Colin Kaepernick Thread and related anthem kneeling issues/news (42 Viewers)

[Hawkeye21]

isn't that what Trump did ?

Well, Trump doesn't really go by the same set of rules of us anymore not that he's the President.  What Trump did was borderline illegal.

 

[adonis]

Here's some extra material for @Stealthycat:

http://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/352419-michael-hayden-in-trump-versus-nfl-standing-up-for-free-speech - 4 star general finds this whole thing ridiculous and finds himself having to side with Colin.  

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/25/opinion/colin-kaepernick-football-protests.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=0 - teammate talks about respect

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdhS_ORuuow - former green beret Nate Boyer & Colin Kaepernick Real Time Video, talking about how taking a knee is a sign of respect.

 

[urbanhack]

Says someone with over 30,000 posts.  

I'm not the one complaining.  

 

[adonis]

I don't like the way Trump does much of anything, but "wrong" is relative here.  There are a fair number of people on both sides of this political argument.

I would prefer Trump didn't get involved, but I also think the NFL shouldn't have allowed it to get to this point.  Trump took advantage of an opportunity and I have a hard time seeing how it isn't going to work out well for him.

This whole thing is a "thing" because of Trump.

Trump created this "opportunity", which is essentially Trump, once again, attempting to divide Americans and benefit through the division.

If it weren't so pathetic, it'd be ####### hilarious how hypocritical people were who called Obama divisive when he wasn't, and who give Trump a pass now, when he's the most divisive president our country has ever seen.  Trump is virtually the opposite of almost everything he's ever said or done.  He's the only person in politics who can effectively run against himself and be in opposition to almost everything the other version of himself has said.

 

[jonessed]

You think that blasting away at the NFL on twitter while ACA repeal fails again, Puerto Rico is a disaster, and his guy lost the election in Alabama is going to work out well for him? I don't disagree that this kind of nonsense plays well with the folks that he already has in his pocket, but overall you actually think that this is a good look for him?

Turning this into a national anthem issue was a shrewd political move.  The polls are clearly in his favor with regard to standing for the national anthem.

The NFL owners are going to cave on this.  We won't see anything like last week again.

 

[[icon]]

This guy still unemployed? 

 

[mr. furley]

why is kneeling as a sign of respect revered in church but vilified in this specific instance?

 when Tim Tebow did it we had a national craze about what an amazing person and player he was. HOW RESPECTFUL! WHEN HE SCORES HE TAKES A KNEE IN REVERENCE!!  NOT LIKE THESE NFL THUGS WHO SHOWBOAT AND MAKE A SCENE! HE CELEBRATES RESPECTFULLY, QUIETLY AND DOESN'T MAKE IT ABOUT HIM!

but someone kneels in quiet reflection before the almighty flag and it's a bridge too far, guys are making it all about themselves, they are showing the ultimate sign of disrespect

 

[packersfan]

Turning this into a national anthem issue was a shrewd political move.  The polls are clearly in his favor with regard to standing for the national anthem.

The NFL owners are going to cave on this.  We won't see anything like last week again.

He has taken the opposite position of the majority of professional athletes in our country. They're all registered voters.

I wouldn't call anything he did here shrewd. 

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

ignorant Packers fans have turned their outrage from "players don't respect the flag" to "players are trying to force me to lock arms with someone else at a game"

this is unbelievable 

As an anti-social humanist, I'm kind of sympathetic to this complaint. It's like the one mass a year I go to when I have to shake hands with the parishioners around me. Super awkward. 

 

[Godsbrother]

I don't like the way Trump does much of anything, but "wrong" is relative here.  There are a fair number of people on both sides of this political argument.

I would prefer Trump didn't get involved, but I also think the NFL shouldn't have allowed it to get to this point.  Trump took advantage of an opportunity and I have a hard time seeing how it isn't going to work out well for him.

There were only a handful of players protesting before Trump's remarks and it was pretty much a non-story.  Trump's rant where he called those players SOB's and said they should be fired caused the uproar.  It was nothing but a cheap political stunt and of course his gullible base fell for it yet again

 

[culdeus]

This guy still unemployed? 

