Chad Johnson has a torn labrum in his shoulder (1 Viewer)

[tonydead]

I got to wonder why this information is even being released. I mean why can't they call it a sprained shoulder and move forward? Why give your opponents anything to gun for?Very odd, if you ask me.

Why is he in the harness and doing push up? If he's fine and can do push ups he doesn't really need the harness does he? The doctor wouldn't have prescribed both.

 

[Couch Potato]

I got to wonder why this information is even being released. I mean why can't they call it a sprained shoulder and move forward? Why give your opponents anything to gun for?Very odd, if you ask me.

Why is he in the harness and doing push up? If he's fine and can do push ups he doesn't really need the harness does he? The doctor wouldn't have prescribed both.

The doctor didn't prescribe the push ups. He did them for the media because he's an attention whore.

 

[red]

I got to wonder why this information is even being released. I mean why can't they call it a sprained shoulder and move forward? Why give your opponents anything to gun for?Very odd, if you ask me.

Why is he in the harness and doing push up? If he's fine and can do push ups he doesn't really need the harness does he? The doctor wouldn't have prescribed both.

immobilization helps prevent re-dislocation. In patients under 30 years old, the shoulder is immobilized for three weeks. In patients over 30 years old, the rate of re-dislocation is lower and early mobilization (after 1 week) is needed to limit joint stiffness. Gentle ROM exercises are performed during the immobilization period to reduce the risk of frozen shoulder. recurrent dislocation, the most common complication of shoulder dislocation, may be less likely if the shoulder is immobilized in 10 degrees of external rotation (i.e. shoulder on hip and hand slightly rotated out from the body), as opposed to the traditional approach to immobilization using internal rotation. harnesses are often needed to get the arm in that position.

 

[Gr00vus]

Hey Red, while you're here, I've got this rash...

 

[theplayer11]

Chad is a physical specimin in top notch condition. I'm sure he should be able to do the same (especially since he was doing pushups in front of reporters).

Certainly, I haven't evaluated him, and I don't know. But, I'd much rather see him demonstrate that he can lift weights above his head over doing a few push-ups while keeping his arms at/below shoulder level. Again, as has been pointed out here by folks more expert than me, there's a lot of variability here with respect to this kind of an injury. I'm just not convinced by this that he's alright.

Pushups is primarily a deltoid and tricep workout. When you do pushups (or even bench press for that matter), it works your chest, but your chest muslces actually have ZERO to do with puching/lifting the weight. It is all your triceps and deltoids (shoulders) that are pushing the weight, your chest just gets a workout due to the fact that your chest muscles are the muscles taking the impact of the weight pushing back down on your body. The pressure pushing back is what tears the muscle fibers in your chest thus making your chest soar and in turn, grow when the fibers heal.The fact that he was doing pushups is very telling as 50% of a pushup is your shoulder muscles and shoulder strength.

Does this mean he is 100% fine? No it doesn't. However, it is still relevant.

agreed..think the Patriots would have released this? Makes no sense...

 

[red]

Hey Red, while you're here, I've got this rash...

stop going to tijuana for the "donkey show"

 

[tonydead]

I got to wonder why this information is even being released. I mean why can't they call it a sprained shoulder and move forward? Why give your opponents anything to gun for?Very odd, if you ask me.

Why is he in the harness and doing push up? If he's fine and can do push ups he doesn't really need the harness does he? The doctor wouldn't have prescribed both.

The doctor didn't prescribe the push ups. He did them for the media because he's an attention whore.

That's my point, and I usually like Chad, but if he's dislocated his shoulder he's better off not doing push ups for a few weeks or he will dislocate it again. Even more risk because of the Chad factor I guess.

 

[Gr00vus]

Hey Red, while you're here, I've got this rash...

stop going to tijuana for the "donkey show"

Oh man! I suppose next you'll be telling me I have to stop drinking out of the beer bottles the ladies at the show pick up with their "flowers" too?

 

[Big Score]

Hey Red, while you're here, I've got this rash...

stop going to tijuana for the "donkey show"

 

[Hawk Fan]

Any doctors in the house? How will this injury affect him?

whenever someone dislocates their shoulder, by definition they have a torn rotator cuff. the rotator cuff is a series of tendons that hold the humerus (arm bone) in place with the scapula (shoulder joint). the labrum is cartilage used to help support the shoulder joint because it's a rather shallow joint (i.e. the boney articulations are not well connected together). not all labral injuries require surgery. in fact, most labral tears do not require surgery. in patients who have persistent symptoms despite more conservative treatments, surgery may be necessary. i have seen many people who have sustained labral tears only to undergo surgery YEARS after the initial injury. they were still able to do all their daily activities including throwing and even weight lifting (in the case of one of my friends). after the surgery, they of course, need to rest the shoulder for a good couple of weeks before resuming throwing, etc.what does this mean for CJ. i suspect it's a minor tear that is not causing him too much limitation. he'll play, but if it starts to limit his ability to catch or take a hit, then he'll likely require surgery. my guess AND IT'S ONLY A GUESS is that he'll play and be fine unless he dislocates his shoulder again and injurs it further.

