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Chicago: Tax Hell (1 Viewer)

Chadstroma

Footballguy
Between Chicago, Cook County and Illinois- this has to be the highest taxation in the country. #2 highest property taxes (maybe they are trying to snag that #1 spot?) in the nation, the highest sales tax in the nation and not cheap income tax (roughly middle in range in the country). More taxes on the way and the basically no one seems to be against the taxes as long as you tax the 'other' guy.
Council support for Emanuel tax hikes shows city's geographic, racial divides
John Byrne, Bill Ruthhart
5:36 am, September 19, 2015

As Mayor Rahm Emanuel prepares to ask the City Council for a series of tax increases both big and small, he's finding that support from aldermen in many cases is breaking down along Chicago's economic, geographic and racial divides.

City Council members representing the South and West Sides are more comfortable with the idea of voting for a record property tax hike than a new garbage pickup fee. The homes in those wards tend to be worth less, so the property tax bite would be smaller, and Emanuel is trying to get Springfield to shield people whose homes are worth less than $250,000 from the effects. A garbage fee, on the other hand, could mean $11 a month out of every homeowner's pocket.

The dynamic is the opposite for aldermen in more affluent parts of the city. Homes tend to be more valuable downtown and on the North Side, so a property tax hike hits harder, and taxpayers there would not be afforded as much protection under Emanuel's plan. A garbage fee doesn't cut as deep, and many residents live in high-rises that already pay private waste haulers.

For Emanuel, the differing political perspectives require a balancing act as he tries to collect the 26 votes for approval. The mayor needs the property tax to make a massive increase in police and firefighter pension payments, but he also wants the garbage fee to help close a year-to-year budget gap. Adjusting the size of each tax hike could prove key.

In a testament to the difficulty of putting together a coalition of aldermen to support a spending package that will hit Chicagoans' pocketbooks harder than any in recent memory, the Emanuel administration was working Friday to make changes to the monthly garbage fee proposal to exempt senior citizens in a bid to bring members of the City Council's black caucus and others opposed back into the fold. The move came as the mayor unveiled another proposal to raise the cost of ride-booking and taxi rides by 50 cents and increase the base cab fare by 15 percent.

Still, the property tax hike and new garbage fee remained at the forefront of the political calculus for aldermen ahead of Emanuel's budget speech Tuesday.

"My colleagues in the (black) caucus, they understand — no one likes any of the taxes — but they understand the property tax can be fairly distributed across the board, and those that are probably best able to pay usually can pay their property taxes, as opposed to the other fees that we're talking about," said South Side Ald. Roderick Sawyer, 6th. "So from talking to most of my colleagues, the consensus is that they'd rather live with a fair-sized property tax increase."

Downtown Ald. Brendan Reilly is finding it more difficult to vote for a steep property tax hike.

"A lot of people assume that downtown residents are multimillionaires who are taking baths in nickels and dimes, and that's just not the case," said Reilly, 42nd. "There's certainly some very wealthy people who live downtown, but I'd argue there's at least as many or more who made an investment here decades ago, have since retired and are now living on fixed income. Those are the constituents I hear from, sharing their concerns about a gigantic property tax increase, and I think there are legitimate concerns about whether folks will be able to afford to stay in the units they own."

Property tax hikes like the historically huge one Emanuel is poised to spring on Chicago residents traditionally are seen as a third rail of the city's politics, a vote aldermen desperately try to avoid taking because of the outraged reaction they're certain to get from voters.

Emanuel has been considering a property tax increase of $450 million to $550 million, and how much owners would pay depends on how much their home is worth. If a $500 million property tax increase had been in place this year, the tax bill on a home worth $250,000 would have increased by about $470. On a home worth $500,000, the bill would have increased by about $995.

As part of his move to make a property tax increase "fair and equitable," Emanuel is seeking an increase from the state on the size of the homestead exemption that essentially would freeze or lower city taxes in the short term for homes valued at less than $250,000.

To illustrate why it's easier for some South and West side aldermen to vote for a property tax hike, consider the case of Sawyer. The black caucus chairman lives in the 6th Ward, which is centered on middle-class Chatham, a South Side bastion of police officers, firefighters and other city workers. Yet Sawyer said his home is assessed below $250,000, which would make him eligible for the freeze.

Even if Emanuel's bid to get Gov. Bruce Rauner to raise the homestead exemption fails, Sawyer still would expect his property tax increase to be less than a homeowner whose property has a higher assessed value.

West Side Ald. Jason Ervin, 28th, said it will be tougher for African-American aldermen to sell constituents on an $11-a-month garbage collection fee than the property tax increase.

"However, you're still dealing with the stigma of a tax increase, so it's six in one hand, a half-dozen in the other," Ervin said. "But at the end of the day, I think piling on a garbage fee on top of a property tax increase would disproportionately impact most African-American communities."