I just added him on my fantasy team to make heads explode.

 

[culdeus]

why is kneeling as a sign of respect revered in church but vilified in this specific instance?

 when Tim Tebow did it we had a national craze about what an amazing person and player he was. HOW RESPECTFUL! WHEN HE SCORES HE TAKES A KNEE IN REVERENCE!!  NOT LIKE THESE NFL THUGS WHO SHOWBOAT AND MAKE A SCENE! HE CELEBRATES RESPECTFULLY, QUIETLY AND DOESN'T MAKE IT ABOUT HIM!

but someone kneels in quiet reflection before the almighty flag and it's a bridge too far, guys are making it all about themselves, they are showing the ultimate sign of disrespect

I don't like my takes this hot so early in the morning.

 

[mr. furley]

Wisconsin voted for Trump. I'll let you decide if there's a connection in terms of the outrage. 

oh, i have no doubt about the political nature of the state

but it's pretty telling that someone says "alright, knock it off.. apologize. give you brother/sister a hug and be civil at least" but people can't even do that.

politics aside. just be civil.

shame that people can't even do that.

 

[packersfan]

oh, i have no doubt about the political nature of the state

but it's pretty telling that someone says "alright, knock it off.. apologize. give you brother/sister a hug and be civil at least" but people can't even do that.

politics aside. just be civil.

shame that people can't even do that.

My point still stands. When Wisconsin voted for Trump they voted for ##### grabbing, mocking the disabled, racism and xenophobia.

Being civil left the station the second they cast their vote.   

 

[[icon]]

I just added him on my fantasy team to make heads explode.

 this is brilliant shtick. 

I commish a league and one good buddy is REALLY heated about all this. Tempted to add Kaep to his team without telling him and see what happens... 

 

[jonessed]

There were only a handful of players protesting before Trump's remarks and it was pretty much a non-story.  Trump's rant where he called those players SOB's and said they should be fired caused the uproar.  It was nothing but a cheap political stunt and of course his gullible base fell for it yet again

It was never a non-story.

He did conflate the message and magnify it though.  That was clearly his goal.

 

[Coeur de Lion]

Turning this into a national anthem issue was a shrewd political move.  The polls are clearly in his favor with regard to standing for the national anthem.

The NFL owners are going to cave on this.  We won't see anything like last week again.

I think that the vast majority of those who actually believe that this is somehow about the flag / anthem were likely in his corner to begin with.

And also, there is no way that the owners will do anything to try to stop this -- that would just pour gasoline on the fire.

 

[mr. furley]

As an anti-social humanist, I'm kind of sympathetic to this complaint. It's like the one mass a year I go to when I have to shake hands with the parishioners around me. Super awkward. 

i've only been to church for funerals or weddings. shaking someones hand and saying hello isn't a religious act. it's a show of human decency.

choose to do so or not. doesn't really matter to me.  i might look at you cross eyed if you look at my hand and look away but maybe not if i take the time to learn a little bit about you.

this reminds me of a dinner i went to with my in-laws. my brother in law brought his new girlfriend for the first time. she was quiet, a bit reserved but polite. my mother in law is... the opposite. loud, ornery, not PC at all. just all bluster. 

she tends to move from one topic to the next without any logical segue. mostly while talking very loudly.. over people.

so as she's carrying on, making no sense, switching stream of consciousness from one topic to another.. abruptly interrupting and addressing people without context.. my BIL's gf is politely but intermittently chatting with my wife and i.. nodding her head a lot and not answering everything. we just chalked it up to nerves.

my MIL turns to me, and loudly whispers to me,  "i don't know about (her son's) new girlfriend... she's being disrespectful. i think she might be ######ed. she seems pretty dumb."

me:  

not wanting to cause a scene and embarrass her, since i just wanted to get the hell out of there as quickly as possible, i ignored her.

since i didn't answer, she turned to my wife and repeated herself. 

my wife.... lost it. 