This is not correct. I'm a radiologist and read MRIs and do arthrograms. You can dislocate your shoulder without tearing your rotator cuff. Chronic dislocations can weaken the rotator cuff. Strengthening the rotator cuff stabilizes the shoulder joint and can help prevent future dislocations. You can also tear your labrum without tearing your rotator cuff (this is common in athletes). There are tons of classifications for labral tears, including many types of SLAP (superior labrum- anterior to posterior) tears. These are common in overhand athletes (pitchers, tennis, etc). The shoulder can dislocate in at least 3 ways, but by far most common is anterior-inferiorly. The labrum is a ring (more oval) of cartilage that lines the glenoid (part of the scapula) to deepen the ball and socket joint of the shoulder and keep the humerus located. If you tear your anterior-inferior labrum (Bankart lesion) you may be predisposed to future anterior dislocations. A "bony" Bankart lesion is a tear of the labrum and fracture of the glenoid.Bottom line, there's a huge range of types and severity of labral tears. He may have a small, partial tear now that they worry could become larger with injury. I diagnosed myself with a small labral tear that I probably got from weight lifting. My shoulder would click and I had pain but didn't dislocate. I just did some conservative therapy and strengthened my rotator cuff, and I have no problems. I've also seen plenty of catastrophic tears which require surgery.

 

[southeastjerome]

The Bengals offense as a whole scares the bejesus out of me this year.

 

[cobalt_27]

The Bengals offense as a whole scares the bejesus out of me this year.

This is pretty-much the take-home message that is punctuated by CJ's most recent diagnosis.

 

[SCT]

Chad is a physical specimin in top notch condition. I'm sure he should be able to do the same (especially since he was doing pushups in front of reporters).

Certainly, I haven't evaluated him, and I don't know. But, I'd much rather see him demonstrate that he can lift weights above his head over doing a few push-ups while keeping his arms at/below shoulder level. Again, as has been pointed out here by folks more expert than me, there's a lot of variability here with respect to this kind of an injury. I'm just not convinced by this that he's alright.

Pushups is primarily a deltoid and tricep workout. When you do pushups (or even bench press for that matter), it works your chest, but your chest muslces actually have ZERO to do with puching/lifting the weight. It is all your triceps and deltoids (shoulders) that are pushing the weight, your chest just gets a workout due to the fact that your chest muscles are the muscles taking the impact of the weight pushing back down on your body. The pressure pushing back is what tears the muscle fibers in your chest thus making your chest soar and in turn, grow when the fibers heal.The fact that he was doing pushups is very telling as 50% of a pushup is your shoulder muscles and shoulder strength.

Does this mean he is 100% fine? No it doesn't. However, it is still relevant.

Link?

 

[SCT]

Great info. from Dr. Red. Hopefully he's not on his laptop next to the OR table.

 

[cobalt_27]

Chad is a physical specimin in top notch condition. I'm sure he should be able to do the same (especially since he was doing pushups in front of reporters).

Certainly, I haven't evaluated him, and I don't know. But, I'd much rather see him demonstrate that he can lift weights above his head over doing a few push-ups while keeping his arms at/below shoulder level. Again, as has been pointed out here by folks more expert than me, there's a lot of variability here with respect to this kind of an injury. I'm just not convinced by this that he's alright.

Pushups is primarily a deltoid and tricep workout. When you do pushups (or even bench press for that matter), it works your chest, but your chest muslces actually have ZERO to do with puching/lifting the weight. It is all your triceps and deltoids (shoulders) that are pushing the weight, your chest just gets a workout due to the fact that your chest muscles are the muscles taking the impact of the weight pushing back down on your body. The pressure pushing back is what tears the muscle fibers in your chest thus making your chest soar and in turn, grow when the fibers heal.The fact that he was doing pushups is very telling as 50% of a pushup is your shoulder muscles and shoulder strength.

Does this mean he is 100% fine? No it doesn't. However, it is still relevant.

Link?

Exactly.Nevermind the fact that we're not really concerned with the integrity of his shoulder muscles, per se.

 

[Ozymandias]

Chad is a physical specimin in top notch condition. I'm sure he should be able to do the same (especially since he was doing pushups in front of reporters).

Certainly, I haven't evaluated him, and I don't know. But, I'd much rather see him demonstrate that he can lift weights above his head over doing a few push-ups while keeping his arms at/below shoulder level. Again, as has been pointed out here by folks more expert than me, there's a lot of variability here with respect to this kind of an injury. I'm just not convinced by this that he's alright.

Pushups is primarily a deltoid and tricep workout. When you do pushups (or even bench press for that matter), it works your chest, but your chest muslces actually have ZERO to do with puching/lifting the weight. It is all your triceps and deltoids (shoulders) that are pushing the weight, your chest just gets a workout due to the fact that your chest muscles are the muscles taking the impact of the weight pushing back down on your body. The pressure pushing back is what tears the muscle fibers in your chest thus making your chest soar and in turn, grow when the fibers heal.The fact that he was doing pushups is very telling as 50% of a pushup is your shoulder muscles and shoulder strength.

Does this mean he is 100% fine? No it doesn't. However, it is still relevant.

Maybe he needs a boob job. My girlfriend got one and it made her chest soar.

 

[McBokonon]

Maybe he needs a boob job. My girlfriend got one and it made her chest soar.

Her boobs can fly?

 

[redjake]

I have seen my fair share of labrum repairs, mostly in pitchers and other baseball players.

It will have an effect on his ROM but with the proper protective gear on, he should be fine. However, don't expect to see him going out of his ways on blocking downfield.

Tat

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post Today, 02:14 PM

Post #20

Has-been punter

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Group: Members

Joined: 14-April 03

From: Birmingham, AL

Member No.: 373

Dr. Andrews? What are you doing here?

His disappearance says it all. Stay away from my pitchers, Tat. Or should I say, JAMES!!!!!

 

[finnref]

See other thread: Chand Johnson, injury cause for concern?

 

[finnref]

I got to wonder why this information is even being released. I mean why can't they call it a sprained shoulder and move forward? Why give your opponents anything to gun for?Very odd, if you ask me.

