Cassel just traded to Chiefs..... (1 Viewer)

[David Yudkin]

I have to chuckle when people question the Pats philosophy. I wonder how many people have followed the NFL for the last decade when I see people acting like they actually know how to run the Pats better then they have since their first SB win.I am surprised more NFL teams don't follow their philosophy.

I've been hearing from Pats haters for years that NE is at the threshhold of falling to 5-11 with the way they run their operation, mistreat players, are getting too old, etc.As for NE, I believe they now have picks:Round 1: 23Round 2: 2, 15, 26Round 3: 25 (with a compensatory pick for Samuel after the 32nd pick still coming)It remains to be seen with two of their main draft gurus now GMs in ATL and KC how well Belichick can draft now that he's more on his own . . .

Unfortunately, the Pats are getting reloaded this year, no reason not to expect a return to dominance this year.

We'll see. Pat need help in the following areas:Only 2 WR with any experience (although Moss and Welker are a pretty awesome duo)Key guys on OL & DL have contracts ending soonLBs are Mayo and Thomas with ??? (Brushci is getting up there and who knows at OLB)DBs need some work tooWho knows how well Brady will do coming backI agree that the Pats can probably retool and make things work, but they have a fair share of issues to address.

 

[southeastjerome]

SECOND-ROUND PICK FOR CASSEL

Posted by Mike Florio: Saturday, February 28, 2009 1:34 PM

I previously was convinced that the Patriots wouldn't be able to work out a trade sending quarterback Matt Cassel to the Chiefs because I believed that new Chiefs G.M. Scott Pioli and his former colleagues in New England feared the perception that one side got snookered.

There was no such fear, but it won't change the perception that one side got snookered.

Peter King of SI.com (who also does some work for NBC, and pretty much every other media company on the planet) reports that the Chiefs gave up only a second-round draft pick for Cassel.

Wow.

A second-round pick, for a guy who merited a $14.65 million, one-year contract based on his play in 2008.

Let's consider that for a second. Daunte Culpepper with blown-out knee was traded for a second-round pick. A.J. Feeley was traded for a second-round pick.

So, with all due apologies to the Patriots, the current score is Pioli 1, Pats 0.

This guy doesn't realize that the Pats don't want early 1st round extra picks which will only eat up cap space. Late 1st or 2nd round is what the Pats want where they can draft and pay the players less than an early 1st rounder. I don't see how this guy can score the Pats 0 when the Pats want a 2nd or late 1st round pick for him.

Link?You're crazy if you think they don't want higher picks. While I'll agree that they don't like paying rookies huge money, they'd gladly take a high pick and look to deal it, ala last year to pick up more picks. Basically your saying that they would have rather had the 10 pick last year to take Mayo instead of having the 7th and trading it (along with a 5th rounder) for the 10th an extra 3rd like they did.

Mike Lombardi who has 23 Years as a high level executive in the NFL was on nfl network and said, "GM's love the early part of the 2nd rd draft picks and they are like gold." There isn't as much money tied up and the contract that is given is fair. He also mentioned the odds of getting a good player in the 2nd round are just as good pickingin the top 5. He said with so many busts early on in the draft and all that money tied up had GM's valuing the 2nd round more the the first.

I was trying to locate that and I think he said that on the Inside the NFL on Showtime or one of Simmon's podcasts.

Not denying people love 2nd round picks. Again the first rounder has more value. Why didn't the pats just trade out of the top 10 last year for the #34 overall? I'm sure they would have found a willing trade partner. I'll agree that the Pats don't like to pay rookies a lot, but again anyone who thinks they'd rather have a 2nd rounder instead of a first has a screw loose.

Most likely cause Mayo fell to them when the Jets screwed up their first round pick. I am sure they looked into trading down but when he fell it was crazy to not take him at a steal at #10

Uhh, the Pats traded back to 10 because their plan was to land Mayo there. I think we both agree that they don't like the big salaries that high picks get. On the other hand, again, you're nuts if you think they'd rather have the 34th pick over a top 10 pick this year. Again, for the trade value alone, they could easily get the 34th AND another pick.

 

[southeastjerome]

I have to chuckle when people question the Pats philosophy. I wonder how many people have followed the NFL for the last decade when I see people acting like they actually know how to run the Pats better then they have since their first SB win.I am surprised more NFL teams don't follow their philosophy.