And freshman West Side Ald. Michael Scott Jr., 24th, said residents already feel as though they're facing death by a thousand cuts with red light camera and speed camera tickets, increased water and sewer fees and other small levies that help the city's bottom line but don't offer them tangible benefits. Scott said he's worried about presenting those constituents a budget built on garbage fees and other taxes that quickly add up for people struggling to make ends meet.

"What I am hearing is, they don't want to be nickel-and-dimed, and if we're going to go with a property tax raise, let's make sure they're informed, let's make sure they're educated and let's make sure we're able to give them more services when we're raising our taxes," Scott said. "They're always complaining about the lack of services in our communities, especially the communities of color."

Aldermen representing areas where property is worth more are looking at the revenue options from the other side of the coin.

Lakeview Ald. Tom Tunney, 44th, said it will be difficult for many aldermen to vote for such a large tax increase when the money will be dedicated to making pension payments and not new projects or services they can highlight for their constituents.

Tunney, who owns the Ann Sather restaurants, said he opposes Emanuel's push for a property tax exemption to shield some homeowners because it would hurt owners of commercial property who would have to shoulder more of the tax burden.

Commercial properties are taxed at 2 1/2 times the rate of residences, so the owner of a commercial property worth $250,000 this year received a tax bill of nearly $11,600. That bill would go up by about $1,300 with a $500 million property tax increase, even before the cost of the increase was further shifted onto business owners by the mayor's homestead exemption.

"That is not attractive to me," Tunney said. "I get the social good, but that's not appropriate, and wouldn't be appropriate to a vast majority of my property owners."

Freshman Ald. Brian Hopkins won election in the new 2nd Ward that twists through several tony North Side neighborhoods on a platform that included strict opposition to a property tax increase. He said he's sticking to that position for now even as Emanuel, who got 77 percent of the vote in the ward in the April runoff election, looks for aldermanic support for his budget plan.

"The 2nd Ward is among a number of wards that is among donor wards," Hopkins said. "They generate much more in revenue for all sources for the city's operating coffers than they get back in services. You're already contributing more than your fair share when you realize that, so there's a reluctance to contribute even more, when you look at it that way."

A sign that Emanuel is lobbying aldermen more aggressively than with past budgets and tax hikes is his discussions with the council's progressive caucus. That group of aldermen has included some of the mayor's fiercest elected critics.

Northwest Side Ald. John Arena, 45th, said the group has had two face-to-face meetings with Emanuel so far and is encouraged that the mayor is seeking the tax exemption, which is consistent with their push to make whatever revenue is raised weigh more heavily on the city's wealthiest.

"We didn't have that conversation the last four years, which is a big part of the issues that I had, but now we do and that's a good thing and I'm optimistic about that," said Arena, 45th. "I'm encouraged that we're being heard. I think our ideas are valid, and the fact that he's listening shows he's grown in the position, which I appreciate."
http://my.chicagotribune.com/#section/544/article/p2p-84465487/

 
No Republican footprints in this State in 60 years. Promising everything for votes always has an expiration date; like who is going to pay for the free stuff that we gave away to get elected.

 
Not surprised. The city's been broke since Daley part deux and they've sold off various income streams (parking meters, etc.) so they can spend like drunken sailors on their pet social programs and upgrades for the failed Olympic bid. The're in hock deeper than Thornton quarry and businesses are leaving in droves.

Time to pay the piper, Rahm.

 
Having to provide government services is a #####.
Shtick?
No, thanks - I've had plenty of yours already!
No seriously - you can't be that uninformed about IL, can you?
Do you live in IL? Have any relatives there? If not, how many times have you traveled there?
Relatives AND I live in Milwaukee, so I've been there only about 1000 times. I know, not much. :shrug:

 
Having to provide government services is a #####.
Shtick?
No, thanks - I've had plenty of yours already!
No seriously - you can't be that uninformed about IL, can you?
Do you live in IL? Have any relatives there? If not, how many times have you traveled there?
I would advise you to look elsewhere to defend your liberal social net. Chicago is an example of 50+ years of democratic-led mismanagement and cronyism.
 
Having to provide government services is a #####.
Shtick?
No, thanks - I've had plenty of yours already!
No seriously - you can't be that uninformed about IL, can you?
Do you live in IL? Have any relatives there? If not, how many times have you traveled there?
I would advise you to look elsewhere to defend your liberal social net. Chicago is an example of 50+ years of democratic-led mismanagement and cronyism.
:goodposting:

Why do you think he's trying to deflect with "look, squirrel!"? Can't have people focusing on the truth when we can blame it on something other than 50+ years of democrat rule. That would be too much to bear.

 
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The solution is to tell the law abiding humans to get out and put a fence around Chicago and cut your loses. Makes it Escape From Chicago. Give it about a year and most remaining residents will be dead. Then rebuild.

