Chiefs to change offense (1 Viewer)

[x260bm]

Chiefs' Edwards dismisses quarterbacks coach Shea

By Len Pasquarelli

ESPN.com

Just days after indicating that he will rework the Kansas City playbook for 2007, Chiefs coach Herm Edwards has fired quarterbacks aide Terry Shea, a move that probably signals a major overhaul in the team's offensive design.

Shea, 60, had strong ties to former Chiefs coach **** Vermeil and was a devotee of onetime offensive coordinator Al Saunders. With Edwards determined to move in a different direction, and perhaps scrap much of the offense with which the former staff operated, the dismissal of Shea was not surprising.

Under coordinator Mike Solari, who has received Edwards' staunch support, the Chiefs' offense likely will become even more power-based. Solari was the team's offensive line coach before being promoted to the coordinator spot in 2006. Edwards wants to continue to run the ball, with tailback Larry Johnson clearly the centerpiece of the attack, but wants to be more aggressive throwing vertically.

A longtime developer of quarterbacks at the college level, Shea joined the Chiefs' staff under Vermeil in 2001. He left in 2004 to become the offensive coordinator of the Chicago Bears, but was fired after only one season, and returned to Kansas City in 2005.

When Edwards replaced the retired Vermeil in 2006, Shea was one of several assistants retained.

In addition to his NFL experience, Shea has an extensive college background, and served as head coach at San Jose State (1990-91) and Rutgers (1996-2000).

It remains to be seen how Shea's departure affects the status of Trent Green, who missed half the year as he recovered from a severe head injury sustained in the season opener. The two men are very close on and off the field.

Edwards indicated that Green will return as the starter in 2007. But at his age (36) and facing the prospect of a new offense, Green might be pressed for his starting job.

 

[Rovers]

Yeah, right. Edwards wants a power running game. Hey Hermie, you need an offensive line for that. This guy thinks he can will a bad group of offensive linemen into a power running game. Ignore the O line, pay the price. He ignored the O line in NY too. Result? Mangini had to spend TWO first round picks on offensive linemen, and they STILL need two more. I really feel sorry for Chiefs fans. This guy is a freakin incompetent idiot.

Sure, Solari has his support. Every time Edwards is asked about the offense, he talks about how Solari is a rookie OC. Staunch support? He's just getting him near the curb, so that when the bus comes.....

 

[imeimex]

I know that Shea worked under Vermeil and Saunders, but when he was offensive coordinator for Chicago his offense resembled a girls pop warner team. How guys like Shea and Jon Shoop continue to get jobs in this league is beyond me. I can't imagine that Shea was completely in control of the Chiefs offense this year, and the real problem probably stems from Edwards, but I would have to think this is a wise decision.

 

[flapgreen]

He has to fire someone to try and hide his incompetency.

 

[Spartans Rule]

Yeah, right. Edwards wants a power running game. Hey Hermie, you need an offensive line for that. This guy thinks he can will a bad group of offensive linemen into a power running game. Ignore the O line, pay the price. He ignored the O line in NY too. Result? Mangini had to spend TWO first round picks on offensive linemen, and they STILL need two more.

Herm ignored the OL in NY? Seriously?Herm had a nice O-line and a pretty successful running game with the Jets. Kevin Mawae, Pete Kendall, Jason Fabini... good group. The Jets had to rebuild the line because Mawae and Fabini left right after Herm did.

 

[Kevin Ashcraft]

KC needs to find 2-3 OL, preferably 2 OT's this offseason.....we re-built in 2001 and Priest ran for 1,555. We traded for Roaf, signed Weigmann, and moved Waters to Guard.

It can be done....

 

[Rovers]

Yeah, right. Edwards wants a power running game. Hey Hermie, you need an offensive line for that. This guy thinks he can will a bad group of offensive linemen into a power running game. Ignore the O line, pay the price. He ignored the O line in NY too. Result? Mangini had to spend TWO first round picks on offensive linemen, and they STILL need two more.

Herm ignored the OL in NY? Seriously?Herm had a nice O-line and a pretty successful running game with the Jets. Kevin Mawae, Pete Kendall, Jason Fabini... good group. The Jets had to rebuild the line because Mawae and Fabini left right after Herm did.

Um, wrong. Fabini was washed up in 2004. Mawae was 35, and Edwards had no backup center to step in if he went down. Instead, when Mawae got hurt, he moved Kendall to center, and over the next three games the Jets lost no less than 5 fumbles on the snap exchange. Kendall didn't know who HE was supposed to block, nevermind calling the blocking assignments for the rest of the O line. Having NO backup center is the DEFINITION of ignoring the O line. No small wonder the Jets QB's all got injured. Yes, Edwards almost COMPLETELY ignored the O line in NY. In his five years, the Jets spent ONE first day pick on an offensive lineman (and even that was a late thrid rounder). Bradway signed Kendall as an FA. I remember telling some Cowboy fans when they were all chits and giggles over getting Fabini this year how this guy was in a steep decline. He developed back probelms back in 2003, and was never the same.... even though he was only an average LT to begin with. What did Edwards do about the KC O line this year? ZILCH. Black got plugged in at LT, a position he simply suucks at. Did Edwards draft any O linemen? NOOOO. Will he? NOOOO. But, he wants to run a power run offense. The man is incompetent. He''l use all his picks on defense again. Watch. Learn.

 

[NYRAGE]

Yeah, right. Edwards wants a power running game. Hey Hermie, you need an offensive line for that. This guy thinks he can will a bad group of offensive linemen into a power running game. Ignore the O line, pay the price. He ignored the O line in NY too. Result? Mangini had to spend TWO first round picks on offensive linemen, and they STILL need two more.

Herm ignored the OL in NY? Seriously?Herm had a nice O-line and a pretty successful running game with the Jets. Kevin Mawae, Pete Kendall, Jason Fabini... good group. The Jets had to rebuild the line because Mawae and Fabini left right after Herm did.