Why is he in the harness and doing push up? If he's fine and can do push ups he doesn't really need the harness does he? The doctor wouldn't have prescribed both.

immobilization helps prevent re-dislocation. In patients under 30 years old, the shoulder is immobilized for three weeks. In patients over 30 years old, the rate of re-dislocation is lower and early mobilization (after 1 week) is needed to limit joint stiffness. Gentle ROM exercises are performed during the immobilization period to reduce the risk of frozen shoulder. recurrent dislocation, the most common complication of shoulder dislocation, may be less likely if the shoulder is immobilized in 10 degrees of external rotation (i.e. shoulder on hip and hand slightly rotated out from the body), as opposed to the traditional approach to immobilization using internal rotation. harnesses are often needed to get the arm in that position.

Immobilization after acute dislocation, usually done for three weeks in the past, has been proven ineffectal in preventing recurrent dislocations.

 

[JMJ]

Chad is a physical specimin in top notch condition. I'm sure he should be able to do the same (especially since he was doing pushups in front of reporters).

Certainly, I haven't evaluated him, and I don't know. But, I'd much rather see him demonstrate that he can lift weights above his head over doing a few push-ups while keeping his arms at/below shoulder level. Again, as has been pointed out here by folks more expert than me, there's a lot of variability here with respect to this kind of an injury. I'm just not convinced by this that he's alright.

Pushups is primarily a deltoid and tricep workout. When you do pushups (or even bench press for that matter), it works your chest, but your chest muslces actually have ZERO to do with puching/lifting the weight. It is all your triceps and deltoids (shoulders) that are pushing the weight, your chest just gets a workout due to the fact that your chest muscles are the muscles taking the impact of the weight pushing back down on your body. The pressure pushing back is what tears the muscle fibers in your chest thus making your chest soar and in turn, grow when the fibers heal.The fact that he was doing pushups is very telling as 50% of a pushup is your shoulder muscles and shoulder strength.

Does this mean he is 100% fine? No it doesn't. However, it is still relevant.

Link?

You serious?

 

[Steel Dillo]

Any doctors in the house? How will this injury affect him?

I played a football season, a wrestling season, and 2 baseball seasons (1 Sr. year of HS, 1 freshman year of college) with a torn labrum. It hurts when you throw something and nothing more. I had zero pain swinging a bat with all my strength, zero pain diving and extending for balls in the infield, I even had no problem weightlifting other than doing incline flat bench (I was still able to do incline dumbells).Chad should be fine unless he is a wimp ... which he isn't. Like the original post said, he dropped down and did pushups and Ellis Hobbs (a defensive player who hits people with his shoulder) played a whole season with it.Use this as an opportunity to get CJ below market value.

I went through the same injury & the only thing it caused was pain when I throw over handed (football/softall). It had no effect on anything else.

 

[the spanker]

Any doctors in the house? How will this injury affect him?

I played a football season, a wrestling season, and 2 baseball seasons (1 Sr. year of HS, 1 freshman year of college) with a torn labrum. It hurts when you throw something and nothing more. I had zero pain swinging a bat with all my strength, zero pain diving and extending for balls in the infield, I even had no problem weightlifting other than doing incline flat bench (I was still able to do incline dumbells).Chad should be fine unless he is a wimp ... which he isn't. Like the original post said, he dropped down and did pushups and Ellis Hobbs (a defensive player who hits people with his shoulder) played a whole season with it.Use this as an opportunity to get CJ below market value.

I went through the same injury & the only thing it caused was pain when I throw over handed (football/softall). It had no effect on anything else.

So CJ won't have to catch overhanded then?

 

[JMJ]

Any doctors in the house? How will this injury affect him?

I played a football season, a wrestling season, and 2 baseball seasons (1 Sr. year of HS, 1 freshman year of college) with a torn labrum. It hurts when you throw something and nothing more. I had zero pain swinging a bat with all my strength, zero pain diving and extending for balls in the infield, I even had no problem weightlifting other than doing incline flat bench (I was still able to do incline dumbells).Chad should be fine unless he is a wimp ... which he isn't. Like the original post said, he dropped down and did pushups and Ellis Hobbs (a defensive player who hits people with his shoulder) played a whole season with it.Use this as an opportunity to get CJ below market value.

I went through the same injury & the only thing it caused was pain when I throw over handed (football/softall). It had no effect on anything else.

So CJ won't have to catch overhanded then?

Raising your arm isn't an issue, and doing a throwing motion without weight (the football or baseball) in your hand doens't hurt either. Is Chad going to be catching passes then throwing them back to Palmer? No, he isn't. He'll be fine.

 

[SCT]

Chad is a physical specimin in top notch condition. I'm sure he should be able to do the same (especially since he was doing pushups in front of reporters).

Certainly, I haven't evaluated him, and I don't know. But, I'd much rather see him demonstrate that he can lift weights above his head over doing a few push-ups while keeping his arms at/below shoulder level. Again, as has been pointed out here by folks more expert than me, there's a lot of variability here with respect to this kind of an injury. I'm just not convinced by this that he's alright.

Pushups is primarily a deltoid and tricep workout. When you do pushups (or even bench press for that matter), it works your chest, but your chest muslces actually have ZERO to do with puching/lifting the weight. It is all your triceps and deltoids (shoulders) that are pushing the weight, your chest just gets a workout due to the fact that your chest muscles are the muscles taking the impact of the weight pushing back down on your body. The pressure pushing back is what tears the muscle fibers in your chest thus making your chest soar and in turn, grow when the fibers heal.The fact that he was doing pushups is very telling as 50% of a pushup is your shoulder muscles and shoulder strength.

