Chad Johnson vs. Steve Smith (1 Viewer)

[tytyty]

May be a Honda but with Palmer gone for a little while what is the rationale behind this?

 

[perry147]

May be a Honda but with Palmer gone for a little while what is the rationale behind this?

Palmer might play in the preseason and even if he does miss a game or two CJ will still put up good numbers.

 

[bshipper]

The addition of Keyshawn in Carolina is likely to take away from Smith numbers.

 

[BoltBacker]

Johnsons season didn't stand out compared to recent years.

Smiths season was by far his best.

Johnson has demonstrated a better track record for producing those #'s even without Palmer.

That'd be my guess.

 

[sholditch]

Johnsons season didn't stand out compared to recent years.

Smiths season was by far his best.

Johnson has demonstrated a better track record for producing those #'s even without Palmer.

That'd be my guess.

Also CJ has no big injury history, stands about 3 inches taller, and does have a better QB at the helm.

 

[ShadowMaster]

May be a Honda but with Palmer gone for a little while what is the rationale behind this?

Cincy O > Carolina O

 

[ookook]

If Palmer is going to sit, CJ will drop a bit. But the projections are pretty close now (who cares about rank?).

 

[perry147]

If Palmer is going to sit, CJ will drop a bit. But the projections are pretty close now (who cares about rank?).

There was an article posted the in an interview with Marvin Lewis he said he belives Palmer will play in the preseason. On his current schedule it seems Palmer will be ready for the first game.

 

[ATC1]

The addition of Keyshawn in Carolina is likely to take away from Smith numbers.

Just the opposite IMHO.S. Smith will no longer be double and tripled teamed. After watching the SEA game in the playoffs, I think defenses would have taken a note from SEA and just triple team Smith. Other CAR WRs were wide open the whole game, but they were not aggressive enough to get the ball thrown to them. KJ will want the ball, and defenses will not be able to triple S. Smith.

Another thing I find interesting is Terry Glen's numbers last year with KJ.

Last year, as the #1 deep threat receiver he caught 62 passes for 1,136 yards and 7 scores. T. Glenn is no S. Smith.

 

[ScottNorwood]

If Palmer is going to sit, CJ will drop a bit. But the projections are pretty close now (who cares about rank?).

There was an article posted the in an interview with Marvin Lewis he said he belives Palmer will play in the preseason. On his current schedule it seems Palmer will be ready for the first game.

Also, CJ was putting up excellent numbers even before Palmer showed up.

 

[tytyty]

The addition of Keyshawn in Carolina is likely to take away from Smith numbers.

Just the opposite IMHO.S. Smith will no longer be double and tripled teamed. After watching the SEA game in the playoffs, I think defenses would have taken a note from SEA and just triple team Smith. Other CAR WRs were wide open the whole game, but they were not aggressive enough to get the ball thrown to them. KJ will want the ball, and defenses will not be able to triple S. Smith.

Another thing I find interesting is Terry Glen's numbers last year with KJ.

Last year, as the #1 deep threat receiver he caught 62 passes for 1,136 yards and 7 scores. T. Glenn is no S. Smith.

Agreed. If the draft comes and those two are there ripe for the picking, I just cant see how Steve Smith isn't on my list over CJ

 

[Chase Stuart]

The addition of Keyshawn in Carolina is likely to take away from Smith numbers.

Other CAR WRs were wide open the whole game, but they were not aggressive enough to get the ball thrown to them.

What does that mean?

 

[gang-wars]

CJ is terribly overrated. A possession receiver who talks smack through the media.

2005 - 8th in PPG among WRs

2004 - 10th in PPG among WRs

2003 - 4th in PPG among WRs

2002 - 19th in PPG among WRs

And he's the consensus #1 WR in the league? And enough about how young he is. He's 28 years old. Seems he did better with KITNA.

Holt

2005 - 3rd in PPG among WRs

2004 - 6th in PPG among WRs

2003 - 2nd in PPG among WRs

2002 - 14th in PPG among WRs

Harrison

2005 - 7th in PPG among WRs

2004 - 5th in PPG among WRs

2003 - 3rd in PPG among WRs

2002 - 1st in PPG among WRs

TO

2005 - 1st in PPG among WRs

2004 - 2nd in PPG among WRs

2003 - 11th in PPG among WRs

2002 - 2nd in PPG among WRs

You take the top 25 redraft FBG WRs BEST year, CJ isn't even in the top 10. His ceiling is limited. So is the floor, but #1? No way. He'll get his 7-9 TDs, 1,200 yards, solid #1. But people predicting a career year to justify him #1 WR overall? Come on. If he didn't talk trash, 95% of FF wouldn't even be able to tell you what # jersey he wears.