Left? Is that new slang for got the boot?

 

[trader jake]

YOU COACH TO KILL AN OFFENSE!

The opponents and your own...good job year one Herm. We both know you can cripple this offense with just a few more tweaks.

 

[NYRAGE]

Yeah, right. Edwards wants a power running game. Hey Hermie, you need an offensive line for that. This guy thinks he can will a bad group of offensive linemen into a power running game. Ignore the O line, pay the price. He ignored the O line in NY too. Result? Mangini had to spend TWO first round picks on offensive linemen, and they STILL need two more.

Herm ignored the OL in NY? Seriously?Herm had a nice O-line and a pretty successful running game with the Jets. Kevin Mawae, Pete Kendall, Jason Fabini... good group. The Jets had to rebuild the line because Mawae and Fabini left right after Herm did.

Um, wrong. Fabini was washed up in 2004. Mawae was 35, and Edwards had no backup center to step in if he went down. Instead, when Mawae got hurt, he moved Kendall to center, and over the next three games the Jets lost no less than 5 fumbles on the snap exchange. Kendall didn't know who HE was supposed to block, nevermind calling the blocking assignments for the rest of the O line. Having NO backup center is the DEFINITION of ignoring the O line. No small wonder the Jets QB's all got injured. Yes, Edwards almost COMPLETELY ignored the O line in NY. In his five years, the Jets spent ONE first day pick on an offensive lineman (and even that was a late thrid rounder). Bradway signed Kendall as an FA. I remember telling some Cowboy fans when they were all chits and giggles over getting Fabini this year how this guy was in a steep decline. He developed back probelms back in 2003, and was never the same.... even though he was only an average LT to begin with. What did Edwards do about the KC O line this year? ZILCH. Black got plugged in at LT, a position he simply suucks at. Did Edwards draft any O linemen? NOOOO. Will he? NOOOO. But, he wants to run a power run offense. The man is incompetent. He''l use all his picks on defense again. Watch. Learn.

As much as I like to blame Hermie for just about everything under the sun including world hunger and lack of peace, we did have a GM during Herm's tenure. That was Bradway's fault.

 

[Ron_Mexico]

If only HermDog could dismiss himself.

 

[Rovers]

LOL.... both Fabini and Mawae got CUT. Mawae probably had another year left in him as an average center, an ex-pro bowler in decline, but here is the proof in the pudding. How many teams ever had such a dismal sitaution on the O line that with holes galore, still spent TWO first round picks on offensive linemen? None that I can ever recall. Aside from having to start both of those rookie picks, only Kendall and Moore started from what Edwards left in NY. Kenall is 33, and Moore isn't very good. Even with spending those two 1st round picks on offensive linemen, the Jets still need a RT and a RG.

To make things even worse, Edwards will move players on the O line all over the place. He seems to think every position is interchangable. In 2005, Adrian Jones started at RG, RT and LT. Now he's doing the same thing with Black in KC. Freeney made him look foolish in that playoff game.

Even though Edwards knew that both Shields AND Roaf could retire before the season started, what did he do about planning for that? At least filling the pipeline for their eventual replacements? ZERO. NADA. ZILCH. The man can;t even learn from his blatant mistakes. He's a moron.

Did anyone watch the "end of season" press conference at the Chief's site? When asked if they would go defense or offense in the draft, Edwards started rubbing Peterson's back, jokingly of course, about going all defense in the draft. This guy has taken a storied franchise in the Cheifs and sentenced them to five years of misery. Three to get fired, and two to rebuild. It's sad.

 

[HobbesAB]

Why would Peterson give into Herm on this? Isn't Peterson one of the better GMs? He would know that the O-line needs rebuilt. Right?

 

[Autumn Wind]

Hey Herm, anytime you want to bring the Chefs to the basement we're more than happy to move out.

 

[Couch Potato]

Yeah, right. Edwards wants a power running game. Hey Hermie, you need an offensive line for that. This guy thinks he can will a bad group of offensive linemen into a power running game. Ignore the O line, pay the price. He ignored the O line in NY too. Result? Mangini had to spend TWO first round picks on offensive linemen, and they STILL need two more.

Herm ignored the OL in NY? Seriously?Herm had a nice O-line and a pretty successful running game with the Jets. Kevin Mawae, Pete Kendall, Jason Fabini... good group. The Jets had to rebuild the line because Mawae and Fabini left right after Herm did.

Um, wrong. Fabini was washed up in 2004. Mawae was 35, and Edwards had no backup center to step in if he went down. Instead, when Mawae got hurt, he moved Kendall to center, and over the next three games the Jets lost no less than 5 fumbles on the snap exchange. Kendall didn't know who HE was supposed to block, nevermind calling the blocking assignments for the rest of the O line. Having NO backup center is the DEFINITION of ignoring the O line. No small wonder the Jets QB's all got injured. Yes, Edwards almost COMPLETELY ignored the O line in NY. In his five years, the Jets spent ONE first day pick on an offensive lineman (and even that was a late thrid rounder). Bradway signed Kendall as an FA. I remember telling some Cowboy fans when they were all chits and giggles over getting Fabini this year how this guy was in a steep decline. He developed back probelms back in 2003, and was never the same.... even though he was only an average LT to begin with. What did Edwards do about the KC O line this year? ZILCH. Black got plugged in at LT, a position he simply suucks at. Did Edwards draft any O linemen? NOOOO. Will he? NOOOO. But, he wants to run a power run offense. The man is incompetent. He''l use all his picks on defense again. Watch. Learn.

As much as I like to blame Hermie for just about everything under the sun including world hunger and lack of peace, we did have a GM during Herm's tenure. That was Bradway's fault.

