, but I never though HOF watching him and I'm a Met homer.  He was; however, arguably the best met position player ever IMO.
Click to expand...
He was on the trajectory of being a HoFer when he signed that deal... but he needed to do for 2-3 seasons at least, what he did in the playoffs in terms of WOW IMPACT, and he came pretty close that one year, but other than that, a really, really good player. A great player.  Not one of the all time greats though, not at all.

 
Surprised by the comments. Not that I disagree with them but I always thought the consensus in recent years was he was considered to be a hall of famer.

 
Koya said:
This is one of the reasons he doesn't make it.  And even in those couple years, we are not talking take a team on your back for the ENTIRE season, other-wordly production.  It's not like he had 45+ HRs, .400+ OBP killer season where he won an MVP or two.  He was among the best for a little while, was a really really good all around player (one of the better players in the league for a good while) who contributed all around. 

But he never had even a three year stretch of dominance.  I'm more inclined to go with someone like a Gooden (had he a few more years of peak), where there was out of this world dominance, a truly gifted and special once-in-a-generation talent who did things no one else could do, than someone like Beltran. That may not be fair, but I still think HoF means elite for an extended period of time, with some peak of absolute greatness.  Which is why my HoF would be a lot smaller than what we see.  

Sorry Morris. 
Click to expand...
I agree with the first part, but Morris is always in my hall.  That guy was terrifying.

 
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