I've been hearing from Pats haters for years that NE is at the threshhold of falling to 5-11 with the way they run their operation, mistreat players, are getting too old, etc.As for NE, I believe they now have picks:Round 1: 23Round 2: 2, 15, 26Round 3: 25 (with a compensatory pick for Samuel after the 32nd pick still coming)It remains to be seen with two of their main draft gurus now GMs in ATL and KC how well Belichick can draft now that he's more on his own . . .

Unfortunately, the Pats are getting reloaded this year, no reason not to expect a return to dominance this year.

We'll see. Pat need help in the following areas:Only 2 WR with any experience (although Moss and Welker are a pretty awesome duo)Key guys on OL & DL have contracts ending soonLBs are Mayo and Thomas with ??? (Brushci is getting up there and who knows at OLB)DBs need some work tooWho knows how well Brady will do coming backI agree that the Pats can probably retool and make things work, but they have a fair share of issues to address.

Good point. My guess would be that they sign one of the FA corners left. Most importantly, they need to hit with their draft picks. For all the credit they'v gotten, they haven't been very good with their post round 1 picks.

 

[David Yudkin]

Good point. My guess would be that they sign one of the FA corners left. Most importantly, they need to hit with their draft picks. For all the credit they'v gotten, they haven't been very good with their post round 1 picks.

That's another one that's debatable. Brady and Cassel seemed to bring pretty good value for 6th and 7th round picks. Also, they traded picks for Welker and Moss, so IMO that should count as "effective draft management."Part of the problem in evaluating NE's drafts is that they generally had so much depth that the guys they drafted were really up against it in making the squad. They also cherry picked guys for specific roles on the team (IMO more so than other teams), so taking a guy with the intent of playing him almost exclusively on special teams is a luxury most other teams don't have.As for actual picks that worked out . . .Steven Gostkowski 4thEllis Hobbs 2ndNick Kaczur 3rdJames Sanders 4thEugene Wilson 2ndAsante Samuel 4thDan Koppen 5thDeion Branch 2ndJarvis Green 4thDavid Givens 7thMatt Light 2ndI don't know how that compares to other teams, but the guys listed paid decent dividends.

 

[Adebisi]

I have to chuckle when people question the Pats philosophy. I wonder how many people have followed the NFL for the last decade when I see people acting like they actually know how to run the Pats better then they have since their first SB win.I am surprised more NFL teams don't follow their philosophy.

I've been hearing from Pats haters for years that NE is at the threshhold of falling to 5-11 with the way they run their operation, mistreat players, are getting too old, etc.As for NE, I believe they now have picks:Round 1: 23Round 2: 2, 15, 26Round 3: 25 (with a compensatory pick for Samuel after the 32nd pick still coming)It remains to be seen with two of their main draft gurus now GMs in ATL and KC how well Belichick can draft now that he's more on his own . . .

Unfortunately, the Pats are getting reloaded this year, no reason not to expect a return to dominance this year.

Not just "this year," but for years to come. The present aside, Pats are as set for the future as any team in the league.

 

[nerangers]

I am sure some feel that the Patriots were on the low end of the trade...I figured they would get a second for Cassel, and they did (and a high 2nd at that). I am sure a fourth round pick in the deal would have been nice as well since Vrabel was a part of the deal. Oh well...

I don't think you can just look at what the Patriots got, without looking at what they also freed up. Over 17 Million in Cap space! I was afraid when Free Agency started that the Patriots hands were tied due to the cap constraint...now they can be a player and fill some much needed holes besides a backup QB.

I thought Mike Reiss broke this down nicely:

But given what the market had to bear, this is a solid deal for the Patriots.

In situations like these, it's all about market conditions, and reacting accordingly.

There wasn't a large market for Cassel, which was a result of three main factors: 1) Not every team needed him; 2) Economics-wise, not every team could afford him; 3) Compensation-wise, not every team was willing to part with what it would take to acquire him (draft pick).

The Patriots figure to take a hit in opinion polls on this deal, but from this perspective, the main questions to answer are these:

Would the Patriots have been better off letting Cassel walk as an unrestricted free agent, and receiving a 2010 third-round compensatory pick in return?

Or is this scenario better, getting a high 2009 second-round pick (No. 34 overall, second in the round), while giving up a savvy veteran like Vrabel -- whose contract expires after 2009 and probably wouldn't have been back in 2010 -- to close the deal?

In the end, the feeling here is that the Patriots turned a 2005 seventh-round draft choice -- a player many felt would be cut at the end of training camp (me included) -- into a valuable 2009 second-round pick.

It hurts to lose Vrabel, but that's the risk the team took in placing the franchise tag on Cassel in the first place. They knew that if the market didn't generate, there would have to be some sacrifices.