Same thing in KC. I don't think much of Edwards as a coach either, but I don't believe anyone other than Carl Peterson runs the KC draft and free agency acquisition decisions. Edwards may have input, but managing the OL turnover is Peterson's job. Let's stick with blaming Edwards for wanting a simple offense because he is a simple mind. That I can and do agree with.

 

[x260bm]

Herm also shot JFK, started World War II, and created cancer.

Edwards took the Jets to the playoffs more times than any other coach they have ever had, and their fans act like he is the antichrist.

 

[softball]

Herm also shot JFK, started World War II, and created cancer.Edwards took the Jets to the playoffs more times than any other coach they have ever had, and their fans act like he is the antichrist.

Herm worked with the Bill Parcells left overs and did well, as soon as Herm and Bradaways selections were starters the Jets faded badly.He cannot coach, is probably the worst at clock management in the NFL and managed to keep Paul Hackett employed about 2 years longer than he should have.

 

[Couch Potato]

Herm also shot JFK, started World War II, and created cancer.Edwards took the Jets to the playoffs more times than any other coach they have ever had, and their fans act like he is the antichrist.

Herm worked with the Bill Parcells left overs and did well, as soon as Herm and Bradaways selections were starters the Jets faded badly.He cannot coach, is probably the worst at clock management in the NFL and managed to keep Paul Hackett employed about 2 years longer than he should have.

I'll add that Pennington had a lot more to do with the Jets' success than Edwards. Healthy in 2002 and 2004 (and 2006 after Herm left), they made the playoffs. Injured in 2003 and 2005, they were 6-10 and 4-12. Herm didn't seem able to adjust very well to losing Penny.

 

[GRIDIRON ASSASSIN]

Maybe Shea was an advocate of Trent Green, and Herm is ready to make a switch there as well....

 

[greenf7cat]

Why would Peterson give into Herm on this? Isn't Peterson one of the better GMs? He would know that the O-line needs rebuilt. Right?

Peterson is actually an awful GM. He doesn't spend any money on FA's (with the exception of Surtain and Law). He is also the one who makes the draft day decisions. The coaches have little say. Dickie Vermeil did everything he could to not draft LJ. Peterson is the one who drafted him (props on that one). Otherwise, he makes terrible decisions. Look at what the writers say about him on the Kansas City Star.

 

[The Jacket]

Did anyone watch the "end of season" press conference at the Chief's site? When asked if they would go defense or offense in the draft, Edwards started rubbing Peterson's back, jokingly of course, about going all defense in the draft. This guy has taken a storied franchise in the Cheifs and sentenced them to five years of misery. Three to get fired, and two to rebuild. It's sad.

News flash: the Chiefs had a mid-ranked offense and a mid-ranked defense.The defense needs as much work as the offense.Given how defense wins championships, it's not unreasonable to joke about it---and that IS all he was doing.

 

[The Jacket]

What did Edwards do about the KC O line this year? ZILCH. Black got plugged in at LT, a position he simply suucks at. Did Edwards draft any O linemen? NOOOO. Will he? NOOOO. But, he wants to run a power run offense. The man is incompetent. He''l use all his picks on defense again. Watch. Learn.

News flash #2: in April 2006, the Chiefs had a starting offensive line of Willie Roaf, Brian Waters, Casey Wiegmann, Will Shields and John Welbourne.It's not his fault that Roaf retired, Waters' play has been weaker than 2005, Wiegmann and Shields have finally declined massively due to age and Welbourne is being exposed for what he really is. Edwards brought in Kyle Turley, and the reward was certainly worth the minimal risk---NOT Edwards' fault that didn't pan out. Edwards also brought in Chris Terry who has been pretty solid at right tackle.News flash #3: Edwards DID draft an offensive lineman.Come back any time. I've got all night to school you some more.

 

[Rovers]

What did Edwards do about the KC O line this year? ZILCH. Black got plugged in at LT, a position he simply suucks at. Did Edwards draft any O linemen? NOOOO. Will he? NOOOO. But, he wants to run a power run offense. The man is incompetent. He''l use all his picks on defense again. Watch. Learn.

News flash #2: in April 2006, the Chiefs had a starting offensive line of Willie Roaf, Brian Waters, Casey Wiegmann, Will Shields and John Welbourne.It's not his fault that Roaf retired, Waters' play has been weaker than 2005, Wiegmann and Shields have finally declined massively due to age and Welbourne is being exposed for what he really is. Edwards brought in Kyle Turley, and the reward was certainly worth the minimal risk---NOT Edwards' fault that didn't pan out. Edwards also brought in Chris Terry who has been pretty solid at right tackle.News flash #3: Edwards DID draft an offensive lineman.Come back any time. I've got all night to school you some more.

Oh really now? Both Roaf and Shileds were retirement risks. Everyone and anyone knew that. Overall, the line was aging quickly. What did Peterson and Edwards do about that? So, KC drafted an O lineman? Oh yeah, Tre Stallings in the SIXTH round. Yeah, I guess Edwards really went out of his way to prepare for what was inevitable and obvious. Kyle freakin Turley? LMAO! Sure, yer schoolin me! You just keep tellin yerself "It's OK."

 

[HULLOBUDMAN]

What did Edwards do about the KC O line this year? ZILCH. Black got plugged in at LT, a position he simply suucks at. Did Edwards draft any O linemen? NOOOO. Will he? NOOOO. But, he wants to run a power run offense. The man is incompetent. He''l use all his picks on defense again. Watch. Learn.

News flash #2: in April 2006, the Chiefs had a starting offensive line of Willie Roaf, Brian Waters, Casey Wiegmann, Will Shields and John Welbourne.It's not his fault that Roaf retired, Waters' play has been weaker than 2005, Wiegmann and Shields have finally declined massively due to age and Welbourne is being exposed for what he really is. Edwards brought in Kyle Turley, and the reward was certainly worth the minimal risk---NOT Edwards' fault that didn't pan out. Edwards also brought in Chris Terry who has been pretty solid at right tackle.News flash #3: Edwards DID draft an offensive lineman.Come back any time. I've got all night to school you some more.