He's a nice pick at WR 4-6. Solid production. Isn't going to explode for 15 tds (EVER). And Housh will likely get more TDs then CJ if he stays healthy. CJ just isn't a big play WR, and his best year, comes up very small against Holt, TO, Harrison, SS, R Moss. And for a guy who turns 29 just after xmas, this amazing "upside" and "CJ is so young" is all just man crush rhetoric.

 

[Kiddnets]

Smith is the #1 by a long shot. Until I see Palmer on the field there are too many questions.

 

[Chase Stuart]

CJ is terribly overrated. A possession receiver who talks smack through the media.

2005 - 8th in PPG among WRs

Who are the seven WRs ahead of him?

 

[ookook]

I am a pretty huge SS fan, but will probably take Holt or Harrison on the turn if it came to that.

Like Gang-wars, I look for consistency of being top 6 or so.

 

[BigTex]

Steve Smith is going to dissapoint a lot of people this year.

 

[ATC1]

The addition of Keyshawn in Carolina is likely to take away from Smith numbers.

Other CAR WRs were wide open the whole game, but they were not aggressive enough to get the ball thrown to them.

What does that mean?

Did you watch the game? The CAR WRs were not aggressive to get the ball in their routes. Thus, SEA was able to cover S. Smith like white on rice.CHI the game before tried to not to roll coverage too much toward S. SMith and then got burnt. Now with KJ, teams can't cover S. Smith like SEA did.

 

[Chase Stuart]

The addition of Keyshawn in Carolina is likely to take away from Smith numbers.

Other CAR WRs were wide open the whole game, but they were not aggressive enough to get the ball thrown to them.

What does that mean?

Did you watch the game? The CAR WRs were not aggressive to get the ball in their routes. Thus, SEA was able to cover S. Smith like white on rice.CHI the game before tried to not to roll coverage too much toward S. SMith and then got burnt. Now with KJ, teams can't cover S. Smith like SEA did.

If a WR is wide open, what more do you want him to do to 'be aggressive' and get the ball? That's the part I don't understand.

 

[LHUCKS]

I agree, I also have Fitz projected higher. I would draft Moss ahead of Johnson in H2H as well.

 

[perry147]

I am a pretty huge SS fan, but will probably take Holt or Harrison on the turn if it came to that.

Like Gang-wars, I look for consistency of being top 6 or so.

I do not think Harrison is in the same class. With Reggie Wayne coming on for the Colts Harrsion might be 2nd on the Colts FF wise. None of the others have that problem.

 

[Chase Stuart]

I agree, I also have Fitz projected higher. I would draft Moss ahead of Johnson in H2H as well.

Which Moss?

 

[perry147]

The addition of Keyshawn in Carolina is likely to take away from Smith numbers.

Other CAR WRs were wide open the whole game, but they were not aggressive enough to get the ball thrown to them.

What does that mean?

Did you watch the game? The CAR WRs were not aggressive to get the ball in their routes. Thus, SEA was able to cover S. Smith like white on rice.CHI the game before tried to not to roll coverage too much toward S. SMith and then got burnt. Now with KJ, teams can't cover S. Smith like SEA did.

If a WR is wide open, what more do you want him to do to 'be aggressive' and get the ball? That's the part I don't understand.

I agree what else does the WR need to do?

 

[Dancing Bear]

1 Terrell Owens

2 Steve Smith

3 Torry Holt

4 Anquan Boldin

5 Larry Fitzgerald

6 Santana Moss

7 Marvin Harrison

8 Joey Galloway

9 Chris Chambers

10 Darrell Jackson

11 Hines Ward

12 Terry Glenn

13 Donald Driver

14 Randy Moss

15 Roy Williams

16 Plaxico Burress

17 Javon Walker

Aside from his mouth, his actions on the field have been consistent with Kitna/ Palmer, but IMHO each of these 17 players has a chance to equal or best Chad Johnson on a ppg perspective. Especially if Johnson plays any appreciable time with Anthony Wright under center. More than 1/2 of them were either better than him last year or less than one ppg away. Several of them have had better years in the past and had some bad breaks and situations which should be remedied this year.

