Chamber/Wayne... (1 Viewer)

[creeps1313]

It seems to me that one of these will be my pick in the third round...and Im not sure which one I like better. Its a standard scoring league with no points per receptions. I figure in PPR leagues Wayne is the sure choice...but who do you guys like better in non-PPR?

My initiall thoughts are to take Wayne. He has a better QB...and except for TDs was very comparable to Harrison last year. Is this the year that Wayne overtakes Harrison?

Chambers has a ton of potential...but a lot depends on CPep. Also, Chambers is known for his drops. Is this the year he finally puts it all together?

 

[red]

chambers:

PROS: CPepp's #1. breakout year last year. acrobatic catches. improved MIA team. ?red zone target.

CONS: ? about CPepp staying healthy. no more lineham. ?McMichael = red zone target...what about brown?

wayne:

PROS: peyton. no edge. harrison doubled. consistent past coupla' years.

CONS: ?wayne doubled and peyton just adjusts (i.e. bump TE). no edge.

i view chambers as the high risk/high reward pick, but am cautious because i don't like drafting this year based on last year. it's close, but i think i would go wayne.

 

[Ron_Mexico]

Slight edge to Wayne.

I have much more faith

in Manning getting him the ball

rather than Culpepper getting the ball to Chambers.

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

Wayne because Miami's O will be more conservative under Mularkey, and the Indy passing offense is set for another huge year because they don't have a true workhorse back.

 

[laughinboy_2000]

I'm calling it right now. This is the year to take Colt WR's. They have an EASY schedule and I don't believe Rhodes or the Rook can get it done running the ball. I see Peyton throwing, and then throwing, and then throwing some more this year. We could be looking at another historical year for Peyton and the Colts offense. The WR's will benefit.

The Dolphins new OC loves to run the ball and Ronnie Brown is going to carry the ball a ton.

Take Wayne in a no-brainer!

 

[Wingnut]

tough call. It comes down to whether you want a true WR1 or a WR1a. Both are good picks this year, and they could end up with similar numbers...Chambers did good with avg QBs in the past, and I think once Pep gets comfy (im thinking halfway thru the season) Chambers will be money down the stretch.

Tough tough call, but Id be inclined to take Chambers. Is it the right choice? Who knows at this point.

 

[DolphinsPhan]

Agree about taking Wayne over Chambers. Chambers led the league in targets last year and I doubt he does it again. I think Chambers' numbes will actually go down this year.

Not to mention that Manning is pretty much indestrucable and Culpepper isn't the most durable QB and then it is the Joey Harrington show... :X

 

[SSOG]

Wayne. Chambers couldn't catch a cold, and would need 160 targets again to wind up with 80 catches.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Wayne. Chambers couldn't catch a cold, and would need 160 targets again to wind up with 80 catches.

Ah...he had 82 catches last year guy.

 

[Native]

Wayne. Chambers couldn't catch a cold, and would need 160 targets again to wind up with 80 catches.

Chambers has great hands.

 

[SSOG]

Wayne. Chambers couldn't catch a cold, and would need 160 targets again to wind up with 80 catches.

Ah...he had 82 catches last year guy.

Right. And he had 166 targets. So like I said, in order to catch 80 balls this year, he would need 160 targets AGAIN.

Wayne. Chambers couldn't catch a cold, and would need 160 targets again to wind up with 80 catches.

Chambers has great hands.

For someone with such great hands, he sure sucks at catching the ball.2005- 49% catch rate.

2004- 50% catch rate.

2003- 49% catch rate.

 

[Oscar Goldman]

I think Wayne takes over as Indy's #1 this year. No disrespect to Marvin, but he's 34 years old now. Therefore I'd take Wayne in an explosive scheme, as opposed to Chambers in a run first offense.

 

[T-BONE]

Wayne. Chambers couldn't catch a cold, and would need 160 targets again to wind up with 80 catches.

Ah...he had 82 catches last year guy.

Right. And he had 166 targets. So like I said, in order to catch 80 balls this year, he would need 160 targets AGAIN.

Wayne. Chambers couldn't catch a cold, and would need 160 targets again to wind up with 80 catches.

Chambers has great hands.

For someone with such great hands, he sure sucks at catching the ball.2005- 49% catch rate.

2004- 50% catch rate.

2003- 49% catch rate.

How does these catch rate are calculate?Does a poor throw from a bad QB count like a drop ??