Does this mean he is 100% fine? No it doesn't. However, it is still relevant.

Link?

You serious?

No. Just think you're wrong and wanted to follow up.

 

[JMJ]

Chad is a physical specimin in top notch condition. I'm sure he should be able to do the same (especially since he was doing pushups in front of reporters).

Certainly, I haven't evaluated him, and I don't know. But, I'd much rather see him demonstrate that he can lift weights above his head over doing a few push-ups while keeping his arms at/below shoulder level. Again, as has been pointed out here by folks more expert than me, there's a lot of variability here with respect to this kind of an injury. I'm just not convinced by this that he's alright.

Pushups is primarily a deltoid and tricep workout. When you do pushups (or even bench press for that matter), it works your chest, but your chest muslces actually have ZERO to do with puching/lifting the weight. It is all your triceps and deltoids (shoulders) that are pushing the weight, your chest just gets a workout due to the fact that your chest muscles are the muscles taking the impact of the weight pushing back down on your body. The pressure pushing back is what tears the muscle fibers in your chest thus making your chest soar and in turn, grow when the fibers heal.The fact that he was doing pushups is very telling as 50% of a pushup is your shoulder muscles and shoulder strength.

Does this mean he is 100% fine? No it doesn't. However, it is still relevant.

Link?

You serious?

No. Just think you're wrong and wanted to follow up.

So when you're doing a push up, do you really think it is your pectoral muscles that is pushing the weight up? Or do you think it is your shoulders and triceps pushing it and your pectoral muscle is just absorbing the pressure of the 315 lbs pushing back down on your body while your arms push it up?Your pectoral muscle does not actually do the pushing, but in turn, it is what gets worked out. Follow me?

 

[Ketamine Dreams]

I work with an orthopedist who specializes in shoulders. I think he's in the ORs tomorrow. I'll ask him, especially since I own Ocho in my dynasty league.

 

[sportsphysio]

Any doctors in the house? How will this injury affect him?

whenever someone dislocates their shoulder, by definition they have a torn rotator cuff. the rotator cuff is a series of tendons that hold the humerus (arm bone) in place with the scapula (shoulder joint). the labrum is cartilage used to help support the shoulder joint because it's a rather shallow joint (i.e. the boney articulations are not well connected together). not all labral injuries require surgery. in fact, most labral tears do not require surgery. in patients who have persistent symptoms despite more conservative treatments, surgery may be necessary. i have seen many people who have sustained labral tears only to undergo surgery YEARS after the initial injury. they were still able to do all their daily activities including throwing and even weight lifting (in the case of one of my friends). after the surgery, they of course, need to rest the shoulder for a good couple of weeks before resuming throwing, etc.what does this mean for CJ. i suspect it's a minor tear that is not causing him too much limitation. he'll play, but if it starts to limit his ability to catch or take a hit, then he'll likely require surgery. my guess AND IT'S ONLY A GUESS is that he'll play and be fine unless he dislocates his shoulder again and injurs it further.

This is not correct. I'm a radiologist and read MRIs and do arthrograms. You can dislocate your shoulder without tearing your rotator cuff. Chronic dislocations can weaken the rotator cuff. Strengthening the rotator cuff stabilizes the shoulder joint and can help prevent future dislocations. You can also tear your labrum without tearing your rotator cuff (this is common in athletes). There are tons of classifications for labral tears, including many types of SLAP (superior labrum- anterior to posterior) tears. These are common in overhand athletes (pitchers, tennis, etc). The shoulder can dislocate in at least 3 ways, but by far most common is anterior-inferiorly. The labrum is a ring (more oval) of cartilage that lines the glenoid (part of the scapula) to deepen the ball and socket joint of the shoulder and keep the humerus located. If you tear your anterior-inferior labrum (Bankart lesion) you may be predisposed to future anterior dislocations. A "bony" Bankart lesion is a tear of the labrum and fracture of the glenoid.Bottom line, there's a huge range of types and severity of labral tears. He may have a small, partial tear now that they worry could become larger with injury. I diagnosed myself with a small labral tear that I probably got from weight lifting. My shoulder would click and I had pain but didn't dislocate. I just did some conservative therapy and strengthened my rotator cuff, and I have no problems. I've also seen plenty of catastrophic tears which require surgery.

Hawk fan -- excellent post. I've been in sports med for 15 years, and was also going to clarify some of the inaccuracies that have been mentioned. Rotator cuff tears and labral tears are two totally separate entities. Although it is possible that a rotator cuff tear can occur during the trauma associated with a labral tear, it is totally inaccurate to state that a dislocation "definition" involves rotator cuff pathology. The presence of a significant rotator cuff tear would escalate the severity of this type of injury exponentially. A word of caution: do not let the "show" that CJ put on by doing push ups give anyone a false sense of security. If he dislocated his shoulder in the manner that is most common, which would result in damage to the anterior aspect (front) of his labrum, push-ups would not present as much of a problem (a push up will place excessive stress on the posterior, or back, aspect of the labrum instead). The potential problem that he will face is when he has to reach behind him for a pass, or he stretches out / lays out for a pass with his arms in front of him as he lands on the ground; those 2 motions will cause potential reinjury, with the second mechanism probably causing further injury.

IMO -- I'm staying away from him this year. While he may do fine, my feeling is that he will not have the mobility to make the difficult catches, and he is one wrong move from a season ending injury.

 

[footballnerd]

Maybe this will prevent him from patting himself on the back so much.

He's able to do that with either arm. A very, very talented man.

So he's amphibious? Damn!

No you fool. Amphibious is when you can write with either hand. He's ambiguous.

Both you guys are off. He's ambivalent.