 

[tytyty]

allrighty then, i guess i didn't start a honda. good info in this thread.

 

[B. Nugget]

He's a nice pick at WR 4-6. Solid production. Isn't going to explode for 15 tds (EVER). And Housh will likely get more TDs then CJ if he stays healthy. CJ just isn't a big play WR, and his best year, comes up very small against Holt, TO, Harrison, SS, R Moss. And for a guy who turns 29 just after xmas, this amazing "upside" and "CJ is so young" is all just man crush rhetoric.

Ask Champ Bailey if he knows what number Chad wears.B. Nugget

 

[LHUCKS]

I agree, I also have Fitz projected higher.  I would draft Moss ahead of Johnson in H2H as well.

Which Moss?

Randy Moss.

 

[BoltBacker]

The addition of Keyshawn in Carolina is likely to take away from Smith numbers.

Other CAR WRs were wide open the whole game, but they were not aggressive enough to get the ball thrown to them.

What does that mean?

Did you watch the game? The CAR WRs were not aggressive to get the ball in their routes. Thus, SEA was able to cover S. Smith like white on rice.CHI the game before tried to not to roll coverage too much toward S. SMith and then got burnt. Now with KJ, teams can't cover S. Smith like SEA did.

If a WR is wide open, what more do you want him to do to 'be aggressive' and get the ball? That's the part I don't understand.

I agree what else does the WR need to do?

I think he's talking about coming back for the ball, shielding the incoming ball from the defender to make sure he can't deflect/intercept it, etc.All that stuff Irvin made a career out of.

 

[Chase Stuart]

The addition of Keyshawn in Carolina is likely to take away from Smith numbers.

Other CAR WRs were wide open the whole game, but they were not aggressive enough to get the ball thrown to them.

What does that mean?

Did you watch the game? The CAR WRs were not aggressive to get the ball in their routes. Thus, SEA was able to cover S. Smith like white on rice.CHI the game before tried to not to roll coverage too much toward S. SMith and then got burnt. Now with KJ, teams can't cover S. Smith like SEA did.

If a WR is wide open, what more do you want him to do to 'be aggressive' and get the ball? That's the part I don't understand.

I agree what else does the WR need to do?

I think he's talking about coming back for the ball, shielding the incoming ball from the defender to make sure he can't deflect/intercept it, etc.All that stuff Irvin made a career out of.

I don't think that's it. He's talking about getting "the ball thrown to them" not catching the ball when it is thrown.

 

[bshipper]

The addition of Keyshawn in Carolina is likely to take away from Smith numbers.

Just the opposite IMHO.S. Smith will no longer be double and tripled teamed. After watching the SEA game in the playoffs, I think defenses would have taken a note from SEA and just triple team Smith. Other CAR WRs were wide open the whole game, but they were not aggressive enough to get the ball thrown to them. KJ will want the ball, and defenses will not be able to triple S. Smith.

Look at who Delhomme had to throw to last year, no WR/TE other than Smith caught more than 25 balls. There were games where he would force balls to Smith because he was the only one making plays. With Keyshawn and an improved Drew Carter, there is no way that Smith puts up the numbers from last year (103 catches, 1563 yds, 12 TD). Like you said, Keyshawn will want the ball, and you can be sure that he will get at least 50 catches this year, twice that of the #2 WR in CAR last year.

 

[Deuce'sWild]

I too am a little unsure about CJ this year. I had him last year, and he was good, but not GREAT. Other WRs like Fitz, Smith, R. Moss, and TO have much higher ceilings I think, and are at the least going to finish where CJ will. I think TO has the most upside, and he's #1 on my board of WRs.

Now, if Palmer is 100% healthy come week 1, CJ has the potential to be around 11 tds and 1400 yds. But unlike those other guys, I just can't see him going much higher. If Palmer is hurt he drops. Years past he's done it with Kitna, but these other clowns won't get it done.

 

[Jason Wood]

CJ is terribly overrated. A possession receiver who talks smack through the media.

2005 - 8th in PPG among WRs

2004 - 10th in PPG among WRs

2003 - 4th in PPG among WRs

2002 - 19th in PPG among WRs

And he's the consensus #1 WR in the league? And enough about how young he is. He's 28 years old. Seems he did better with KITNA.

