Chase Utley, Phillies, 23 game hit streak (1 Viewer)

[Chaz McNulty]

Official scorer Mike Smith initially ruled it a fielder's choice - the scoreboard nevertheless credited a hit - but after watching replays Smith changed his call to a hit. Smith cited section 10.06 of the Official Baseball Rules, which states that a hit should be scored when a fielder looks or feints at a base before throwing late.

"My gut reaction was Flores' hesitation allowed him to beat the throw," Smith said. "In the end, the hit was the right call, and it's backed up by the rule book."

If you disagree with the call, then you simply don't know baseball.

This is hilarious. Read the ACTUAL rule (LINK)

10.06

A base hit shall not be scored in the following cases:

(a) When a runner is forced out by a batted ball, or would have been forced out except for a fielding error;

(b) When the batter apparently hits safely and a runner who is forced to advance by reason of the batter becoming a runner fails to touch the first base to which he is advancing and is called out on appeal. Charge the batter with a time at bat but no hit;

© When the pitcher, the catcher or any infielder handles a batted ball and puts out a preceding runner who is attempting to advance one base or to return to his original base, or would have put out such runner with ordinary effort except for a fielding error. Charge the batter with a time at bat but no hit;

(d) When a fielder fails in an attempt to put out a preceding runner, and in the scorer’s judgment the batter-runner could have been put out at first base.

NOTE: This shall not apply if the fielder merely looks toward or feints toward another base before attempting to make the putout at first base;

(e) When a runner is called out for interference with a fielder attempting to field a batted ball, unless in the scorer’s judgment the batter-runner would have been safe had the interference not occurred.

You did catch the not in there, right? So the scorer misread the rulebook.

Are you saying it was a hit or wasn't a hit??? According to the rule it should be a hit.A base hit shall not be scored in the following cases:

(d) When a fielder fails in an attempt to put out a preceding runner, and in the scorer’s judgment the batter-runner could have been put out at first base.

NOTE: This shall not apply if the fielder merely looks toward or feints toward another base before attempting to make the putout at first base;

 

[The Jerk]

clean hit.

Seahawk fans will argue that both of those hits were errors. The official scorekeeper probably grew up in Philadelphia. It's a conspiracy by MLB to sell more merchanidse.

Are you still bitter that 90% of America felt that the Superbowl was served up to the Steelers by the officials. Get over it, you won the Superbowl.

Nope, but thanks for reminding me that the Steelers won SB XL. It never gets old, and the funny thing is that no matter how many times the game gets reviewed and debated, the Steelers end up winning.Good to see you posting again, Chaz. Not bitter, but the experience has made me acutely aware of fan reaction and overreaction to officiating and scoring decisions. It just keeps getting worse. Missed you in the thread after the Heat won the NBA Finals. Many similar complaints there as to how the officials gave the series to the Heat. Earlier this week, fridayfrenzy was whining again about SB XL officiating in a BGP-started thread. Otherwise, it wouldn't have even been on my mind.Keep on believing what you want, Chaz, especially if it makes you feel better.

 

[Das Boot]

A base hit shall not be scored in the following cases:

(d) When a fielder fails in an attempt to put out a preceding runner, and in the scorer’s judgment the batter-runner could have been put out at first base.

NOTE: This shall not apply if the fielder merely looks toward or feints toward another base before attempting to make the putout at first base;

Wow, not sure I agree with the way the rule is written, but according to the wording that was a hit.

 

[The Jerk]

Official scorer Mike Smith initially ruled it a fielder's choice - the scoreboard nevertheless credited a hit - but after watching replays Smith changed his call to a hit. Smith cited section 10.06 of the Official Baseball Rules, which states that a hit should be scored when a fielder looks or feints at a base before throwing late.

"My gut reaction was Flores' hesitation allowed him to beat the throw," Smith said. "In the end, the hit was the right call, and it's backed up by the rule book."

If you disagree with the call, then you simply don't know baseball.