turns out my BIL's gf (now wife) is profoundly deaf.  so her quiet, polite, reserve and lack of back & forth with my mother in law was the result of her inability to sort out what my MIL was saying with the ambient noise, the distance between them and the utter impossibility of being able to keep track of her ever changing verbal diarrhea. 

in the instant (course of the evening) that my mother in law did not get the response she wanted from her son's gf, she made the snap decision that this poor woman was disrespectful, stupid..... and "######ed".

this attitude towards her persists since my MIL won't change her attitude/mind about anything once she has made a decision. she now knows that this woman is mostly deaf but STILL takes her reticence to engage as disrespectful. and despite her daughter in law holding a high paid position in the social services industry... thinks she's dumb.

 

[Hawkeye21]

What's it going to be like when the players go back to standing every game?  I have a feeling that the ones upset are going to find new arguments to be mad at them.  I saw it with Kaepernick when he said he would start standing again.  If players decide to go back to standing there are going to be fans yelling that it's too late and that they already made their bed.  Some will say if they are going to make that stand then have the balls to do it every game.  If they continue kneeling those same people are very likely to keep being upset and yell at them for continuing to kneel.  Some people just love to be mad at others.

 

[packersfan]

I think that the vast majority of those who actually believe that this is somehow about the flag / anthem were likely in his corner to begin with.

And also, there is no way that the owners will do anything to try to stop this -- that would just pour gasoline on the fire.

Exactly. What he did was succeed in turning more people against him and empowering many prominent athletes to become more vocal in their opposition to him. 

I also agree the owners won't change their position. They came out en masse in support of the players' right to do this. I understand who these people are and who Goodell is and the hypocrisy that often runs rampant in the NFL, but if they flip there's going to be massive problems.  

 

[packersfan]

The NFL comes out strong in further support of its players:

Lindsay Jones‏Verified account @bylindsayhjones  2m2 minutes ago

NFL spokesman Joe Lockhart giving an impassioned defense of NFL players this morning. "NFL players are men of character," said.

 

[Coeur de Lion]

Exactly. What he did was succeed in turning more people against him and empowering many prominent athletes to become more vocal in their opposition to him. 

I also agree the owners won't change their position. They came out en masse in support of the players' right to do this. I understand who these people are and who Goodell is and the hypocrisy that often runs rampant in the NFL, but if they flip there's going to be massive problems.  

Absolutely. The owners and the league are just going to ride this out and wait for the furor to die down. They really don't have any other choice unless they want to go to war with the majority of their players, which would be way worse than what is currently going on.

 

[the moops]

The NFL owners are going to cave on this.  We won't see anything like last week again.

At this point, they will look like hypocritical fools if they reverse course. No chance the owners do anything about this

 

[Hawkeye21]

Exactly. What he did was succeed in turning more people against him and empowering many prominent athletes to become more vocal in their opposition to him. 

I also agree the owners won't change their position. They came out en masse in support of the players' right to do this. I understand who these people are and who Goodell is and the hypocrisy that often runs rampant in the NFL, but if they flip there's going to be massive problems.  

Whatever side of this whole ordeal, whatever those are, comes out on top you can bet your life savings that Trump is going to take credit for it.  If the NFL starts failing drastically and the players are silenced then he will take credit.  If the players continue to stand up and it spreads to all sports and major changes are made you know he's going to take credit for that as well.  Trump will never let any controversy or disaster go by without somehow taking advantage of it.

 

[packersfan]

Whatever side of this whole ordeal, whatever those are, comes out on top you can bet your life savings that Trump is going to take credit for it.  If the NFL starts failing drastically and the players are silenced then he will take credit.  If the players continue to stand up and it spreads to all sports and major changes are made you know he's going to take credit for that as well.  Trump will never let any controversy or disaster go by without somehow taking advantage of it.

Of course. He's a repugnant vile piece of excrement.

 

[Hawkeye21]

Absolutely. The owners and the league are just going to ride this out and wait for the furor to die down. They really don't have any other choice unless they want to go to war with the majority of their players, which would be way worse than what is currently going on.