Holt

2005 - 3rd in PPG among WRs

2004 - 6th in PPG among WRs

2003 - 2nd in PPG among WRs

2002 - 14th in PPG among WRs

Harrison

2005 - 7th in PPG among WRs

2004 - 5th in PPG among WRs

2003 - 3rd in PPG among WRs

2002 - 1st in PPG among WRs

TO

2005 - 1st in PPG among WRs

2004 - 2nd in PPG among WRs

2003 - 11th in PPG among WRs

2002 - 2nd in PPG among WRs

You take the top 25 redraft FBG WRs BEST year, CJ isn't even in the top 10. His ceiling is limited. So is the floor, but #1? No way. He'll get his 7-9 TDs, 1,200 yards, solid #1. But people predicting a career year to justify him #1 WR overall? Come on. If he didn't talk trash, 95% of FF wouldn't even be able to tell you what # jersey he wears.

He's a nice pick at WR 4-6. Solid production. Isn't going to explode for 15 tds (EVER). And Housh will likely get more TDs then CJ if he stays healthy. CJ just isn't a big play WR, and his best year, comes up very small against Holt, TO, Harrison, SS, R Moss. And for a guy who turns 29 just after xmas, this amazing "upside" and "CJ is so young" is all just man crush rhetoric.

Hey gang-wars...while I applaud the effort, I have some questions about your findings.1) I think you must be using a slightly different scoring system than we do (our rankings are based on FBG scoring...1 pt per 10 yards rush/rec, 6 pts per TD). Under that scoring, Chad Johnson ranked:

2005 -- 7th

2004 -- 10th
2003 -- 4th
2002 -- 11th2) You refer to him as a possession receiver? He was fifth in the league in "big" catches last year (defined as 25+ yards), he had seven 40+ yard receptions, 2nd best in the NFL (a stat he led the league in two seasons ago). He's hardly a possession guy.

3) Lastly, your declaration that Houshmandzadeh would overtake him for TDs potentially?

Chad Johnson -- 1 TD per every 11.1 receptions
T.J. Houshmandzadeh -- 1 TD per every 17.8 receptions

 

[BoltBacker]

CJ is terribly overrated. A possession receiver who talks smack through the media.

2005 - 8th in PPG among WRs

2004 - 10th in PPG among WRs

2003 - 4th in PPG among WRs

2002 - 19th in PPG among WRs

And he's the consensus #1 WR in the league? And enough about how young he is. He's 28 years old. Seems he did better with KITNA.

Holt

2005 - 3rd in PPG among WRs

2004 - 6th in PPG among WRs

2003 - 2nd in PPG among WRs

2002 - 14th in PPG among WRs

Harrison

2005 - 7th in PPG among WRs

2004 - 5th in PPG among WRs

2003 - 3rd in PPG among WRs

2002 - 1st in PPG among WRs

TO

2005 - 1st in PPG among WRs

2004 - 2nd in PPG among WRs

2003 - 11th in PPG among WRs

2002 - 2nd in PPG among WRs

You take the top 25 redraft FBG WRs BEST year, CJ isn't even in the top 10. His ceiling is limited. So is the floor, but #1? No way. He'll get his 7-9 TDs, 1,200 yards, solid #1. But people predicting a career year to justify him #1 WR overall? Come on. If he didn't talk trash, 95% of FF wouldn't even be able to tell you what # jersey he wears.

He's a nice pick at WR 4-6. Solid production. Isn't going to explode for 15 tds (EVER). And Housh will likely get more TDs then CJ if he stays healthy. CJ just isn't a big play WR, and his best year, comes up very small against Holt, TO, Harrison, SS, R Moss. And for a guy who turns 29 just after xmas, this amazing "upside" and "CJ is so young" is all just man crush rhetoric.

Hey gang-wars...while I applaud the effort

I think you are giving this guy WAAAAY too much credit.CJ was #8 in ppg last season and TO was #1?????? Wow, what a great stat! I'm sure all those people that drafted TO over CJ were pleased as punch last season.

Most FF leagues play for at least 16 games a season. Maybe we should compare CJ's last five SEASONS combined to everyone else.

 

[ATC1]

The addition of Keyshawn in Carolina is likely to take away from Smith numbers.