Chambers never had a QB like culpepper before.....

.

 

[Snotbubbles]

Chambers never had a QB like culpepper before.....

....6 TDs and 12 INTs....I hope not.

 

[T-BONE]

Chambers never had a QB like culpepper before.....

....6 TDs and 12 INTs....I hope not.

Would you rather have JFeely throwing to you ???

 

[Pied Piper]

Chambers never had a QB like culpepper before.....

....6 TDs and 12 INTs....I hope not.

Nice sample there...

 

[dlptown]

Regardless of how the catch rate is formulated, Chambers isn't the best at holding onto the ball.

I like Wayne as Manning's potential carries him

 

[Sleeper 43]

Wayne hands down. Wayne has been slowly getting better every year. This preseason its begining to look like Harrison is taking the backseat to Wayne as the #1. Dont get me wrong Harrison is still great, I'm just saying Wayne broke out as a legitimate #1 last year IMO. This preseason it seems as if Peyton understands its time for Wayne to step up and Harrison to be more of the possession guy. Just my observation.

Now Chris Chambers.. Ive always thought he was good but not great.

Was it becasue hes never had a great QB, I dont know.

Was it becasue hes never had a coach that was big on passing I dont know.

Last year was the 1st time he stepped up as a top WR.

I am not knit picking but his stats last year are padded by a couple 200+ yards games I think he had a couple 3+ TD games. Hes not a consistent, yet at least. I would not be 1 bit suprised if Chambers falls back into the good but not great category of WR's (see Keyshaun Johnson and L. Coles, Mushin Muhammed)

Wayne I think is undervalued where he ranks currently on almost every projection sheet I see.

Top 10 WR for Wayne this year Top 25 For Chambers.

 

[SSOG]

Wayne. Chambers couldn't catch a cold, and would need 160 targets again to wind up with 80 catches.

Ah...he had 82 catches last year guy.

Right. And he had 166 targets. So like I said, in order to catch 80 balls this year, he would need 160 targets AGAIN.

Wayne. Chambers couldn't catch a cold, and would need 160 targets again to wind up with 80 catches.

Chambers has great hands.

For someone with such great hands, he sure sucks at catching the ball.2005- 49% catch rate.

2004- 50% catch rate.

2003- 49% catch rate.

How does these catch rate are calculate?Does a poor throw from a bad QB count like a drop ??

Chambers never had a QB like culpepper before.....

Catches divided by Targets = catch%.Before you start blaming Chambers' catch% on his QBs, you should know that Lee Evans had a 53% catch% with J.P. Losman (worse QB). Arnaz Battle caught 59% with Alex Smith, Ken Dorsey, Tim Rattay, and Cody Pickett (worse QBs). Andre Johnson has put up 55%, 58%, and 55% with David Carr (and has a better ypr over that 3-year span, to boot). And Johnson didn't even have a credible WR2 drawing coverages (like Chambers has in Booker, a pro-bowler).

Besides, Gus Frerotte isn't chopped liver here. He's played 11 NFL seasons, which is something that scrubs simply do not accomplish. Also, I seem to recall his presence not hurting Rod Smith or Ed McCaffrey any as they become the second pair of teammates to catch 100 balls each (they caught 58% and 68% that year, despite Frerotte starting 7 games).

 

[LHUCKS]

the answer is Santana Moss, who handily outperformed both last year.

 

[Snotbubbles]

Would you rather have JFeely throwing to you ???

That's like asking if I'd rather sleep with Roseanne Barr or Rosie O'Donnell.

Nice sample there...

Sorry...when I get a chance I'll look at Culpeppers stats, sans Randy Moss.

 

[DolphinsPhan]

Also, last year Chambers was in Scott Linehan's system which focuses on the #1WR which is why he had so many targets. New offensive coordinator with new system and there won't be as much passing.

 

[SSOG]

Also, last year Chambers was in Scott Linehan's system which focuses on the #1WR which is why he had so many targets. New offensive coordinator with new system and there won't be as much passing.

I believe Saban has said that they aren't going to make many changes in the offensive system.

 

[LHUCKS]

Also, last year Chambers was in Scott Linehan's system which focuses on the #1WR which is why he had so many targets. New offensive coordinator with new system and there won't be as much passing.

I believe Saban has said that they aren't going to make many changes in the offensive system.

perhaps not the system, but he has openly said they want to run the ball more.