So in the end, the Patriots adjusted well to what the market dictated.

This isn't the mega deal some were hoping for, perhaps even the Patriots themselves. But it's still a solid trade.

 

[munchkin]

Trading Vrabel and Cassel for only the #34 makes it clear that many Pats fans were overrating Cassel. I think the Pats got fair value for him, but to only get the 34th for him and Vrabel is a sign that no one views Cassel as a savior.

Good deal for KC. Vrabel will be very helpful for that D and obviously Cassel and Thigpen give them nice depth and youth at the QB position. I don't love either QB but between the two of them they should be good. AFC West is wide open this year, I think.

This will def. be a trade to watch. Either a lot of teams (e.g. Bucs, Vikings) are going to come out looking very dumb (or maybe just "risk-averse") or very shrewd. I can only imagine the calls for Childress's head in Minny if they are 3-8 with Sage while Cassel has the Chiefs at 8-3 ...

More than likely it will the other way around. The Chiefs should have traded for Sage, not because of talent but because Cassel's contract will likely be huge.

So it's better to trade for an inferior player? That logic escapes me. You can't praise the Patriots organization in one breathe (which very recently included Pioli) and chastise a key cog from that organization in another. I think we all have seen enough of Sage Rosenfels to know he is not the answer to stabilizing an organizations most important position on the field. Pioli has seen enough of Cassel to know that this will be money well spent. The Bucs can sit in their corner and count their Booty and the Vikings will continue to waste their opportunities in a weak division while the Chiefs and the Patriots continue to improve.

 

[southeastjerome]

Good point. My guess would be that they sign one of the FA corners left. Most importantly, they need to hit with their draft picks. For all the credit they'v gotten, they haven't been very good with their post round 1 picks.

That's another one that's debatable. Brady and Cassel seemed to bring pretty good value for 6th and 7th round picks. Also, they traded picks for Welker and Moss, so IMO that should count as "effective draft management."Part of the problem in evaluating NE's drafts is that they generally had so much depth that the guys they drafted were really up against it in making the squad. They also cherry picked guys for specific roles on the team (IMO more so than other teams), so taking a guy with the intent of playing him almost exclusively on special teams is a luxury most other teams don't have.As for actual picks that worked out . . .Steven Gostkowski 4thEllis Hobbs 2ndNick Kaczur 3rdJames Sanders 4thEugene Wilson 2ndAsante Samuel 4thDan Koppen 5thDeion Branch 2ndJarvis Green 4thDavid Givens 7thMatt Light 2ndI don't know how that compares to other teams, but the guys listed paid decent dividends.

I definately agree on Moss and Welker making the drafts successful. I was just saying that they haven't really done well picking after round one AS OF LATE. The guys on your list were pre 2006 except for Gostkowski. That's my point, they are known to be good drafts in a row haven't been so great. Obviously the jury is still out on guys like Wheatley and Crable.

 

[Walton Goggins]

I have to chuckle when people question the Pats philosophy. I wonder how many people have followed the NFL for the last decade when I see people acting like they actually know how to run the Pats better then they have since their first SB win.I am surprised more NFL teams don't follow their philosophy.

I've been hearing from Pats haters for years that NE is at the threshhold of falling to 5-11 with the way they run their operation, mistreat players, are getting too old, etc.As for NE, I believe they now have picks:Round 1: 23Round 2: 2, 15, 26Round 3: 25 (with a compensatory pick for Samuel after the 32nd pick still coming)It remains to be seen with two of their main draft gurus now GMs in ATL and KC how well Belichick can draft now that he's more on his own . . .

I am not a Pats fan by any means but for any NFL fan you have to respect how they run that team over there. I have no idea why nobody else tries the same thing.

 

[Walton Goggins]

SECOND-ROUND PICK FOR CASSEL

Posted by Mike Florio: Saturday, February 28, 2009 1:34 PM

I previously was convinced that the Patriots wouldn't be able to work out a trade sending quarterback Matt Cassel to the Chiefs because I believed that new Chiefs G.M. Scott Pioli and his former colleagues in New England feared the perception that one side got snookered.

There was no such fear, but it won't change the perception that one side got snookered.

Peter King of SI.com (who also does some work for NBC, and pretty much every other media company on the planet) reports that the Chiefs gave up only a second-round draft pick for Cassel.

Wow.

A second-round pick, for a guy who merited a $14.65 million, one-year contract based on his play in 2008.