Oh really now? Both Roaf and Shileds were retirement risks. Everyone and anyone knew that. Overall, the line was aging quickly. What did Peterson and Edwards do about that? So, KC drafted an O lineman? Oh yeah, Tre Stallings in the SIXTH round. Yeah, I guess Edwards really went out of his way to prepare for what was inevitable and obvious. Kyle freakin Turley? LMAO! Sure, yer schoolin me! You just keep tellin yerself "It's OK."

1) Seriously, everyone has to quit blaming Herm for not drafting O-line. It's not his choice. King Carl makes the draft day calls. Not a democracy, it's a monarchy.2) No one knows what really happened but if you read the KC papers all offseason, Shields was the retirement risk while Roaf was talking Shields into coming back. No one, I repeat, no one expected 2005 to be Roaf's last year by April of 2006. Herm may turn the offense into a 3 yards and a cloud of dust offense. Herm may be a terrible game coach. He may be terrible at clock management. All I'm asking is don't blame him for things he had no or little control over.BTW, he lost his QB for quite a few games and had his LT retire a month before the season started but still made the playoffs and his team had a winning record. It seems strange how 4 out of his last 7 teams keeping make the playoffs in spite of him.

 

[Kevin Ashcraft]

What did Edwards do about the KC O line this year? ZILCH. Black got plugged in at LT, a position he simply suucks at. Did Edwards draft any O linemen? NOOOO. Will he? NOOOO. But, he wants to run a power run offense. The man is incompetent. He''l use all his picks on defense again. Watch. Learn.

News flash #2: in April 2006, the Chiefs had a starting offensive line of Willie Roaf, Brian Waters, Casey Wiegmann, Will Shields and John Welbourne.It's not his fault that Roaf retired, Waters' play has been weaker than 2005, Wiegmann and Shields have finally declined massively due to age and Welbourne is being exposed for what he really is. Edwards brought in Kyle Turley, and the reward was certainly worth the minimal risk---NOT Edwards' fault that didn't pan out. Edwards also brought in Chris Terry who has been pretty solid at right tackle.News flash #3: Edwards DID draft an offensive lineman.Come back any time. I've got all night to school you some more.

Oh really now? Both Roaf and Shileds were retirement risks. Everyone and anyone knew that. Overall, the line was aging quickly. What did Peterson and Edwards do about that? So, KC drafted an O lineman? Oh yeah, Tre Stallings in the SIXTH round. Yeah, I guess Edwards really went out of his way to prepare for what was inevitable and obvious. Kyle freakin Turley? LMAO! Sure, yer schoolin me! You just keep tellin yerself "It's OK."

1) Seriously, everyone has to quit blaming Herm for not drafting O-line. It's not his choice. King Carl makes the draft day calls. Not a democracy, it's a monarchy.2) No one knows what really happened but if you read the KC papers all offseason, Shields was the retirement risk while Roaf was talking Shields into coming back. No one, I repeat, no one expected 2005 to be Roaf's last year by April of 2006. Herm may turn the offense into a 3 yards and a cloud of dust offense. Herm may be a terrible game coach. He may be terrible at clock management. All I'm asking is don't blame him for things he had no or little control over.BTW, he lost his QB for quite a few games and had his LT retire a month before the season started but still made the playoffs and his team had a winning record. It seems strange how 4 out of his last 7 teams keeping make the playoffs in spite of him.

This Herm Edwards schtick is almost on the same level as the Peyton Manning crap. And it is started by the same type of people.Fact is that Shields was the retirement risk, not Roaf. I blame a lot of what happened this season on Roaf. Now, in the end, we still made the playoffs, so I cannot complain that much, but it definitely affected the Offense in 2006.And Peterson is not nearly as bad as some make him out to be re: the draft. I would say he is average @ the draft. Look @ some of his picks.1989.1 - Derrick Thomas.....Pro Bowler1990.2 - Tim Grunhard---......solid starter1990.7 - Dave Szott.....solid starter1992.1 - Dale Carter.....PB1993.1 - traded for Joe Montana....obvious1993.3 - Will Shields...PB1996.1 - Jerome Woods.......PB1996.2 - Reggie Tongue.....good starter1996.4 - Donnie Edwards......PB1996.5 - Joe Horn....PB1997.1 - Tony Gonzalez.....PB1998.7 - Eric Warfield......A starter in the 7th1999.1 - John Tait......PB 1998.3 - Gary Stills.....PB2000.5 - Dante Hall.....PB2001.1 - traded for Trent Green.....PB2002.5 - Scott Fujita - solid starter2003.1 - Larry Johnson...PB2003.2 - Kawika Mitchell - solid starter2004.4 - Jared Allen......solid starter2005.2 - traded for Patrick SurtianAnd as a free agent consumer, he has been decent.....Ty LawPat SurtainAndre Rison PBJames Hasty PBDan Saleamua PBPriest Holmes PBEddie Kennison Brian Waters PBKimble Anders PBSteve Bono PBMarcus Allen PBElvis Grbac PBDerrick AlexanderWillie Road PBTony Richardson PB

 

[Rovers]

What did Edwards do about the KC O line this year? ZILCH. Black got plugged in at LT, a position he simply suucks at. Did Edwards draft any O linemen? NOOOO. Will he? NOOOO. But, he wants to run a power run offense. The man is incompetent. He''l use all his picks on defense again. Watch. Learn.