 

[MLBrandow]

Wayne because Miami's O will be more conservative under Mularkey, and the Indy passing offense is set for another huge year because they don't have a true workhorse back.

Dominic Rhodes down?It's Wayne, but not because IND will pass more than they have in past years.They both should hover around the 1100/11 mark, but that's a ceiling for Chambers and a floor for Wayne.Another add worth noting is that Mularkey WRs typically have about the same numbers. In other words, you can expect Booker to have fantastic value this year, and because of that, I'd temper my expectations for Chambers putting up some of these gaudy numbers some people expect from him this year.

 

[cscmtp]

the answer is Santana Moss, who handily outperformed both last year.

 

[icehouse]

Is there a thread anywhere about WR rankings in PPR leagues? I did a search and kept getting errors.

I'm in a PPR league and am targeting Wayne.

 

[joffer]

I like Wayne, but i think Driver has moved into this tier, and moved ahead of Chambers in ppr.

 

[mrspree15]

Wayne. Chambers couldn't catch a cold, and would need 160 targets again to wind up with 80 catches.

Ah...he had 82 catches last year guy.

Right. And he had 166 targets. So like I said, in order to catch 80 balls this year, he would need 160 targets AGAIN.

Wayne. Chambers couldn't catch a cold, and would need 160 targets again to wind up with 80 catches.

Chambers has great hands.

For someone with such great hands, he sure sucks at catching the ball.2005- 49% catch rate.

2004- 50% catch rate.

2003- 49% catch rate.

How does these catch rate are calculate?Does a poor throw from a bad QB count like a drop ??

Chambers never had a QB like culpepper before.....

Catches divided by Targets = catch%.Before you start blaming Chambers' catch% on his QBs, you should know that Lee Evans had a 53% catch% with J.P. Losman (worse QB). Arnaz Battle caught 59% with Alex Smith, Ken Dorsey, Tim Rattay, and Cody Pickett (worse QBs). Andre Johnson has put up 55%, 58%, and 55% with David Carr (and has a better ypr over that 3-year span, to boot). And Johnson didn't even have a credible WR2 drawing coverages (like Chambers has in Booker, a pro-bowler).

Besides, Gus Frerotte isn't chopped liver here. He's played 11 NFL seasons, which is something that scrubs simply do not accomplish. Also, I seem to recall his presence not hurting Rod Smith or Ed McCaffrey any as they become the second pair of teammates to catch 100 balls each (they caught 58% and 68% that year, despite Frerotte starting 7 games).

Then again, Marty Booker has put up 45% and 48% in his Miami years. In Chicago he had 50%, 58%, 64%, 63%. Maybe its his skills declining, maybe its Miami's QBs. However, I still believe Chambers doesnt have the best hands.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Wayne hands down. Wayne has been slowly getting better every year. This preseason its begining to look like Harrison is taking the backseat to Wayne as the #1. Dont get me wrong Harrison is still great, I'm just saying Wayne broke out as a legitimate #1 last year IMO. This preseason it seems as if Peyton understands its time for Wayne to step up and Harrison to be more of the possession guy. Just my observation.Now Chris Chambers.. Ive always thought he was good but not great.Was it becasue hes never had a great QB, I dont know.Was it becasue hes never had a coach that was big on passing I dont know.Last year was the 1st time he stepped up as a top WR. I am not knit picking but his stats last year are padded by a couple 200+ yards games I think he had a couple 3+ TD games. Hes not a consistent, yet at least. I would not be 1 bit suprised if Chambers falls back into the good but not great category of WR's (see Keyshaun Johnson and L. Coles, Mushin Muhammed)Wayne I think is undervalued where he ranks currently on almost every projection sheet I see.Top 10 WR for Wayne this year Top 25 For Chambers.

This is what I don't get. People talk about these two guys like all Chambers has going for him is the new QB, and Wayne has been outperforming him for years. Where is that coming from?These guys came into the league the same year, and have played roughly the same number of games (69 starts vs. 64 starts). Chambers has more yards (4600 vs. 4164) and more touchdowns (39 vs. 28). Chambers has two double digit TD seasons and Wayne has one double digit TD season. Chambers' best season was 1200/11 and Wayne's was 1200/12.Chambers only has one year as a top WR, and that's a knock? Wayne has only been a top WR one year as well.What we have here is two guys who to this point have put up pretty similar fantasy numbers. One guy remains in a fairly steady situation which should see a bit more passing but is still the #2 option and has always had a great QB, and the other moves into a much better situation with the first good QB he's ever had throwing to him and one that has locked onto a talented WR in the past.Both guys put up similar numbers when one was in a great situation and the other was in a miserable situation. That miserable situation now becomes a decently good one, so if they were close to equal before doesn't a huge improvement in situation bolster Chambers to the top between these two?