Let's consider that for a second. Daunte Culpepper with blown-out knee was traded for a second-round pick. A.J. Feeley was traded for a second-round pick.

So, with all due apologies to the Patriots, the current score is Pioli 1, Pats 0.

This guy doesn't realize that the Pats don't want early 1st round extra picks which will only eat up cap space. Late 1st or 2nd round is what the Pats want where they can draft and pay the players less than an early 1st rounder. I don't see how this guy can score the Pats 0 when the Pats want a 2nd or late 1st round pick for him.

Link?You're crazy if you think they don't want higher picks. While I'll agree that they don't like paying rookies huge money, they'd gladly take a high pick and look to deal it, ala last year to pick up more picks. Basically your saying that they would have rather had the 10 pick last year to take Mayo instead of having the 7th and trading it (along with a 5th rounder) for the 10th an extra 3rd like they did.

Do I need to provide a link when they could clearly draft early in the first but choose not to? They have multiple picks and could do so but that's not in their philosophy.

You're crazy if you actually think they wouldn't want to have a high pick. What has value around the league? The #3 pick or the #34 pick? You don't think the pats could trade the #3, pick up another first rounder and more picks?

They weren't going to get the #3 pick without giving up the #23 pick so it would have been the #3 pick or both the #23 and #34 picks and whatever money they still save to sign someone else

They would have traded Cassel and the 23rd for the 3rd in a heartbeat. With the #3 they could have easily traded down and picked up a lot of picks.Bunch of people grasping at straws for excuses in this thread.

Anyone who ever thought they were going to get a #3 overall doesn't follow football.

 

[Burning Sensation]

SECOND-ROUND PICK FOR CASSEL

Posted by Mike Florio: Saturday, February 28, 2009 1:34 PM

I previously was convinced that the Patriots wouldn't be able to work out a trade sending quarterback Matt Cassel to the Chiefs because I believed that new Chiefs G.M. Scott Pioli and his former colleagues in New England feared the perception that one side got snookered.

There was no such fear, but it won't change the perception that one side got snookered.

Peter King of SI.com (who also does some work for NBC, and pretty much every other media company on the planet) reports that the Chiefs gave up only a second-round draft pick for Cassel.

Wow.

A second-round pick, for a guy who merited a $14.65 million, one-year contract based on his play in 2008.

Let's consider that for a second. Daunte Culpepper with blown-out knee was traded for a second-round pick. A.J. Feeley was traded for a second-round pick.

So, with all due apologies to the Patriots, the current score is Pioli 1, Pats 0.

This guy doesn't realize that the Pats don't want early 1st round extra picks which will only eat up cap space. Late 1st or 2nd round is what the Pats want where they can draft and pay the players less than an early 1st rounder. I don't see how this guy can score the Pats 0 when the Pats want a 2nd or late 1st round pick for him.

Link?You're crazy if you think they don't want higher picks. While I'll agree that they don't like paying rookies huge money, they'd gladly take a high pick and look to deal it, ala last year to pick up more picks. Basically your saying that they would have rather had the 10 pick last year to take Mayo instead of having the 7th and trading it (along with a 5th rounder) for the 10th an extra 3rd like they did.

Do I need to provide a link when they could clearly draft early in the first but choose not to? They have multiple picks and could do so but that's not in their philosophy.

You're crazy if you actually think they wouldn't want to have a high pick. What has value around the league? The #3 pick or the #34 pick? You don't think the pats could trade the #3, pick up another first rounder and more picks?

They weren't going to get the #3 pick without giving up the #23 pick so it would have been the #3 pick or both the #23 and #34 picks and whatever money they still save to sign someone else

They would have traded Cassel and the 23rd for the 3rd in a heartbeat. With the #3 they could have easily traded down and picked up a lot of picks.Bunch of people grasping at straws for excuses in this thread.

Anyone who ever thought they were going to get a #3 overall doesn't follow football.

Anyone who thinks they prefered a 2nd to a 1st is

 

[Chicago Hooligan]

I have to chuckle when people question the Pats philosophy. I wonder how many people have followed the NFL for the last decade when I see people acting like they actually know how to run the Pats better then they have since their first SB win.I am surprised more NFL teams don't follow their philosophy.

what like losing 1st round picks for cheating

 

[Finless]

Possibly one of the greatest moves in the history of organized sports. Bravo New England, bravo.

 

[Burning Sensation]

O'Connell stock just skyrocketed. The only thing in his way from being the starting QB for one of the most productive FF QB spots is a guy whos knee is in worse shape than Caddy Williams.