 
The solution is to tell the law abiding humans to get out and put a fence around Chicago and cut your loses. Makes it Escape From Chicago. Give it about a year and most remaining residents will be dead. Then rebuild.
Not sure if the surronding areas could handle the 1,000 or so people left flooding into their areas.

 
The solution is to tell the law abiding humans to get out and put a fence around Chicago and cut your loses. Makes it Escape From Chicago. Give it about a year and most remaining residents will be dead. Then rebuild.
Not sure if the surronding areas could handle the 1,000 or so people left flooding into their areas.
:D It's either that or those 1000 people need to come up with a lot more $ to pay taxes. What a cesspool.

 
Here is the most painful quote for the people effected by this:

"And freshman West Side Ald. Michael Scott Jr., 24th, said residents already feel as though they're facing death by a thousand cuts with red light camera and speed camera tickets, increased water and sewer fees and other small levies that help the city's bottom line but don't offer them tangible benefits."

So you get whacked in the wallet and get absolutely nothing in return for it...ouch...big Government at it's finest...

 
ugh.... that is a whole nother 'tax' in Chicago.

I found it impossible to go a whole year without a ticket of some sort. Heck, if I made it 6 months without some form of ticket it was amazing. The list of tickets was insane. A few were 'alright, you got me' but a whole bunch were 'I am being punked right now, right?'. Too close to a stop sign, too far from the curb, overnight no parking zones, red light, expired city sticker, expired license plate stickers, having a truck, and of course- street cleaning.

Moved to the burbs in 2012 and now 3 years later.... ticket free.

 
Here is the most painful quote for the people effected by this:

"And freshman West Side Ald. Michael Scott Jr., 24th, said residents already feel as though they're facing death by a thousand cuts with red light camera and speed camera tickets, increased water and sewer fees and other small levies that help the city's bottom line but don't offer them tangible benefits."

So you get whacked in the wallet and get absolutely nothing in return for it...ouch...big Government at it's finest...
Aren't they getting water and sewer?

 
ugh.... that is a whole nother 'tax' in Chicago.I found it impossible to go a whole year without a ticket of some sort. Heck, if I made it 6 months without some form of ticket it was amazing. The list of tickets was insane. A few were 'alright, you got me' but a whole bunch were 'I am being punked right now, right?'. Too close to a stop sign, too far from the curb, overnight no parking zones, red light, expired city sticker, expired license plate stickers, having a truck, and of course- street cleaning.

Moved to the burbs in 2012 and now 3 years later.... ticket free.
This does not surprise me.

 
Here is the most painful quote for the people effected by this:

"And freshman West Side Ald. Michael Scott Jr., 24th, said residents already feel as though they're facing death by a thousand cuts with red light camera and speed camera tickets, increased water and sewer fees and other small levies that help the city's bottom line but don't offer them tangible benefits."

So you get whacked in the wallet and get absolutely nothing in return for it...ouch...big Government at it's finest...
Aren't they getting water and sewer?
Obviously you did not read the article about where the money for these increases is going...

 
Having to provide government services is a #####.
Shtick?
No, thanks - I've had plenty of yours already!
No seriously - you can't be that uninformed about IL, can you?
Do you live in IL? Have any relatives there? If not, how many times have you traveled there?
Relatives AND I live in Milwaukee, so I've been there only about 1000 times. I know, not much. :shrug:
Sounds like you and I have roughly equivalent Chicago knowledge, although I've lived there and you have not. So what's your take on this story?

 
I'm perfectly happy here. I don't find the taxes that bad (and we just bought a house last year). Property taxes in my neighborhood are lower than the suburbs, even with the tax hike.

It's always funny how cranks move to suburbs with high taxes so they can have good schools and public services, but somehow it's an outrage when the same idea is applied to a big city. Good schools, good public transportation, snow removal, public works—all that stuff costs money. And in a big city it costs a lot of money.

If there's a villain here, it's Daley, whose parking meter deal and privatization of public stuff—including the skyway—effectively robbed the city of billions of dollars over the next 70 years. Billions.

 
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Here is the most painful quote for the people effected by this:

"And freshman West Side Ald. Michael Scott Jr., 24th, said residents already feel as though they're facing death by a thousand cuts with red light camera and speed camera tickets, increased water and sewer fees and other small levies that help the city's bottom line but don't offer them tangible benefits."

So you get whacked in the wallet and get absolutely nothing in return for it...ouch...big Government at it's finest...
Aren't they getting water and sewer?
Wait those are city services? I thought elves provided all that stuff.

 
I love the city, but this tax hike has me seriously considering selling my place. Between monthly condo assessments ($244/month - not bad for a building with indoor parking and an elevator) and my property taxes, I'm spending an extra $9,000 a year above and beyond my mortgage. My condo is not appreciating at that rate, so I'm losing money. My condo is a money pit and this deal only makes it worse.