 

[creeps1313]

Chambers has looked pretty good tonight....4 catches in the first half...and a TD negated by a weak offensive PI call.

 

[Darth Cheney]

Chambers is going to be all world this year. Mark it!

 

[phowler13]

Wayne. Chambers couldn't catch a cold, and would need 160 targets again to wind up with 80 catches.

you see those catches tonight??

 

[jurb26]

Wayne. Chambers couldn't catch a cold, and would need 160 targets again to wind up with 80 catches.

you see those catches tonight??

SSOG still with the shtick. Least I hope it's shtick. I mean he claims to actually watch Mia games.

 

[mrspree15]

Chambers has always made the spectacular catchh, remember the one handed TD he had last year?

 

[bostonfred]

I like Wayne, but i think Driver has moved into this tier, and moved ahead of Chambers in ppr.

Do you think Driver will do better than he did last year? I can't see why he would.

 

[Scruff Mcgruff]

I like Wayne, but i think Driver has moved into this tier, and moved ahead of Chambers in ppr.

Do you think Driver will do better than he did last year? I can't see why he would.

Healthier run game. well hopefully

 

[bostonfred]

I like Wayne, but i think Driver has moved into this tier, and moved ahead of Chambers in ppr.

Do you think Driver will do better than he did last year? I can't see why he would.

Healthier run game. well hopefully

So the whole upside case for Driver is that the rising tide of Ahman and Gado will lift all boats? Why are those two getting drafted so late then?

 

[Scruff Mcgruff]

I like Wayne, but i think Driver has moved into this tier, and moved ahead of Chambers in ppr.

Do you think Driver will do better than he did last year? I can't see why he would.

Healthier run game. well hopefully

So the whole upside case for Driver is that the rising tide of Ahman and Gado will lift all boats? Why are those two getting drafted so late then?

Not that they will lift all boats, but if they are even a little bit better than the hobbled backfield of last season it would be an improvement... I agree that Driver doesn't have the most upside, but its hard to find him doing any worse than last season either. I think he will finish around the same, which makes him still undervalued in PPR leagues.

 

[JAMMIN]

Chambers looked awesome tonight but Wayne looked great in his last preseason game. Can I have them both.

 

[joffer]

I like Wayne, but i think Driver has moved into this tier, and moved ahead of Chambers in ppr.

Do you think Driver will do better than he did last year? I can't see why he would.

no, about the same.

 

[SSOG]

Wayne. Chambers couldn't catch a cold, and would need 160 targets again to wind up with 80 catches.

you see those catches tonight??

SSOG still with the shtick. Least I hope it's shtick. I mean he claims to actually watch Mia games.

Every single one of them. How many do you watch?Chambers is Brandon Lloyd with more hype. People who don't watch the games think he's a superstud because of all the highlight catches they see him making on sportscenter. All of the Miami fans who I know agree that he's drastically overrated because of all the balls he drops.

 

[Domination]

2 ywaes ago T.O. had the most drops in the NFL, and I don't think many people thought that he was overrated. Chambers has been getting better every year, with no help from his QBs. Thos year he has C-pep, and he is going to be huge. I think that he will challenge for the Top 5.

 

[Armando]

Wayne. Chambers couldn't catch a cold, and would need 160 targets again to wind up with 80 catches.

you see those catches tonight??

SSOG still with the shtick. Least I hope it's shtick. I mean he claims to actually watch Mia games.

Chambers is Brandon Lloyd with more hype.

Perhaps in theory. I think Chambers is quite a bit faster and athletic however.I think I'd handle Chambers's drops (and the big plays) vs. Muhammad's drops (and his plodding possession receiving ###)

 

[icehouse]

Chambers looked awesome tonight but Wayne looked great in his last preseason game. Can I have them both.

You can if you have a top 3 pick (2/3 turn).

 

[SSOG]

2 ywaes ago T.O. had the most drops in the NFL, and I don't think many people thought that he was overrated. Chambers has been getting better every year, with no help from his QBs. Thos year he has C-pep, and he is going to be huge. I think that he will challenge for the Top 5.