Just the opposite IMHO.S. Smith will no longer be double and tripled teamed. After watching the SEA game in the playoffs, I think defenses would have taken a note from SEA and just triple team Smith. Other CAR WRs were wide open the whole game, but they were not aggressive enough to get the ball thrown to them. KJ will want the ball, and defenses will not be able to triple S. Smith.

Look at who Delhomme had to throw to last year, no WR/TE other than Smith caught more than 25 balls. There were games where he would force balls to Smith because he was the only one making plays. With Keyshawn and an improved Drew Carter, there is no way that Smith puts up the numbers from last year (103 catches, 1563 yds, 12 TD). Like you said, Keyshawn will want the ball, and you can be sure that he will get at least 50 catches this year, twice that of the #2 WR in CAR last year.

We are trying to compare CJ to Smith, not his numbers compared to last year. My rankings are:Holt

S. Smith

TO

Harrison

CJ

With the other CAR WRs not getting open. It maybe Delhomme's inability to not target one player, or the WRs not doing what they need to do to get open. The whole SEA game last year Smith was covered. There had to be someone open, whether lack of effort from a WR or inability of Delhomme. Either way KJ posses such a threat that teams will not be able to lock on S. Smith.

 

[by_the_sea_wannabe]

I agree, I also have Fitz projected higher. I would draft Moss ahead of Johnson in H2H as well.

Which Moss?

Randy Moss.

I must say this surprises me a lot. To me Randy Moss has a lot of risk, while CJ doesn't. Considering when these players will be drafted.

 

[Dancing Bear]

CJ is being projected to lead the pack ... and with a questionable QB [health only] ...

TO outscored CJ by 3.5 ppg last year. 2004 it was 3.1 ppg. 2002 it was 5.4 ppg. CJ had TO in 2003 only by 1.3 ppg and this can easily be explained by the presence of Rattay in Garcia's absence [on top of the feuding sillyness]

What makes CJ that much better than TO this year? Let alone the other 16 WR's I mentioned who either bested him last year or in the years past ...

CJ situation is going to be bleak if Wright plays more than a series; Kitna made a huge difference and it seems that folks are not considering his impact in Cincinnati ...

 

[kylechoffman]

The addition of Keyshawn in Carolina is likely to take away from Smith numbers.

Just the opposite IMHO.S. Smith will no longer be double and tripled teamed. After watching the SEA game in the playoffs, I think defenses would have taken a note from SEA and just triple team Smith. Other CAR WRs were wide open the whole game, but they were not aggressive enough to get the ball thrown to them. KJ will want the ball, and defenses will not be able to triple S. Smith.

Look at who Delhomme had to throw to last year, no WR/TE other than Smith caught more than 25 balls. There were games where he would force balls to Smith because he was the only one making plays. With Keyshawn and an improved Drew Carter, there is no way that Smith puts up the numbers from last year (103 catches, 1563 yds, 12 TD). Like you said, Keyshawn will want the ball, and you can be sure that he will get at least 50 catches this year, twice that of the #2 WR in CAR last year.

We are trying to compare CJ to Smith, not his numbers compared to last year. My rankings are:Holt

S. Smith

TO

Harrison

CJ

With the other CAR WRs not getting open. It maybe Delhomme's inability to not target one player, or the WRs not doing what they need to do to get open. The whole SEA game last year Smith was covered. There had to be someone open, whether lack of effort from a WR or inability of Delhomme. Either way KJ posses such a threat that teams will not be able to lock on S. Smith.

I would like to know how T Holt is being claimed to be the top WR for 2006 when the offense he so flourished in the past few season was run by Martz. Martz is gone and according to everything published, the offensive attack will be more balanced. Bruce was resigned, curtis is back and two tes drafted. Someone explain the hype behind holt as the #1.

 

[kylechoffman]

One more thing - Lots of Question Marks surrounding a ton of players this year:

R Moss - New qb, will he play full season

TO - New scheme, will challenge Glenn for the looks

S Smith - Meshawn needs passes, might hurt his #s

Holt - New coach and offensive scheme

CJ - Palmer injury, sorry but until he plays, we wont know how he will affect the offense

Ward - Big ben - whats the effect

List continues...

 

[joffer]

1. Smith

2. T.O. (I've changed my mind on him in the last month)

3. Fitz

4. Holt

5. Boldin

6. Johnson

7. Harrison

8. Moss

 

[IRON CHEF]

what about a PPR league?

