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What kind of roll? Like a dinner roll? Something you might mop up your ravioli sauce with?
If he gets 20 carries including goal line duty in that offense I don't think top 10 is out of the question.
Hehehe...IMO, the Cards giving Edge zero carries sends a pretty clear message. I doubt Edge is done in the sense that he'll still get on the field and get a few touches, but Hightower is the man there now. For FF purposes, at least for this year; I'd say Edge is all but worthless.
I don't know, I can think of at least 15 RB's I'd rather have than Hightower. Arizona is a passing team and doesn't run block well. I wouldn't be shocked if last week's game is the best game he has all season. They won't play the Rams every week.
Ditto
I still think top 10 is a stretch. Not out of the question, but it's reaching.Prior to the Rams game, his YPC was atrocious. He looked great against the Rams, and I've got high hopes for him going forward. But it's the Rams. There are 6 RBs this season that put up more fantasy points against the Rams than did Hightower, and that's in only 8 games! Portis (26)Westbrook (21)Julius Jones (20)Duckett (20)Bradshaw (19)Barber (17)Hightower (17)Faulk (17)(I've rounded cause I'm lazy)The Rams have made many a halfback look very good; and not all those backs are very good. Like I said, I'm optimistic but I think Hightower owners should be happy with a top 15 finish and hold the top 10, top 5 talk until after he's got a couple more starts under his belt.
Very few RBs carry the load completely by themselves. It's pretty silly to suggest that Arizona won't find any use for James at all. He'll get touches but Hightower is the man there.
No chance? No chance that you're right. Is their any RB in the league that gets 100% of the carries? The question is not if, but who will be RB2 in Arizona; JJ or Edge will take touches and may have minimal value in deep leagues.
I think we've gotten to the point that Edge is just not that good anymore and I wouldn't be judging the abilities of the Oline to run block based on his performance.And while he doesn't play St Louis every week, he does have SEA (21st v run), SF (19th) and STL (29th) left on the schedule.Plenty of points to be had as a spot start where he probably will outperform "top 15" RBs.
Do you realize that alot of these games were played before Jim Haslett took over and the Rams made some improvements in all phases of the game?
The Hightower love is getting pretty out of control on this board. Many teams are going to a committee approach even if the starter is better than the backup in all of those areas. I don't see how you can discount that risk to zero. That is especially true in this situation where Hightower has averaged, what, 3.4 yards per carry so far? He has seventy carries. You don't know if he is going to have fumble problems or injury problems in the future. You don't know if Edge is going to kiss and make up with the coaching staff. There are lots of variables here that suggests the Cards RB position could still be in flux. You can think otherwise, but that doesn't make it so.
The question WAS about a RBBC - not whether other backs would get some carries.
If by "alot" you mean "3", then yes. The rest were all after Haslett took over. It hasn't had a significant impact on opposing RB fantasy points. Anything else?
I would not read too much in TH's YPC, considering his primary role prior to last week was goaline.Unless you have issues at RB I would wait one more week before I start him, however tempting it may be.
Ok, let's remove all his short-yardage carries from the equation. From weeks 1-8, here's Hightower's stat line on carries with 4 or more yards to go:31 carries, 84 yards: 2.56YPC
I still think its misleading because of the amount of carries Hightower has probably had deep in the RZ where defenses are more likely to crowd the box
What are you guys smoking today? There is a big difference between spelling the starter for a couple carries... and splitting carries. I was obviously responding to the topic of the thread (maybe you guys should read it).Just like Nate... talking about Hightower's awful YPC before this game. I guess he is the only person who follows the NFL who didn't know that Hightower was basically only used in short yardage, and goaline situations. That doesn't exactly bode well for your YPC. However... had he followed this more closely... he would have known that in those short yardage situations, Hightower was more successful than any other RB in the league. He gets one start... and he blows up. I have said this from day one... the man runs like Marion Barber, but with more explosiveness. He is going to be something special. I am certainly not basing this on one good game against the Rams... I am basing this on what I have seen from him.Did you know that he didn't fumble the ball one time in college? Not once in almost 700 carries.
Why on earth should we "take that carry" away? Why do people always say that? So... if we pretend like he doesn't have big play ability... then he looks worse? Gotcha...Come to think of it... if you take away Barry Sander's big runs throughout his career... he wasn't all that impressive either. Not comparing Hightower to Barry... but I think maybe you will get the point.
What if you add another 30 yds carry?
Better yet, cut his total in half & Double it.
What if you add another 30 yds carry?Better yet, cut his total in half & Double it.
The points I was trying to make is that he should have had a hell of a lot more yards against the Rams then he did for the amount of carries. The other point was that you just don't phase out your original starting RB(Edge) unless he is injured or really pi$$ed off the coach. I'm guessing it was the latter because he wasn't listed on the injury report. That being said, nobody on this board knows if Edge will just sit the rest of the year. We are all guessing. And my guess was that he will eventually share carries with Hightower and Arrington on passing downs once things calm down in Arizona.What if you add another 30 yds carry?Better yet, cut his total in half & Double it.