T.O. has proven that it's possible to be top-10 with a horrible catch%... but if 9 out of 10 top-10 WRs have a 58+% catch%, historically... then why on earth would I gamble on a WR with a 50% catch% instead of a comparable WR with a 60% catch%?I'm not saying that it's impossible for Chambers to be a top-10 WR with his inconsistancies. His TDs are definitely a step in the right direction- TO managed to make the top 10 thanks to his huge TD numbers. So Chambers has that going for him. I just think he's a bigger risk/gamble type play than the guys being drafted around him.

Wayne. Chambers couldn't catch a cold, and would need 160 targets again to wind up with 80 catches.

you see those catches tonight??

SSOG still with the shtick. Least I hope it's shtick. I mean he claims to actually watch Mia games.

Chambers is Brandon Lloyd with more hype.

Perhaps in theory. I think Chambers is quite a bit faster and athletic however.I think I'd handle Chambers's drops (and the big plays) vs. Muhammad's drops (and his plodding possession receiving ###)

All I have to say to that is 93/1405/16 (15.1 ypr).

 

[Armando]

2 ywaes ago T.O. had the most drops in the NFL, and I don't think many people thought that he was overrated. Chambers has been getting better every year, with no help from his QBs. Thos year he has C-pep, and he is going to be huge. I think that he will challenge for the Top 5.

T.O. has proven that it's possible to be top-10 with a horrible catch%... but if 9 out of 10 top-10 WRs have a 58+% catch%, historically... then why on earth would I gamble on a WR with a 50% catch% instead of a comparable WR with a 60% catch%?I'm not saying that it's impossible for Chambers to be a top-10 WR with his inconsistancies. His TDs are definitely a step in the right direction- TO managed to make the top 10 thanks to his huge TD numbers. So Chambers has that going for him. I just think he's a bigger risk/gamble type play than the guys being drafted around him.

Wayne. Chambers couldn't catch a cold, and would need 160 targets again to wind up with 80 catches.

you see those catches tonight??

SSOG still with the shtick. Least I hope it's shtick. I mean he claims to actually watch Mia games.

Chambers is Brandon Lloyd with more hype.

Perhaps in theory. I think Chambers is quite a bit faster and athletic however.I think I'd handle Chambers's drops (and the big plays) vs. Muhammad's drops (and his plodding possession receiving ###)

All I have to say to that is 93/1405/16 (15.1 ypr).

Oh geez, you're saying Moose > Chambers. Ok, now you're nuts man.

 

[Judge Smails]

Chambers looked awesome tonight but Wayne looked great in his last preseason game. Can I have them both.

You can if you have a top 3 pick (2/3 turn).

Exactly what I'm thinking. LJ, then two out of Boldin/Chambers/Wayne. I think I can get a reasonable RB2 at 4.12, and then have flexibility at 5.1...3rd WR, top 3 Qb, etc.

 

[SSOG]

Perhaps in theory. I think Chambers is quite a bit faster and athletic however.I think I'd handle Chambers's drops (and the big plays) vs. Muhammad's drops (and his plodding possession receiving ###)

All I have to say to that is 93/1405/16 (15.1 ypr).

Oh geez, you're saying Moose > Chambers. Ok, now you're nuts man.

Actually, I'm pretty sure that I never once said that. I was just pointing out that Chambers has not exactly cornered the market on big plays here. If "plodding possession receivers" who are lacking "big plays" wind up with 15 ypr and 16 scores, then I'd hate to see what a quality WR would manage to do in that offense.Moose may not be the best WR in the league, but calling him a "plodding possession receiver" is disingenuous.

 

[Armando]

Perhaps in theory. I think Chambers is quite a bit faster and athletic however.I think I'd handle Chambers's drops (and the big plays) vs. Muhammad's drops (and his plodding possession receiving ###)

All I have to say to that is 93/1405/16 (15.1 ypr).

Oh geez, you're saying Moose > Chambers. Ok, now you're nuts man.

Moose may not be the best WR in the league, but calling him a "plodding possession receiver" is disingenuous.

Not at all. Saw him 16 games last year. He was horrendous. The fact he's our best receiver sucks. He's a solid blocker, I will give him that.To each his own. I'll go off what I saw all last year. You can go off what he did 3 years ago if you want.