 

[Jon_Moore]

One more thing - Lots of Question Marks surrounding a ton of players this year:

R Moss - New qb, will he play full season

TO - New scheme, will challenge Glenn for the looks

S Smith - Meshawn needs passes, might hurt his #s

Holt - New coach and offensive scheme

CJ - Palmer injury, sorry but until he plays, we wont know how he will affect the offense

Ward - Big ben - whats the effect

List continues...

lol idk about Owens challenging Glenn for looks...seems the other way aroundI think with all of the questions, Holt becomes the safest option, and I see Owens having the highest upside.

As for Smith vs. Johnson...Smith may repeat, but I'd prefer the guy that's already put up the top tier #'s a few times.

 

[LHUCKS]

I agree, I also have Fitz projected higher.  I would draft Moss ahead of Johnson in H2H as well.

Which Moss?

Randy Moss.

I must say this surprises me a lot. To me Randy Moss has a lot of risk, while CJ doesn't. Considering when these players will be drafted.

I take on risk in 12 team H2H if I feel I can get WR value in the middle rounds.I guess it depends on the draft. In a 12 team expert league with PPR I may be less agressive.

Utilizing risk management also involves taking high risk/high reward players if the format is right...think of it as balancing your stock portfolio.

 

[zamboni]

The addition of Keyshawn in Carolina is likely to take away from Smith numbers.

Just the opposite IMHO.

It's hard to imagine Smith's numbers getting any better. To his credit, he performed week after week despite being double and triple teamed, but Delhomme still got him the ball.IIRC, there were few targets to the other receivers, but now there is another threat with Keyshawn.

I don't see Smith's numbers dropping off all that much, but expecting last year's numbers may prove to be disappointing.

Chad may not have as much upside with Housh there, but you'll have a reasonable shot at knowing what you'll get with him.

 

[MLBrandow]

I don't know if you guys have spelling problems or simply don't like to think about a guy with that long of a name...

but there is far too much talk about Keyshawn Johnson taking away receptions from Steve Smith and not nearly enough about TJ Houshmandzadeh taking receptions from Chad Johnson.

Housh is on the verge of becoming a stud receiver. I don't know about how super confident you guys are about Carson Palmer, but I don't expect him to be back into game shape until midseason, a few weeks after he gets back.

That means to me, do you take the guy that will likely explode late in the season and anchor your playoff team?

Or do you take the guy that will be explosive all season and likely anchor your playoff team?

I don't see how there's really a wrong answer unless you plan on drafting Chad Johnson in the 2nd round, which someone likely will.

I've had CJ on my FF redrafts every year for the past four years. This year the cost is just too high.

If you're going to spend a 2nd rounder on a WR, get one that will produce ALL YEAR, not just later in the season.

And even then, who's better CJ or SS, all extras equal? It's highly debatable. Why take the guy with the question marks?

 

[KnowledgeReignsSupreme]

I would like to know how T Holt is being claimed to be the top WR for 2006 when the offense he so flourished in the past few season was run by Martz. Martz is gone and according to everything published, the offensive attack will be more balanced. Bruce was resigned, curtis is back and two tes drafted. Someone explain the hype behind holt as the #1.

He's really ####### good?A decline in the passing offense will impact the other receiving options more than it will impact Holt. I certainly wouldn't be too worried about two rookie TEs stealing catches from Holt.

Even with Chris "I throw 6 INTs a game" Chandler running the offense, Holt still puts up numbers.

Bulger knows how to play QB, and if he falters, STL actually has their best backup QB since... well Marc Bulger.

 

[KnowledgeReignsSupreme]

CJ is terribly overrated. A possession receiver who talks smack through the media.

2005 - 8th in PPG among WRs

2004 - 10th in PPG among WRs

2003 - 4th in PPG among WRs

2002 - 19th in PPG among WRs

And he's the consensus #1 WR in the league? And enough about how young he is. He's 28 years old. Seems he did better with KITNA.