News flash #2: in April 2006, the Chiefs had a starting offensive line of Willie Roaf, Brian Waters, Casey Wiegmann, Will Shields and John Welbourne.It's not his fault that Roaf retired, Waters' play has been weaker than 2005, Wiegmann and Shields have finally declined massively due to age and Welbourne is being exposed for what he really is. Edwards brought in Kyle Turley, and the reward was certainly worth the minimal risk---NOT Edwards' fault that didn't pan out. Edwards also brought in Chris Terry who has been pretty solid at right tackle.News flash #3: Edwards DID draft an offensive lineman.Come back any time. I've got all night to school you some more.

Oh really now? Both Roaf and Shileds were retirement risks. Everyone and anyone knew that. Overall, the line was aging quickly. What did Peterson and Edwards do about that? So, KC drafted an O lineman? Oh yeah, Tre Stallings in the SIXTH round. Yeah, I guess Edwards really went out of his way to prepare for what was inevitable and obvious. Kyle freakin Turley? LMAO! Sure, yer schoolin me! You just keep tellin yerself "It's OK."

1) Seriously, everyone has to quit blaming Herm for not drafting O-line. It's not his choice. King Carl makes the draft day calls. Not a democracy, it's a monarchy.2) No one knows what really happened but if you read the KC papers all offseason, Shields was the retirement risk while Roaf was talking Shields into coming back. No one, I repeat, no one expected 2005 to be Roaf's last year by April of 2006. Herm may turn the offense into a 3 yards and a cloud of dust offense. Herm may be a terrible game coach. He may be terrible at clock management. All I'm asking is don't blame him for things he had no or little control over.BTW, he lost his QB for quite a few games and had his LT retire a month before the season started but still made the playoffs and his team had a winning record. It seems strange how 4 out of his last 7 teams keeping make the playoffs in spite of him.

This Herm Edwards schtick is almost on the same level as the Peyton Manning crap. And it is started by the same type of people.Fact is that Shields was the retirement risk, not Roaf. I blame a lot of what happened this season on Roaf. Now, in the end, we still made the playoffs, so I cannot complain that much, but it definitely affected the Offense in 2006.And Peterson is not nearly as bad as some make him out to be re: the draft. I would say he is average @ the draft. Look @ some of his picks.1989.1 - Derrick Thomas.....Pro Bowler1990.2 - Tim Grunhard---......solid starter1990.7 - Dave Szott.....solid starter1992.1 - Dale Carter.....PB1993.1 - traded for Joe Montana....obvious1993.3 - Will Shields...PB1996.1 - Jerome Woods.......PB1996.2 - Reggie Tongue.....good starter1996.4 - Donnie Edwards......PB1996.5 - Joe Horn....PB1997.1 - Tony Gonzalez.....PB1998.7 - Eric Warfield......A starter in the 7th1999.1 - John Tait......PB 1998.3 - Gary Stills.....PB2000.5 - Dante Hall.....PB2001.1 - traded for Trent Green.....PB2002.5 - Scott Fujita - solid starter2003.1 - Larry Johnson...PB2003.2 - Kawika Mitchell - solid starter2004.4 - Jared Allen......solid starter2005.2 - traded for Patrick SurtianAnd as a free agent consumer, he has been decent.....Ty LawPat SurtainAndre Rison PBJames Hasty PBDan Saleamua PBPriest Holmes PBEddie Kennison Brian Waters PBKimble Anders PBSteve Bono PBMarcus Allen PBElvis Grbac PBDerrick AlexanderWillie Road PBTony Richardson PB

The "same type of people"? Pray tell. The comparison is extremely lame. Edwards deserves this sort of critisism. A very abbreviated list of reasons why:Edwards ran training camp like it was club Med. We in NY called it Camp Marshmellow. Sure, the Jets got riddled with injuries. Both Mawae and Fabini were lost for the season in 2005 with upper torso muscle tears. Is it a coincidence that in 2004 the Jets stregnth and conditioning coach quit because he said he wasn't getting Herm's support in forcing the players to follow the program? I saw up close and in person how soft those TC's were. High school football teams run MUCH tougher pre season practices. The player s were allowed to jog through wind sprints, which consisted of four 40 yard "sprints".The stretching excersizes were a joke. Half the players just sat on the field joking around and laughing. The CS didn't even bother to watch. Compare that to Mangini's camp. The coaches, every last one was out amoung the players, riding them if they weren't working, making sure their technique was right when they stretched. A coincidence that Edwards' teams were injury prone, and this year the Jets stayed healthy? I think not. Edwards swore he would never allow an injured player to risk his career, but he did it anyway. When Pennington reinjured his shoulder in 2005, and Fiedler went down, he put Pennington BACK into the same game just 7 offensive plays later, instead of putting the third string QB in there. When Martin badly injured his knee, Hermie kept playing him anyway, only to finally, later admit that he never "should have let Matrin play with torn ligaments in his knee." Despite Martin's injury, he still ran Martin into 9 in the box against the Ravens. That behind a patchwork offensive line. He allowed Hackett to take ALL of the heat for the playcalling, just like he's doing with Solari. We Jets fans were fooled. But when he fired Hackett and brought in Hiemerdinger, nothing changed, with the exception of an occassional shotgun formation being called once or twice a game. The man simply does not try to create mismatches and is unable to make any in game adjustments to his game plans, which are exactly the same every week. He's going to run LJ into the ground. He may be the easiest coach in the NFL to formualte a defensive game plan against. Edwards had a lot of input into what players the Jets drafted and signed. He went out and got Testaverde out of retirement.... that worked out real well. Because he catered to Ty Law, he was easy to sign in KC. Law was given Mondays off, and was regularly excused from team meetings and practices. Shall we go into the kneel down debacle at Pittsburgh? And then as always refused any responsability for it? Then threw his FG kicker under the bus? Or why he had to hire D Curl to manage the clock for him during games? Or how he attacked his RB coach on the sideline after the coach put Jordan in to give Martin a breather? And then fired the guy? Or how he annoints starters without competition? How about some of his quotes? "Any possession that ends in a kick is a good one." "Ohhhh, the shotgun, ohhhh, the shotgun, ohhh, the shotgun. Don't tell me about the stupid shotgun." Yeah, well when your O line is giving up sacks on 3 step drops, the shotgun might be a good thing to try Hermie. I could go on. There are reasons why so many Jets fans can't stand Edwards. Very valid reasons. Now, what was this about P Manning?