And he about to be amputated (after his first hit)

 

[JMJ]

Any doctors in the house? How will this injury affect him?

whenever someone dislocates their shoulder, by definition they have a torn rotator cuff. the rotator cuff is a series of tendons that hold the humerus (arm bone) in place with the scapula (shoulder joint). the labrum is cartilage used to help support the shoulder joint because it's a rather shallow joint (i.e. the boney articulations are not well connected together). not all labral injuries require surgery. in fact, most labral tears do not require surgery. in patients who have persistent symptoms despite more conservative treatments, surgery may be necessary. i have seen many people who have sustained labral tears only to undergo surgery YEARS after the initial injury. they were still able to do all their daily activities including throwing and even weight lifting (in the case of one of my friends). after the surgery, they of course, need to rest the shoulder for a good couple of weeks before resuming throwing, etc.what does this mean for CJ. i suspect it's a minor tear that is not causing him too much limitation. he'll play, but if it starts to limit his ability to catch or take a hit, then he'll likely require surgery. my guess AND IT'S ONLY A GUESS is that he'll play and be fine unless he dislocates his shoulder again and injurs it further.

This is not correct. I'm a radiologist and read MRIs and do arthrograms. You can dislocate your shoulder without tearing your rotator cuff. Chronic dislocations can weaken the rotator cuff. Strengthening the rotator cuff stabilizes the shoulder joint and can help prevent future dislocations. You can also tear your labrum without tearing your rotator cuff (this is common in athletes). There are tons of classifications for labral tears, including many types of SLAP (superior labrum- anterior to posterior) tears. These are common in overhand athletes (pitchers, tennis, etc). The shoulder can dislocate in at least 3 ways, but by far most common is anterior-inferiorly. The labrum is a ring (more oval) of cartilage that lines the glenoid (part of the scapula) to deepen the ball and socket joint of the shoulder and keep the humerus located. If you tear your anterior-inferior labrum (Bankart lesion) you may be predisposed to future anterior dislocations. A "bony" Bankart lesion is a tear of the labrum and fracture of the glenoid.Bottom line, there's a huge range of types and severity of labral tears. He may have a small, partial tear now that they worry could become larger with injury. I diagnosed myself with a small labral tear that I probably got from weight lifting. My shoulder would click and I had pain but didn't dislocate. I just did some conservative therapy and strengthened my rotator cuff, and I have no problems. I've also seen plenty of catastrophic tears which require surgery.

Hawk fan -- excellent post. I've been in sports med for 15 years, and was also going to clarify some of the inaccuracies that have been mentioned. Rotator cuff tears and labral tears are two totally separate entities. Although it is possible that a rotator cuff tear can occur during the trauma associated with a labral tear, it is totally inaccurate to state that a dislocation "definition" involves rotator cuff pathology. The presence of a significant rotator cuff tear would escalate the severity of this type of injury exponentially. A word of caution: do not let the "show" that CJ put on by doing push ups give anyone a false sense of security. If he dislocated his shoulder in the manner that is most common, which would result in damage to the anterior aspect (front) of his labrum, push-ups would not present as much of a problem (a push up will place excessive stress on the posterior, or back, aspect of the labrum instead). The potential problem that he will face is when he has to reach behind him for a pass, or he stretches out / lays out for a pass with his arms in front of him as he lands on the ground; those 2 motions will cause potential reinjury, with the second mechanism probably causing further injury.

IMO -- I'm staying away from him this year. While he may do fine, my feeling is that he will not have the mobility to make the difficult catches, and he is one wrong move from a season ending injury.

How are these bolded comments any different than any other player in the NFL?

 

[the spanker]

Any doctors in the house? How will this injury affect him?

whenever someone dislocates their shoulder, by definition they have a torn rotator cuff. the rotator cuff is a series of tendons that hold the humerus (arm bone) in place with the scapula (shoulder joint). the labrum is cartilage used to help support the shoulder joint because it's a rather shallow joint (i.e. the boney articulations are not well connected together). not all labral injuries require surgery. in fact, most labral tears do not require surgery. in patients who have persistent symptoms despite more conservative treatments, surgery may be necessary. i have seen many people who have sustained labral tears only to undergo surgery YEARS after the initial injury. they were still able to do all their daily activities including throwing and even weight lifting (in the case of one of my friends). after the surgery, they of course, need to rest the shoulder for a good couple of weeks before resuming throwing, etc.what does this mean for CJ. i suspect it's a minor tear that is not causing him too much limitation. he'll play, but if it starts to limit his ability to catch or take a hit, then he'll likely require surgery. my guess AND IT'S ONLY A GUESS is that he'll play and be fine unless he dislocates his shoulder again and injurs it further.

This is not correct. I'm a radiologist and read MRIs and do arthrograms. You can dislocate your shoulder without tearing your rotator cuff. Chronic dislocations can weaken the rotator cuff. Strengthening the rotator cuff stabilizes the shoulder joint and can help prevent future dislocations. You can also tear your labrum without tearing your rotator cuff (this is common in athletes). There are tons of classifications for labral tears, including many types of SLAP (superior labrum- anterior to posterior) tears. These are common in overhand athletes (pitchers, tennis, etc). The shoulder can dislocate in at least 3 ways, but by far most common is anterior-inferiorly. The labrum is a ring (more oval) of cartilage that lines the glenoid (part of the scapula) to deepen the ball and socket joint of the shoulder and keep the humerus located. If you tear your anterior-inferior labrum (Bankart lesion) you may be predisposed to future anterior dislocations. A "bony" Bankart lesion is a tear of the labrum and fracture of the glenoid.Bottom line, there's a huge range of types and severity of labral tears. He may have a small, partial tear now that they worry could become larger with injury. I diagnosed myself with a small labral tear that I probably got from weight lifting. My shoulder would click and I had pain but didn't dislocate. I just did some conservative therapy and strengthened my rotator cuff, and I have no problems. I've also seen plenty of catastrophic tears which require surgery.

