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Clash of Clans (Official thread) (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter GregR
- Start date
=Smackdown=
Footballguy
Yeah - 105-102 in a 35 vs 35 war - they 3 starred every damn base.
Lot of the same type of attacks
Max AQ with 4 healers to begin
2-3 Hounds
18-22 Skulls
Couple Superfurs to take heat off AQ when it gets hairy. WB's to get AQ deeper.
One of the things I noticed is they are not hesitant to use spells on the AQ - rage on AQ/healer is super effective. Frreze on Infreno when AQ gets into Infreno range.
Attacks are ALL about the SuperQueen.
And every AQ walk starts at a corner near an Army Camp
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=Smackdown=
Footballguy
Dont know about that culd?
When I tried the AQ walk against their #3 last war my AQ got stuck on the corner camp. She kept shooting at the wall after the camp was destroyed becuase there was something closer.
AQ acts starnge around camps - its a big space and once destroyed ti looks for next closest.
culdeus
Footballguy
The base element that makes you the most vulnerable is having a string of point defenses 4 tiles or less from a wall with a deep core.
No TH10 is truly safe from a 3* now. They need to nerf rage affecting healers and maybe turn down the % available healing a healer does to a hero.
Of course, it will take a huge amount of time for this to sift down to casual clans. We already saw one queen walk just lolsmash one of our max bases for 3* and it was really poorly executed. If there was ever a threat of us winning a war I'd expect people to try more 3* TH10 stuff on us.
=Smackdown=
Footballguy
Yeah - no doubt that AQ walk gets nerfed somehow - most likley as soon as some of us start to figure it out.
Also can see those Dragon Flower bases nearing extinction.
Also can see those Dragon Flower bases nearing extinction.
sartre
Footballguy
Turns out it's actually 1 in 30. Atrocious.I dunno, I mean I've never really noticed any difference anywhere really. 1 in 25 is really bad.Yeah I know all about DE farming. Question was if folks around 3200 were seeing decent loot recently, or whether it is really bad, like it has been at 3400+I dunno. I farm de without regards to anything else. Most of the snipes on me are guys that show all archers for most part. That's probably what the bots build. Any reasonable deep protection of DE ensures you never get hit. 3000-3400 is the ideal range imo for DE farming. A lootcapped base gets you 4000-5000 a raid unless you just get really unlucky.
Not sure what my all time high was. I think I got close to Ch2 but fell back with no queen.
Used to be that every third or fourth base was DE lootcapped. Recently it's about 1 in 25. I'm getting bored of nexting.
I was hoping it might be worth dropping but if the landscape is the same at 3200, why bother?
Since I went throught the trouble of collecting this, I figure I'd share for anyone interested --
I recorded all of my nexts over the last 24 hour period. There were 303 of them. I was between 3450 and 3500.
GOLD ELIX DE total 102 93 1259 321,951 AVERAGE520 348 5149 1,382,900 MAX86 77 1147 302,900 MEDIAN (half have less than this)206 191 2395 510,000 top decile (90% have less than this)299 295 3075 710,000 top 1% (99% have less than this)Of 303 bases:
- only THREE had more than 299k gold lootable
- only TWO had more than 3100 DE
- not a single one was lootcapped for Elix
I encountered zero snipes or dead bases, and only one exposed DE storage (worth hitting). Most bases in this range are max or near-max, with CC stocked and heroes awake. No pushovers.
Here are what the 5 juiciest bases (again, out of 303!) looked like:
G E DE total520 348 5149 1382900402 221 2060 829000453 326 176 796600258 207 2446 709600283 219 1863 688300I really hope things are better at 3200.
culdeus
Footballguy
I think yes, meta bases will make a comeback in TH10 ranks. Though I really do think AQ walk is damn near unstoppable in the right hands. When you can get ~40% of a base dead utilizing 42/275 spots and maybe a spell you just can't hope to contain it. I can't really even think of base designs that are really immune.
Black Box
Footballguy
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freeannyong
Footballguy
Keep in mind you are watching wars where people cheat. They have a lot of different things they can do when it can be practiced 30 times.
Does Onehive (or any clean clan) do queen walks? I didn't see one in the OneHive PowerBar, but I will defer to others on it.
If the clean clans aren't doing it I'm not taking it seriously.
Does Onehive (or any clean clan) do queen walks? I didn't see one in the OneHive PowerBar, but I will defer to others on it.
