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coles or cotchery (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter cowpie
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sheerterror
Footballguy
"Of course the cheers that went up from the lap were dwarfed by those produced later when Favre unloaded an absolute rocket down the left sideline on a go route that hit Jerricho Cotchery in stride. The ball traveled 65 yards in the air and resulted in a 75-yard touchdown. David Barrett’s coverage wasn’t awful (I know what’s coming…), the throw was just perfect. Earlier in the practice Favre hit Cotchery on another go route, this one covering 35 yards down the right sideline with Cotchery beating Ahmad Carroll. Cotchery and Favre look like they’ve worked together for a lot longer than two practices. Obviously, it’s a work in progress with the other guys."
This from Erik Boland's blog.
This from Erik Boland's blog.
chook
Footballguy
Iwannabeacowboybaby!
Footballguy
I don't think this is a Coles or Cotchery situation. I think they're both going to do reasonably well. I don't see Cotchery scoring as many Td's as Coles, yet Cotchery should benefit from a lot of receptions.
If you're in a league that is PPR, then drafting Cotchery makes sense.
If you're in a TD only league or a league that doesn't include receptions as points, then I'd probably draft Coles.
Both Wr's make very good Wr3 options IMO.
If you're in a league that is PPR, then drafting Cotchery makes sense.
If you're in a TD only league or a league that doesn't include receptions as points, then I'd probably draft Coles.
Both Wr's make very good Wr3 options IMO.
hoochiemama
Footballguy
Cotchery had more deep targets last year. Favre likes to chuck the ball. I would expect Cotchery to benefit most.
zamboni
Footballguy
I would expect a bump up for both of them, although it's hard to guess who will benefit the most.
As far as better upside goes, however, Favre turned a youngish Driver and Jennings into stars - it's not out of the realm of possibility that he does so with Cotchery. JC is a very good, polished receiver that hasn't had a big, consistent arm to catch passes from since Philip Rivers at NC State.
As far as better upside goes, however, Favre turned a youngish Driver and Jennings into stars - it's not out of the realm of possibility that he does so with Cotchery. JC is a very good, polished receiver that hasn't had a big, consistent arm to catch passes from since Philip Rivers at NC State.
KellysHeroes
Footballguy
both get bumped... but if Coles can stay health all 16, hes about to have a great PPR season... 2006, Coles had 89 recs w/ Chad as QB, so I'm expecting atleast that many. Cotch is going to be more of the deep threat; the field spreader... so he'll have about 1300 yds.
Coles: 90+ Recs for 1100
Cotch: 80 Recs for 1300
You figure Farve should be good for 3500
Coles: 90+ Recs for 1100
Cotch: 80 Recs for 1300
You figure Farve should be good for 3500
sholditch
Footballguy
I read that Coles was a big supporter of Chad and was kinda pissed when he got dumped for Favre. I'm betting that Cotchery becomes his favorite target, just cause I think that Coles has lost a step and Cotchery is the better deep threat. After years of 10 yard passes, the Jets are going to look to use Favre's deep ball a lot more.
Horsec
Footballguy
Hmm... I disagree... Cotch does not have Jennings speed... I think its easy to decide Coles is Driver and Jennings is Cotch, but its not that exact.I think they'll both do well... and I lean towards Cotch as I feel his best year is ahead of him and Coles' is behind him... plus Cotch has been sticking to Favre like glue so far.TLEF316 said:
zamboni
Footballguy
I would tend to agree here.
FavreCo
Footballguy
While coles pouts about his long lost noodle armed friend, Cotchery is making his case for #1 WR.
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football...play_dur-1.html
There were two lightning bolts Sunday at Hofstra. And that was before the late-afternoon storm hit.
After a shaky Jets debut Saturday, Brett Favre put on a show in Sunday's morning session, delivering two vintage Favre passes that left everybody buzzing.
Throwing off his back foot, Favre flicked his wrist and unleashed a 40-yard strike to Jerricho Cotchery. The most impressive part of that play, Cotchery said, was how Favre pump-faked the safety out of position, hitting him down the right sideline even though he was only supposed to be a decoy on the play.
Later, Favre showed his home-run ball, going deep ... deep ... deep to Cotchery - a 75-yard completion that traveled 65 yards in the air. David Barrett's coverage wasn't bad, but Favre found a small window. The last Jets quarterback with that much arm strength was Vinny Testaverde, circa 2001.
"A great ball," Cotchery said. "He put it out there far enough and he put enough air under it to where I could just run and go get it."
Said Eric Mangini: "The ball comes out hard, fast, straight and long - and that's always good."