 

[The Jacket]

Oh really now? Both Roaf and Shileds were retirement risks. Everyone and anyone knew that. Overall, the line was aging quickly. What did Peterson and Edwards do about that?

Drafted the best players available. That's what smart teams do.And it's working out pretty well so far. I'll take Tamba Hali over anyone the Jets drafted.

So, KC drafted an O lineman? Oh yeah

Yeah. You were wrong.Anything else?

 

[NYRAGE]

Oh really now? Both Roaf and Shileds were retirement risks. Everyone and anyone knew that. Overall, the line was aging quickly. What did Peterson and Edwards do about that?

Drafted the best players available. That's what smart teams do.And it's working out pretty well so far. I'll take Tamba Hali over anyone the Jets drafted.

So, KC drafted an O lineman? Oh yeah

Yeah. You were wrong.Anything else?

From Great Blue North - Draft ReviewNew York Jets: There are a lot of reasons why the Jets went from top draft pick contenders to a playoff team in just one year, including the return of veteran QB Chad Pennington; don't forget the Jets' rookie class, though, which also made a major contribution. Both OT D'Brickashaw Ferguson and C Nick Mangold, the Jets' two #1 picks this year, for example, were mainstays along an improved offensive line all season. Ferguson, the 4th player selected this year, did a decent job manning the LT, although he struggled at times in pass protection. Indeed, a case can be made that Mangold, the 29th pick this year, actually outplayed Ferguson, however, the Jets hav both pencilled into their respective positions for the next decade. Meanwhile, the Jets really weren't expecting all that much from RB Leon Washington, their 4th rounder, but the former Florida State scatback helped ease the pain of the loss of veteran RB Curtis Martin, whose career may be over because of a knee injury, as he ran for 650 yards and added another 250 on 25 receptions. Meanwhile, both DB Eric Smith amd CB Drew Coleman, 3rd and 6th round picks respectively, provided some useful minutes on the other side of the ball where both had 27 tackles with Smith chipping in a couple of interceptions. And the Jets' special teams got a boost from 'slash' WR Brad Smith who was solid covering kicks and also contributed some plays from scrimmage... First-year grade: AKansas City… The Chiefs’ 2006 draft started and ended well but their wasn’t much in between. DE Tamba Hali, the team's first round pick, for example, was pretty much the same pas-rushing terror he was in college as the former Penn Stater racked up 8 sacks and also forced 6 fumbles in his rookie campaign in which he also had 62 tackles and an interception. Meanwhile, safety Jarrad Page, the Chiefs’ final pick in the 7th round, emerged as something of a find as he picked off three passes and had 35 tackles working mostly in situational packages. On the other hand, the Chiefs got very little productivity from their second through 6th rounds picks, although second round DB Bernard Pollard did emerge as a special team's star... First-year grade: B- And we got Mangini and Washington for dopey Herm.

 

[Rovers]

Oh really now? Both Roaf and Shileds were retirement risks. Everyone and anyone knew that. Overall, the line was aging quickly. What did Peterson and Edwards do about that?

Drafted the best players available. That's what smart teams do.And it's working out pretty well so far. I'll take Tamba Hali over anyone the Jets drafted.

So, KC drafted an O lineman? Oh yeah

Yeah. You were wrong.Anything else?

I don't consider a sixth round pick as anything of signifigance. BTW, I had no problem with the Hali pick at all. Pollard, with players like Whitworth, Chester, Trueblood, Winston and Sptitz still on the board didn't make much sense to me though. Those 5 O linemen had 49 starts between them this year. Then, when Peterson, or Edwards, or whoever took Croyle in the third, they left the likes of Jean-Gilles, Jahri Evans (16 starts for NO this year) Toledo, Sims, Whimper and Colon on the board.... yeah, I'd say waiting until the sixth round to take an O lineman is ignoring the O line. Edwards left the Jets with NO O line. The Jets didn't have much choice if they were to put a team on the field this year. I guess you also think, like Edwards that the offensive line should be ignored. Smart teams know that games are won and lost up front. If Pollard was all that, why didn't Edwards start him? Or Croyle for that matter when Green went down? Talk about a completely wasted pick. Croyle was the BAP? LOL. Heck, KC doesn't even have an O lineman on the freakin taxi squad! Stallings in the sixth? Even with all the problems on the Chiefs O line, he never played one down! But, that is about what you should come to expect. That's what Edwards did in NY too. The O line is the last thing he thinks about. Remember, any possession that ends in a kick is a good one!

 

[x260bm]

Oh really now? Both Roaf and Shileds were retirement risks. Everyone and anyone knew that. Overall, the line was aging quickly. What did Peterson and Edwards do about that?

Drafted the best players available. That's what smart teams do.And it's working out pretty well so far. I'll take Tamba Hali over anyone the Jets drafted.

So, KC drafted an O lineman? Oh yeah

Yeah. You were wrong.Anything else?