Hawk fan -- excellent post. I've been in sports med for 15 years, and was also going to clarify some of the inaccuracies that have been mentioned. Rotator cuff tears and labral tears are two totally separate entities. Although it is possible that a rotator cuff tear can occur during the trauma associated with a labral tear, it is totally inaccurate to state that a dislocation "definition" involves rotator cuff pathology. The presence of a significant rotator cuff tear would escalate the severity of this type of injury exponentially. A word of caution: do not let the "show" that CJ put on by doing push ups give anyone a false sense of security. If he dislocated his shoulder in the manner that is most common, which would result in damage to the anterior aspect (front) of his labrum, push-ups would not present as much of a problem (a push up will place excessive stress on the posterior, or back, aspect of the labrum instead). The potential problem that he will face is when he has to reach behind him for a pass, or he stretches out / lays out for a pass with his arms in front of him as he lands on the ground; those 2 motions will cause potential reinjury, with the second mechanism probably causing further injury.

IMO -- I'm staying away from him this year. While he may do fine, my feeling is that he will not have the mobility to make the difficult catches, and he is one wrong move from a season ending injury.

This is the over-handed stuff I was talking about earlier.

 

[Xue]

So when you're doing a push up, do you really think it is your pectoral muscles that is pushing the weight up? Or do you think it is your shoulders and triceps pushing it and your pectoral muscle is just absorbing the pressure of the 315 lbs pushing back down on your body while your arms push it up?Your pectoral muscle does not actually do the pushing, but in turn, it is what gets worked out. Follow me?

The bones do the "pushing". The muscles do the "pulling". What does it mean when a muscles "absorbs" weight? What kind of contraction is that? You're telling me all the pectorals are doing is a isometric contraction and is not shortening and lengthening in order to transversely adduct/flex the humerus?

 

[Rhythmdoctor]

Any doctors in the house? How will this injury affect him?

whenever someone dislocates their shoulder, by definition they have a torn rotator cuff. the rotator cuff is a series of tendons that hold the humerus (arm bone) in place with the scapula (shoulder joint). the labrum is cartilage used to help support the shoulder joint because it's a rather shallow joint (i.e. the boney articulations are not well connected together). not all labral injuries require surgery. in fact, most labral tears do not require surgery. in patients who have persistent symptoms despite more conservative treatments, surgery may be necessary. i have seen many people who have sustained labral tears only to undergo surgery YEARS after the initial injury. they were still able to do all their daily activities including throwing and even weight lifting (in the case of one of my friends). after the surgery, they of course, need to rest the shoulder for a good couple of weeks before resuming throwing, etc.what does this mean for CJ. i suspect it's a minor tear that is not causing him too much limitation. he'll play, but if it starts to limit his ability to catch or take a hit, then he'll likely require surgery. my guess AND IT'S ONLY A GUESS is that he'll play and be fine unless he dislocates his shoulder again and injurs it further.

This is not correct. I'm a radiologist and read MRIs and do arthrograms. You can dislocate your shoulder without tearing your rotator cuff. Chronic dislocations can weaken the rotator cuff. Strengthening the rotator cuff stabilizes the shoulder joint and can help prevent future dislocations. You can also tear your labrum without tearing your rotator cuff (this is common in athletes). There are tons of classifications for labral tears, including many types of SLAP (superior labrum- anterior to posterior) tears. These are common in overhand athletes (pitchers, tennis, etc). The shoulder can dislocate in at least 3 ways, but by far most common is anterior-inferiorly. The labrum is a ring (more oval) of cartilage that lines the glenoid (part of the scapula) to deepen the ball and socket joint of the shoulder and keep the humerus located. If you tear your anterior-inferior labrum (Bankart lesion) you may be predisposed to future anterior dislocations. A "bony" Bankart lesion is a tear of the labrum and fracture of the glenoid.Bottom line, there's a huge range of types and severity of labral tears. He may have a small, partial tear now that they worry could become larger with injury. I diagnosed myself with a small labral tear that I probably got from weight lifting. My shoulder would click and I had pain but didn't dislocate. I just did some conservative therapy and strengthened my rotator cuff, and I have no problems. I've also seen plenty of catastrophic tears which require surgery.

Hawk fan -- excellent post. I've been in sports med for 15 years, and was also going to clarify some of the inaccuracies that have been mentioned. Rotator cuff tears and labral tears are two totally separate entities. Although it is possible that a rotator cuff tear can occur during the trauma associated with a labral tear, it is totally inaccurate to state that a dislocation "definition" involves rotator cuff pathology. The presence of a significant rotator cuff tear would escalate the severity of this type of injury exponentially. A word of caution: do not let the "show" that CJ put on by doing push ups give anyone a false sense of security. If he dislocated his shoulder in the manner that is most common, which would result in damage to the anterior aspect (front) of his labrum, push-ups would not present as much of a problem (a push up will place excessive stress on the posterior, or back, aspect of the labrum instead). The potential problem that he will face is when he has to reach behind him for a pass, or he stretches out / lays out for a pass with his arms in front of him as he lands on the ground; those 2 motions will cause potential reinjury, with the second mechanism probably causing further injury.

IMO -- I'm staying away from him this year. While he may do fine, my feeling is that he will not have the mobility to make the difficult catches, and he is one wrong move from a season ending injury.

How are these bolded comments any different than any other player in the NFL?