Holt

2005 - 3rd in PPG among WRs

2004 - 6th in PPG among WRs

2003 - 2nd in PPG among WRs

2002 - 14th in PPG among WRs

Harrison

2005 - 7th in PPG among WRs

2004 - 5th in PPG among WRs

2003 - 3rd in PPG among WRs

2002 - 1st in PPG among WRs

TO

2005 - 1st in PPG among WRs

2004 - 2nd in PPG among WRs

2003 - 11th in PPG among WRs

2002 - 2nd in PPG among WRs

You take the top 25 redraft FBG WRs BEST year, CJ isn't even in the top 10. His ceiling is limited. So is the floor, but #1? No way. He'll get his 7-9 TDs, 1,200 yards, solid #1. But people predicting a career year to justify him #1 WR overall? Come on. If he didn't talk trash, 95% of FF wouldn't even be able to tell you what # jersey he wears.

He's a nice pick at WR 4-6. Solid production. Isn't going to explode for 15 tds (EVER). And Housh will likely get more TDs then CJ if he stays healthy. CJ just isn't a big play WR, and his best year, comes up very small against Holt, TO, Harrison, SS, R Moss. And for a guy who turns 29 just after xmas, this amazing "upside" and "CJ is so young" is all just man crush rhetoric.

Any particular reason you left your boy Steve Smith out of the PPG numbers for 2003 and 2005?

 

[Homey]

The addition of Keyshawn in Carolina is likely to take away from Smith numbers.

Just the opposite IMHO.S. Smith will no longer be double and tripled teamed. After watching the SEA game in the playoffs, I think defenses would have taken a note from SEA and just triple team Smith. Other CAR WRs were wide open the whole game, but they were not aggressive enough to get the ball thrown to them. KJ will want the ball, and defenses will not be able to triple S. Smith.

Look at who Delhomme had to throw to last year, no WR/TE other than Smith caught more than 25 balls. There were games where he would force balls to Smith because he was the only one making plays. With Keyshawn and an improved Drew Carter, there is no way that Smith puts up the numbers from last year (103 catches, 1563 yds, 12 TD). Like you said, Keyshawn will want the ball, and you can be sure that he will get at least 50 catches this year, twice that of the #2 WR in CAR last year.

We are trying to compare CJ to Smith, not his numbers compared to last year. My rankings are:Holt

S. Smith

TO

Harrison

CJ

With the other CAR WRs not getting open. It maybe Delhomme's inability to not target one player, or the WRs not doing what they need to do to get open. The whole SEA game last year Smith was covered. There had to be someone open, whether lack of effort from a WR or inability of Delhomme. Either way KJ posses such a threat that teams will not be able to lock on S. Smith.

I would like to know how T Holt is being claimed to be the top WR for 2006 when the offense he so flourished in the past few season was run by Martz. Martz is gone and according to everything published, the offensive attack will be more balanced. Bruce was resigned, curtis is back and two tes drafted. Someone explain the hype behind holt as the #1.

How did Randy Moss and Chris Chambers fair in Scott Linehan offenses? I see Holt as #1 WR this year as well.

 

[cscmtp]

IMO, Steve Smith is the most explosive WR in the game today. CJ is great. Fitz and Holt are great. Randy Moss when healthy is great. But i think S.Smith has the best odds of breaking it for a long one EVERYTIME he touches the ball. I don't have the data to support it, but i'm betting Smith's YAC are far greater than any of the other top WRs. He turns simple slant routes and screens into TDs on a VERY regular basis. Guy is like LT at WR. Yes, i live in the Carolinas and own him in 6 dynasty leagues

 

[Dancing Bear]

cscmtp,

I agree that Smith is explosive, but I would not get that caught up in YAC if I was you.

If Chris Chambers catches a 65 yard bomb from Daunte Culpepper in stride at the 2 and goes in for a TD, then his YAC is 2. Is that representative of the play? Or of Chambers abilities? I do not necessarily think so ...

I think that CJ is being over-valued especially compared with his risk and especially as at least 16 other guys that I have mentioned previously have either equalled or bested him in the past two years!

To name just two other WR's who I feel are being unreasonably ranked lower, currently Footballguys.com has CJ 0.5 ppg ahead of TO and 1 ppg ahead of Steve Smith. I cannot see this personally based on the risk of Palmer and also based on the fact that they have both bested him from a ppg perspective regularly.

 

[SomeCallMeTim]

Maybe FBG's is just posting false intelligence on the site to fool all the people who lurk for free. I bet, before the season starts, CJ will NOT be #1. Maybe, he won't even be in the Top 5!

I'm sort of a Bengal fan... but, puh-lease. With Palmer recovering, and Housh coming on.... CJ has no chance of being #1 overall.