This is hilarious. Read the ACTUAL rule (LINK)

10.06

A base hit shall not be scored in the following cases:

(a) When a runner is forced out by a batted ball, or would have been forced out except for a fielding error;

(b) When the batter apparently hits safely and a runner who is forced to advance by reason of the batter becoming a runner fails to touch the first base to which he is advancing and is called out on appeal. Charge the batter with a time at bat but no hit;

© When the pitcher, the catcher or any infielder handles a batted ball and puts out a preceding runner who is attempting to advance one base or to return to his original base, or would have put out such runner with ordinary effort except for a fielding error. Charge the batter with a time at bat but no hit;

(d) When a fielder fails in an attempt to put out a preceding runner, and in the scorer’s judgment the batter-runner could have been put out at first base.

NOTE: This shall not apply if the fielder merely looks toward or feints toward another base before attempting to make the putout at first base;

(e) When a runner is called out for interference with a fielder attempting to field a batted ball, unless in the scorer’s judgment the batter-runner would have been safe had the interference not occurred.

You did catch the not in there, right? So the scorer misread the rulebook.

Are you saying it was a hit or wasn't a hit??? According to the rule it should be a hit.A base hit shall not be scored in the following cases:

(d) When a fielder fails in an attempt to put out a preceding runner, and in the scorer’s judgment the batter-runner could have been put out at first base.

NOTE: This shall not apply if the fielder merely looks toward or feints toward another base before attempting to make the putout at first base;

I'm saying it should NOT be a hit. The NOTE uses the wording "merely looks toward or feints toward another base" but in the play, the pitcher took multiple short steps toward third base.OK, his momentum was heading that way. However, the way a scorer should look at this play is to gauge how the play unfolds if there was no runner at third base. There is no way the pitcher takes that many steps toward third base if there is no runner there. To me, the rule is misapplied (perhaps that's a better choice than my earlier word -- misread). The scorer can claim that in his judgment this qualified ONLY as looking toward or feinting toward third base.

Ultimately, I guess it's a judgment call.

Let's put a poll up on ESPN and see what the nation thinks -- that's always completely accurate and unbiased.

(inspired by your comments, Chaz)

 

[videoguy505]

Sure, the pitcher took steps toward third, but that was very much by momentum of catching the ball. The pitcher starts slowing down within a step of catching the ball, his momentum is carrying him to third but he doesn't make as if he's going there with a purpose. I watched the replay on ESPN.com a few times and I don't think the pitcher could have turned 180 degrees and thrown more than one step earlier. He had to run toward third to catch the ball anyway. One step is within the realm of "feint".

 

[The Jerk]

Sure, the pitcher took steps toward third, but that was very much by momentum of catching the ball. The pitcher starts slowing down within a step of catching the ball, his momentum is carrying him to third but he doesn't make as if he's going there with a purpose. I watched the replay on ESPN.com a few times and I don't think the pitcher could have turned 180 degrees and thrown more than one step earlier. He had to run toward third to catch the ball anyway. One step is within the realm of "feint".

You might be right. I played baseball for 20 years and pitched for 10 of those years. My reaction on scoring decisions for this type of play automatically defaults to my experience as a pitcher. If no one was on base, would that have ended up being a hit or not. My interpretation is that I believe the pitcher makes that play most of the time, especially with no one on base. Occasionally, the pitcher might stumble or throw wild by releasing the ball before he is completely set. That might earn the batter a hit.In any case, I'm not an official scorer or anything. I can admit to being a little too emphatic in my earlier declaration concerning the decision. I think we agree that it comes down to how one defines feint. Like many officiating/scoring decisions, a good argument can be made either way, but ultimately, it has to be decided one way or another -- there is no middle ground. It really doesn't matter in terms of the streak. I'm actually hoping he keeps it going awhile.

 

[Sonny Lubick Blowup Doll]

FWIW, I think your argument about him taking the steps towards third, BEFORE the feint, is what was missed there. I agree with that. So, I still don't think that's a hit.

 

[The Jerk]

FWIW, I think your argument about him taking the steps towards third, BEFORE the feint, is what was missed there. I agree with that. So, I still don't think that's a hit.

I'm leaning that way, too, but there certainly is room for debate. That's what makes it fun!!