I think some forget that most coaches were once players as well.  Not only that but there are many minorities on their staffs.  It's not just the players.

 

[Coeur de Lion]

I think some forget that most coaches were once players as well.  Not only that but there are many minorities on their staffs.  It's not just the players.

Absolutely. And IMO even players that weren't inclined to take a knee and join the protest wouldn't take particularly kindly to the owners stepping in and telling their team-mates what to do or not to do. Plus the union likely wouldn't stand by and let anything counter to the CBA happen.

 

[Old Smiley]

This was posted earlier, but in case you missed it:

http://fox8.com/2017/09/26/dallas-sportscaster-delivers-powerful-monologue-says-anthem-protests-not-about-disrespecting-flag/

It's the Dale Hansen commentary piece.

Fave line: "I served in the military during the Vietnam war. My foot hurt too, but I served anyway."

 

[jonessed]

At this point, they will look like hypocritical fools if they reverse course. No chance the owners do anything about this

There will still be protests for a while.  We just won't see the numbers or the owners involved like that again.

 

[msommer]

"Moving the goalposts, coming through, moving the goalposts"

 

[sho nuff]

The thing is, number 3 is basically your opinion.  I know a lot of others share that opinion but it's still just opinion.

That and protesting is not unpatriotic...peaceful protest is a very patriotic thing to do.

 

[sho nuff]

ignorant Packers fans have turned their outrage from "players don't respect the flag" to "players are trying to force me to lock arms with someone else at a game"

this is unbelievable 

children are going to throw tantrums when adults teach lessons but.. holy ####.. this is just embarrassing. in a way it's great that these people are being exposed. now we know who can handle actual discourse with the adults and who is going to roll around on the floor, screaming, flapping their arms until someone gives them a woobie.

Agreed...the outrage over asking for unity is just crazy to me.  "I won't link arms...my hand will be on my heart".  Which is funny when you watch people at games and the percentage that put their hand over their heart was never all that high.

My favorite comments in all those stories are the people saying...please, protest by boycotting, maybe my name will move up the Season Ticket Waiting list a bit faster.

 

[sho nuff]

Another question I have...there were many who called Obama "the divider in chief".  it appears that group is now pretty silent.  Was what Trump did, not more divisive than Obama?  If not, why do you believe that?

 

[mr. furley]

Agreed...the outrage over asking for unity is just crazy to me.  "I won't link arms...my hand will be on my heart".  Which is funny when you watch people at games and the percentage that put their hand over their heart was never all that high.

hell, link arms and put your right hand over your heart

can even hold a hat in the left hand, if need be.

 

[jonessed]

Agreed...the outrage over asking for unity is just crazy to me.  "I won't link arms...my hand will be on my heart".  Which is funny when you watch people at games and the percentage that put their hand over their heart was never all that high.

My favorite comments in all those stories are the people saying...please, protest by boycotting, maybe my name will move up the Season Ticket Waiting list a bit faster.

The unity message was completely muddled.  Some teams stayed in the tunnel, some stayed in the locker room, some linked arms, some kneeled, some had a mixture of protests, and most just stood.

The NFL has tried to walk the middle ground on this, but not only was there very little NFL unity even the teams that did unify didn't really define what they were unifying on.  It certainly didn't come across as Kaepernick's original message.

 

[Dickies]

I see what you're saying and the NFL players are peaceful in their demonstrations yes - but highly offensive to a lot of people

there are massive negatives that come with what they're doing - you see that don't you ?

Rosa Parks refusing to sit in the back of the bus was highly offensive to a lot of people too.  

The beauty of Kaepernick's protest is that the same demographic that doesn't think police brutality and racial injustice are problems is the same demographic that is highly offended by kneeling for the anthem.