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football...play_dur-1.html
There were two lightning bolts Sunday at Hofstra. And that was before the late-afternoon storm hit.
After a shaky Jets debut Saturday, Brett Favre put on a show in Sunday's morning session, delivering two vintage Favre passes that left everybody buzzing.
Throwing off his back foot, Favre flicked his wrist and unleashed a 40-yard strike to Jerricho Cotchery. The most impressive part of that play, Cotchery said, was how Favre pump-faked the safety out of position, hitting him down the right sideline even though he was only supposed to be a decoy on the play.
Later, Favre showed his home-run ball, going deep ... deep ... deep to Cotchery - a 75-yard completion that traveled 65 yards in the air. David Barrett's coverage wasn't bad, but Favre found a small window. The last Jets quarterback with that much arm strength was Vinny Testaverde, circa 2001.
"A great ball," Cotchery said. "He put it out there far enough and he put enough air under it to where I could just run and go get it."
Said Eric Mangini: "The ball comes out hard, fast, straight and long - and that's always good."
TLEF316
Footballguy
i think there will be a whole lot of this in 2008. I'd draft cotchery as a WR2 with a chance to break the top 15-20.
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Deuce'sWild
Footballguy
Wasn't Jennings the flanker in the GB off? I think that's Coles position in NY. I could be wrong, just going off memory, which is not what it used to be.
zamboni
Footballguy
That's really stretching it IMO, although I do think that if he stays healthy, Cotch is going to have a career-best season.
I don't think you have to chose, I've consistently drafted both guys as WR#3 and #4 in the 5th-6th Rounds, and even got Coles in the 7th one draft.
Both have 80 catch potential and 7 TDs in them. They are a very solid combo to get after getting a stud WR and a few RBs before.
Both have 80 catch potential and 7 TDs in them. They are a very solid combo to get after getting a stud WR and a few RBs before.
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Seems like Coles has fallen far behind Cotchery thus far in the "bonding" period with Favre...Coles is not on the field, and Cotchery is solidifying his rapport by the day...Prior to Favre being traded, Cotch and Coles were roughly ranked next to each other anywhere between WR 22 and 28 depending on whether it was PPR. After the signing, Cotch moved a little bit ahead, but now I feel as though Coles is slipping back from what was expected prior to Favre arriving.
Is Coles dinged up? Any news on him recently?
Is Coles dinged up? Any news on him recently?
Mystery Achiever
Footballguy
Yes, he is dinged, but is practicing. And he's not "mad" at Favre. While Cotchery does look like the better bet, imo people are going a little crazy over the "who's brett's favorite thing. if coles isn't in the game, uh, yeah, Cotchery will get more targets. And, yes, I understand the value of being oin the field when Favre is getting comfortable with receivers. I just think people are seeing a bigger gap than will be there.
PosterNutBag
Footballguy
This sounds about right to me too.
Tau837
Footballguy
Why? Just because of last season's low total? IMO that was a fluke. I predict Cotchery will have more receptions, yards, and TDs than Coles this year.
Chaka
Footballguy
TDs are tough to predict. I think Cotchery/Coles look a lot like Jennings/Driver.
TLEF316
Footballguy
For the last couple of years, the lob to coles has been the jets go-to play inside the 10 yard line (mostly because they had a lousy o-line and no good goal line backs) I'd expect us to run up the gut a bit more due to the o-line improvements, but i fully expect Coles to continue to be the main threat to catch short TD's. He has very good body control and is a better leaper than cotchery from what I've seen.
Tau837
Footballguy
It is a misconception that Coles gets targeted more in the red zone.2007 red zone targets: Coles 14, Cotchery 122006 red zone targets: Coles 15, Cotchery 21ETA: in the past 2 seasons, Coles has 14/92/6 on 29 targets in the red zone; Cotchery has 14/106/3 on 33 targetsOf course, there is no guarantee that Coles won't get targeted more than Cotchery going forward, but I don't see any rationale for that. As already noted in the thread, Cotchery is in his prime, while Coles is beyond his, and Cotchery seems to be building at least slightly better chemistry with Favre. None of that guarantees anything for Cotchery, but what case is there that Coles will get more red zone looks?
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Do you want to hear a funny story?
Well to bad I am going to tell you.
This last weekend I draft cotchery in the 7th round. Everyone asked why I didn't draft Coles. I told them that Favre didn't like him. Well when the 11 round rolled by I realized coles was still on the board. So even though I already had Cotchery I also grabbed Coles.
That is the way to manipulate your draft.
Well to bad I am going to tell you.