Say goodbye to Hack Deck.

 
But at least with all those high taxes paying for very effective policing you have one of the lowest murder rates in the country. Right? Oh, wait......

 
It's only going to get worse. Their pension hole is huge.
They always attack the pensions.....
The pension situation is dire, but was of course avoidable with some basic common sense and planning. Poorly crafted rules allowed people to game the system. And meanwhile Daley never wanted to be the bad guy, so instead of a small tax increase 20 years ago, he decided to start selling municipal properties for way under their value so he could plug gaps. The bill has definitely come due for Rahm. He takes a beating, and my friends would hate to hear me say this, but I do support him. He's had to make some very unpopular decisions—closing schools, firing teachers, shuttering mental health facilities and now, raising taxes—but I think overall he's a smart guy and he's had a balanced approach to the budget problems.

 
But at least with all those high taxes paying for very effective policing you have one of the lowest murder rates in the country. Right? Oh, wait......
Says guy from Houston.
And?

Houston has a lower murder rate than Chicago. Houston's taxes are far less than Chicago.

My point was not to bash Chicago, per se, but to show you guys are not getting much bang for your buck. And that sucks.

 
Houston could easily get in financial trouble if it does not address its pensions for Police and Fire. Hopefully, we elect a mayor who is willing to take on that issue because it needs to be addressed. Any big city that is not addressing city pensions that were put in place years ago and give significantly more in retirement and health care benefits than cities can economically afford today, is in for a big financial mess.

 
dhockster said:
pantagrapher said:
dhockster said:
But at least with all those high taxes paying for very effective policing you have one of the lowest murder rates in the country. Right? Oh, wait......
Says guy from Houston.
And?

Houston has a lower murder rate than Chicago. Houston's taxes are far less than Chicago.

My point was not to bash Chicago, per se, but to show you guys are not getting much bang for your buck. And that sucks.
This taxes v. murder rate correlation you've seized on is fascinating.

 
dhockster said:
pantagrapher said:
dhockster said:
But at least with all those high taxes paying for very effective policing you have one of the lowest murder rates in the country. Right? Oh, wait......
Says guy from Houston.
And?

Houston has a lower murder rate than Chicago. Houston's taxes are far less than Chicago.

My point was not to bash Chicago, per se, but to show you guys are not getting much bang for your buck. And that sucks.
This taxes v. murder rate correlation you've seized on is fascinating.
Hey, if I am gonna pay high prices for something, I expect high quality in return. But hey, if you like what you got, who am I to complain?

 
pantagrapher said:
I'm perfectly happy here. I don't find the taxes that bad (and we just bought a house last year). Property taxes in my neighborhood are lower than the suburbs, even with the tax hike.

It's always funny how cranks move to suburbs with high taxes so they can have good schools and public services, but somehow it's an outrage when the same idea is applied to a big city. Good schools, good public transportation, snow removal, public works—all that stuff costs money. And in a big city it costs a lot of money.

If there's a villain here, it's Daley, whose parking meter deal and privatization of public stuff—including the skyway—effectively robbed the city of billions of dollars over the next 70 years. Billions.
Cook is actually a little better than Dupage, Will, etc on property taxes but not by much. I live in Cook. Do most of our shopping in Will. But I guess if your comparison is different areas in the greater Chicago area then I suppose taxes are not that bad. If you look in comparison to the rest of the country- it is hard to find an area that is taxed more than Chicago. Again, 2nd highest state for property taxes. The highest sales tax in the country, and roughly middle of the road for income tax. And don't forget all the extra other stuff like taxes in taxi's, trash removal, etc. which all seem to continue to go up.

 
pantagrapher said:
HellToupee said:
It's only going to get worse. Their pension hole is huge.
They always attack the pensions.....
The pension situation is dire, but was of course avoidable with some basic common sense and planning. Poorly crafted rules allowed people to game the system. And meanwhile Daley never wanted to be the bad guy, so instead of a small tax increase 20 years ago, he decided to start selling municipal properties for way under their value so he could plug gaps. The bill has definitely come due for Rahm. He takes a beating, and my friends would hate to hear me say this, but I do support him. He's had to make some very unpopular decisions—closing schools, firing teachers, shuttering mental health facilities and now, raising taxes—but I think overall he's a smart guy and he's had a balanced approach to the budget problems.
Rahm is taking the beatings for making hard decisions that have not been made for multiple decades. I didn't vote for Rahm and never thought I would say this of him when he came in as mayor but I think he is doing just about as good of a job as can be expected considering what he was handed. The city would have been better off having a troop of deaf, dumb and blind monkeys running the city than having Daley run it.

 

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