 

[Stealthycat]

I'm not sure why it matters.  Why can't someone find all three offensive?

and you'd also have to be offended that people have called for Trump's assassination, faux killed him in video's, faux beheaded him etc

lots of things people have done in the last 9 months that have been far lower than I ever thought the US people could go politically 

 

[Stealthycat]

You want to tell everyone that you're offended and that you will boycott them then go right ahead, express your rights man but do not try and tell others what they need to be doing as that is not your right.

i don't think I have ever done that 

what I have said, over and over, is that kneeling is highly disrespectful and offensive doing it on the national stage of a football game is far more negative to a cause than positive

 

[jonessed]

and you'd also have to be offended that people have called for Trump's assassination, faux killed him in video's, faux beheaded him etc

lots of things people have done in the last 9 months that have been far lower than I ever thought the US people could go politically 

It's been a lot longer than 9 months.  It's been about 15 years.

 

[Hawkeye21]

and you'd also have to be offended that people have called for Trump's assassination, faux killed him in video's, faux beheaded him etc

lots of things people have done in the last 9 months that have been far lower than I ever thought the US people could go politically 

I was offended when people did that with Obama and I'm offended when they do it with Trump.  I thought what Kathy Griffin did was unacceptable also.

 

[Old Smiley]

and you'd also have to be offended that people have called for Trump's assassination, faux killed him in video's, faux beheaded him etc

lots of things people have done in the last 9 months that have been far lower than I ever thought the US people could go politically 

So many people on both sides seem to have slept through the Obama admin.

 

[Stealthycat]

Well, Trump doesn't really go by the same set of rules of us anymore not that he's the President.  What Trump did was borderline illegal.

he said wouldn't it be nice to see someone say those things

a fine line between actually saying it and saying he'd like to hear it - nothing in an way, shape of form illegal

was what the MO congresswoman said illegal?

Chappelle-Nadal wrote, “I hope Trump is assassinated!” — a post she promptly deleted

 

[Da Guru]

49er safety Eric Reid says that Kaps message has already been lost.  Too many people with their own agendas now and this was never meant to be "whole team" issues where players feel pressured now.

 

[Hawkeye21]

i don't think I have ever done that 

what I have said, over and over, is that kneeling is highly disrespectful and offensive doing it on the national stage of a football game is far more negative to a cause than positive

And that's your opinion.  At first I though it was a terrible idea but the more I learned about it the more I realized it wasn't that big of a deal.  Doesn't offend me at all and I actually find the entire protest to be done respectfully.  Much better than most protests I see.

 

[Hawkeye21]

he said wouldn't it be nice to see someone say those things

a fine line between actually saying it and saying he'd like to hear it - nothing in an way, shape of form illegal

was what the MO congresswoman said illegal?

Chappelle-Nadal wrote, “I hope Trump is assassinated!” — a post she promptly deleted

What he said was basically a recommendation of what he would like to be seen done.  He told us what he would like to see.  He gave us his opinion.  It was poorly handled and he should not be telling us what he would like to see a private business do like that.

 

[Stealthycat]

The beauty of Kaepernick's protest is that the same demographic that doesn't think police brutality and racial injustice are problems is the same demographic that is highly offended by kneeling for the anthem.

I don't know a single person who's ever said that police issues and injustices aren't problems

Show me one post where people said that, I dare you

 

[Stealthycat]

It's been a lot longer than 9 months.  It's been about 15 years.

I meant the unprecedented attacks on Trump

 

[Henry Ford]

i don't think I have ever done that 

what I have said, over and over, is that kneeling is highly disrespectful and offensive doing it on the national stage of a football game is far more negative to a cause than positive

I, for one, am sick of all the disrespect going on in churches.  Kneeling during prayer in God's own house.  How disrespectful. 

 

[Stealthycat]

I was offended when people did that with Obama and I'm offended when they do it with Trump.  I thought what Kathy Griffin did was unacceptable also.

there was a congress person calling for Obama's assassination ? singers video's shooting a clown Obama? a Kathy Griffin example of beheading Obama ?

it is unprecedented what's happened with the violent protests of the left

 

[Stealthycat]

So many people on both sides seem to have slept through the Obama admin.

no - we have grown into a nation of a short attention span and memory