 

[qimqam]

I am continually amazed at how efficiently the Patriots operate.

I've been saying all along the Pats in no way, shape, or form would get "stuck" with Cassel and that they had a master plan and were running it all along.

So their master plan was to give up their Backup QB (Last years Starting QB) and a starting LB for a 2nd rd pick who very easily could end up being nothing? Doesn't seems like a great master plan to me.

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

I have to chuckle when people question the Pats philosophy. I wonder how many people have followed the NFL for the last decade when I see people acting like they actually know how to run the Pats better then they have since their first SB win.I am surprised more NFL teams don't follow their philosophy.

what like losing 1st round picks for cheating

Pick. Singular. If you're going to live in the past, do so accurately. TIA.

 

[David Yudkin]

I am continually amazed at how efficiently the Patriots operate.

I've been saying all along the Pats in no way, shape, or form would get "stuck" with Cassel and that they had a master plan and were running it all along.

So their master plan was to give up their Backup QB (Last years Starting QB) and a starting LB for a 2nd rd pick who very easily could end up being nothing? Doesn't seems like a great master plan to me.

My point was that at no point was there any real chance that NE would get "stuck" with Cassel. They basically got almost a first round pick for a 7th round backup QB that they wouldn't use and couldn't keep paired with a LB that will be 34 by opening day. Pretty decent ROI considering, even if some people bought the hype that he was worth a couple of first rounders or a Top 5 pick.

 

[Adebisi]

You've got to love it: New England trades a former 7th round pick, their current backup QB, for a first day pick, along with a 34 year old LB. And people post in this thread trying to take shots at the Pats as if they somehow got screwed in this whole deal.

 

[Jason Wood]

Every time I see a QB traded now, I think about how the Eagles FLEECED the Dolphins in the A.J. Feeley deal.

Honestly, if Pioli thinks Cassel is a franchise QB [which he clearly thinks], giving up a 2nd rounder is NOTHING for him, NOTHING. Flip side, one must presume this means a) the Pats are confident in Brady's health and b ) they just got a high 2nd rounder for a guy that legitimately might not have made the Pats roster a year ago if things in camp didn't go a certain way.

 

[Phlash]

I am continually amazed at how efficiently the Patriots operate.

I've been saying all along the Pats in no way, shape, or form would get "stuck" with Cassel and that they had a master plan and were running it all along.

So their master plan was to give up their Backup QB (Last years Starting QB) and a starting LB for a 2nd rd pick who very easily could end up being nothing? Doesn't seems like a great master plan to me.

My point was that at no point was there any real chance that NE would get "stuck" with Cassel.

"Stuck" can also refer to getting less then they wanted for him. "Stuck" can also refer to holding him longer then planned before a deal can be made and having other opportunities (financially speaking) pass you by. [Which they avoided completely]In todays NFL... Cassel was going to be traded if the Pats were determined to do just that.

Pretty sure that by "stuck" David means that he would be on the Patriots roster and not traded. So he's still right.

 

[Lobary]

You've got to love it: New England trades a former 7th round pick, their current backup QB, for a first day pick, along with a 34 year old LB. And people post in this thread trying to take shots at the Pats as if they somehow got screwed in this whole deal.

Not so much that they got screwed but that they didn't do the screwing. A second round pick is a surprisingly low price for Matt Cassel and Mike Vrabel.Lions fans must feel cursed. I bet many of them would've been willing to give up the 33rd pick and more for Cassel.

 

[cstu]

I am continually amazed at how efficiently the Patriots operate.

I've been saying all along the Pats in no way, shape, or form would get "stuck" with Cassel and that they had a master plan and were running it all along.

So their master plan was to give up their Backup QB (Last years Starting QB) and a starting LB for a 2nd rd pick who very easily could end up being nothing? Doesn't seems like a great master plan to me.

They gave up a mediocre LB (at his age) and a free agent QB for a high 2nd.

 

[Ron_Mexico]

Looks like Tyler Thigpen's FF value just went down the drain.

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

You've got to love it: New England trades a former 7th round pick, their current backup QB, for a first day pick, along with a 34 year old LB. And people post in this thread trying to take shots at the Pats as if they somehow got screwed in this whole deal.

Not sure stating a "7th round pick" means anything. As such, Brady is just a "6th round pick".Trading him off for a first round pick would not be a good thing regarldess of his draft positon.

You are correct.Incidentally, many people make this mistake in fantasy as well. "I can't trade him...he was my 2nd rd pick and the guy I'm getting was a 7th rd pick" as if that means anything when the season starts.