This last weekend I draft cotchery in the 7th round. Everyone asked why I didn't draft Coles. I told them that Favre didn't like him. Well when the 11 round rolled by I realized coles was still on the board. So even though I already had Cotchery I also grabbed Coles.
That is the way to manipulate your draft.
Chaka
Footballguy
I also think Favre will look to his TEs more in the red zone then Pennington did.
PosterNutBag
Footballguy
It sounds like you need to kick some of the guppies out of that league and replace then with sharks. It looks like it is just a 10-team league, but there is no way Coles should go as late as b/w picks 100 and 110. That's at least 4-5 rounds later than the vast majority of leagues would pick him.Do you want to hear a funny story?Well to bad I am going to tell you.This last weekend I draft cotchery in the 7th round. Everyone asked why I didn't draft Coles. I told them that Favre didn't like him. Well when the 11 round rolled by I realized coles was still on the board. So even though I already had Cotchery I also grabbed Coles.
PosterNutBag
Footballguy
I agree (based on Favre's history). TDs are probably going to be tough to predict. Even if Coles hasn't been targeted more, he clearly has caught more than Cotchery, which is probably why people think Coles' TD production will be higher. Coles is 1 inch shorter and 15 lbs. lighter than Cotchery according to FBG's info, but Coles definitely has the better vertical leap based on what I have seen. In the end, there is probably only 3 TDs at most difference b/w the two of them IMO (not withstanding any injuries to either of them).
BigGreenMachine
Footballguy
Having been to the Jets practices at Hofstra (Jets Homer) and to the preseason games (damn them for making me buy them as part of season tix) I can truly say that while he looks at both he def. prefers Cotchery.
Draft Cotchery with confidence...
Draft Cotchery with confidence...
Cenobite
Footballguy
In 12 team leagues Cotch does not get passed the 6th round and Coles doesn't get passed the 7th. Those are the latest they have gone that I have seen. The only way I can fathom they lasted so far in your league is that you have a start 2 WR league. If so, you have absolute steals in those rounds.Do you want to hear a funny story?Well to bad I am going to tell you.This last weekend I draft cotchery in the 7th round. Everyone asked why I didn't draft Coles. I told them that Favre didn't like him. Well when the 11 round rolled by I realized coles was still on the board. So even though I already had Cotchery I also grabbed Coles.That is the way to manipulate your draft.
trader jake
Footballguy
Both wideouts are in the same ADP ballpark but Cotchery has been moving up because he's younger, is talking to the media, and is a better bet to stay healthy. If Lav drops at all (or he is low at auction) I wouldn't hesitate to snag him but Cotchery is the safer play and will probably end the season with better stats.
Trey
Footballguy
I think you mean WR2.
Mr. Mojo
Footballguy
It's no misconception.Coles missed many more games than Cotchery and still had more red zone targets. I had Cotchery last year and saw first hand how they went to Coles in the end zone. In fact in one series, they were on the one and threw a fade to Coles that was incomplete. The very next play, they threw to Coles again, this time for the TD.
Of course I was livid
and remember it very clearly.
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blackjack23
Footballguy
I think they will end up with very similar #s I like Cotchery's upside a bit better though.
I like Cotchery's upside a bit better though.
MCguidance
Footballguy
I think at this point, either is going to produce WR3 numbers, both have a decent shot at producing WR2 numbers, but only one MIGHT produce borderline WR1 numbers. That player is Cotchery. He is younger, faster, and has developed a better rapport with Favre. This is not to discount Coles in any way, as he will surely get a bump this year from improved health, Favre, and better offensive play. However, all Cotch is missing is TDs. He will undoubtedly improve that category this year.
As for the Shark play, I think it is Coles. Yes, it is almost contrary to what I wrote above, but think about what this board, staff, and its members preach, value, value, value. Cotchery will likely go 1-2 rounds before Coles. And although there is a greater chance that Cotch will reach better numbers this year, this chance does not outweigh the discrepancy in draft position. I think by grabbing another receiver in Cotch's spot and then waiting on Coles is probably the play here.
Who knows, I could be totally wrong, but in my estimating drafting another position of need where you would draft Cotch and then grabbing Coles a bit later is the shark move.
As for the Shark play, I think it is Coles. Yes, it is almost contrary to what I wrote above, but think about what this board, staff, and its members preach, value, value, value. Cotchery will likely go 1-2 rounds before Coles. And although there is a greater chance that Cotch will reach better numbers this year, this chance does not outweigh the discrepancy in draft position. I think by grabbing another receiver in Cotch's spot and then waiting on Coles is probably the play here.