My guess is that all other players in the NFL don't have the injury that CJ currently has. I believe the poster of those comments was trying to say those movements will cause pain and possibly worsen the injury.

 

[sportsphysio]

Any doctors in the house? How will this injury affect him?

whenever someone dislocates their shoulder, by definition they have a torn rotator cuff. the rotator cuff is a series of tendons that hold the humerus (arm bone) in place with the scapula (shoulder joint). the labrum is cartilage used to help support the shoulder joint because it's a rather shallow joint (i.e. the boney articulations are not well connected together). not all labral injuries require surgery. in fact, most labral tears do not require surgery. in patients who have persistent symptoms despite more conservative treatments, surgery may be necessary. i have seen many people who have sustained labral tears only to undergo surgery YEARS after the initial injury. they were still able to do all their daily activities including throwing and even weight lifting (in the case of one of my friends). after the surgery, they of course, need to rest the shoulder for a good couple of weeks before resuming throwing, etc.what does this mean for CJ. i suspect it's a minor tear that is not causing him too much limitation. he'll play, but if it starts to limit his ability to catch or take a hit, then he'll likely require surgery. my guess AND IT'S ONLY A GUESS is that he'll play and be fine unless he dislocates his shoulder again and injurs it further.

This is not correct. I'm a radiologist and read MRIs and do arthrograms. You can dislocate your shoulder without tearing your rotator cuff. Chronic dislocations can weaken the rotator cuff. Strengthening the rotator cuff stabilizes the shoulder joint and can help prevent future dislocations. You can also tear your labrum without tearing your rotator cuff (this is common in athletes). There are tons of classifications for labral tears, including many types of SLAP (superior labrum- anterior to posterior) tears. These are common in overhand athletes (pitchers, tennis, etc). The shoulder can dislocate in at least 3 ways, but by far most common is anterior-inferiorly. The labrum is a ring (more oval) of cartilage that lines the glenoid (part of the scapula) to deepen the ball and socket joint of the shoulder and keep the humerus located. If you tear your anterior-inferior labrum (Bankart lesion) you may be predisposed to future anterior dislocations. A "bony" Bankart lesion is a tear of the labrum and fracture of the glenoid.Bottom line, there's a huge range of types and severity of labral tears. He may have a small, partial tear now that they worry could become larger with injury. I diagnosed myself with a small labral tear that I probably got from weight lifting. My shoulder would click and I had pain but didn't dislocate. I just did some conservative therapy and strengthened my rotator cuff, and I have no problems. I've also seen plenty of catastrophic tears which require surgery.

Hawk fan -- excellent post. I've been in sports med for 15 years, and was also going to clarify some of the inaccuracies that have been mentioned. Rotator cuff tears and labral tears are two totally separate entities. Although it is possible that a rotator cuff tear can occur during the trauma associated with a labral tear, it is totally inaccurate to state that a dislocation "definition" involves rotator cuff pathology. The presence of a significant rotator cuff tear would escalate the severity of this type of injury exponentially. A word of caution: do not let the "show" that CJ put on by doing push ups give anyone a false sense of security. If he dislocated his shoulder in the manner that is most common, which would result in damage to the anterior aspect (front) of his labrum, push-ups would not present as much of a problem (a push up will place excessive stress on the posterior, or back, aspect of the labrum instead). The potential problem that he will face is when he has to reach behind him for a pass, or he stretches out / lays out for a pass with his arms in front of him as he lands on the ground; those 2 motions will cause potential reinjury, with the second mechanism probably causing further injury.

IMO -- I'm staying away from him this year. While he may do fine, my feeling is that he will not have the mobility to make the difficult catches, and he is one wrong move from a season ending injury.

How are these bolded comments any different than any other player in the NFL?

My guess is that all other players in the NFL don't have the injury that CJ currently has. I believe the poster of those comments was trying to say those movements will cause pain and possibly worsen the injury.

Thanks for recognizing the intent in my post; simply put, a player with a known structural pathology in a body part that is a major contributor to the player's skill set has a greater potential for further injury due to movements that stress the affected site, compared to a "healthy" player without such limitations.

 

[((Morpheus))]

my labrum is currently torn.

i can't believe professional athletes play through the pain.

 

[KellysHeroes]

He blop on the ground and 21 push ups... I'm worried, but not that worried.

 

[NJ]

According to the ESPN article on Chad's injury, Kellen Winslow Jr. played last season with a similar injury.

 

[laxiepoo]

Any doctors in the house? How will this injury affect him?

No doctor, but i went through a torn labrum and it was no fun. Got to the point my shoulder was popping out all the time and it was painful to lift the arm up to shoulder level.Surgery went great and fixed it all, but it was a solid 6 months before it felt 80% or better.FWIWEdit: great posts by the sports med guys. Reaching backwards or upwards was very painful before the surgery. I'd be surprised to see 85 make it more than a couple games.

 

[ShaqAttaq]

understand that there are different degrees of labrum tears. there are anterior or SLAP tears that are common from throwing (i.e baseball players) and usually present with great limitation in ROM due to pain. there are Bankart tears which result from dislocation. arthroscopic surgery is recommended in the young only to prevent future dislocations and is usually done within 10 days of the injury. Late surgical indications include recurrent instability or activity limitations. posterior dislocations are usually associate with a fracture or broken bone. inferior dislocations result in severe pain when the arm is adducted or resting next to the side of the body. here patients often raise their arm or keep it above their head and symptoms are usually associated with some sort of nerve damage and a boney fracture.if you didn't get your shoulder evalauted early, all the other stuff could've healed over the months/years and the only thing noticeable after the fact was the torn labrum. i suspect given your symptoms that you suffered more than just a labral tear from dislocation.

i had a SLAP tear and Bankart tear repaired on July 17. i can lift my arm above my head with some difficulty.