If the clean clans aren't doing it I'm not taking it seriously.
culdeus
Footballguy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nLn_qluM4U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBtREZirlOw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Au2g3vTras
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXL4N45jIYA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c73Jgk8FKIE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgd40v23UMs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3tOPbN4gn8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2LxR502Cik
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcnRvh5EFy8&feature=youtu.be
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUOUj3I8XC0&feature=youtu.be
I mixed in one non queen walk video. Just to keep you on your toes.
culdeus
Footballguy
AQ walks are simple math
3 healers gives queen 105hp back a second.
Max queen starts with 1630 so let say she is seeing a cannon an archer tower and a mortar she's bleeding off ~250dps-105healed That gives her 10 seconds to knock one of those out and move on.
If she's not gonna be able to do it drop a tank, tank buys time to clean the defense, move on. If it's still to much drop a rage. 3 healers plus raged queen (if she stays in it) is 5100 hp of healing power. plus damage boost.
5s of ability gets you back 845hp plus also creates distraction archers to draw fire for more time.
This is why I said it's sort of nice to hit max bases with these. This way you know how much time you have and whether you are losing or gaining health at different points.
3 healers gives queen 105hp back a second.
Max queen starts with 1630 so let say she is seeing a cannon an archer tower and a mortar she's bleeding off ~250dps-105healed That gives her 10 seconds to knock one of those out and move on.
If she's not gonna be able to do it drop a tank, tank buys time to clean the defense, move on. If it's still to much drop a rage. 3 healers plus raged queen (if she stays in it) is 5100 hp of healing power. plus damage boost.
5s of ability gets you back 845hp plus also creates distraction archers to draw fire for more time.
This is why I said it's sort of nice to hit max bases with these. This way you know how much time you have and whether you are losing or gaining health at different points.
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culdeus
Footballguy
It's gonna vary. Obviously weaker queens can have success versus TH9 on a core dive because there are no infernos to worry about.
The weaker the queen the longer it will take. The lack of dps will make the queen more of a lone warrior. You pretty much have to set her on an island and forget her.
I don't think the thinking should be you need X level queen to do a walk, it's more you need X level queen to 3 star this TH10, below that you are looking to use it in support of a 2 star raid where you can.
Resource ring bases of course more tricky to perform a walk on, but one could certainly see it being used in creative ways eventually. Resource ring bases should be an automatic 2 star so those are out of favor in top clans because they are considered such an easy 3 star.
And you don't just have to walk queens, you can send a horde of max pekkas in to do work, heal golems, heal all sorts of stuff if the queen can only serve in a supporting role. For resource ring bases the healed pekkas could easily come into fashion.
culdeus
Footballguy
warning, long
It is a complicated answer as to why TH10s run Dragonflower (DF) bases.
Originally, a DF base consisted of 4 6x8 compartments on the flat sides (NE, NW, SE, SW) with 4 3 wide corners (N, E, S, W) slightly in relative to the flat sides compartments. This base, generally speaking, had an AD in each of the 6x8 compartments and a mortar in the corner compartments. The interiors are always custom and attempt to path troops away from the infernos. This base is rarely run by TWCs anymore, because as you said, it is all over youtube for how to beat this base. Not only is it all over youtube, but they are easy to replicate, especially as time goes on and people practice queen walks. These bases were popular until the TRL war that saw one of the first ever queen walks by the opposing clan (was it CH?). Side note, for those interested, you queen walk 2 ADs, split king to take out the 3rd AD while queen walks to the 2nd. Most CC comps will kill king then get to the queen just as she kills the 2nd AD. You then LL.
I'm going to assume you're not talking about that base design, because in the TWC syncs, you've not seen any in a long time. Instead, you're seeing the evolving definition for what a DF base is. A DF variant is now any base where the NE, NW, SE, SW are larger than the corners (N, E, S, W), the corners are indented relative to the flat sides, and usually the TH is offset. It is a very wide and loose definition.
Now, why do they use them if they're always getting 3 starred? The answer is also complicated. The newest variations have 7 spaces wide instead of 6 on the flat sides with an AD centered. This shortens the queen walk, because in order to get an AD, you need to break the wall and go into the compartment. A TH10 needs to take some of the defensive DPS out on the front end because LL or GoHo troops do not have the tanking ability to survive a max TH10's output without the heroes taking out a significant portion on the front end. Using this base design helps end the queen walk prematurely.
You are also now seeing that there is a wall through the center of the "7 deep" flat side compartments. This is to prevent the rise of the split hero strategy (I think popularized during China vs world). As these anti queen walk / anti split hero bases have their weaknesses exposed, we will see the DF bases morph again, because the war community has changed the definition of what it means to be a DF.