 

[puckalicious]

You've got to love it: New England trades a former 7th round pick, their current backup QB, for a first day pick, along with a 34 year old LB. And people post in this thread trying to take shots at the Pats as if they somehow got screwed in this whole deal.

Not so much that they got screwed but that they didn't do the screwing. A second round pick is a surprisingly low price for Matt Cassel and Mike Vrabel.Lions fans must feel cursed. I bet many of them would've been willing to give up the 33rd pick and more for Cassel.

If the choice is between Cassel with the 33rd, or any of the rooks at #1, yeah I'd do it in a heartbeat. I still think the Lions should skip QB, or take a late round stab at one this year. We need to shore up the trenches and focus on D. Next year grab that QB with a top 10 pick because that's where they'll be drafting from.

 

[Footballhead]

For those of you who say we gave up a 2nd for a former 7th and a old LB, think again. The most important position on a team is the QB. It doesn't matter where he is pick; there has been plenty of 1st and 2nd rounder busts and plenty of gems in the later rounds. BUt once you identify him, you keep him or you try to get him. IN Cassel, the Chiefs gets a QB that will be the face of the franchise for years to come. In Vrabel, they get some leadership on the defense. At least the new administration understands veteran leadership is just has important has rookie talents; something Herman Edwards never got it.

 

[encaitar]

Well, the Chiefs just made a great move. Picking up Cassell for their second is what I thought they'd do, but the fact that they got Vrabel thrown in with the deal is just icing. Nothing like getting some good veteran leadership on a young team as a "throw in" on a deal.

Patriots look to be in good position to accomplish their goal of getting younger. I expect them to hit defense early and often in the draft. They could be even better in a couple of years than they are now, and that's a scary prospect. I'm also really surprised the Lions never came into play here. Getting Cassell with their second round pick and picking up Jason Smith with the first and someone like Alex Mack with the 20 would've laid the groundwork for that offense for years to come, especially considering they already have their playmakers at RB and WR. Hindsight, I guess.

 

[Bad_Mo]

ESPN's Chris Mortensen reports that the Patriots turned down a package from the Bucs in a possible three-way Matt Cassel deal that included a first- and third-round pick.

In this scenario, the Patriots would have received the picks, Denver would get Matt Cassel, and Tampa would get Jay Cutler. But there has to be more to the story. Why would the Patriots turn down better picks? One admittedly speculative guess is that the deal with the Chiefs was already verbally agreed to at this point, and the Patriots couldn't back out. Mike Vrabel, after all, was in Kansas City Friday.

Interesting, if this is true.

I imagine the NE bashers can spin this in a negative light somehow. Stupid non-move...they got duped...etc. I bet they stay away from anything remotely tied to keeping their word and not screwing KC over.

 

[NFL Sunday Ticket]

Well, the Chiefs just made a great move. Picking up Cassell for their second is what I thought they'd do, but the fact that they got Vrabel thrown in with the deal is just icing. Nothing like getting some good veteran leadership on a young team as a "throw in" on a deal.Patriots look to be in good position to accomplish their goal of getting younger. I expect them to hit defense early and often in the draft. They could be even better in a couple of years than they are now, and that's a scary prospect. I'm also really surprised the Lions never came into play here. Getting Cassell with their second round pick and picking up Jason Smith with the first and someone like Alex Mack with the 20 would've laid the groundwork for that offense for years to come, especially considering they already have their playmakers at RB and WR. Hindsight, I guess.

i think there were several things that came into play here. i think BB knew they could have gotten more for cassel. i also think he genuinely liked cassel and wanted to send him someplace that would give him the best opportunity to succeed. i also think BB and cassel and cassel's agent discussed where his preferred destination would be. with bowe and gonzo there and pioli at the top, it seems like KC would have been pretty high on his list. throw in the fact that BB also genuinely likes pioli, and the fact that if the pats were going to be involved in free agency this would need to be quick. i still cant understand "throwing" in vrabel however. in the grand scheme of things i think his leadership and knowledge of the system is worth every penny of the $3.5 million.

 

[David Yudkin]

I read somewhere where Vrabel was banged up last year and probably needs some sort of corrective shoulder surgery. The story didn't really delve into what that meant, whether that would prevent Vrabel from playing, or what the recovery time might be. If true, it makes you wonder if he'll be able to pass a physical if his shoulder needs surgery, though . . .