I think that teams are just really going with the trend of giving yourself the best chance to win. Look how many rookies are being thrown in there this year, and producing. QB's, RB's, WR's.... these rookies are breathing new life into their teams. Hightower gives the Cards a much more dangerous running game than Edge does. I am not saying that Edge won't see any carries... but he definitely won't be splitting them with him. Look how fast the Bengals were to throw Benson in there and completely shut Chris Perry out. Teams seem to be less tolerable to underperformers right now. Especially ones like Edge who have came out in public and bad mouthed their coaching staff.The points I was trying to make is that he should have had a hell of a lot more yards against the Rams then he did for the amount of carries. The other point was that you just don't phase out your original starting RB(Edge) unless he is injured or really pi$$ed off the coach. I'm guessing it was the latter because he wasn't listed on the injury report. That being said, nobody on this board knows if Edge will just sit the rest of the year. We are all guessing. And my guess was that he will eventually share carries with Hightower and Arrington on passing downs once things calm down in Arizona.What if you add another 30 yds carry?
Even though your logic is very flawed, the fact remains that Hightower looks better than Edge.
i wouldn't necessarily read too much into that. It might say more about his poor reaction to hightower satrting. Kind of like a one game coach suspension. Now if it happens again this weekend....But I am seeing edge dropped in a few leagues. I gotta think he has too much value not to stash for a week or 2. Even if only for injury reasons, as Hightower is still a rookie.
Exactly what I was thinking.
Parells would sit him for a while. Wisenhunt (being a rookie HC) might not have the stones for that. Like I said in last post, last game was very likely the penalty for that comment. How Edge responds this week in practice could reverse that. IF this is the case, this could be a rare opportunity to pick up a "name" RB2 on the WW.
He is not a terrible option. I am running in to big-time problems in a few leagues with Barber/Portis on bye, Reggie/S-Jax out. I am toying with JJ, Hillis, and Darby at the moment.
If you had followed this thread more closely, you'd see that I was talking about his YPC on carries where he needed 4 yards or more.I don't know why everyone is so convinced that Hightower was Arizona's designated goalline/short yardage guy, and that's all he did. It just isn't true. That's his specialty, for sure, and he's very good on those runs - not debating that. But Arizona also gave Hightower the ball on 25% of the carries with 4 yards or more to go, all season, before Edge was benched.WiDDoW_MaKeR said:
on 31 carries.
I'm not sure why you are so insistent on saying he does not have the skill and that he will be good based upon opportunity only. That really doesn't make sense because Edge had the opportunity and couldn't do anything with it.And looking at 31 carries at various times in the game for a backup RB is not a good way to judge. Everyone in Arizona knew this was coming. Sportswriters who saw Hightower in training camp reported it then. It has been talked about constantly in Phoenix for the past 10 weeks. People who have seen him run and seen him practice knew the change was coming. The Cards running game has looked like crap all year until last week. His 30 yard TD was the longest run for AZ since JJ Arington had a 32 yard run in 2005. He brings an explosiveness through between the tackles that AZ has not had in a long time.If you had followed this thread more closely, you'd see that I was talking about his YPC on carries where he needed 4 yards or more.I don't know why everyone is so convinced that Hightower was Arizona's designated goalline/short yardage guy, and that's all he did. It just isn't true. That's his specialty, for sure, and he's very good on those runs - not debating that. But Arizona also gave Hightower the ball on 25% of the carries with 4 yards or more to go, all season, before Edge was benched.WiDDoW_MaKeR said:
And he wasn't that good. On those 4+ yards-to-go carries, he had 2.84 YPC, 0TDs, and 3 first downson 31 carries.
Someone else brought up the possibility that even those numbers don't tell the story, because near the goal, defenses would stack the box in fear of Hightower. Personally I thought it was reaching, but checked it out the numbers anyway. Here's Hightower's stat line before Edge was benched; on carries with 4 yards+ to go, outside the opponent's 20 (this is getting silly). 24/75, 3.12 YPC, 3 first downs.
There are only 72 RBs in the league with a better YPC in those same situations (with 10 such carries or more) this season. It's not the defense stacking the box, it's not that all he did was carry on short yardage. He just doesn't have the talent to be a truly elite running back (yet).
I'm sorry, but I laughed out loud at "Barber with more explosiveness". Exploding into what? The line of scrimmage? That #### is sig-worthy.
But please don't get me wrong. I think top 15 going forward is within Hightower's grasp (which alone makes him a huge find), and I think he gets better as the season wears on and he gets more of the action. Defenses have to respect Arizona's passing attack so he won't see many 8 man fronts, and he plays in the NFC West. He's going to be good based on opportunity though, not skills.
WiDDoW_MaKeR (ugh that is painful to type), why don't you start a thread of guys who aren't top 5 RBs going forward, that would probably quicker to get through.
He may have been pissed initially - it may still be personal with him and Whisenhunt, but I still get the impression from this quote that personal feelings aside he is content to let Tim take over his job and to support him in the process.Hipple said:
U don't know the edge then. he's pissed.