I don't consider a sixth round pick as anything of signifigance. BTW, I had no problem with the Hali pick at all. Pollard, with players like Whitworth, Chester, Trueblood, Winston and Sptitz still on the board didn't make much sense to me though. Those 5 O linemen had 49 starts between them this year. Then, when Peterson, or Edwards, or whoever took Croyle in the third, they left the likes of Jean-Gilles, Jahri Evans (16 starts for NO this year) Toledo, Sims, Whimper and Colon on the board.... yeah, I'd say waiting until the sixth round to take an O lineman is ignoring the O line. Edwards left the Jets with NO O line. The Jets didn't have much choice if they were to put a team on the field this year. I guess you also think, like Edwards that the offensive line should be ignored. Smart teams know that games are won and lost up front. If Pollard was all that, why didn't Edwards start him? Or Croyle for that matter when Green went down? Talk about a completely wasted pick. Croyle was the BAP? LOL. Heck, KC doesn't even have an O lineman on the freakin taxi squad! Stallings in the sixth? Even with all the problems on the Chiefs O line, he never played one down! But, that is about what you should come to expect. That's what Edwards did in NY too. The O line is the last thing he thinks about. Remember, any possession that ends in a kick is a good one!

Thank you for hijacking this thread! Also, congratulations on being the first person on my ignore list.

 

[Kevin Ashcraft]

Yep, any usefulness this thread has/had is now gone....

 

[Reaper]

Yep, any usefulness this thread has/had is now gone....

This thread wasn't going to get too deep with Innovative Offense talk.....Herm is implementing his RUN RUN DRAW offense.... Herm needs more Offensive linemen.Next. Sorry....

 

[Kevin Ashcraft]

Yep, any usefulness this thread has/had is now gone....

This thread wasn't going to get too deep with Innovative Offense talk.....Herm is implementing his RUN RUN DRAW offense.... Herm needs more Offensive linemen.Next. Sorry....

Oh, no I am sorry, sorry that this thread went from talking about KC, to Herm haters doing their normal thing. maybe every time we talk about KC, we need to come up with a code word for "Herman Edwards" so all the NY people who hate him don't see his name. Maybe that would help in the Peyton Manning threads as well.

 

[HULLOBUDMAN]

What did Edwards do about the KC O line this year? ZILCH. Black got plugged in at LT, a position he simply suucks at. Did Edwards draft any O linemen? NOOOO. Will he? NOOOO. But, he wants to run a power run offense. The man is incompetent. He''l use all his picks on defense again. Watch. Learn.

News flash #2: in April 2006, the Chiefs had a starting offensive line of Willie Roaf, Brian Waters, Casey Wiegmann, Will Shields and John Welbourne.It's not his fault that Roaf retired, Waters' play has been weaker than 2005, Wiegmann and Shields have finally declined massively due to age and Welbourne is being exposed for what he really is. Edwards brought in Kyle Turley, and the reward was certainly worth the minimal risk---NOT Edwards' fault that didn't pan out. Edwards also brought in Chris Terry who has been pretty solid at right tackle.News flash #3: Edwards DID draft an offensive lineman.Come back any time. I've got all night to school you some more.

Oh really now? Both Roaf and Shileds were retirement risks. Everyone and anyone knew that. Overall, the line was aging quickly. What did Peterson and Edwards do about that? So, KC drafted an O lineman? Oh yeah, Tre Stallings in the SIXTH round. Yeah, I guess Edwards really went out of his way to prepare for what was inevitable and obvious. Kyle freakin Turley? LMAO! Sure, yer schoolin me! You just keep tellin yerself "It's OK."

1) Seriously, everyone has to quit blaming Herm for not drafting O-line. It's not his choice. King Carl makes the draft day calls. Not a democracy, it's a monarchy.2) No one knows what really happened but if you read the KC papers all offseason, Shields was the retirement risk while Roaf was talking Shields into coming back. No one, I repeat, no one expected 2005 to be Roaf's last year by April of 2006. Herm may turn the offense into a 3 yards and a cloud of dust offense. Herm may be a terrible game coach. He may be terrible at clock management. All I'm asking is don't blame him for things he had no or little control over.BTW, he lost his QB for quite a few games and had his LT retire a month before the season started but still made the playoffs and his team had a winning record. It seems strange how 4 out of his last 7 teams keeping make the playoffs in spite of him.

This Herm Edwards schtick is almost on the same level as the Peyton Manning crap. And it is started by the same type of people.Fact is that Shields was the retirement risk, not Roaf. I blame a lot of what happened this season on Roaf. Now, in the end, we still made the playoffs, so I cannot complain that much, but it definitely affected the Offense in 2006.And Peterson is not nearly as bad as some make him out to be re: the draft. I would say he is average @ the draft. Look @ some of his picks.1989.1 - Derrick Thomas.....Pro Bowler1990.2 - Tim Grunhard---......solid starter1990.7 - Dave Szott.....solid starter1992.1 - Dale Carter.....PB1993.1 - traded for Joe Montana....obvious1993.3 - Will Shields...PB1996.1 - Jerome Woods.......PB1996.2 - Reggie Tongue.....good starter1996.4 - Donnie Edwards......PB1996.5 - Joe Horn....PB1997.1 - Tony Gonzalez.....PB1998.7 - Eric Warfield......A starter in the 7th1999.1 - John Tait......PB 1998.3 - Gary Stills.....PB2000.5 - Dante Hall.....PB2001.1 - traded for Trent Green.....PB2002.5 - Scott Fujita - solid starter2003.1 - Larry Johnson...PB2003.2 - Kawika Mitchell - solid starter2004.4 - Jared Allen......solid starter2005.2 - traded for Patrick SurtianAnd as a free agent consumer, he has been decent.....Ty LawPat SurtainAndre Rison PBJames Hasty PBDan Saleamua PBPriest Holmes PBEddie Kennison Brian Waters PBKimble Anders PBSteve Bono PBMarcus Allen PBElvis Grbac PBDerrick AlexanderWillie Road PBTony Richardson PB