 

[pantagrapher]

I went to bed thinking they'd scored that a fielder's choice.

 

[Darth Cheney]

First controversy.... that was a hit.

Second controversy..... that was an error.

 

[shuke]

A consecutive game hitting streak shall not be terminated a sacrifice bunt. The streak shall terminate if the player has a sacrifice fly

wtf's the difference here?

Bunt is an intentional sacrifice.

 

[Ibis81]

Feinting toward the based could include taking steps toward it. I think the point of the note is that not actual attempt is made to put the other runner out e.g. no throw is made or no attempt to tag the runner is made.

 

[shuke]

56 1941 Joe DiMaggio New York Yankees

44 1897 Willie Keeler Baltimore Orioles

44 1978 Pete Rose Cincinnati Reds

42 1894 Bill Dahlen Chicago Cubs

41 1922 George Sisler St. Louis Browns

40 1911 Ty Cobb Detroit Tigers

39 1987 Paul Molitor Milwaukee Brewers

38 2005/06 Jimmy Rollins Philadelphia Phillies

37 1945 Tommy Holmes Boston Braves

36 1894 Billy Hamilton Philadelphia Phillies

35 2002 Luis Castillo Florida Marlins

35 1895 Fred Clarke Louisville Colonels

35 1917 Ty Cobb Detroit Tigers

34 1925 George Sisler St. Louis Browns

34 1938 George McQuinn St. Louis Browns

34 1949 Dom DiMaggio Boston Red Sox

34 1987 Benito Santiago San Diego Padres

34 2006 Chase Utley Philadelphia Phillies

 

[TenTimes]

#35 already a done deal

 

[pantagrapher]

No real drama tonight.

 

[TenTimes]

No real drama tonight.

i'm wondering how long until ESPN starts cutting away to each Chase Utley at bat for the untelevised games

 

[shuke]

56 1941 Joe DiMaggio New York Yankees

44 1897 Willie Keeler Baltimore Orioles

44 1978 Pete Rose Cincinnati Reds

42 1894 Bill Dahlen Chicago Cubs

41 1922 George Sisler St. Louis Browns

40 1911 Ty Cobb Detroit Tigers

39 1987 Paul Molitor Milwaukee Brewers

38 2005/06 Jimmy Rollins Philadelphia Phillies

37 1945 Tommy Holmes Boston Braves

36 1894 Billy Hamilton Philadelphia Phillies

35 2002 Luis Castillo Florida Marlins

35 1895 Fred Clarke Louisville Colonels

35 1917 Ty Cobb Detroit Tigers

35 2006 Chase Utley Philadelphia Phillies

 

[Mr Dingles]

No real drama tonight.

i'm wondering how long until ESPN starts cutting away to each Chase Utley at bat for the untelevised games

I thought they were already talking about doing that?

 

[sts911911]

clean hit.

Seahawk fans will argue that both of those hits were errors. The official scorekeeper probably grew up in Philadelphia. It's a conspiracy by MLB to sell more merchanidse.

Are you still bitter that 90% of America felt that the Superbowl was served up to the Steelers by the officials. Get over it, you won the Superbowl.

Nope, but thanks for reminding me that the Steelers won SB XL. It never gets old, and the funny thing is that no matter how many times the game gets reviewed and debated, the Steelers end up winning.Good to see you posting again, Chaz. Not bitter, but the experience has made me acutely aware of fan reaction and overreaction to officiating and scoring decisions. It just keeps getting worse. Missed you in the thread after the Heat won the NBA Finals. Many similar complaints there as to how the officials gave the series to the Heat. Earlier this week, fridayfrenzy was whining again about SB XL officiating in a BGP-started thread. Otherwise, it wouldn't have even been on my mind.



Keep on believing what you want, Chaz, especially if it makes you feel better.

I think you have this backwards...

 

[Jayrok]

He's got a great swing, and I'm pulling for him. But he's getting to the point where the media will hound him with all sorts of attention before each game and after. Lots of pressure he's under that will only continue to mount. I hope he can keep it up and keep this a great story in the coming weeks.