 

[Spike]

Three things:

Why is the pick the Pats got the #34 overall? The Chiefs have the 3rd pick in the first round. Assuming their pick was the 3rd in the second round, wouldn't that make it the #35 overall?

This is not revisionist history, something I've talked about with friends. Cassell didn't do particularly well taking snaps from under center, but in the Shotgun. He'll need to do a LOT of that to be good in KC, imo.

Is there any chance the Chiefs now try to move up from #3 to #2 to get one of the stud OL? I might be wrong, I'm not a Chiefs afficianado, but I thought their OL was not too good.

 

[David Yudkin]

Why is the pick the Pats got the #34 overall? The Chiefs have the 3rd pick in the first round. Assuming their pick was the 3rd in the second round, wouldn't that make it the #35 overall?

KC and STL had the same record. Teams that are tied rotate their order in each round in the draft. Since only those two teams were tied, STL gets the #2 pick this year in odd rounds and KC gets the #2 pick in even rounds.

 

[Spike]

Why is the pick the Pats got the #34 overall? The Chiefs have the 3rd pick in the first round. Assuming their pick was the 3rd in the second round, wouldn't that make it the #35 overall?

KC and STL had the same record. Teams that are tied rotate their order in each round in the draft. Since only those two teams were tied, STL gets the #2 pick this year in odd rounds and KC gets the #2 pick in even rounds.

Ah, thanks! Didn't know that one.

 

[qazqaz11]

I think that under the circumstances NE getting a high 2nd rd pick for Cassell and Vrabel is an excellent deal for both teams. Once Cassell signed the $14 million + franchise tag offer he could pretty much then dictate where he wanted to play. Teams could offer NE the moon for Cassell, but if he tells those teams that he will never sign a contract with them, those offers disappear. Nobody (ok Detroit) would offer NE anything significant for the right to pay a QB $14M to play for 1 yr and then walk away as a FA.

I have no doubt that NE asked Cassell for a list of teams with whom he would be willing to sign a long term contract. This list would then be further narrowed down to teams that a) were interested in signing Cassell b) could agree on the basic parameters of a long term contract and c) give NE the best deal.

NE is obviously very confident that Brady is going to be completely healthy by the beginning of the season or this deal would never have been made. It seems to me thar NE had a choice of keeping Cassell and Vrabel this year or else trading 1 starter and 1 backup, save about $18 million on their salary cap and receive a high 2nd rd draft pick. I may be wrong but it looks like a no brainer to me.

If it took adding Vrabel to the mix to make this trade happen then so be it. I think this is a win-win scenario for both teams.

 

[TheBradyBunch]

The media's really having a field day with this trade (and non-trade). This Jay Mariotti article is titled, "Kansas City's Sweetheart Deal for Cassel Warrants NFL Probe"

 

[King of the Jungle]

The media's really having a field day with this trade (and non-trade). This Jay Mariotti article is titled, "Kansas City's Sweetheart Deal for Cassel Warrants NFL Probe"

So how can we (fans) be certain when a trade has actually happened these days? Is it only when we see that player wearing the other teams jersey that we really know what happened?Since ESPN starting reporting everything they see on the internet, I find it confusing/annoying trying to figure out what is news and what is rumor.

 

[FUBAR]

Three things:

Why is the pick the Pats got the #34 overall? The Chiefs have the 3rd pick in the first round. Assuming their pick was the 3rd in the second round, wouldn't that make it the #35 overall?

This is not revisionist history, something I've talked about with friends. Cassell didn't do particularly well taking snaps from under center, but in the Shotgun. He'll need to do a LOT of that to be good in KC, imo.

Is there any chance the Chiefs now try to move up from #3 to #2 to get one of the stud OL? I might be wrong, I'm not a Chiefs afficianado, but I thought their OL was not too good.

No. Smith, Smith and Monroe (not to mention Oher) are all franchise level OT. If by chance two OT go 1-2 and they don't like the 3rd, Curry or Orakpo will find a KC living to their liking.I am curious if this means LJ and Gonzo stay.

 

[HellToupee]

The media's really having a field day with this trade (and non-trade). This Jay Mariotti article is titled, "Kansas City's Sweetheart Deal for Cassel Warrants NFL Probe"

I wish the NHL investigated the Sharks sweatheart deal swindling of Joe Thornton from the Bruins years ago

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

The media's really having a field day with this trade (and non-trade). This Jay Mariotti article is titled, "Kansas City's Sweetheart Deal for Cassel Warrants NFL Probe"

And the show has reached a new low. BB is now the target of "he took too little" accusations.