There are two ultimate reasons why the current DF variations are popular among the TWC community. The first is that many of the oddball trophy base variations you see in high champs / titans / low level wars can be 3 starred by 2 star comps with luck (7 golem, 5 golem GoWiPe, etc) or are susceptible to spam attacks (PenaLL, Hocus Pocus, etc). The war community prefers bases that require more nuanced strategies to 3 star as the more steps you add, the harder to replicate the result. For example, see Onehive Shadow's base during RT vs CN. The second attack was a 99% 2 star. The base was essentially beaten, but needed clean up troops dropped 2 seconds earlier. The number of steps to get to that point though was complicated enough that it took 4 more attempts until he was 3 starred even as an 86k or 88k TH10 (low for TH10s).
The last major reason is that many DF bases are in fact not cracked and the TWCs spend a lot of time testing variations to make them as difficult as possible. Some of the most brilliant attackers in the world spend hours upon hours trying to crack them in and outside of war.
TL;DR - Anyone running the original DF style bases is running a base easy to 3 star with a relatively easy to replicate strategy from youtube. You don't see those bases in high level syncs, and the bases that you do see are hard to crack for mere mortals.
Originally, a DF base consisted of 4 6x8 compartments on the flat sides (NE, NW, SE, SW) with 4 3 wide corners (N, E, S, W) slightly in relative to the flat sides compartments. This base, generally speaking, had an AD in each of the 6x8 compartments and a mortar in the corner compartments. The interiors are always custom and attempt to path troops away from the infernos. This base is rarely run by TWCs anymore, because as you said, it is all over youtube for how to beat this base. Not only is it all over youtube, but they are easy to replicate, especially as time goes on and people practice queen walks. These bases were popular until the TRL war that saw one of the first ever queen walks by the opposing clan (was it CH?). Side note, for those interested, you queen walk 2 ADs, split king to take out the 3rd AD while queen walks to the 2nd. Most CC comps will kill king then get to the queen just as she kills the 2nd AD. You then LL.
I'm going to assume you're not talking about that base design, because in the TWC syncs, you've not seen any in a long time. Instead, you're seeing the evolving definition for what a DF base is. A DF variant is now any base where the NE, NW, SE, SW are larger than the corners (N, E, S, W), the corners are indented relative to the flat sides, and usually the TH is offset. It is a very wide and loose definition.
Now, why do they use them if they're always getting 3 starred? The answer is also complicated. The newest variations have 7 spaces wide instead of 6 on the flat sides with an AD centered. This shortens the queen walk, because in order to get an AD, you need to break the wall and go into the compartment. A TH10 needs to take some of the defensive DPS out on the front end because LL or GoHo troops do not have the tanking ability to survive a max TH10's output without the heroes taking out a significant portion on the front end. Using this base design helps end the queen walk prematurely.
You are also now seeing that there is a wall through the center of the "7 deep" flat side compartments. This is to prevent the rise of the split hero strategy (I think popularized during China vs world). As these anti queen walk / anti split hero bases have their weaknesses exposed, we will see the DF bases morph again, because the war community has changed the definition of what it means to be a DF.
There are two ultimate reasons why the current DF variations are popular among the TWC community. The first is that many of the oddball trophy base variations you see in high champs / titans / low level wars can be 3 starred by 2 star comps with luck (7 golem, 5 golem GoWiPe, etc) or are susceptible to spam attacks (PenaLL, Hocus Pocus, etc). The war community prefers bases that require more nuanced strategies to 3 star as the more steps you add, the harder to replicate the result. For example, see Onehive Shadow's base during RT vs CN. The second attack was a 99% 2 star. The base was essentially beaten, but needed clean up troops dropped 2 seconds earlier. The number of steps to get to that point though was complicated enough that it took 4 more attempts until he was 3 starred even as an 86k or 88k TH10 (low for TH10s).
The last major reason is that many DF bases are in fact not cracked and the TWCs spend a lot of time testing variations to make them as difficult as possible. Some of the most brilliant attackers in the world spend hours upon hours trying to crack them in and outside of war.
TL;DR - Anyone running the original DF style bases is running a base easy to 3 star with a relatively easy to replicate strategy from youtube. You don't see those bases in high level syncs, and the bases that you do see are hard to crack for mere mortals.
Sputnikv8
Footballguy
3 starring developed TH10s is out of the question, both for us and all the clans we face (a couple of outlier attacks notwithstanding). Is this a solid two star strategy our top guys should be learning?
culdeus
Footballguy
Very few attacks at same TH level should not be using healers. The only exception right now are probably the resource ring bases.
2 star attacks probably need 5 healers because you will be asking the queen to take more fire and the healers will also be taking some amount of fire.
You don't get many clicks on youtube showing 2 star strats.
Sputnikv8
Footballguy
I could be ignorant (shut up). But, it just seems to me we run into clans that throw basic GoWiPe at us for 2's up and down the ranks. Then, they go back and do some 3's (in ranges we already know how to 3). And then they win.