Who knows, I could be totally wrong, but in my estimating drafting another position of need where you would draft Cotch and then grabbing Coles a bit later is the shark move.
I think it is clear that in the past that Coles was targeted more in the red zone. But I am not sure how that impacts this year? The whole point with this year is that they have a new QB which is going to change both of their numbers and probably drastically from the past. Who is to say who Favre will target in the red zone? Just because noodle arm did in the past does not mean that Favre will this year. He might, but I do not see that past experiences of Pennington impacting Favres natural inclinations (of which I have no clue what they will be at this point for this team).It's no misconception.Coles missed many more games than Cotchery and still had more red zone targets. I had Cotchery last year and saw first hand how they went to Coles in the end zone. In fact in one series, they were on the one and threw a fade to Coles that was incomplete. The very next play, they threw to Coles again, this time for the TD.Of course I was lividand remember it very clearly.
Chaka
Footballguy
It is not clear at all.Coles played 16 games in '06 and Cotchery was targeted more in the RZ. Coles missed 4 games but Cotchery also missed a game last season.Pennington also had a man-crush on Coles, let's see who Favre gravitates towards.Even split for Coles at best. With Favre the TEs will vulture at the goal line too.I think it is clear that in the past that Coles was targeted more in the red zone. But I am not sure how that impacts this year? The whole point with this year is that they have a new QB which is going to change both of their numbers and probably drastically from the past. Who is to say who Favre will target in the red zone? Just because noodle arm did in the past does not mean that Favre will this year. He might, but I do not see that past experiences of Pennington impacting Favres natural inclinations (of which I have no clue what they will be at this point for this team).It's no misconception.Coles missed many more games than Cotchery and still had more red zone targets. I had Cotchery last year and saw first hand how they went to Coles in the end zone. In fact in one series, they were on the one and threw a fade to Coles that was incomplete. The very next play, they threw to Coles again, this time for the TD.Of course I was livid
My point exactly. What happened in the past with CP has no bearing on who will get targeted this year.It is not clear at all.Coles played 16 games in '06 and Cotchery was targeted more in the RZ. Coles missed 4 games but Cotchery also missed a game last season.Pennington also had a man-crush on Coles, let's see who Favre gravitates towards.Even split for Coles at best. With Favre the TEs will vulture at the goal line too.I think it is clear that in the past that Coles was targeted more in the red zone. But I am not sure how that impacts this year? The whole point with this year is that they have a new QB which is going to change both of their numbers and probably drastically from the past. Who is to say who Favre will target in the red zone? Just because noodle arm did in the past does not mean that Favre will this year. He might, but I do not see that past experiences of Pennington impacting Favres natural inclinations (of which I have no clue what they will be at this point for this team).It's no misconception.Coles missed many more games than Cotchery and still had more red zone targets. I had Cotchery last year and saw first hand how they went to Coles in the end zone. In fact in one series, they were on the one and threw a fade to Coles that was incomplete. The very next play, they threw to Coles again, this time for the TD.Of course I was lividand remember it very clearly.
Tau837
Footballguy
Well, first of all, you bolded 2007 but ignored 2006, when they both played 16 games and Cotchery had more red zone targets. I decided to compare the red zone targets in the games in which both played in 2007. They both played in weeks 1-8, 11, and 14 last season. In those games, Cotchery had 9 red zone targets and Coles had 11. (I did this by scanning FBG play by play info for those games, so I can't swear these are accurate.)It's no misconception.Coles missed many more games than Cotchery and still had more red zone targets. I had Cotchery last year and saw first hand how they went to Coles in the end zone. In fact in one series, they were on the one and threw a fade to Coles that was incomplete. The very next play, they threw to Coles again, this time for the TD.
Of course I was lividand remember it very clearly.
That means over the past two years, in games played by both of them, Cotchery had 30 red zone targets and Coles had 26. I think that reinforces my original point.
All that said, I agree that with a new QB, and likely different playcalling that will fit Favre's skillset, which is quite different from Pennington's, this past data is not necssarily a good indicator of how targets will be divided this year. Still, it would seem that all signs point to Cotchery outperforming Coles this year, and that is what I expect.
thehornet
Footballguy
hmm, why are you looking at combine numbers from many years ago? These dude arent even close to being rookies anymore.
bcr8f
Footballguy
He and Favre have been bonding. In GB Driver and Jennings would just get a look and know what Favre was thinking based on coverage. Cotchery is getting there.I see Keller getting more red zone targets than either.I think they will end up with very similar #sI like Cotchery's upside a bit better though.