The "same type of people"? Pray tell. The comparison is extremely lame. Edwards deserves this sort of critisism. A very abbreviated list of reasons why:Edwards ran training camp like it was club Med. We in NY called it Camp Marshmellow. Sure, the Jets got riddled with injuries. Both Mawae and Fabini were lost for the season in 2005 with upper torso muscle tears. Is it a coincidence that in 2004 the Jets stregnth and conditioning coach quit because he said he wasn't getting Herm's support in forcing the players to follow the program? I saw up close and in person how soft those TC's were. High school football teams run MUCH tougher pre season practices. The player s were allowed to jog through wind sprints, which consisted of four 40 yard "sprints".The stretching excersizes were a joke. Half the players just sat on the field joking around and laughing. The CS didn't even bother to watch. Compare that to Mangini's camp. The coaches, every last one was out amoung the players, riding them if they weren't working, making sure their technique was right when they stretched. A coincidence that Edwards' teams were injury prone, and this year the Jets stayed healthy? I think not. Edwards swore he would never allow an injured player to risk his career, but he did it anyway. When Pennington reinjured his shoulder in 2005, and Fiedler went down, he put Pennington BACK into the same game just 7 offensive plays later, instead of putting the third string QB in there. When Martin badly injured his knee, Hermie kept playing him anyway, only to finally, later admit that he never "should have let Matrin play with torn ligaments in his knee." Despite Martin's injury, he still ran Martin into 9 in the box against the Ravens. That behind a patchwork offensive line. He allowed Hackett to take ALL of the heat for the playcalling, just like he's doing with Solari. We Jets fans were fooled. But when he fired Hackett and brought in Hiemerdinger, nothing changed, with the exception of an occassional shotgun formation being called once or twice a game. The man simply does not try to create mismatches and is unable to make any in game adjustments to his game plans, which are exactly the same every week. He's going to run LJ into the ground. He may be the easiest coach in the NFL to formualte a defensive game plan against. Edwards had a lot of input into what players the Jets drafted and signed. He went out and got Testaverde out of retirement.... that worked out real well. Because he catered to Ty Law, he was easy to sign in KC. Law was given Mondays off, and was regularly excused from team meetings and practices. Shall we go into the kneel down debacle at Pittsburgh? And then as always refused any responsability for it? Then threw his FG kicker under the bus? Or why he had to hire D Curl to manage the clock for him during games? Or how he attacked his RB coach on the sideline after the coach put Jordan in to give Martin a breather? And then fired the guy? Or how he annoints starters without competition? How about some of his quotes? "Any possession that ends in a kick is a good one." "Ohhhh, the shotgun, ohhhh, the shotgun, ohhh, the shotgun. Don't tell me about the stupid shotgun." Yeah, well when your O line is giving up sacks on 3 step drops, the shotgun might be a good thing to try Hermie. I could go on. There are reasons why so many Jets fans can't stand Edwards. Very valid reasons. Now, what was this about P Manning?

Rovers,Please explain to me why you quote my post and Kevin's post which specifically address the fact that Herm should possibly be blamed for his coaching but not be blamed on Raof retiring and the draft. That is what was being discussed, please read through those posts again if you like. I have no problem with what you posted but it has nothing to do with the 2 prior posts. Just another Herm hate post. Being a Chief's fan, I have heard all of the Jets fan blast Herm ad nauseum since his hiring. Do us all a favor, give it a break. We understand. Jets fans don't like Herm. In my opinion, he has done just as much for us in one season as Vermiel did in all his seasons here.

 

[HULLOBUDMAN]

Herm also shot JFK, started World War II, and created cancer.Edwards took the Jets to the playoffs more times than any other coach they have ever had, and their fans act like he is the antichrist.

Herm worked with the Bill Parcells left overs and did well, as soon as Herm and Bradaways selections were starters the Jets faded badly.He cannot coach, is probably the worst at clock management in the NFL and managed to keep Paul Hackett employed about 2 years longer than he should have.

Mangini isn't working with Herm's leftovers?

 

[x260bm]

Herm also shot JFK, started World War II, and created cancer.Edwards took the Jets to the playoffs more times than any other coach they have ever had, and their fans act like he is the antichrist.

Herm worked with the Bill Parcells left overs and did well, as soon as Herm and Bradaways selections were starters the Jets faded badly.He cannot coach, is probably the worst at clock management in the NFL and managed to keep Paul Hackett employed about 2 years longer than he should have.

Mangini isn't working with Herm's leftovers?

Al Groh was the coach before Herm and Parcells was 8-8 in his last year.

 

[Rovers]

OK, yeah I did hijack the thread to some extent, I agree, and for that my apologies. However, I also find it difficult to seperate how the KC offense might change based on a QB coach firing. It will still have Edwards' fingerprints on it. He talked about changing the offense in NY but never did. He talked about NOT changing the offense at KC, but he did through the play calling.

I guess I just don't understand how a team can plan on a power running game when they don't have the horses up front for it. If a team wants to run against 8 or 9 in the box, don't you need a really good offensive line?

Someone tell me how the offense will change. I'm all ears. I'm not just trying to get KC fans up in arms here, I'm just having a deja vu experince. I understand KC fans not wanting to hear any more about Edwards, especially in a Chiefs forum, but this is a FF site. I think as long as Edwards is in KC, his philoshy will affect how well his players perform as far as FF goes. Does it mean Green may be on his way out? Is Croyle going to be the guy? Will he be allowed to throw much? Will LJ get run into the ground, affecting his dynasty value? Or not?

Some of the players complained about the play calling, it isn't unreasonable to mention that here, and that included LJ. I just don't see Edwards ever changing his base philosphy. That is to run. Mentioning the fact that the KC O line is aging, and the Chiefs didn't go after any offensive linemen (that could contribute) are intertwined topics. I however did go overboard when people start with the vieled insults about how I'm like Peyton Manning bashers. That's just silly. I happen to think Manning and Brady are clearly the two best QB's in the NFL.... but that's neither here nor there.

So, Ashcroft, thanks for the bait.... I took it and swam. Then you complain that I did. nice setup. Good job. Be proud.

 

[Kevin Ashcraft]

I didn't bait you.