We need to master the basic GoWiPe for 2 up and down the board before we start worrying about the "attack of the week". IMHO.
Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
Or go back to drags.
I know, I know. Drags suck. Everyone is too cool to use them. Blah, blah, blah.
Could likely be used on lots of bases for an easy 2*. Not that anyone will do it of course but yeah...
I know, I know. Drags suck. Everyone is too cool to use them. Blah, blah, blah.
Could likely be used on lots of bases for an easy 2*. Not that anyone will do it of course but yeah...
AcerFC
Footballguy
I would. Add me as a guy who maybe 2 star gowipes 25% of the time
I'm not too cool to do dragons again. I just don't think that's an option against anything other than a brand new TH10, even with max drags, something most of us aren't researching until we've finished everything else.
Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
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Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
Thought we'd have more than that.
Just pointing out that it is another tool that can be used.
culdeus
Footballguy
freeannyong
Footballguy
And we are talking queen walk which realistically you need AQ > 30 Which only like 6 people have. So just another possibility. Don't think it's bad idea.
Interesting....
I'm starting level 5 dragons today in my lab. I'll give this a try in a couple weeks.
Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
A quick look at the last war, I'd bet that 13 of the 23 10s would be easy 2* with drags based on AD strength, AD location and TH shaded. That isn't taking the use of heroes into consideration.
Eta: 6 of 17 in the war before that.
Eta: 6 of 17 in the war before that.
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freeannyong
Footballguy
BTW if we are doing this farm war junk I'm potting twice and others can too
Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
I would think max but it can't hurt to try with L4. There are 3 this war if ya want to practice. 17, 20, 21.17 from 6-9.
20 from any side.
21 from around the corner @9.
Not sure what the best spell comp would be. 3 rage and 2 freeze or the other way around.
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Warsteinner
Footballguy
AcerFC
Footballguy
I have no idea what this means. My lab frees up tomorrow morning. If I double pot, I can start level 4 drags tomorrow when the war wraps up. Then do level 5 right after. I could be fbgs kevvy d.
MindCrime
Footballguy
The 4-6-8-8-6-4 is the radius of the eq spell. So a series of walls is z. x is the walls broken if eq dropped in center.zzzzzzzzzz
zzzxxxxzzz
zzxxxxxxzz
zxxxxxxxxz
zxxxxxxxxz
zzxxxxxxzz
zzzxxxxzzz
zzzzzzzzzz
Eta- ASCII art was never my thing
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sartre
Footballguy
I presume you mean 4-6-8-8-8-8-6-4 ?
I would guess that 1-3-5-7-9-7-5-3-1 should be possible if you place all four EQ perfectly centered on one segment. The wiki says the radius is 4.5
culdeus
Footballguy
I think the 4.5 is often not interpreted correctly. They say 4.5 because they give you 8 tiles across by 4 tiles wide, instead of being a circle, ergo 4.5 Since the grid isn't overlapping there wasn't a practical way to draw a perfect circle.
culdeus
Footballguy
Can't really draw a grid here, so this is probably gonna get screwed up
xxYYYYxx
So for the top of the circle they consider the Y's to be the freebies here. You should get just one per side, but they give you two per side, now 4.5 is the effective radius, if that makes sense.
xxYYYYxx
So for the top of the circle they consider the Y's to be the freebies here. You should get just one per side, but they give you two per side, now 4.5 is the effective radius, if that makes sense.
John Bender
Footballguy
what the mother ####?
Sputnikv8
Footballguy
culdeus
Footballguy
Maybe a little more clear, the board is just a bunch of squares all lined up. If the squares were lined up like on half squares trying to draw a circle wouldn't be an issue.
So to compensate for this they overweight the + portion by one extra tile, but since they don't want people having to guess where it might land they give it on all 4 corners. That's the 4 ".5" The .5 is not extended straight out but at a slight angle.
So EQ should be thought of as a 8x4 tile Plus sign with some filler in between. We were seeing people drop eq and squares I thought should have died weren't dying. Aim has to be perfect.
So to compensate for this they overweight the + portion by one extra tile, but since they don't want people having to guess where it might land they give it on all 4 corners. That's the 4 ".5" The .5 is not extended straight out but at a slight angle.
So EQ should be thought of as a 8x4 tile Plus sign with some filler in between. We were seeing people drop eq and squares I thought should have died weren't dying. Aim has to be perfect.
PatsWillWin
Footballguy
I don't even understand Culds dumbed down version of whatever the hell he posted before.
PatsWillWin
Footballguy
I got like 1400 on my SATs. This is a game. With goblins. What are we talking about?
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