 

[Mr. Mojo]

I think Cassell will be mediocre in KC and will be exposed as a product of a great offensive system in NE.

 

[Burning Sensation]

I think Cassell will be mediocre in KC and will be exposed as a product of a great offensive system in NE.

 

[Boston]

I think Cassell will be mediocre in KC and will be exposed as a product of a great offensive system in NE.

I think Scott Pioli has proven that he's one of the top football minds in the NFL and he's not going to give a big contract/give the keys to the franchise to a QB who he saw practice and play on a daily basis unless he was quite sure he could produce at a high level.

 

[Serenity Now]

I think Cassell will be mediocre in KC and will be exposed as a product of a great offensive system in NE.

While I think Cassel has the potential to be much better than mediocre, he did have the benefit of a tremendously good system around him in NE. It couldn't have been a better situation for someone like him to succeed.Keep in mind that many, many people in New England, myself included, thought he should have been cut prior to the season because he looked so bad. And then he ended up taking the team to 11-5. He improved noticeably week to week. Should he go on to have a respectable career as a starter, I think it will far surpass the Tom Brady Cinderella story.

 

[TheBradyBunch]

I think Cassell will be mediocre in KC and will be exposed as a product of a great offensive system in NE.

So, you're expecting that Pioli will trade for "his" qb, yet alter the offensive system now that he's in KC? I could see this argument being valid if Cassel ended up in Minnesota or a team like that...but he'll be walking into the same pass-friendly system that will use the shotgun and 3-4 receivers.

 

[David Yudkin]

Heard this morning that Vrabel was getting cut outright if he didn't go to KC, so he basically was a toss in.

 

[Boston]

Heard this morning that Vrabel was getting cut outright if he didn't go to KC, so he basically was a toss in.

David-I know you thought it may happen in the Cassel deal but like you I do believe you're going to see another deal or two with the Pats obtaining some veterans. Something has to give with that back eight and I don't think the Pats are winging it here.

 

[Spike]

Three things:

Why is the pick the Pats got the #34 overall? The Chiefs have the 3rd pick in the first round. Assuming their pick was the 3rd in the second round, wouldn't that make it the #35 overall?

This is not revisionist history, something I've talked about with friends. Cassell didn't do particularly well taking snaps from under center, but in the Shotgun. He'll need to do a LOT of that to be good in KC, imo.

Is there any chance the Chiefs now try to move up from #3 to #2 to get one of the stud OL? I might be wrong, I'm not a Chiefs afficianado, but I thought their OL was not too good.

No. Smith, Smith and Monroe (not to mention Oher) are all franchise level OT. If by chance two OT go 1-2 and they don't like the 3rd, Curry or Orakpo will find a KC living to their liking.I am curious if this means LJ and Gonzo stay.

From everything I saw about the Combine, Andre Smith really shot himself in the foot with his actions and is no longer considered a franchise level OT. Also, it seems like Oher took a hit a few months back because I've not seen him spoken of as at the level of Smith and Monroe.

 

[ROCKET]

Heard this morning that Vrabel was getting cut outright if he didn't go to KC, so he basically was a toss in.

I believe if we cut him it would have been a 1 mil cap hit and by trading him we avoid the hit? And BB didn't want to take a chance he'd end up playing in the division, especially NY.

 

[nerangers]

Heard this morning that Vrabel was getting cut outright if he didn't go to KC, so he basically was a toss in.

Oh course this was said after the fact...same as the three way trade rumor that would have netted a 1st and 3rd round pick.In a nutshell, people are going to feel that they should have gotten more in this deal (myself included). Kellen Winsow got a 2nd and a 5th. You would have to think that a starting QB would have netted more. Fully understand you get what the market can get you, but it is hard to believe that a team like the Lions wouldn't have done that same deal for their 20th pick from the Cowboys.

 

[Lobary]

Heard this morning that Vrabel was getting cut outright if he didn't go to KC, so he basically was a toss in.

Oh course this was said after the fact...same as the three way trade rumor that would have netted a 1st and 3rd round pick.In a nutshell, people are going to feel that they should have gotten more in this deal (myself included). Kellen Winsow got a 2nd and a 5th. You would have to think that a starting QB would have netted more. Fully understand you get what the market can get you, but it is hard to believe that a team like the Lions wouldn't have done that same deal for their 20th pick from the Cowboys.

Or for those who cling to the bizarre notion that NE covets second round picks over first rounders, the Lions surely would've surrendered the #33 pick and a future second-rounder for Cassel.