 

[Verbal Kint]

Jene Bramel to the white courtesy phone, please. Dr. Bramel to the white courtesy phone.

 

[Ketamine Dreams]

I asked the orthopedist I work with who specializes in shoulders about this. (He does almost all shoulder work: total shoulders, Bankhart procedures, rotator cuffs, humeral head replacements etc. And he does some sports medicine as well. (FYI I'm an anesthesiologist, and have Chad in my main dynasty)) His take FWIW:

1. CJ will need surgery at some point

2. He can delay surgery, but it is prone to further dislocation/injury

3. This type of injury would be tolerated better in a Offensive lineman or maybe even a TE

4. The harness will help prevent injury/dislocation, but limit his abilities

5. WRs are very dependent on reaching all over in space, quickly, while on the move, and this will hinder that

6. It will also be a mental issue when you fear more pain and injury, which may limit him

7. He said he wouldn't rely on him this year as a fantasy football player, (not sure if he plays FF, but I don't think so, and didn't get that far with my questions.)

 

[kidwithhelmet]

I have seen my fair share of labrum repairs, mostly in pitchers and other baseball players.It will have an effect on his ROM but with the proper protective gear on, he should be fine. However, don't expect to see him going out of his ways on blocking downfield.

My league just removed "stalk blocks" from the WR point category, so I should be fine...

 

[Rounders]

According to the ESPN article on Chad's injury, Kellen Winslow Jr. played last season with a similar injury.

I think that this is a key part to the story. Actually it's wishful thinking, if Winslow can play through the pain, I hope Chad can too.

 

[pantherclub]

According to the ESPN article on Chad's injury, Kellen Winslow Jr. played last season with a similar injury.

I think that this is a key part to the story. Actually it's wishful thinking, if Winslow can play through the pain, I hope Chad can too.

Kellen can play through pain because he is a ####### soldier. Not sure about Chad though.

 

[SCT]

Chad is a physical specimin in top notch condition. I'm sure he should be able to do the same (especially since he was doing pushups in front of reporters).

Certainly, I haven't evaluated him, and I don't know. But, I'd much rather see him demonstrate that he can lift weights above his head over doing a few push-ups while keeping his arms at/below shoulder level. Again, as has been pointed out here by folks more expert than me, there's a lot of variability here with respect to this kind of an injury. I'm just not convinced by this that he's alright.

Pushups is primarily a deltoid and tricep workout. When you do pushups (or even bench press for that matter), it works your chest, but your chest muslces actually have ZERO to do with puching/lifting the weight. It is all your triceps and deltoids (shoulders) that are pushing the weight, your chest just gets a workout due to the fact that your chest muscles are the muscles taking the impact of the weight pushing back down on your body. The pressure pushing back is what tears the muscle fibers in your chest thus making your chest soar and in turn, grow when the fibers heal.The fact that he was doing pushups is very telling as 50% of a pushup is your shoulder muscles and shoulder strength.

Does this mean he is 100% fine? No it doesn't. However, it is still relevant.

Link?

You serious?

No. Just think you're wrong and wanted to follow up.

So when you're doing a push up, do you really think it is your pectoral muscles that is pushing the weight up? Or do you think it is your shoulders and triceps pushing it and your pectoral muscle is just absorbing the pressure of the 315 lbs pushing back down on your body while your arms push it up?Your pectoral muscle does not actually do the pushing, but in turn, it is what gets worked out. Follow me?

I just asked for a link to your claim that the shoulders are 50% of a push up. Don't have one, fine. Now I'll need a link to the 315 lbs. thing as well. TIA

 

[One]

According to the ESPN article on Chad's injury, Kellen Winslow Jr. played last season with a similar injury.

I think that this is a key part to the story. Actually it's wishful thinking, if Winslow can play through the pain, I hope Chad can too.

Kellen can play through pain because he is a ####### soldier. Not sure about Chad though.

I hope Chad enlists.

 

[jon_mx]

For people drafting this week, Chad Johnson has just become a huge sleeper. I could see him drop to the 6th or 7th round. If Chad plays 16 games, he will be a top 10 WR. IMHO, people are over-reacting.

 

[Art Vandalay]

The fact that Kellen played with a similar injury is a little comforting but injuries like thi tend to be unique to each person. The are different build an dplay different postions. had was not the same after the Hit by Brian Russell. If this effects him mentally his season no matter if he plays all the games will be subpar.

Are people holding onto Chad now or trying to move him? If so what would you expect as a return at this point.

 

[LOCO]

The fact that Kellen played with a similar injury is a little comforting but injuries like thi tend to be unique to each person. The are different build an dplay different postions. had was not the same after the Hit by Brian Russell. If this effects him mentally his season no matter if he plays all the games will be subpar. Are people holding onto Chad now or trying to move him? If so what would you expect as a return at this point.

i have choice but to keep him, no one is biting on CJ. i hope after a good game to move him.

 

[Rounders]

The fact that Kellen played with a similar injury is a little comforting but injuries like thi tend to be unique to each person. The are different build an dplay different postions. had was not the same after the Hit by Brian Russell. If this effects him mentally his season no matter if he plays all the games will be subpar. Are people holding onto Chad now or trying to move him? If so what would you expect as a return at this point.

i have choice but to keep him, no one is biting on CJ. i hope after a good game to move him.

That's my hope too. I'm praying that he starts off the season nicely and then I can move him for an upgrade elsewhere. Please fantasy gods! Help me!