Sincerely,

Captain Obvious

 

[TenTimes]

No real drama tonight.

i'm wondering how long until ESPN starts cutting away to each Chase Utley at bat for the untelevised games

I thought they were already talking about doing that?

cool. makes me wish i had one of those ESPN phones so they could buzz me everytime he's up to bat and i could watch the pitch by pitch updates

 

[The Jerk]

clean hit.

Seahawk fans will argue that both of those hits were errors. The official scorekeeper probably grew up in Philadelphia. It's a conspiracy by MLB to sell more merchanidse.

Are you still bitter that 90% of America felt that the Superbowl was served up to the Steelers by the officials. Get over it, you won the Superbowl.

Nope, but thanks for reminding me that the Steelers won SB XL. It never gets old, and the funny thing is that no matter how many times the game gets reviewed and debated, the Steelers end up winning.Good to see you posting again, Chaz. Not bitter, but the experience has made me acutely aware of fan reaction and overreaction to officiating and scoring decisions. It just keeps getting worse. Missed you in the thread after the Heat won the NBA Finals. Many similar complaints there as to how the officials gave the series to the Heat. Earlier this week, fridayfrenzy was whining again about SB XL officiating in a BGP-started thread. Otherwise, it wouldn't have even been on my mind.



Keep on believing what you want, Chaz, especially if it makes you feel better.

I think you have this backwards...

sts911911,I believe you were on Chaz' side during the massive debates on SB XL officiating. You also can believe what you want. If you truly believe 90% of the fans and sportswriters believe that SB XL was given to the Steelers, then nothing I say will change your mind. However, you're disregarding the FINAL numbers on the ESPN poll (not the backlash that was seen by angry Seattle fans the first day or two after the game). LINK As you can see, only 32% of the respondents claim the calls were the biggest factor in the game. As for media, you can post several articles backing your claim and I can post the same number citing the reverse. Proves nothing either way.

What I find most illuminating is the 40 or so FBGs with 16 different favorite NFL teams -- i.e., NOT Steeler fans --who joined Steeler fans in defending the officiating in full or in part. Check the thread for yourself and see what you think concerning:

roadkill 1292, Sideline Merc (Ravens)

Bears Man 2, GRIDIRON ASSASSIN, boubucarow (Bears)

BigRed (Colts)

Pony Boy, Shredhead, Elway Lives (Broncos)

j3r3m3y (Dolphins)

biglare66, Chaos Commish, B-Deep (Cowboys) – probably also Darth Chaney

Scott72, vitaflo, Ditkaless Wonders (Packers)

Mik789fl (Giants)

Nerangers, KitFisto, zoni, ChromeWeasel, PMENFAN (Patriots) – probably also thorn2000

Preacher1 (Vikings)

Sinrman, TwinTurbo, Spartans Rule, steviey (Lions)

tattoofan (Texans)

massraider (Raiders)

stbugs (Redskins)

footballhead (Chiefs)

Me & My Uncle (Eagles)

Additional members such as Keys Myaths, Men-in-Cleats, fruity pebbles, Just Win Baby, Cal Bear, pettifogger, Challenge Everything made similar posts, but I do not know their favorite team.

I won't guess as to your motivation in trying to disparage the Steelers and their fans. However, based on the fact that 68% of the nation and FBGs with 16 other favorite NFL teams felt the officiating was not exceptionally noteworthy, you might need to try another approach.

 

[snorlax]

Sign me up for the Packers on that list. Also, wrong forum and :honda:.

 

[The Jerk]

Also, wrong forum and :honda:.

Sort of, but see post #150

 

[The Jerk]

Shut up

Great argument here! (assuming you're trying to prove Shick! wrong about how classy Seahawk fans are)

 

[The Jerk]

Shut up

Great argument here! (assuming you're trying to prove Shick! wrong about how classy Seahawk fans are)

psst - I've gone on record as saying the steelers are the champs, they made the plays to win the game and their trophy is in no way tainted. Congratulations to them.That said, I wouldn't mind a BillLeavyskin rug for Christmas.

All sparring aside, you HAVE been classy, proninja. I'm going to keep football out of Chase Utley's thread from here on out.

 

[Billy Bats]

Go Chase go!!! What a classy, grind it out, hard nosed baseball player. A pure hitter who definitely has a shot to take this alot longer. I hope he makes a run at it.

And he refuses to talk about it after games, he's not self absorbed by any means.

I'm thinking if it hits 40 games, then ESPN will be interrupting programming to televise his ab's.

 

[JuniorNB]

Go Chase go!!! What a classy, grind it out, hard nosed baseball player. A pure hitter who definitely has a shot to take this alot longer. I hope he makes a run at it. And he refuses to talk about it after games, he's not self absorbed by any means. I'm thinking if it hits 40 games, then ESPN will be interrupting programming to televise his ab's.

Could you imagine if it were a Yankee or a Red Sox? They would probably have an ESPN3- All Chase all the time.

 

[Billy Bats]

Go Chase go!!! What a classy, grind it out, hard nosed baseball player. A pure hitter who definitely has a shot to take this alot longer. I hope he makes a run at it. And he refuses to talk about it after games, he's not self absorbed by any means. I'm thinking if it hits 40 games, then ESPN will be interrupting programming to televise his ab's.

Could you imagine if it were a Yankee or a Red Sox? They would probably have an ESPN3- All Chase all the time.

Are you implying that ESPN takes the Yanks/Sox rivalry a little too far?! Yea good point, considering it's happening in the hated city of Philadelphia, we might not get live ab's until game 53.

 

[dirtyhalos]

now a member of TEAM Ulillillia.......way to go Chase!!!! and welcome aboard

 

[JuniorNB]

Go Chase go!!! What a classy, grind it out, hard nosed baseball player. A pure hitter who definitely has a shot to take this alot longer. I hope he makes a run at it. And he refuses to talk about it after games, he's not self absorbed by any means. I'm thinking if it hits 40 games, then ESPN will be interrupting programming to televise his ab's.

Could you imagine if it were a Yankee or a Red Sox? They would probably have an ESPN3- All Chase all the time.

Are you implying that ESPN takes the Yanks/Sox rivalry a little too far?! Yea good point, considering it's happening in the hated city of Philadelphia, we might not get live ab's until game 53.

Not even then.Just a banner at the bottom while he's batting with 55. :(

 

[Don Quixote]

Nice play by Valentin to get Utley in the top of the 7th. 0-4 now. Should get up again in the 9th though.

 

[JaxBill]

0-for-5 in the 9th after a K, looks like the streak is over.

 

[avoiding injuries]

0-for-5 in the 9th after a K, looks like the streak is over.

It may never be broken.

 

[Oaktown]

Sucks.....Over. Very disappointing

 

[Kiddnets]

After the recent BS "breaking" of the Maris HR record and the coming "breaking" of the all time HR record - I for one am glad that a great old time record is withstanding the tests of time (and steroids!).

GB Joe D!!!!

 

[Das Boot]

 

[prosopis]

After the recent BS "breaking" of the Maris HR record and the coming "breaking" of the all time HR record - I for one am glad that a great old time record is withstanding the tests of time (and steroids!).GB Joe D!!!!

 

[The Jerk]

To Chase:

 

[shuke]

PETE ROSE FOREVER!!!!!

 

[MrPhoenix]

PETE ROSE FOREVER!!!!!

Did Pete Rose screw Marylin Monroe too?

 

[TenTimes]

good run.

 

[Alias]

update?

Manny currently at 26 games

 

[TenTimes]

update?

Manny currently at 26 games

spoiler alert:

nobody gives a shart about manuel ramirez, the streak, or the red sock team

 

[Alias]

28 games

Manny =

 

[shuke]

28 gamesManny =

Didn't he go 0 or 3 today?

 

[Limp Ditka]

28 gamesManny =

Didn't he go 0 or 3 today?

 

[shuke]

28 gamesManny =

Didn't he go 0 or 3 today?

I think he had a walk. What's the ruling here? What is Alias talking about?